DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum is John Dorsey the 1st Browns GM with the win now approach?

Maybe if we get a friendly and weak season schedule, but I feel like we're still a long way from a 50/50 or winning season and ESPECIALLY a playoff run...

Playoffs!?!?!?!! Playofffffffffffs!?!?!?!

We have the 5th toughest schedule in the NFL ( based on last year's records ), so I do not expect even 8 - 8 .. atm 6 - 10 seems like Heaven.


Attitude subject to change after Draft ...

Agreed. As I said in an earlier post JD is trying to become more competitive right now while still building for the future. I'm sure he feels that it is important to change the losing culture we have here as fast as possible while still building a team that can compete at a high level on a yearly basis. I believe we finally have the right man for the job. It won't be easy.

Part of the Dorsey's moves towards winning now......

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.@TyrodTaylor, @RandallTime and @God_Son80 in the building




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Hey, it's not my fault you hitched your wagon with a loser.


We should win 8-9 games minimum. You can be happy with 1-31 if that's what you want. I. I don't want that.



You are a friend, but don't expect me to be good with 3-6 wins.

J/C

One thing I love about these moves is that you could make a serious case that nothing about it is truly a "win now" move.

Dorsey added a bunch of young players who, theoretically, could contribute for a long time to come. The only reason it's seen as "win now" moves is because they're damn talented and capable.

Randall and Juice are very young players coming off their rookie contracts. The same is true of Hyde and Hubbard. Taylor is going to be turning only 29.

It's weird to add so many established players, but do so knowing they are all pretty young. "win now" has always implied, to me, the ability to win immediately but at the expense of cap restraints or player age lurking just around the corner.

I feel like we're truly getting the best of both worlds.

I noticed that the Browns essentially have a brand new backfield.
Crowell Kizer out
Taylor Hyde in.
I think one reason for moving Kizer is he would never be able to get past that 0 15 cloud
the pressure would have been too great
bring Taylor in...he has no connection to last year's 0 16 diaster .

It's a really exciting line up, too. Gordon and Landry, along with Njoku, is a perfect mix of talent. Hyde is an incredible compliment to Duke Johnson - the beast to our beauty, the power to our finesse. Taylor is a savvy, highly efficient quarterback who can capitalize on that talent.

Credit to Dorsey, it's a complete overhaul of the offense that cost a remarkably small amount of assets.

I think a large reason Kizer is gone is because of the reports the Browns are locked in on a QB at #1. Simplify. Grab Taylor for the year, develop the rookie for a year, win-win for the present and the future. I love Kizer but it is an uncertain future. I would guess the Browns see more certainty in someone coming though the draft.

Personally, I think the Browns are going to take Rosen or Darnold at #1, and then let the Bills move up to #4. Browns at #12 and #22 can address some key positions - CB and OT are probably the big ones right now, but we're also in a strong position to legitimate draft BPA.

I'm not a huge fan of trading down, but Dorsey has removed much of the immediacy in which we needed some positions addressed.

Playoffs. I think we can get there.

Serious or high lol We have a brand new offense, new quarterback, new starting running back(either Hyde or a draft pick) new receiver or receivers? New Left Tackle. New guy shouting plays at our new quarterback. All those pieces have to work together in harmony. That takes repetition. Takes time... 8 to 10 wins is asking a lot.

Browns' John Dorsey: 'We want long-term success' with Tyrod Taylor

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns GM John Dorsey isn't viewing quarterback Tyrod Taylor as a one-year rental until the first-round rookie is ready to roll.

"We want success and we want long-term success with Tyrod,'' general manager John Dorsey said in a press conference Thursday. "Right now he's our starting quarterback, and right now I couldn't be more excited to have Tyrod as a Cleveland Brown.''

Acquired in a trade with the Bills on Friday for the No. 65 pick, Taylor is under contract in 2018 for $16 million, including a $6 million bonus due Friday. With the Browns poised to draft a quarterback at No. 1 or No. 4 overall, it would seem that Taylor is a short-term solution, but maybe not.

"That's a hypothetical,'' said Dorsey. "You never know what's going to happen in the draft. We've always said that. But having Tyrod Taylor in this organization, I know one thing: He's been to the playoffs, he understands how to do it, he's led men. And for him to be here, that's exciting. We'll see when we get to the draft, then we'll get to that component and we'll see what happens there.''

Dorsey said Taylor was the consensus pick in the organization over free-agent options such as AJ McCarron, whom the Browns tried to trade for in October, and Case Keenum. Jackson said he also coveted Taylor last offseason.

"We did it as an organization and we all kind of sat and talked together,'' Dorsey said. "At the end of it, just listening to what everybody had to say what's best for this organization, we did what's best for this organization.''

Dorsey, who's been associated with elite quarterbacks such as Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith, said he is thrilled with Taylor leading the team. If the Browns want to keep him, they can sign him to an extension or franchise him in the offseason.

"The beauty of Tyrod is - you all have met him - he's a natural leader,'' said Dorsey. "He has the skillset physically to extend plays. He does not turn the ball over, which I really like and admire. He has the arm strength to really go deep. He fits the mechanics of what (Head Coach) Hue (Jackson) and (offensive coordinator) Todd (Haley) are looking for in the offense. I just thought it was a natural fit."

While Dorsey shaped the overhauled the roster over the past two days, he skipped the Pro Days of Baker Mayfield and Josh Rosen. Should anything be read into that?

"You never know,'' he said.

In the meantime, he's already got his starting QB in the building.


http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ncart_big-photo

I never really watched any tape on TT until we brought him in. I have to admit that I've been impressed with the tape that I have watched since. I think he could be the guy for a few years (4-5) since he's only 28.

I'm not saying don't draft a QB, but I don't think it's as critical at this point.

Oh, and TT is really ripped. He has freakish arms for a QB in my opinion.

From what Hue said and what JD said, JD listened to all groups separately, got together with all groups at once and then laid out his plan and executed it.

I don't get the impression it's a "my way or no way" type ordeal either. Very excited for this draft, and I can't wait.

Yeah, now that we have a FO that actually understands what NFL talent looks like I'd like to see him get a year to see what he can do. If that's what you call hitching your wagon to someone, so be it.




Happy with 1-31? Even you know netter than that. But I look at our schedule and who our QB will be and try to have something close to realistic expectations.





Oh we are certainly friends. But I can see when a person sets their expectations so high that it sets up others to fail. And that's exactly what you're doing. We signed a QB who has won two more games than he has lost in his entire career. And we don't have a Sammy Watkins.

We're actually not as far off as you think. I believe they should win 6-8 games. But unlike what you seem to be saying, I'm looking at our roster and our schedule in trying to be logical. Not stating "what will make me happy".

Its all depending on if he allows the dumbest and worst head coach in football at the helm if he starts out losing.

The so call QB gurus offense had the most inaccurate passer in football passing 75 % of the offensive plays how hes even here still is my real guestion mark about DORSEY


j\c

Is that why Hue no longer has any control of the offense - and why Dorsey didn't acquire Hue's beloved McCarron.

I think we all agree that the roster needed continued improvement, but Jackson fans gotta stop pretending that Hue comes out of this as some big winner.

The only thing that didn't change is Hue's job title. He lost literally everything else.

What?

What is this? Nothing but speculation?

Jackson hired Haley. Jackson told us that the decision to hire an OC was his and his alone. It was the right decision, but he made it.

Jackson said we wanted to get Tyrod Taylor last season. Said it in the interview.

And Hue's pay check didn't change neither. He is the head coach. And Todd Haley works for him. He still has control of the offense.

Anything else is PURE SPECULATION

But that's the narrative some wish to create no matter what.

Of course he did. And when he was done, Dorsey gave him a treat and told him he was a good boy.

Facts don't really matter much to you do they?

If all this was the case that you say it is, why wouldn't Jackson just be fired?

I mean, that's what you're describing him as. Nothing more than a figure head. I mean, under your situation, he controls what? The defense?

What's the point? Why wouldn't they fire Jackson and hire someone else?


I'm sorry, this is all BS man.



You might have trouble coming to terms with us being 1-31 under Jackson, and Jackson keeping his job (which I can understand. I was surprised he wasn't fired).

But he's still the head coach. And what you describe is the most disfunctional organization i've ever heard of. A Head Coach with coordinators above him, just a propped up figure.

No NFL Team is run that way. The coordinators still answer to Jackson. Therefore Jackson is in charge of the offense and defense. Dorsey is in charge of the roster. Both of them work together and answer to Jimmy Haslam.


Now whether Paul DePodesta works for Dorsey or Haslam. I dunno


EDIT: Just because Jackson gives offensive duties to Haley, doesn't mean he's given up control. He oversees the entire operation. It's called delegation. That's what managers do. They delegate duties or choose to do them themselves.

But they understand that they are still responsible for their part of the operation. How the defense and offense does is still Hue Jackson's responsibility. Just because someone else is calling the plays or in charge of this aspect or that, doesn't mean that Jackson isn't in charge of the entire operation.

Dorsey has made no excuses only promises. I like that. He is confident and expects to win now. Very refreshing.

I do not believe this, admittedly without facts to back it up, but based on scattered bits of information (real or implied) and common sense deduction...

I do. "Hue, hire an OC or you're fired!". Hue's decision to keep his job was his and his alone.

you?

We are of like mind; simply coming at it from different angles...

Sorry to derail guys like BDU, peen, 32, and jfan, but I actually have some thoughts on the topic of the thread. It is my hope that others will follow suit and stop the same small crew of guys who poison almost every thread on this forum. In other words, stop arguing w/these guys. Let them spew their hate and just post about the topic. I have a feeling a bunch of people are sick of hearing about Hue in every freaking thread. Just ignore those guys. They are hurting the quality of the board.

I think Dorsey deserves a lot of credit for how he approached this off-season. I don't like all of the moves, but I think he had a plan and was very aggressive in carrying it out.

The most brilliant aspect of the plan was how he went out and traded for players. We can debate the value of the trades and I can see both sides of the coin in regards to value on some of the trades.

However, the genius was in he recognized that the Cleveland Browns were not a desirable destination for most free agents. The team didn't win a game last year. It's won 1 in two years. Guys get fired all time. Fans are calling for the HC to be fired. The owner has a quick trigger to fire coaches. The weather sucks. The city is in the rust belt and isn't all that attractive. The night life is rather dull.

So, Dorsey goes out and acquires vets that will positively impact important positions in which the team was lacking. Dorsey certainly backed up his words about getting some real players in here. It was a gutsy plan and he probably knew he would receive some criticism, but he knew he had to get some players in here because Cleveland is not a place where most FA's would elect to sign w/out overpaying them.

I think Dorsey wanted to get guys like Soldier and Trumaine Johnson, but lost out on them because of the things I addressed earlier. And I think this is evidence as to why the trades he made were such a great idea.

I'm encouraged thus far, but very nervous about the draft. I have a feeling he is going to blow the qb position in the draft. And that is going to upset me. But, it's nice to know that we have a guy who understands the importance of actually working w/his coaching staff and getting them the players they need to win. I love that he understands that you can improve while planning for the future, as well.

Dorsey seems to be following a familiar script. In Kansas City, armed with the #1 pick in the draft, Dorsey traded for a mid level QB who did not turn the ball over, cut the previous year's starting QB, then proceeded to fill out his roster with players to help make his new team better immediately. He did not use any of his draft picks on a rookie QB.

I know he did not have the overwhelming number of high draft picks in KC that he has in Cleveland, but based on his past experience and success, I'm not so sure he will draft a QB in the first round. To be doing his second rebuild of a team who has earned the number 1 pick in the draft, he just may follow the same script that made him successful his first time around.

Actually it was Pit who brought up Hue. The thread is about a win now approach...and i agree, thinking we are primed to win 8-9 games this season.

I agree that the trade option was a great move by Dorsey. I don't agree that the city is as poor as you make it out, but by trading we were in control, even before FA started. We could then point towards some of those guys to help convince free players we are turning the corner. It also helped to sell some season tickets. Those moved helped me to decide to send in my money for another season.

As to the draft, I am always nervous about that. Especially when drafting a QB. You just never know with those guys. I am not as dead set in my position that I am going to be upset with who we pick or don't pick as you have stated you are. I will give it time.

I would like to see us follow the blueprint the Skins followed a few years back. I wouldn't mind drafting a 2nd QB in maybe round 4 as a fall back option. I don't know who might be there....maybe a Luke Faulk or someone like that. I have read that Dorsey has mentioned Mike White. I don't know where he falls on the big board. Heck, maybe take one with a 2nd rounder....the Eagles pick.

j/c

Not sure where else to put this, but I haven't seen any suggestions for mash up names for the current FO and coaches. I'd like to throw out a suggestion, one I think Game of Thrones fans may appreciate:

HueDor

See. Tyrod is NOT Alex Smith. Don't think that he is. Alex Smith was/is a superior player to Tyrod Taylor. That's why they traded different compensation for Smith.

That's why we tried to trade for Smith this past offseason first.

Don't forget that Tyrod was benched this season in favor of Nate Peterman, rookie 5th round pick.

So I think your model is arbitrary. Because they aren't the same people. You're comparing two different levels of player

Yes, but at the time he was traded for he wasn’t the player he is now, even got beat out by Kapernick.

If I remember there were a bunch of ???? About Smith when Dorsey made that trade. Was even being considered as a potential bust. Correct me if I’m remembering wrong.

I disagree. He was beat out by Kaep. But Harbaugh was very high on Kaep. Smith was a better QB than Tyrod. And Smith is in the league now, and Kaep isn't. Harbaugh is a funny guy that way though. I can go out and push the stats on you, or you can look them up yourself.

His big playoff season with the 49ers, he took the Giants to the edge in the NFC championship. The same Giants that won the Super Bowl vs the Pats.


We traded a 3rd round pick for Tyrod. The Chiefs traded a 2nd round pick for Alex Smith (and I was frustrated we didn't make a good offer for him at the time myself).

Just watching the two, Alex Smith, when he went to the Chiefs, was a superior player to Tyrod Taylor. There's a reason the Bills have wanted to drop Tyrod for awhile now.


Doesn't mean Tyrod isn't better htan anything we have had in awhile though. Don't get me wrong, I like Tyrod Taylor. But let's not set up unrealistic expectations for the guy.

Same old thing I've been hearing since 2006. Seems like the Browns have tried nothing new except to continue what we know doesn't work, the constant change, I mean, not keeping the team together and adding a few pieces here and there.

Exercise and eating right, this team has tried every diet under the sun, all except for exercise and eating right. (What is exercise and eating right?)
Keeping the team together, get a core solid group, and adding a couple pieces here and there, until you shore up all the defeciencies and play better.

We've just left the Pettine Farmer diet, to the Sashi Hue diet, and Dorsey? It looks like a Hodge Podge;
let's see how it works.

Look to the future, the past is ugly! Go Browns!