DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus School walkouts to protest gun violence and laws.

There are too many Americans who have received most of their knowledge and understanding of the world from TV shows, movies and related media.

For instance the people who think we should incur great cost and sacrifice liberty to prevent "school shootings".

Because there's sensational coverage of these rare events. And politicians are along for the ride.

Meanwhile, these same people don't give a rat's ass about the 2,000 children under the age of 16 who are killed EVERY YEAR in traffic accidents in the U.S.

That's boring.

I don't really know what it might look like.

What I do know is this: I've been around teachers my entire life. I know/have known hundreds over the years, and I'm hard-pressed to name even a half-dozen who might be decent candidates for 'strap-on tools.'

I reflexively push back against armed teachers simply because I've known so many over the years. I'm not sure I could find even 4 or 5 who'd even want the responsibility of carrying a lethal weapon on a school campus.

I assume that some sort of solution is out there, and just hasn't been hit upon yet. Armed teachers seems like a potential 5 day per week liability on the offhand chance that a disgruntled (ex) student decides that an "AK Spraydown" is a viable coping mechanism.


.02

Oh I care. If I had my way driving would be much more of a privilege. The roads are full of idiots. Just like guns would be much more of a privilege, there are too many idiots with guns. I had a young late teens/early twenties guy pull a gun on me in a parking lot once over a parking space. He cut in front of me and took it and I called him an ass. He comes out with a gun... My fault? Maybe but not bad enough to pull a gun on somebody.

Thankfully I didn't have a gun on me because there might have been more to it at that point. I backed down, then let mall security handle him. Saw his car being towed later so I assume he was a punk with them too.

Oh, it was a big gold desert eagle looking gun too, probably would have broke his wrist to shoot it. I think he had little man syndrome.

I respectfully disagree... and here's why:

1. When I was a kid, seat belts were optional in cars at the date of purchase. They became standard equipment before My Pops bought the second car I ever rode in.
2. Lap belts gave way to 3-point harnesses because 3-points saved more lives.
3. Air bags are now standard equipment on all vehicles sold in America.
4. Sobriety checkpoints became a thing in the 80's/90's because alcohol-related fatalities became unacceptable.
NTSB produced guidelines governing how long truck drivers could remain on the road.
5. Distracted diving laws are now being enforced like never before.

The very reason we've seen these developments/advancements is precisely due to people giving a damn. The fact that 2K still die is not the same thing as people not caring.

_____________________

The possibility exists that I may have misinterpreted what your point was, in which case I will await further clarification.

With power comes responsibility some people will abuse power you can't punish everyone else who respects it because of that "idiot".

I don't remember when seat belts became standard equipment.
Yup.

Yup. (although, having many family members in the trucking business, they think the trucking laws are a bit harsh. But, that is not something I'm educated on enough to go much further.
Yes, we've had developments and research, and all that. And we still see the same exact things happen now as we did back when.


One thing we didn't do was punish the law abiders when someone else broke the law.

In other words, if you are driving without your seatbelt on, or driving drunk, and you get caught, it's not like I have to pay your penalty. YOU pay it. You kill someone? YOU pay the penalty.

It seems though, with guns, they are looking to punish the law abiders as well as the law breakers.

What has my gun done to make be a felon just by owing it, anymore than what has my vehicle done to make me a felon just because you (someone) drove drunk and killed other/s?

Ah, I know. People break laws, but somehow, it's a feel good to take to task the law abiders and make them possible felons just because.

TRust me Clem, I'm not harping on YOU, per se.

but, murder is illegal. Heck, even in self defense, you're going to get arrested until the facts can be sorted out. Selling drugs is illegal. Rape is illegal. Robbing a bank is illegal. Etc.

In none of those situations do we attempt to incriminate the law abiding citizens, other than in the gun situation. Ban Assault rifles - when there is absolutely no definition of 'assault rifle'?

Heck, ban cars that can exceed the speed limit, as there is no need for anyone to speed. Other than cops, right?

I know I'm getting .....what's the word? Or phrase? Can't come up with it.

But in no other situation that I can currently think of do we ban or criminalize legal items and make criminals out of law abiding citizens, simply because they own a certain type of gun.


Hey let's go this route. Your big mean dog attacks some innocent kid walking on the sidewalk. Should my little puppy be banned?

Hey, I respect you. That's why I'm posing these questions to you. If I didn't respect you, I'd do what I do with some posters on here: Ignore you.

j/c:

Arming teachers. Gun laws. Blah, blah, blah.

Meanwhile, the biggest problems and issues in our regards to violence in our schools is being ignored because it's too troubling and controversial for folks to demand a change.

Continue

Wow.



I'm going to need some time to figure out how to get from my response to rocky...
...to where you need me to go to give answers to your questions.

Because right now, it seems like I should be having a completely different conver with you than the one I was having with rocky.

That lack of understanding may be on me, for all I know. I did log into this forum tonight after our annual St. P D dinner party- and the Tullamore Dew was flowing.

So... how about I try to re-read your post tomorrow, and give you the consideration you've earned?

Gave you a like because tullamore dew

Tullamore Dew is a happy-making thing.

Thanks, My Dawg.

Oh, I'm sure the lack of understanding is on my part.

I guarantee I didn't spell it out exactly. Take some liberties at my expense.

I do believe, over all, not counting rocky's previous statements, that .....well, I believe what I said warrants thought, let's put it that way.

How many kids you see die in a school fire? Not since 1958 has there been any real problems with school fires. Plus you can have classrooms empty into a central courtyard area. Meanwhile those classrooms form an outer wall that encircles a main central building with the big courtyard surrounding it. That lets all rooms open into a wide open area with many exits from classrooms. It's not that hard to have a large entrance that is fireproof and always easy for the kids to get out. At worst you could have a north and south entrance.

These school design where there so many ways in and out are just asking for disaster because you can even control who goes in and out.

Really?
Why couldn't you just take my post at face value...

...AND GIVE ME THE ..... TIME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT TF YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT?

I imagine that this is what dudes are talking about when they describe arguments with their wives. I have to assume it, because I don't have this stuff with my wife.

What part of "I need time" was unclear to you? Why did you take this second step of escalation?

I am not getting this. At all.

I'm going to bed.
Maybe this will all make more sense to me in the morning.

Anyhow, I have fished and hunted with many many teachers in my lifetime. Most were very good with their guns and with safety.

Clem, chill.

You said

And I said:



That wasn't a slam on you in ANY way, shape or form. I was acknowledging that I probably didn't make my point very well.

Thank you for clarifying that for me.
I read your response as snark, and that was my mistake.

Apologies are in order.
Sorry about that.

Which has zero to do with an active shooter situation in a public school.

Foolish.

People who are familiar with guns and killing can more easily be trained for security.

Sissy half men who pee at the site of a gun are not easily trained to even protect themselves.

On that note. "The only way to stop a bad guy with drugs is with a good guy with drugs."

Bring it on Tex!

Actually if they impeach TRUMP and arrest all the NRA leaders that would stop ALL gun violence in the whole wide world .....aint that so Libbers.

Why do you insist on playing the fool? Just because someone is a good shot or safe with guns in NO WAY prepares them for an active shooter situation.

You go ahead and puff your chest like you're somebody. People who read your drivel know your shtick.

Why do you foolishly write more into the comments of others than actually exists?

I said someone who is familiar with guns and killing is more easily trained for security.

I did not say hunting makes you ready to return fire.

Play your games with someone else already.

When all else fails claim denial.

OK, I'm back to take another bite at this apple.
And again... sorry for misinterpreting your intent last night.

But first, to clarify my point: rockyhill was asserting that 2,000 kids killed in traffic accidents each year was somehow less newsworthy than the kids killed by gunfire. My response to him was to explain that, although traffic fatalities still occur, many of the root causes of traffic deaths have been addressed in-depth over the years... and many of those advancements came a sa direct response to news of traffic fatalities in the past. The inference being: it's not as 'newsy' as it once was because we've acted on that news= and made things better. Not perfect- but certainly better.

Now, on to your response to me.
It would seem that you've used my post to rocky as a jumping-off place for a separate point you'd like to make. I can roll with that. Sounds to me as if you're concerned about gun ownership criminalizing you and your reputation. To be honest, I'm having a hard time making that jump with you. I'm unaware of any initiatives that would end in criminal charges being brought against you for owning the guns that you do.
e
And before I screw myself a second time in as many days by misinterpreting your thoughts ...I need you to define what you meant by the word 'punish,' when you wrote:



When I better understand where you are coming from, I might have a decent, worthy answer for you.

Thanks,
talk soon

Sorry sir, I will take full blame for the issue.

Rocky said what he said. You made your 5 points/listed 5 points.

You are 100% correct that I came at it from a different perspective - a gun perspective.

I was attempting - and failed - to say ' in each of your scenarios, we don't blame the law abiders for the law breakers.' (but I was serious when I said I do not remember cars not having seatbelts. I definitely remember seat belts not being used - but that is beside the point)

I polluted you and rocky's convo with a perspective from a gun owner, when guns, in THAT discussion, wasn't the topic. Even though the thread was about guns.

Mea Culpa. My bad. My apologies.

Might want to read Ohio SB 260 though.?

What really bugged me today though, was the way you went off on me. As I stated, I could/can/did understand your being miffed at my post. I've already apologized for that.

(and truthfully, I didn't care for the G.D. you used, but I suppose that's just me)

Hats off Arch and Clem! Actual dialogue.

Yeah... it was definitely the Tullamore Dew.

You're justified in being bugged. Rightfully so. I totally misread the original response and then 'doubled-down' on your mea culpa, thinking it was snark. That's 100% on me. Now, I have to spend some time addressing why I'd even assume that your posts had the tone I assigned to them that night.

Please excuse me for awhile.
I need to stare into the mirror and do a 'face check.'

The protester doesn't need to know the solution to a problem in order to recognize that there is a problem. That's the difference between liberals and conservatives. Liberals recognize that there is a problem. Conservatives want to bury their head in the sand and donate more money to the NRA.

Yea Yea, now tell me how these millions of kids organized this protest all around America themselves.

It didn't take long for the left in the United States to use the tragedy to advance its anti-Trump, anti-America, anti-gun agenda.

Which part of not wanting kids shot at school is anti-America?

Meanwhile in Maryland.... another school shooter today as more are hurt or dead. All while this administration and their cronies and the NRA including the Trump supporters here degrade student protesters who protest for their lives and how easy it is for other students to get their hands on an AR and ammo to bring into their school to do them harm.

Once again, very sad.

Tell it to DC, he likes to discuss these failings of society.
Perhaps he will want to build sanatoriums for the insane.

Nah... just renovate and re-open all the facilities that closed down after St. Ron of Raygun put them all out on the streets.

At least he discusses it and doesn't degrade an entire generation of school shooting victims here.

The shooter injured 2 before being killed by an armed security guard at the school. (A school where my uncle used to teach and 2 of my cousins attended)

I'm glad there was a guard there to prevent further damage. I'm glad the shooter is dead..

Doesn't change my opinion that we still need to be looking for better long term fixes than just shooting back...

Problem solved, numbers of victims limited. Good job by the guard.

NOW we discuss how to prevent the gun from getting into the school.

Then the solutions to society's problems can be discussed.

Instead of looking at the positive of this shooting which was the security guard SAVED LIVES because he was armed and trained. There is as mentioned still work that needs to be done in keeping the nuts with weapons from going on school grounds.

J/C

Students turn voilent at "anti violence" protest