DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Grading the Trades

The first argument didn't work so just change the argument right?

Okay

Does the name Kurt Warner ring a bell?

Are we a better team or a worse team with Hogan or Kessler as the #3 instead of Kizer?

Every team in the NFL that has 3 QB's is developing their 3rd freaking QB because that is what you do when your FO doesn't have the IQ of a houseplant!

The Browns especially seem to average going through 6 QB's a year so your idea of not wasting any time on the 3rd QB isn't an option.

Now go over to the corner and put your dunce cap on and ponder to yourself why it's a ridiculous idea to think that the Browns don't have time to develop their players.

Landry - A+

We got the #1 slot WR in the NFL which was also our greatest area of need on O (yes more than RB, though less than LT if Thomas retires). Oh and we paid almost nothing for him.

Shelton - B+

I liked Shelton a lot, but he never really fit in the 4-3. The trade value we got wasn't much, but people are forgetting that by trading him instead of cutting we save a bunch o' cap space. He wasn't "the guy", GM got SOME value for him. Good move. Think about players in the past who we let go for nada.

Kizer - A-

Same as above, he wasn't "the guy", so move him for some value. In essence we traded a mid 2nd round pick for a late 1st round pick at an area of need. Bueno!

If Randall goes on to be a top 32 CB in the league this is an A++

Taylor - A++++++++

Poor Tyrod Taylor. One of the most disrespected football players in the history of the NFL.

He's too short, He runs too much, he's too safe with the ball. C'mon maaaan!

What has he done as a Pro?

He's missed ONE game in 3 years, rating of 92.5, 62.6% completion, 51TD-16INTS

FIFTY ONE TOUCHDOWNS TO SIXTEEN INTERCEPTIONS. ARE YOU READING THIS?

If you wouldn't kill to have those stats in CLE the last 3 years I don't know how I can take you seriously.

Oh, btw he runs for about 400 yards a year.

Oh, btw he took the team with the longest playoff drought in the NFL to the playoffs.

Oh, btw he made the Pro Bowl.

That's right, we just got a Pro Bowl QB for a 3rd rounder.

I'm so glad we did this trade. We have two 1st rounders and three 2nd rounders. A 3rd rounder probably shouldn't make the team anyways.

Even if Tyrod Taylor gets NEAR those stats, name another 3rd round draft pick that would produce the same? There's only been a couple since '99 like Dak Prescott (4th rd) but those are the exceptions not the rule.

I'm 200% more excited for this upcoming year than I was 3 days ago.

I don't believe Kurt Warner was ever a 3rd string QB. I could be wrong but without googling I believe he was #2 behind Trent Green.

Jacoby Brissett I think was 3rd stringer that ended up having some value? Can't think of any others.

I prefer Kessler to Kizer at the moment. In a few years Kizer might be special, but right now he's not great. Last year he was probably the worst QB in the league (or near it), not his fault, just a bad situation.

Even with that being said though, we'll probably draft 2 QBs ala RG3 + Cousins. One at #1 or 4 overall and then another in the later rounds, maybe even our third 2nd rounder to develop as 3rd string.

So maybe you're both right :-D

Kurt didn't even make third string in his first attempt with Green Bay.

He was beaten out by Farve, Brunell and Ty Detmer. (another 3rd stringer I didn't think of until now)

He went on to bag groceries and then went on to Arena football and NFL Europe. (Jake Delhomme was his backup there)

Then with the Rams he was 3rd string behind Tony Banks and Steve Bono the entire 98 season.

In 99 the Browns could have got him in the expansion draft because he was unprotected. When we passed he became the back-up behind Trent Green.

Green tore his PCL in preseason and the rest is history.

Gotcha, wasn't considering '98, knew about the other stuff. (it's mentioned every 5 minutes on NFL network)

Tom Brady he was actually 4th
Jeff Garcia
Jimmy Garappalo
Kurt Warner
Brian Hoyer
Kelly Holcomb
Jake Delhomme
Marc Bulger
Mark Burnell
Rich Gannon
Brad Johnson
Matt Hasselbeck
Mark Rypien
Stan Humphries
Neil O'Donnell
Joe Montana
Russel Wilson
Warren Moon
Tony Romo
Matt Moore
Shaun Hill
Case Keenum
John Kitna
Mike Tomczak


Those are the people I could think of

All grades

Incomplete.

In terms of the Kizer trade, we'll have to give it a pretty long time ... IMO he does have potential, it's just apparent that it wasn't going to be here

Landry trade....A

TT trade....B+ some worry about the 3rd rounder...how often do you get a starting QB in round 3 that is any good? I also think TT is a bit more than a bridge QB. He could hold the job a long time.

Kizer trade....A Kizer needed to be traded since he was probably going to be cut. Kizer was ruined by the coach last year. He needed a change to maybe become a decent player.

Danny c Dan wasn't a fit anymore. Ogun and Brantley showed up to play last year...time to move on from Danny. We'll see how that 3rd rounder works out next year.

JC...

Laundry trade-A...Best WR to get this year and we got him, we had to give up our later 4th round pick and a 7th in 2019...Thats still an A in my books...People worried about the contract, well you have to pay for very good players.

Tyrod trade-B...Every time I see TT on this board, I keep thinking Tristian Thompson...Alot of QBs are hitting the street in FA..did the Browns know they would have trouble wooing one of them? There's been blurbs about Tyrod being traded or released for the past year now...When I first heard we obtained him I was thinking along the likes of our 4th or 5th round pick. While I do think our 3rd round pick was rather high (as its one pick away from being in the 2nd round, which we own as well) I would rather trade a 3rd for Tyrod anyday versus a 2nd and 3rd for AJ McCarron. I remember a lot of people on the board saying Tyrod blows...I always defended him saying he's light years ahead of Kizer...Hopefully this rings true. He's underrated and underappreciated.

Kizer trade-B...I was never a fan of Kizer, and prior to the draft I told everyone to steer away from him as he is a Logan Thomas clone. The Browns FO must feel the same way. I know Green Bay has weak corners read blurbs about the disappointment in that group months ago. Randall is more of a playmaker for them, definately glade we got him versus Rollins. Saw someone here with the speculation he may move to FS? Heck thats a good idea as we dont have a single FS on our roster and most of us agree we need to add at least two FS's this off-season...Hopefully at worst he is a back-up FS/CB...Kizer I feel at best would be back-up QB. Not a huge fan of swapping picks, as in theory the talent should be better where our picks originated from...then again we draft like crap anyways lol

Shelton trade-D...Now I always stated I wanted Shelton to trim down some since we drafted him, he looked like he started to do so last year. Loved his personality and seemed to be stout against the run, I know he offered nothing pass rush wise...But hey not a lot of 340Lb guys do. Was hoping to have a monster Dline...With beasts in the middle, and goblins rushing the edge. I hate losing a quality player...Who cares he plays 1st and 2nd down...While in fact he improves your rotation and keeps your 3rd down rushing DT fresh...I know we have Brantley, Ogu, and Coley at DT...but I can see those guys being exposed in bigger roles very easily. I know Shelton wasn't a great fit in our scheme, I just feel we would be better with him, than without him...Too bad we didn't give them Kessler and Richardo Louis lol

Don't want to try to grade at this point. This team needed to do something and we all knew/know it.
I'm not going to start hammering on them when what I know is needed begins to happen! We have some serious talent evaluators in house now and apparently they're doing just that and adjusting. I'm thrilled!

. Great post, 1-31 over the past 2 yrs how can anyone complain about what this front office is doing? Nobody on this team should feel secure, nobody!! That’s right, not even Joe T. I will give a grade...A+++++!!!!!

I like all 3 of the trades, but man, I hesitate to put a grade on a WR this soon.

I thought that Davone Bess was going to be a great fit in Cleveland.

How about Dwayne Bowe?

Kenny Britt?

Heck, I even held out hope that Sammy Coates and Kasen Williams would be able to show something.

I am hopeful regarding Landry, and hope we get a longer term deal done with him .... but I also hope that there is an "out", just in case out WR history has not changed.

I only gave one grade and that was on the Front Office and what they’re doing.

I guess that Landry is as close to Bess as any of the other one's you mentioned ... his age and slot position would match up.

I do think Landry is a BETTER version (and hopefully not crazy haha)

Like nearly everyone - my initial reaction to the Shelton trade was "Why". And I am still not clear on the compensation. Danny wasn't a stand out but he plugged up the middle and he gave 100% effort. He's on his rookie contract - and I figured we'd given up something that was a part of a decent front 7 for "not much"....

Since reading more and putting the pieces together - I am on board with the trade. I really did like some of the interior play and penetration we saw from some of our other (even younger) DL. Shelton didn't do anything to shine in GW's scheme. He seems like a poor fit - I don't know what contract he will command if he leaves in a year as a FA. . . . when you dig a little deeper - there's sound reasoning for the trade.

In order of importance:

Taylor - A+. Again my initial thought was 65 was perhaps overpaying. The reality is Taylor should be the best and most consistent QB we have had on the team since 1999. a 3rd rounder for that is peanuts. As a way to go from 0-16 to .... whatever the win record is in 2018 - even if TT is a one year bridge QB, changing the losing culture and having a legit QB orchestrating the O is huge. I like that many think this dude is one of the most underrated QB's in the NFL. . . . we'll soon see. With the OL and WR's that the Browns will line up with on opening day (barring injury and mishap) TT is not going to have any excuses. I don't care if he isn't throwing 80 yard bombs, Landry and Gordon all day with slants and hitches and crossing patterns and nickle and diming our way to 24 points a game will do me and win us many games.

Landry - A. Cheap price for a premier WR. He's a legit slot guy, something that is going to dovetail perfectly with TT and something we have missed tragically for years. With our cap space, resigning him to a big contract doesn't worry me one bit and I hope it happens..... I read someone say not to pay him $15 mill per year .... which is doesn't seem much considering what he's done every year he's played AND considering we had many posters happy to give Pryor - a one year WR at 28 or 29 (?) $12 mill per year.

Randall. B-. I haven't seen him play and can only go off reports. I also read the reports about his off field "issues" - but with Kizer being to all intents and purposes not in the Browns future plans (TT is better today and we'll no doubt draft a QB high in the draft as the heir apparent.) . . . I don't see the downside. Kizer has the *potential* to improve as he's young and has the physicality that you want in today's QB. I question whether he'll ever have it between the ears - and whether the accuracy can be fixed. I wish him luck. He was hard working and professional while in a Browns uniform.

Shelton - C. We didn't lose much, I doubt we're getting much. This reminds me of when we traded Mingo to the Pats. Mingo had been 'ok' but nothing much and we traded him to the Pats where he was 'ok' but nothing much.

He isn't here because he is a 3-4 NT. We run a 4-3 attacking D. In our D, being able to get in the backfield is more important than eating blocks.

I am sure that if we played a 3-4, he would still be here.

Good observation Ball and to the point. He didn't fit GW D so he is not here anymore. That's why he was getting less reps as the year went on. His replacement is already on the roster and we will probably sign a D-linemen in FA or draft one with a later pick. Either way DS shouldn't be too hard to replace.

Yes ... more succinct than I put it.

Landry Trade - A+: Very cheap price to pay for this caliber of WR. I expect a long term deal to get done.

Taylor Trade - A: A quality starting QB for a 3rd round pick. We still have 5 picks in the top 64. Taylor will win games this year. Also, Taylor means no AJ McCarron.

Kizer/Randle Trade - A: Fair or unfair, Kizer had no future with this team. The Browns were always going to bring in a vet to start and draft a QB at #1 or #4. There was no place for Kizer anymore. They traded for a player that can start at a position of desperate need. A player also well know to Wolfe and Highsmith.

Shelton Trade - B-: I like Shelton, he has value to the team, but he was not in the long term plans and was clearly not going to be re-signed. Ogunjobi and Brantley made him expendable. Better to get something in return now then nothing later.

The moves impressed me enough that yesterday, on the first day the Browns began selling season tickets, I bought season tickets. Hopefully, I didn't get snookered.

Source: Browns won’t make any trades today, a rarity. So there’s that.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/972819490810597376






They’re used to taking Sunday’s off

https://twitter.com/AlexSmithSzn/status/972822005006458880

I would have to agree. Now the coaches better pony up some results in wins soonest. We have run out of enough busses to throw people under and send away.

I agree that I feel better after these trades, all of them, even Shelton.

We upgraded 3 areas of need, QB, DB and WR with the best yet to come and it didn't cost us much. On the 4th trade it was addition by subtraction; a player who didn't fit the scheme and who's playing time was diminishing. Plus it opens up a much needed roster spot for free agency signings. People have been wanting change. It's here. Get ready for the ride !!!

I'll play...

Tyrod Taylor - B+ - considering this was probably our best option this could be an A. I think the 3rd rd pick was steep but necessary. I had wondered how Dorsey was going to make us relevant at quarterback with experience. Should have seen this coming. Well done.

Demarious Randall - B - we get a good cover guy who can play CB or FS. This to me either means no Fitzpatrick at 4 or Jamar Taylor is done. And we ended up trading away one of the worst rookie quarterbacks to ever play the game. This was akin to the Bills starting Peterman 15 games. Thank God they had Tyrod.

Danny Shelton - C - I'm indifferent to this deal. I think Shelton was overrated by some, but I think he had value. And I think if he wasn't a good fit and we were considering releasing him then we did fine getting at least something in return.

Jarvis Landry - D - I didn't give it an F because he does improve something. But I think Landry is severely overrated. I believe he has excellent hands and that might be about it. I think we could have done better, but I understand the need to sign the "big name" players for the sake of the franchise. I don't think he will be here for more than 3 years of that.

I don't get it either??

This guy gets it.

Link

So it's a D because of how much money they guy will get paid? On a team that, outside of the QB position, the last 2 years at WR has been nothing short of pathetic ... and we have $100 million in cap space? With FA and a draft still to come where another WR may well be added? All he does is catch the ball well? A skill that we just have not had on the team ....... I tend to think everything is relative - the Browns weren't a choice destination for many FA's before Friday. I think acquiring good talent that makes you better by a quantum leap is good - and Landry is better than Anything we've had for at LEAST 2 seasons and you could argue that he's better than anything we have had at WR for a long long time. I simply don't see a down side to this.

No-one is saying Landry is the missing piece that takes us to the S.B .... I think people are excited coz he's a huge, huge upgrade and gives us a "great" slot receiver.

Lmao.

Catch, tackle, punt huh?

Explain 220 of 400 catches for 1st downs.

You read too much.

Look at those numbers again.

OVER HALF of his catches are FIRST DOWNS.

That's INSANE

You must also really like Seth DeValve. His was 65%

THAT's insane.

Once again, I stated he makes the team better, but I think there were better options to be had. The "big name" is what was important here. He's proven and yes, we have the money to spend.

Yes, it's not my money so what do I care if we overspend for players. We probably will but haven't yet signed Landry to multi-year deal.

Maybe this was a necessary move but that doesn't mean it was a great move. I believe there are better and cheaper options than Landry. I think we very well could wind up disappointed in him. But hey, let him prove me wrong.

Out of curiosity - who?

Not quite sure where the thinking that 53% of completed passes are 1st downs is INSANE. I honestly don't know the league average if there is such a stat, but I'd guess 53% is either average or below, not INSANE.

Marquise Lee was 71%.
Adam Theilen was 65%.
Travis Benjamin was 58%.

Albert Wilson, another FA, who was an undrafted FA Dorsey brought in was 76%.

Heck, our own slot, Rashard Higgins was 48%. So we just paid 16 million to go up 5%! Landry is a STUD! Yeesh.


Landry also ranked #1 in receptions, but ranked 16th in first down catches on third down. Man, that is AWFUL especially considering that's what he's supposed to do best and that's why we are paying him the big bucks.

Marquise Lee, Jordan Matthews, Albert Wilson, Eric Decker...

Oh wow. I'm sorry I asked. Never mind.