DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft The case for Saquon Barkley part 2

Let's refresh our talking points since we are having good conversation on this thread.

Why we should take Bark at #1

1. He is the BPA in the draft hands down.

2. He would greatly improve both our running game and our passing game.

3. He is an amazing receiver.

4. His running style is one that protects his body so he should have a 10 year career.

5. There is a major drop off in talent between him and the next available talent. When you watch the hips and ankles its very obvious to me at least.

6. While most think we should draft a QB there is not enough difference in the QBs to make up for what we lose if we miss out on the BPA. If we take Saquan at #1 we will still get a very good franchise QB at #4. If we take a QB at #1 its very probable that we will not land Saquan at #4 since both the Giants and Colts really like him.

7. At the end of the day our offense is way better off with Saquan and whatever QB is left than just having a QB and no Saquan. This draft needs to be a priority at offense and not defence because we need to score points to win.


Why we should not take Bark at #1

1. No matter what you have to take a QB at #1 because we need one. Forget BPA.

2. Running backs are a dime a dozen and we can get one later in the draft. You should never take a HB in the top 10.

3. You have to take the QB you want and not let others choose it for you even if they are all the same.

4. We would rather draft a QB at 1 and either Chubbs or Fitz at 4.

5. We think Saquan is overrated and gets tackled for a loss too often.

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I think that is all the main talking points. I apologize if I left anyone out by accident. Feel free to continue and add more to the discussion.

So you're saying u want bark?

Dawg bark or tree bark?

Well of course lamp =) I figured the first post should just bring up the things we talked about in the other thread though.

I want Saquan at #1 and a QB at #2 after a trade up. I don't think it would cost that much to move up. I am fine with whatever QB we would get at 3 or 4 too.

MY dream draft is Saquan at 1 and Rosen at 2, 3, or 4. Saquan would extend Rosen's career by keeping the pressure off of him so much and gives him a reliable target other than Landry if the needs to dump the ball FAST.

Dream draft would be Barkley at #1 and Mayfield at #4! I don't get the love affair for Rosen. Mayfield is the much better competitor IMHO and doesn't need to be wrapped in cotton balls because he comes with his own balls.

I prefer Rosen because of his methodical style of play and his faster decision making. Both him and Mayfield can be deadly accurate in short to medium passes. Mason is my favorite if we are going to use a vertical system. With Tyrod as our Bridge though I don't seem them going the way of the deep ball and perhaps Haley is switching to something different so I just don't know what they plan to build now.

This morning I thought. Saquan Barkley reminds me too much of Trent Richardson. And also, that Baker Mayfield reminds me too much of Ryan Tannehill. And thought also that "here we go again."
Of course all this is meaningless.

Are you kidding me. That has to be the worst comparisons I have ever seen.

Barkley IS NOTHING like Richardson and Mayfield IS NOTHING like Tannehill.

I can promise you Saquan is nothing like Richardson. When Saquan sees daylight he is off like a rocket to it instantly. He also has WAY more field vision. Saquan freaks me out with the way he sees things develop and then plans his cuts and jukes like its just breathing air.

I didn't present a case in that first post. I just posted the arguments that had been made in the previous thread. I did that just so everyone could keep strait what people were arguing not to persuade one way or the other.

I think it's fair to say that those that want Saquan are a bit more passionate and thinking outside the box. Those against it have the old traditional way of thinking about it ingrained into them.

Just to be fair, in a normal draft I would be one of those same voices on the con side. Normally there is just one QB or at best 2 QBs that are the obvious choice for example goff and wentz. In those normal kind of drafts you absolutely HAVE to take a QB. I was pretty angry that we passed on Wentz when he literally fell into our lap because I really liked him more than Goff. At the same time I saw the other side where they were scared to give up that much draft capital on a guy with so little play time from a small school. I could understand both sides.

It's why I am certainly not hostile towards anyone who can only think of drafting a QB. It's a normal and safe way to think to be sure.

This draft is just a special case. I seriously doubt there is another draft for QBs this good in another 30 years at best. I mean it's not that you have a bunch of crap at QB and they all suck. It's the opposite in fact. We have 4 really good QBs where we can argue they are the greatest and all be right at the same time. Then you have another 2 QBs after that who are a bit rough right now but have the potential to surpass the first four. It's mind boggling to me how good this QB class is. Then you have another 2 QBs even after that who might even become franchise QBs themselves if given a few years to sit and learn and get up to NFL speed.

I gave up on trying to figure out who is the best QB in this draft. I think it will matter most where they are drafted on whether they have success or not. I think all 8 of the QBs I like could end up being starters on a team. The more film I watch the more impressed I get with this class of QBs.

It's only in this unique class of QBs that I think it's OK to take Saquan at 1 and a QB at 4. I say that because I KNOW we will get a good starting QB at #4. I also know it will be easier to trade up from 4 to 2 to grab a QB than it would be for Saquan because the giants seem like they want to push for that last 1 or two tries at a superbowl with Eli rather than looking past him for the long term. If Saquan is off the board then they will more likely trade down IMHO.

Still even if we don't move up to 2 there will still be 2 of the four good QBs left. The only irreplaceable talent in this draft is Saquan. He is the BPA and will be a big key to our offense. Even Tyrod can win with Saquan to run and catch with. You just don't give up a chance on that kind of rare talent.

Very justifiable argument for Barkley at 1 and QB at 4.

I want the QB we like the BEST.

I'm going;

Darnold at 1
Minkah-Fitzpatrick at 4
Isaiah Oliver at 33
Keryon Johnson at 35

You say Barkley is hands down the best player in the draft. I don't know that I would necessarily agree. An argument could be made for Chubb. In which case Barkley might still be the best player in the draft but not the hands down best. Some people might even argue that Fitz is the best. And while I wouldn't agree, that they could make the argument again says that Barkley is not the "hands down" best player.

Speaking of hands down best player. It was pretty clear that last year that guy was Myles Garret who we picked at #1. Looking back, Would you trade Garret for Watson or Mahomes knowing what we know now about how they played?

The flip side....

Everyone says you can get a lesser but good RB later.

But there is no guarantee. You have to hope one of the other RB is still there.

Everyone says this is a good RB group but IF they are good...then they could also get drafted earlier leaving the Browns in a position reach for a RB.

This is all moot really.

IF they love one QB above of all others then they'll take them at 1.

If they have the QB graded evenly then they take Saquan and get a QB at 4.

Simple.

I wouldn't. Garrett is a stud who is going to be a franchise centrepiece. I don't think Watson looks as good in Cleveland, and I have doubts he'll continue that form. Mahomes hasn't really shown anything.

Relating this back to Barkley - Running back is a lot easier to fill than pass rush.

If they have all the quarterbacks graded evenly, then they need to keep grading until one comes out ahead of the pack. Put in the hard work and come up with your answer.

That's what making a tough decision is about.

This is our chance to finally fix our quarterback woes. Do not let other teams dictate your QB. Don't even allow the possibility that we get stuck with our third choice.


QB at number 1 no matter what. Anything to the contrary makes absolutely no sense at all.

If the scouting dept does all their grades and evals and the QBs come out as equal....what do you tell them?

Hey guys; I want you guys to come up with 1 QB because you want to take a QB with the #1 pick no matter what

Making a tough decision isn't about artificially ginning up a grade IF that isnt what their grades indicate.

Lol at your last sentence:

"Anything to the contrary makes absolutely no sense at all."

I guess thats the nature of discussion in this forum, lol.

That's what making tough decisions is about. If our scouting department has the top three quarterbacks graded the same, then they either need to continue grading, or we need to have a big discussion and come up to a consensus.

Because, that's what you're saying. Three quarterbacks, all graded the same. That's the easy way out. Discuss, come up with who you think is the best, pick that guy.



I just can't believe folks on here after losing as much as we have. Two winning seasons since returning to the league. Never above 10-6. And people on here think it is okay to risk getting their third choice of QB. Because that's what can happen.

The Giants easily could select a QB or trade down. The Colts easily could select a QB or trade down.


There's no position in the NFL more important. Not even close. Would a Steelers, Chargers, or Giants fan trade any of their starting QBs in their prime for Adrian Peterson or Todd Gurley? I think not. Would a Falcons fan trade Matt Ryan in his prime for Ezekiel Elliot. I seriously doubt it.


Is there any running back worth Jared Goff or Carson Wentz? Nope. There isn't.

The Rams would ship out Gurley in a heartbeat if the question is him or Goff.


Barkley looks good. Looks great. But we haven't solved our quarterback problem yet, and there's some very good options. Evaluate them, decide which one is the best, and pick him. That's what the FO gets paid to do. Make the correct decision, no matter how difficult it may be

You're making a canned argument though; and assuming that i disagree with your views in the last post.

My point is simple. IF the scouting dept grades the QBs as equal then they can take Saquan.

If they have 1 QB rated higher they take that QB.

All you are doing is dismissing the possibility that the QBs could have equal grades.

My guess is that we take Barkley #1 overall... Then go with Josh Allen at 4 or move up to 3 to nab him..

You entire argument is that a team can draft at 2 and 3 a qb. Yet you fail to realize we have sufficient ammo to move up to 2 and 3 if we want too.

I draft SB at 1, see what NY does, and then if need be move up to 3 to take our guy. JMO

1 and 4 hell with it, I go Chub and Minkah Fitz. Build me a defense and if i can Get Jackson or Rudolph by trading into back end of the first I go for it.

I dont know if drafting any of these QBs is gonna give us a franchise QB but I believe we can build a championship caliber defense and still get our franchise RB in Guice and probably have the same chance of getting our franchise QB with Rudolph or Jackson.

I don't know why your having trouble understanding me. The first post of this thread was not biased at all. It was just a statement of the arguments of the previous thread. If I left out an argument then please correct me because I promise I didn't leave anything out on purpose.

If your asking if I am biased separate from the opening post then yes of course I am. Between QBs, WRs, and HB I have spent over a hundred hours on watching film and analyzing it till my head could split from it and God knows how many more hours I will put into it yet. I do it for my own enjoyment and to sate my curiosity. As you know I am pretty confident in my opinions even if I am too lazy to always explain why I have them.

My opinion is not based on what dorsey will or wont do but on what he SHOULD do. I don't claim to have any control over anything. This is just meant to be about we would each do.

Taking Saquan at #1 would be thinking outside the box. Every single person knows he is the BPA. Some might argue for chubbs or fitz and they are certainly great players but they are not at the level Saquan is. Those opposed to taking Saquan just spout the same mantra that made us waste so many picks on QBs we knew were no good but felt obligated to pick anyways just to say we took one. It almost never works out though. When you reach for players out of need instead of taking the BPA you always end up with mediocre players where you would have got stars instead. The Browns past drafts should be enough of a lesson in that to last a lifetime.

Like I said, I don't hold it against anyone on who they like or don't like. This is a pretty unique draft though so I hope our GM uses it to his advantage by taking Saquan at 1 and moving up to take Rosen at 2. We could end up with the best offense in the NFL bar none with just those two picks alone and what we have already done this offseason. Even if they were the only picks we made this entire draft it would be the best draft we have ever had.

White is an interesting fellow. He has a bit of the Hero Syndrome but he has some nice skills. I have him as one of the 8 QBs I like in this draft.

hehe your hitting my soft spot with mason ^^ lord knows I would love to have him.

If we traded back from one to say 3 I could very well see that scenario playing out. I certainly respect the idea of building a great defense and those two would certainly make our defense dominant. If going that route though I would rather it be Chubbs and Vea so we have a complete d-line. Chances are we could trade back from 4 and still get Vea. Our FS spot might be taken care of in a few days with honey badger.

That being said, I don't want to be haunted by missing out on the next Barry Sanders. Saquan really reminds me of him a lot the way he runs except he looks smoother and more effortless doing it than Barry did. He is just scarry good.

Ive thought he could be the guy who outside of the top names might surprise everyone if given some time. Big, tough kid. I'd gamble.

That's a fair question. I would say that I would still take Garrett. That trade from 12 is what landed us a pick at #4 so I don't regret it either. We made bank on that trade and this year we will land us a good QB so I think it worked out great for us. Unless they really go crazy and don't take a QB at 1 OR 4. The fans might lynch mob them if they do that though. If we end up with Saquan it will be completely because of that trade. So yeah no regrets at all.

Well he would have a great situation behind Tyrod that is for sure. I would probably move back into the first for Mason or Lamar first before I settled on him though but we could always draft 2 QBs to play it safe.

I would not have taken Mahomes #1 but would have loved him with our 2nd first. I didnt like Watson because I didnt think he could ever stay healthy. Similar with RG3, just takes to many big hits and will continue to be an epic player and then finish the season on IR until he is out of the league.

I thought Mason Rudolph was the best QB the last 2 years. He just happens to be in a class with some big arms and he is getting overshadowed. I think he ends up drafted much higher than many think however,

The original observation is a good one. The tip-top of the draft is MUCH more crowded this year than last. I'd argue that Trubisky is the one I'd use in this hypothetical... and my response wouldn't change from last year (you take Garrett without a second thought).

I'm not sure Barkley is the best in the draft. I think he's riding the hype wave coming out of the combine. That said, if Haley is driving the Barkley hype-train, and with the moves we've made (Taylor and that CB/FS dude from GB), I could be ok with taking Barkley at 1 and then our QB of the future at 4. If Dorsey doesn't want Darnold or Rosen, but instead wants Allen or Rudolph, and those guys can be had at 4... then I'm fine with that.

I think will all have a much better idea about this draft and how it will go over the course of the next few days.

But I think everyone needs to think this thing through, whats the one thing we must do in this draft?

Fun kicking though !

Adam Schefter and Chris Mortensen on a podcast:

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=22733993

Listen to it. They seem to know something about who will be the #1 pick (it's not going to be a running back).