DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Jets trade for Colts No. 3 overall pick in 2018 NFL Draft

I think Tom Heckert may disagree....

He had 1 more win than the Browns last year.

I don't see how they'd make a trade to #3 for a non-QB if they have no idea if he'll even be there. And if they have their eye on 3 non-QBs, why wouldn't they just wait at #6 and see which one falls to them?

It's the same logic trading up for a non-non-QB surely? You cannot guarantee what happens picks 1 & 2. I'm not saying anything is concrete. Bridgewater is a good QB, maybe he returns as good or not. Maybe they are eyeing up BPA including QB? I think Minkah is a real fit and would pair up really well with Adams. Chubb is also a likely candidate; as would Barkley be. We could take any of those at 4 so maybe they wanted to jump us thinking we are going QB @ 1? If they wanted their QB they'd have jumped to 2 or 1 surely but extending your logic they are settling on the 3rd QB? Who would likely have been there at 4? Maybe or not... All supposition at this stage.

1. That was a terrible trade.
2. It wasn't as much as the Jets traded.

One would assume that the Jets have three QBs rated highly. They will be getting one of those three QBs.

Side note, every media person in the know is saying the Jets traded up for a QB.

No, sorry, it's just not. QB's are on a completely different level. Running-backs used to be, but I'm not sure they're there anymore. Has a team every traded anything close to what the Jets just did for a non-QB/RB? I can't think of anything. And even if somebody did, it almost surely was on Draft Day, when they knew exactly who they were getting with the pick they were making.

And Jets management would get crucified if they took Chubb or Fitzpatrick with the third. Not only would they hear a chorus of, "You gave up THAT for a non-QB??", they would also have to explain why they traded up up so early when there was no guarantee that "their guy" would be there. They could either spin it 2-ways, one, being that they wanted the top 2-QBs and/or Chubb/Mink, and that those guys were ranked in the top 3. But the media (especially the New York media), would call them out for trying to land one of the top two QBs and whiffing badly. The other thing they could do would be to say they wanted one of the three non-QBs as they thought they were the highest ranked players on the board. Except that one of those three will almost certainly land at #6, and they will get slaughtered for trading up so much for a chance on a guy they could of had at 6 for free anyway.

Them grabbing Barkley wouldn't be as bad though, because at least there is some precedent for trading up big to get running-backs. But it would still be bad.

Pick 3 was always going to be a QB or Chubs. Now we know it's a QB. No big deal.

Pick 2 was and is the only tricky pick. Giants will either take Saquan to take winning NOW seriously or they will sacrifice winning now to have a QB for their future and trod out Eli for show another season. Most people believe they want to give Eli the best chance to win now and will take Saquan if they are given a chance. If they trade out then whoever moves up is after a QB.

If Browns take a QB at #1 they will not get to draft Saquan unless they move up to #2. Then we either take CHubbs or a CB. We are not drafting Fitz regardless.

If Browns draft Saquan at #1 then we will still draft a very good QB at #4 because only 2 QBs will be gone at #4. If we end up with Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield no one on this forum is going to cry about it except me because I want Mason =P The point is it doesn't matter which one we get because either way we will have our franchise QB and the most talent player in the draft. You just can't lose if you draft Saquan at #1.

I still hope we take Saquan at #1 and a QB at #2. It's time we get the best and first choice on everything for once! That is JMHO =)

the chances of QB going 1,2,3 is very high right now IMO ... the Giants basically showed their hand when they didn't accept the NYJ trade

the question left for me: does the 4th pick turn into another QB or do we reject any trade down

Like someone mentioned earlier, I think the only team we'd trade with is Denver. We would still get the pick we want as well as another asset.

We can get the best QB and the best non QB in the draft. Looking pretty sweet right about now.

Agreed

as long as we pick the right ones!

And that's rather subjective ! LOL

I have this question too. Firstly, I was very high on Minkah and very acceptable to Barkley, but with Randall and Hyde signing - I'm less high on both of them. Seeing what Jets gave to get into the top 5, I'm wondering if we're in store for a good position to cash in on someone looking to grab one of the remaining notable QBs here.

As stated, Denver makes a lot of sense. We could end up getting the players we want anyway with additional capital.

This situation is very intriguing.

we will have our choice at Barkley, Chubb, Minkah, Nelson, Ward (which I think is too high at 4 to take).

We will more than than likely leave this draft with the best Qb, and possibly the best player in the draft at 4.

Yeah, I don't disagree. We could still have our stab at those mentioned players, but gain an additional draft pick(s) too. Pastor said it, Denver, Buffalo and Arizona are pretty QB needing teams, and maybe will want in whoever is left over at the QB spot.

Denver for example, one spot away, could assure we get a little something extra in draft capital plus a stab at virtually all those players. I'm very convinced QBs are going 1,2,3 of this draft.

Pastor I would trade with Denver because we only move down 1 spot and can still get an impact player at #5. Buffalo and Arizona are too far down for my liking. I'd rather see us take a top player than move down that far.

Agreed that QBs will go 1, 2, 3:

- The Browns will take their top-rated QB (my money is on Darnold.)

- #2 will be a QB. The question is whether the Giants make the pick (Rosen?) or whether they trade down with the Bills (how much are they willing to pay?) or some other team. Highly unlikely the Giants will move down a spot and give the Jets their guy though...

- Jets take QB at 3.

I think the Giants should just stay put and take their QB. Eli Manning is 37 and in obvious decline. Barkley isn't going to turn them into contenders and then when it gets obvious that Manning is done, then what? Where do they get their QB?

That said, if they don't want to draft Eli's eventual replacement, the offers will be too good to pass up for Barkley, Chubb, or any other non-QB in the draft.

In one of these threads I argued that the Browns, at #4, should be willing to accept a trade from the Bills for #12, #22, and their 2019 first round pick. Whether or not they actually get that offer for #4 remains to be seen (I doubt it) but I disagree with the idea that any non-QB prospect in this draft is worth more than 3 first round picks. And here's the thing, the Giants would actually ask for more than this for #2, probably quite a bit more. Passing up that kind of value for a RB just doesn't make sense.

Possibly interesting dynamic: don't expect the Giants to do anything to help the Jets. To give some context, Jets fans by and large HATE the Patriots. There happen to have been two recent Super Bowls between the Patriots and Giants. I remember going onto a Jets board before that second Super Bowl, and there were a lot of Jets fans who actually preferred the Patriots to win!

This was not a unanimous consensus mind you, but there were quite a few of them. The idea was that no matter how much they hated the Patriots, they couldn't stand the idea of their cross-town rivals, a team that they share a stadium with, winning the Super Bowl. There's no love lost there. And I just have a hard time seeing the Giants doing anything that gives the Jets their guy (surely a QB.)

Just a thought, but I would be cynically amused if 4-6 QBs get drafted in the top 10, and 4 years from now Mike White is the best of the bunch, drafted by someone (NE?) in the 2nd round.

The Browns? After trading with Buffalo at 1? Kidding. But White was the QB I’ve liked the most. Feel he needs time and has flaws but think there’s a lot to like.

j/c

I know I have said, and have read others saying, the the Giants are more likely to take a QB than not.

1) Eli is 37, in decline, and has 2 years left on his contract
2) The Giants are a very good, well managed team who rarely see the top of the draft, their last top 5 pick was 2004 (Rivers @ 4)
3) Drafting his replacement to groom with this rare high pick makes a lot of sense
4) The main argument against drafting a QB is to try to win 1 more SB with Eli. But succeeding in that plan, or even coming close, would put them at the end of the 2019 draft with more urgency to find his replacement.

Eli has 2 SB wins, so I don't think winning another is as big an issue as some think. They are in a perfect position to get one of the top 2 QB's in a strong QB draft at a time when their franchise QB is winding down his career. Did I mention the Giants are a well managed team? While there is always a possibility they don't take a QB, I believe the odds are much stronger that they will.

What I heard from the NYG's beat writer was that they really like Sam Darnold and that he is the pick if available. If we go Darnold then they will take Saquon.

May be nothing but smoke and mirrors so take it for what it's worth because it isn't insider information. But this sounds reasonable to me.

Thats a logical scenario ... i’d Make one tweek to it ...

IF they do love Darnold and we take him ... and they want none of the other QB’s ... then they may very well move down ... they may all ready have a deal in place with either Denver or the Jills ... it may be why they told the jets no ...

I say they go QB ... look around the league .. how do u pass up on one of these guys when Eli has declined rapidly and he’s about done anyhow ... if anyone should know how hard it is to get a QB its us ...

Good thought, I would make one more tweak.
If they don't love any of the other Qb's, perhaps they trade down with the Jets. Drop one spot for a 2nd or a 3rd rounder and still get Saquon.

I think the Giants will take Rosen or Saquan or Chubb

Jets will not draft Rosen, they have the same problem has Cleveland - ultra conservative Owner. So its either Sam or Mayfield.

I would guess:

Cleveland : Sam
Giants: Rosen
Jets: Mayfield

https://nypost.com/2018/03/20/inside-giants-draft-thinking-which-is-leaning-away-from-a-qb/


Inside Giants’ draft thinking, which is leaning away from a QB
By Paul Schwartz March 20, 2018 | 6:05pm


There are five weeks until the NFL draft, five weeks until the Giants are on the clock with one of the most fascinating decisions in their history, a crossroads for their fans, their franchise and their foundation.


The player they take and the players they eschew with the No. 2 overall pick on the night of April 26 speak directly to this organization’s view of the past, its commitment to the present and plan for the future. This draft could define Dave Gettleman’s legacy as general manager, shape Pat Shurmur’s tenure as head coach and define the Eli Manning exit strategy.


Things can change in the coming weeks, and nothing is set in stone just yet. Based on conversations, observations, machinations and educated guesswork, here are scenarios The Post views as most pressing for the Giants as they brace for this monumental draft:


The Giants are not likely to take a quarterback, Part 1: There is no need to check Eli Manning’s birth certificate; his employer did not forget how old (37) he is. Gettleman is not against setting the franchise up with its quarterback for the next decade — if he views one of these prospects as worthy. The Giants do not think this quarterback class is in the same league as the Manning-Ben Roethlisberger-Philip Rivers class of 2004. Back then, the Giants (and most of the NFL) projected all three as capable of starting soon and starring forever. The Giants see the success of this year’s group as more hope than expectation.


The Giants are not likely to take a quarterback, Part 2: When their draft board is finalized, the expectation is Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen and Josh Allen will not be one of the top three overall players listed. All three, of course, will be assigned high first-round grades, but all three will fall short of the top three. The strong feeling is the Giants will have running back Saquon Barkley, guard Quenton Nelson and defensive end Bradley Chubb as their highest-rated players (not necessarily in that order). So, it would go against their draft-day rules at No. 2 to take a quarterback not rated as the No. 1, 2 or 3 player on their board. Reaching for a player is a sign of desperation, and the Giants do not see themselves as desperate to find Manning’s replacement, legitimately believing he has two years left in him — as long as they improve the talent, protection and play-making around him.


A running back so high? Sure, why not? There is nothing the Giants do not like, or love, about Barkley. His interview with them at the Scouting Combine was wonderful. Gettleman, with the Panthers last year, owned the No. 8 pick and took Christian McCaffrey, a gifted running back but not nearly the complete package Barkley offers an NFL team. The belief is Barkley will be the top-rated player on the Giants’ draft board, and they see him as enlivening and perhaps extending Manning’s career, as the offense finally returns the play-action threat to his arsenal.


If the Browns take Barkley at No. 1, then what? It looks as if the Browns will go for Darnold, but if they wait on a quarterback and take Barkley, the guess here is the Giants take Chubb. They view the drop-off at defensive end after Chubb as much greater than the drop-off at guard after Nelson. The Giants are confident they can get a starting-caliber guard in the second round, with the 34th overall pick. They believe Chubb stands alone as the best all-around defensive end in this draft. Plus, they are cognizant they pushed Jason Pierre-Paul and Olivier Vernon to near-exhaustion last year, and that in their Super Bowl-winning years they had a formidable three-man rotation at defensive end. Chubb would get at least 30 snaps a game, immediately, and could be viewed, as early as 2019, as JPP’s replacement. Plus, as someone with knowledge of the Giants’ thinking said, Chubb is “squeaky clean.”


So, the Giants are not keen on Nelson? Au contraire. They love him. They could envision him anchoring their offensive line for a decade, a bigger, better Chris Snee, which is quite a standard to live up to. The feeling is the Giants think No. 2 is too high for a guard, even one the quality of Nelson. If he played offensive tackle, he would be the pick. He still could be, though — Nelson is that good.


Let’s get back to the quarterbacks: It is understandably difficult for many fans to jump off the quarterback trail, rightly so, considering the Giants have not drafted this high in 37 years. Gettleman has assigned two nearly impossible prerequisites for this No. 2 pick: It must be a player he can envision becoming a Hall of Famer, and the player must not only be worthy of the No. 2 selection this year, but in any year. The strong feeling here: The Giants believe Darnold, Rosen and Allen do not meet these criteria, while Barkley and Nelson unquestionably fit, and Chubb might as well.


Reading the tea leaves: Has any Giants move to this point indicated anything other than all-in on winning now? They put their faith in a quarterback entering his 15th season. They made a left tackle (Nate Solder), who will be 30 before he ever dons a Giants uniform and has never been named to a Pro Bowl, the league’s highest-paid offensive lineman. They signed Jonathan Stewart, a running back with too much tread on his tires — he turns 31 on Wednesday — to mentor the room (hello, Saquon) and get the tough yards. A rookie quarterback needing a few years to develop does not seem to fit.

I'd be shocked if Barkley went 1 or 2.

- Browns are taking a QB at #1, probably Darnold.

- QB is going #2, probably Rosen. I lean toward the Giants making this pick but it could be the Bills or another team trading up. Giants won't give the Jets their guy though.

- Jets take their top QB remaining. Probably Allen, could be Mayfield or even Darnold/Rosen if they happen to be there.

I'd still put the Giants taking Barkley at 50/50. I could see them going for one last playoff run with Eli at the helm, and Barkley would help a lot with that. But I can just as easily seem them taking a QB to groom for a year or two down the road.

The Giants just went 3-13. They're not just a RB away from contending. It would be better for them to grab their QB now while they can.

Failing that, the #2 pick is extremely valuable (look at this Jets/Colts trade for #3) and somebody will be willing to pay a lot for it. If #3 is worth #6 plus three second round picks, what is #2 worth? And how do you justify passing up all that value to draft any player other than your future franchise QB?

I would not be surprised to see Mayfield with the Jets. But this comment confuses me. An ultra-conservative owner would pass on Rosen but be OK with Mayfield and his antics? Or am I misunderstanding your point?

I think he means politics and not antics.. Supposedly we hate Rosen cause he wore a anti Trump hat once.

The Giants article has a lot of good points and makes sense but at this point who really knows. It could all be a smokescreen. As far as the Jets I really believe they like Mayfield. His personality and playing style would bring a lot of attention to that franchise and create much discussion about them. The Jets don't get much press and even in New York they are 2nd to the Giants. Mayfield could do for them what Joe Namath did 50 years ago. JMO

Isn't completely insane to think nobody has any frickin clue whatsoever who the Browns are interested in?
At all?

Here are my thoughts or rather feelings. I have no inside information. This is not even an educated guess or opinion. Just the pure feelings I get from what I have read, so please don't ask me why I feel this because there really is no why.

I think our front office likes Mayfield a lot.
I think Haley is going to push for Josh Allen
I think Hue will like Lamar Jackson
I don't think anyone in the organization likes Rosen

The Wild Card? Darnold. I have absolutely zero on how we feel about him.

I agree on Barkley.
I agree Darnold will probably be our pick at #1.
I agree that Rosen will probably go #2. I don't think it will be by the Giants though - I'll say Denver with an outside chance of Buffalo.
I agree Jets take a QB, but I think it will be Mayfield.

I think we take Chubb at #4.
I think the Giants take Barkley at #5 (assuming Denver trade), though to me it there's still a high chance it is Nelson). They just picked Davis Webb last year and he hasn't yet taken a snap in a game - and everything I've read thus far is that he's working his tail off and absorbing everything he can...with Solder, a 2nd round guard (Hernandez?), and Barkley, I believes it gives Eli at least another year unless he stinks it up)
I think Buffalo trades up with Indy to get Allen at #6

Chubb at 4? Here's two things I've noticed/thought of:

1. A lot of people want various players. Be it Minkah, Chubb, Barkley, a mini trade down, that tackle Nelson and it goes on and on.

2. Most people aren't going to be that mad or upset, or upset at all, if their player isn't taken because of the available talent and skill there at opposite positions and we probably need help at all of the above.