Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Swish Offline OP
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
There are a ton of pro law enforcement people on here who also happen to be on the right, so it will be interesting to read the responses, if anybody does.

https://thinkprogress.org/far-right-extremists-are-quietly-murdering-police-officers-eda32ddbd0b7/

All Officer Justin Martin wanted to do was help.

Early in the morning on November 2, 2016, the 24-year-old was on patrol in the suburban town of Urbandale, Iowa. He was still fairly new to the town’s police department but, according to colleagues, he loved the local community and serving on the force.


But as Martin drove by the Urbandale High School football stadium, bullets suddenly started to fly. He was struck multiple times and killed in his patrol car. The exact sequence of events has never been definitively established; based on the crime scene, police speculate that Martin had seen a car pulled over as he passed the high school. Believing it to be a stranded driver, he made a U-turn to assist them, and was shot as he did so. Martin didn’t even have time to un-holster his weapon.

“I called him a kid but [Justin] was the kind of man you wanted your kids to turn out to be,” Sergeant Chad Underwood of the Urbandale Police Department told ThinkProgress. “He had been an Eagle Scout and he carried that into his work. I can’t express how much of a fine young man he was,” Underwood said. “He was exceptional.” He added that Martin was the first line of duty death in the department’s 100-year history.

But the nightmare for local law enforcement didn’t end there. Just 20 minutes later, Sergeant Anthony Beminio, 38, of the Des Moines Police Department was shot and killed a mile-and-a-half away. Like Martin, he was ambushed as he sat in his patrol car. Underwood said authorities believe Beminio hadn’t gotten word of Martin’s killing by the time he was shot.

A few hours later, police took 46-year-old Scott Michael Greene into custody for the two murders. Greene was known to police and had a record of far-right agitation, like waving a Confederate flag around at a high school football game or calling a man the N-word and threatening to kill him.

Last May, Greene was sentenced to two life terms for the killings of Officers Beminio and Martin.

Mourners gathered for fallen Urbandale Police Officer Justin Martin after he was shot in killed in an ambush-style attack (Photo by Steve Pope/Getty Images)
MOURNERS GATHERED FOR FALLEN URBANDALE POLICE OFFICER JUSTIN MARTIN AFTER HE WAS SHOT IN KILLED IN AN AMBUSH-STYLE ATTACK (PHOTO BY STEVE POPE/GETTY IMAGES)
The shootings that stunned the quiet Iowa suburb that November represent just two of the nearly three dozen law enforcement officers in the U.S. who have been killed by far-right extremists in the last 10 years alone. Data gathered by ThinkProgress shows that between 2007 and 2017, at least 33 officers were shot by individuals either actively involved with or affiliated with far-right extremism. These include white supremacists, sovereign citizens, and lone wolf attackers.


The data shows that far-right extremists pose a consistent threat to law enforcement, particularly in more rural areas away from the national media spotlight. But even at a time of renewed focus on the far-right, discussion of these killings has been muted.

“People don’t understand that these law enforcement fatalities are perpetuated by people with violent ideology, who’ve had a lot of time to think, plan, and rehearse,” Daryl Johnson, a former senior Homeland Security analyst and current consultant on domestic terrorism, told ThinkProgress. “Traffic stops, evictions — these are spontaneous encounters and law enforcement are caught off guard. [Right-wing extremists] think God’s on their side and police officers are evil representatives of the government.”

Of the 23 separate attacks examined between 2007 and 2017, close to half (10 killings, or 44 percent) were carried out by white supremacists, with anti-government extremists responsible for six, and sovereign citizens three. Eleven officers were killed during police ambushes, nine when they were raiding a house or serving a warrant, and six during a shootout. Florida had by far the most incidents of any individual state — five. Colorado, Louisiana, Utah, and Pennsylvania each had two.

“If you take the number of far-right extremist-related murders and compare to the total number of U.S. murders it’s insignificant,” Mark Pitcavage, an expert on right-wing extremism for the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), told ThinkProgress. “But if you take the far-right murders of law enforcement and compare that like-for-like [with the total number of law enforcement officers killed] it’s a much more substantial minority. They would be a slice of the pie on those murders.”

The self-radicalized, lone wolf-style attacks often seen in modern extremism can make it difficult to differentiate between attacks where individuals are following a particular ideology versus those where an individual may show some clues of extremist sympathies, but may have also been driven by other motivating factors. Even organizations that closely track these killings, like ADL and the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), sometimes disagree whether an attack was an example of extremism or not.


“It may have been that way 20 years ago when people get indoctrinated [in person],” Johnson said. “[But] we’re living in an age now where people get radicalized over the internet, where people are coming to construct their belief system.”

ThinkProgress’ tally also includes four corrections officers, killed in three separate attacks. The nature of the killings and perpetrators — specifically, the fact that the officers were killed by individuals with direct ties to white supremacist prison gangs — merits their inclusion.

Graphics Credit: Diana Ofosu
GRAPHICS CREDIT: DIANA OFOSU
Some of these shootings have made national news, like the 2009 killing of three Pittsburgh police officers by neo-Nazi and white supremacist Richard Poplawski, or the ambush and killing of two Las Vegas police officers by anti-government extremists in 2014. But a significant number of the attacks took place in more rural areas and did not receive the same coverage, such as the 2017 murder of Deputy Mason Moore near Three Forks, Montana.

Last May, Moore attempted to pull over an SUV driven by Lloyd Barrus and his son, Marshall. The pair refused to stop and a high-speed pursuit ensued. After around six minutes, Moore was struck by gunfire. According to The Missoulian, the Barruses then made a U-turn and traveled back towards the stricken deputy to finish him off.

Lloyd Barrus had a history of anti-government views and previously spent 15 years in prison for his role in another high-speed chase in 2000 where he helped bring down a California Highway Patrol helicopter.

Graphics Credit: Diana Ofosu
GRAPHICS CREDIT: DIANA OFOSU
Pitcavage highlighted the Barrus case as an example of the way right-wing extremists can sometimes fly under the radar — even someone like Lloyd Barrus, who had been in prison and had a documented history of violence towards law enforcement. He added that the shooting in Montana also highlights the dangers right-wing extremists pose to officers in more rural areas. There, officers are more likely to be alone and backup is often miles away, making them perfect targets for extremists with a hatred of law enforcement.


“Far-right extremists have an attack-oriented mentality. They believe their beliefs are the true beliefs,” Johnson said. “They’ve prepared their entire lives for encounter with police; they have a plan on how to escape and how to agitate.”

But these officer killings only represent the tip of the iceberg when it comes to documenting violent interactions between far-right extremists and the police, however. From 2009 to 2016, ADL documented 60 incidents in which shootouts between right-wing extremists and law enforcement officers occurred.

One of those involved self-described “Imperial Wizard” of the American White Knights of the KKK, Joseph Harper. In 2016, Harper confronted and shot at deputies in Dooly County, Georgia, while wearing a gas mask and body armor, before committing suicide.


Notably, the ThinkProgress list doesn’t include two of the deadliest attacks on police in recent years: the shooting of three officers in Baton Rouge, Louisiana and five officers in Dallas, Texas, both in 2016. In those cases, both of the perpetrators had ties to obscure black nationalist groups. Both the SPLC and ADL have noted a worrying resurgence in black nationalism in recent years. In early February this year, three Henry County Sheriff’s deputies were shot, one fatally, in Locust Grove, Georgia while confronting a Moorish sovereign citizen — a group which, according to the ADL, “combines longstanding sovereign citizen beliefs and tactics with some newer, primarily Afrocentric notions.”

But, according to Pitcavage, the militant resurgence from black nationalists still doesn’t compare to the dangers law enforcement face from the far-right. “This is most significant amount of black nationalist activity we’ve had since the 1980s, you have to acknowledge it,” Pitcavage said. “But it’s not anywhere close to the far-right. You have to keep it in perspective. It’s fine to act on it but it doesn’t take away from the dangers of right-wing extremism.”

Since President Donald Trump’s election, there has been a well-documented spike in far-right activity, including a significant rise in hate crimes and white supremacist groups openly recruiting on college campuses. White nationalist groups have also shared bomb-making materials online and used leaked military documents to organize online campaigns. One neo-Nazi hate group in the U.S. was recently tied to five murders in eight months, while a January report by the SPLC tied the so-called “alt-right” to 43 deaths since 2014.

“Whenever a group makes itself more organized it becomes more dangerous,” Johnson said. “When you have a disjointed movement, they get distracted. You’re going to have attacks but it’s not going be as sophisticated. The more organized and the more charismatic [a group’s leaders are] it draws more people in.”

The surprise nature of the attacks against law enforcement — whether through ambushes, traffic stops, or serving a warrant — means that preparing to face the threat is a very difficult task. Pitcavage highlighted important steps that could be taken, like providing extra training on extremist threats, or emphasizing de-escalation techniques that might reduce the risk of weapons being drawn. Johnson emphasized the Valor Initiative, by the Bureau of Justice Assistance, which trains officers on how to respond to ambushes or escalating scenarios.

However, given the propensity for conspiracy theories and paranoia to fester among far-right groups, it’s unlikely that the motivating factors behind the attacks can ever be completely dashed out.

“There’s nothing you can do but stay vigilant,” Sgt. Underwood explained. “An unexpected attack is very difficult to train for. It’s forever changed us.”

In wake of Officer Martin’s killing, the Urbandale community rallied around its police department. Nearly 900 officers attended Martin’s funeral, and a local soccer field was named in his honor. Underwood added that, in the days after the shooting, the department had to buy extra fridges and freezers to store the condolence gifts from the local community. Despite the outpouring of support, Martin’s murder still shook Urbandale to its core.

“I don’t think anyone in the police department or the community will forget the second of November, 2016,” he said.

_________

I also find it odd how this is talked about very little compared to other police shootings. But anybody who pays attention to history knows this isn’t new. Right wing groups and ideologies have always been the most violent in this country, and are a bigger national security threat than any Muslim terrorist group.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
4
Legend
Offline
Legend
4
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Originally Posted By: Swish
But anybody who pays attention to history knows...


But anybody who pays attention to history knows...

Using Think Progress as a source for anything is foolish.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,309
B
Legend
Offline
Legend
B
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,309
I think anti-gun libs are behind the school shootings.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




[Linked Image]
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Swish Offline OP
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: Swish
But anybody who pays attention to history knows...


But anybody who pays attention to history knows...

Using Think Progress as a source for anything is foolish.


not really?

you're questioning the source, but you aren't providing your own evidence to disprove what they are saying.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Swish Offline OP
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I think anti-gun libs are behind the school shootings.


stupid comment.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
4
Legend
Offline
Legend
4
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Originally Posted By: Swish
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: Swish
But anybody who pays attention to history knows...


But anybody who pays attention to history knows...

Using Think Progress as a source for anything is foolish.


not really?

you're questioning the source, but you aren't providing your own evidence to disprove what they are saying.


Well I guess if I was to take the story seriously, my first thought would be that I wasn't aware there were so many Black Far-Right extremists.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
Far right extremism is over looked on this board because of some reasons. Every week you hear a story or two about how a Nazi killed his girlfriend and her parents or his gay friend who just came out. But all the police blotters on here will post 5 topics if an illegal alien drives drunk.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Swish Offline OP
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Yep. There’s a reason Why domestic terrorism is the biggest national security threat to the country, and it’s mainly due to right wing extremism.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,135
R
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
R
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,135
you guys are just so precious


You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,756
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,756
I just lump the far right and the far left into the same group.

The idiot group.


I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,563
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,563
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
I just lump the far right and the far left into the same group.

The idiot group.


Amen.... I don tcwre your race, religion, or political belief.... you commit murder you should be in jail the rest of your life or a fast track to the death penalty in those states thwt have it....

Murder is murder... don't care whwt someone's beliefs are....


<><

#gmstrong
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
D
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
D
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
I'm not going to read the article (as of yet) and just come out and say I don't disagree with it.

Most people on the right believe the anti-police sentiment started with Ferguson. It didn't. Prior to that we saw an increase in ant-police sentiment and violence towards LEOs coming from many white groups, primarily Sovereign Citizens. But I wouldn't consider them far Right, and definitely not far Left either. They're really akin to, a radical, extremist, violent Libertarians.

They don't believe Laws apply to them and often present fraudulent documents to support their claims. I've seen incidents ranging from the person claiming to be a "traveler" and therefor not subject to state Motor Vehicle laws all the way up to a planned kidnapping, torture, and execution of a random cop.

To put a high profile face on someone who was stoking those fires was none other than Glenn Beck. He wasn't pushing the Sovereign Citizen philosophy, but he was taking his opportunities to increase the "national paranoia", wearing his stupid sweaters trying to come across as some kind of neo-Revolutionary, or the Missing Founding Father.

I've been critical of BLM for misrepresenting and blowing incidents out of proportion. Glen Beck was about on par with them. It wasn't until Ferguson when he decided to do an about face and try to embrace law enforcement.

Alex Jones is also one of those as well, but I can't really comment too much on him as I haven't spent much time looking him up. The most exposure I've had to him was a 5 minute video where he was drunk and high telling Joe Rogan about the trans-dimensional psychic vampire pedophiles at the top of THE CONSPIRACY.

As to why these kinds of groups aren't covered too much? No idea. They weren't really covered prior to Ferguson to begin with. Maybe it's because no social justice group is going to form and raise awareness? Maybe it's because the media is invested in promoting racial and community divides and is not likely to paint cops as victims? Who knows.


"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton

-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
4
Legend
Offline
Legend
4
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
That right there was interesting.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: Swish
But anybody who pays attention to history knows...


But anybody who pays attention to history knows...

Using Think Progress as a source for anything is foolish.

You hate any source that publishes anything that contradicts your preconceived notion of the world.. so whatever.

Any time something is posted that contradicts you you have one of two ploys.. deflect to "Others do similar stuff" or revert back to "The source is stupid"...

That portion of the right that holds serious racist views, that is gathering as "militias" in compounds in Idaho, and WV, and North Carolina and pretty much in every other state and who view Trump as their ally.. first, there are a lot more of them than you want to admit... and second, they are far more dangerous than the other groups that you rail against on a daily basis... but you pay them problem lip service and then go back to insulting the left..


yebat' Putin
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
4
Legend
Offline
Legend
4
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Nice speech but educated people are fully aware of the farce that is "Think Progress".

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Swish Offline OP
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
glad you chimed in bro. just to be clear, this isn't another LEO thread i post, but more on the relationship between them and those sorts of groups.

i wish i could find the video, but my homeboy had showed me this joint where some far right guy was talking about how the idea of a police force was actually in violation of the constitution.

that sorts of relates to what you was talking about with how they believe laws don't apply to them.

i was wondering if you guys ever have to discuss how to approach those situations? i know the who Waco texas thing kinda put you guys in a bad light compared to those sorts of cults and/or far right organizations.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,797
O
OCD Offline
Legend
Offline
Legend
O
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,797
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Nice speech but educated people are fully aware of the farce that is "Think Progress".


This comes from the guy who quotes Fox News all the time! rofl

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Nice speech but educated people are fully aware of the farce that is "Think Progress".

so then you have no actual facts to dispute what they said.. very well, let's carry on.


yebat' Putin
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,860
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,860
I think if anyone wants to be taken seriously they have to start admitting that both sides have their fair share of nut jobs. In both cases they are the fringe elements of their political party that reflect poorly on the vast majority of the people who support their party.

Until each side is willing to own up to their "crazy uncles", neither side can be taken seriously.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I think if anyone wants to be taken seriously they have to start admitting that both sides have their fair share of nut jobs. In both cases they are the fringe elements of their political party that reflect poorly on the vast majority of the people who support their party.

Until each side is willing to own up to their "crazy uncles", neither side can be taken seriously.

both sides do have their fair share of nut cases.. but at this moment in history, the white supremacists, militias, etc on the right are the more dangerous.


yebat' Putin
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,860
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,860
I would have to agree with you. I've been saying the same thing for years.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
4
Legend
Offline
Legend
4
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Nice speech but educated people are fully aware of the farce that is "Think Progress".

so then you have no actual facts to dispute what they said.. very well, let's carry on.


How about even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,860
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,860
I never actually considered you a blind squirrel before that puts an entirely new perspective on things.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
4
Legend
Offline
Legend
4
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN


both sides do have their fair share of nut cases.. but at this moment in history, the white supremacists, militias, etc on the right are the more dangerous.


So then you have actual facts to back what you say..
Very well, let's carry on.

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
D
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
D
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
Originally Posted By: Swish
glad you chimed in bro. just to be clear, this isn't another LEO thread i post, but more on the relationship between them and those sorts of groups.

i wish i could find the video, but my homeboy had showed me this joint where some far right guy was talking about how the idea of a police force was actually in violation of the constitution.

that sorts of relates to what you was talking about with how they believe laws don't apply to them.

i was wondering if you guys ever have to discuss how to approach those situations? i know the who Waco texas thing kinda put you guys in a bad light compared to those sorts of cults and/or far right organizations.



Waco was a cluster, and that was on the heels of Ruby Ridge. Not saying Koresh wasn't doing anything wrong, but the moments that kicked off the loss of life in each of those were unnecessarily precipitated by law enforcement. Further more, when you find out that all the people responsible for the f ups were promoted, that kind of thing only validates their extremist positions.

As for how to handle those situations, yeah we've had some training on them and get periodic refreshers. First, we try not to get in to a round and round with them. They don't have a leg to stand on (especially in regards to the license thing) so there's point to debate. I think you can already imagine they aren't likely to get a warning lol Ideally if you can get some kind of accurate info from them, at least enough to verify who they are, you can write them a ticket and send them on their way. Worst case you end up seeing those videos where after refusing to comply with a lawful order so many times, they escalated the situation to one where they talked themselves in to getting arrested. That's when you see the window get busted out and them dragged from the car.

Overall though, I think you have to deal with them the same way you should deal with anyone else. Their unpredictable nature and refusal to recognize your authority can make for a potentially more dangerous situation than it should have to be, but I'm talking more in terms of balancing the violation with the level of enforcement. If I can get the information I need from them in order to positively identify them, do I really need to push the issue that they didn't physically hand me a state issued drivers license? Probably not. That's just when you dot hat walk around inspection and ding 'em for everything you can write a ticket for.


As for a larger scale, let's say you have a compound in Michigan. Are they doing anything illegal, or are they just weird? Are there actual victims (say of sexual abuse) in there, or are the laws they broke obscure and things no one really cares about? Are they a threat to the people around them, or do they just stay behind their walls 24/7, 365?


Small scale or larger, I think it's all about using good judgement. A balancing act between what the issue is, the options to resolve that issue, the cost of doing business, and what you are trying to achieve with that particular enforcement action.


"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton

-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Swish Offline OP
Legend
OP Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
ahhhhhhh ok. that makes sense.

thats probably why there aren't major crackdowns in the idaho's and utah's of the world then? as long as they aren't doing anything highly illegal, then the loss of life overrides trying to crack down on something.

i actually get that.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
D
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
D
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I think if anyone wants to be taken seriously they have to start admitting that both sides have their fair share of nut jobs. In both cases they are the fringe elements of their political party that reflect poorly on the vast majority of the people who support their party.

Until each side is willing to own up to their "crazy uncles", neither side can be taken seriously.

both sides do have their fair share of nut cases.. but at this moment in history, the white supremacists, militias, etc on the right are the more dangerous.



That maybe true, but I'd like to see more evidence than just an increase of Klan screen time on the news protesting.

But I will buy in to your supposition to the extent that moods and beliefs in this country swing on a pendulum. Back int eh 60's and 70's it was extremist Leftist groups fomenting violence.


"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton

-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Far-right extremists are quietly murdering police officers

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5