DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Chubb

After reading that I poked around a couple others on that site and when read the article about the QB deficiencies of the top prospects, I've decided that only a foolish GM would take Josh Allen before the third round. Trouble with accuracy, touch and reading coverages.
And some guys think we should take him?
LMAO.

So many of his highlights are him slinging it off balance or flying throught the air to his right side. That won't fly in the pros.

Josh Allen that is...

yeah rodgers never does that.

I view Chubb as the better pick and I think the Browns do to, He will make MG and the defensive backfield better.

As much as I like Barkley, he is still a RB and I don't take RB at the top of the draft.

JMHO but Chubb is the better pick.

I don't know if he is the better pick, but I'd be ok if we took Chubbs at 4.

You give Haley, Darnold.

You give Williams, Chubb.

Seems fair.

Absolutely ... resting either MG, Chubb or Ogbah on all first downs and a bunch of 2nd downs or on 3rd and short .... sounds like a BRILLIANT MOVE to me ... ...

jc

I like the idea of taking Chubb. Make DE a strength of the team. You can't have too many good players on the D line and can easily find playing time for 3 good ends. So Chubb comes into the league, and he starts out as a situational pass rusher. This is how the Broncos used Von Miller early on and is pretty common for young pass rushers.

As he comes into his own, you can still find time. D line can be exhausting to play and you need rotational guys anyway. Players get injured and you need depth. In pass rushing situations you can move guys around, maybe have Chubb and Ogbah at ends and move Garrett inside to cause havoc on an interior lineman who can't match MG's athleticism.

To slow down teams like the Pats, Steelers, and other elite passing offenses, you have to be able to get to the QB!

Tom Brady has played in 8 Super Bowls, winning 5 and losing 3. Look at the DEs/D-lines of the 3 teams the Pats lost to.

The Giants in 2007 had Strahan, Osi, and Tuck at DE. In 2011, it was Osi, Tuck, and JPP. The Eagles may have the deepest and most talented defensive line in the league: Brandon Graham, Chris Long, Fletcher Cox, Derek Barnett, Timmy Jernigan, and Haloti Ngata. They recently added Michael Bennett to the mix.

There are different ways to build a team. Some want to build around the running game, old school smash mouth football and I respect that. I personally like the idea of an explosive passing offense, combined with a relentless pass rush on the other side of the ball. There's more to it than that obviously but that's a good foundation for winning football in the modern NFL.

Hue Jackson has envisioned Bradley Chubb and Myles Garrett together and more | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/03/hue_jackson_has_envisioned_bra.html#incart_2box


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns coach Hue Jackson has dared to dream about Myles Garrett and North Carolina State's Bradly Chubb blasting in off the edges and drilling unsuspecting quarterbacks.

"I do at nighttime when I'm by myself,'' Jackson said Tuesday at the NFL Annual Meeting coaches breakfast. "You kind of play that scenario game with all these different guys. I wish I could have them all. There will be good scenarios as we come down to the end here.''

Chubb, widely regarded as the best pass rusher in the draft, is one of the gamechangers the Browns are considering with their No. 4 overall pick. Depending on how the first three picks go, Saquon Barkley and Minkah Fitzpatrick could be there, too.

"Obviously, as you guys have already pegged it, we're taking a quarterback, and then here comes the No. 4 pick," Jackson said. "We need impact football players, period, and that's part of where we are. So here's another opportunity to put some impact players on our team that can help us get to winning as fast as we can.''

GM John Dorsey acknowledged that Chubb and Garrett are "very similar, (but) two different players. they play the game in different levels. Myles is such an athletic (player), to me, he's more like Julius Peppers in terms of his movement skills and his length and how he plays. Chubb plays the game a little bit differently, but he's still an unbelievable defensive prospect for this draft.''

Jackson expects Garrett to make a big leap in year two. As a rookie, Garrett had seven sacks and one forced fumble in only 11 games. At that same clip over 16 games, he would've had 10 sacks as a rookie. As it was, he finished tied for second among rookies. Imagine if he had Chubb and Emmanuel Ogbah both drawing some attention away from him.

"Myles Garrett is on the cusp of really turning into a really, really good football player in this league,'' said Jackson.

But at least one analyst, ESPN's Louis Riddick, the former Browns safety and former Eagles Pro Personnel Director, likes Chubb better.

"I'm of the belief that if last year, you're stacking (Chubb) up play-for-play with Myles Garrett and they're both coming out at the same time, I'm taking Bradley Chubb ahead of Myles Garrett," Riddick said on SportsCenter. "I think he's that good."

(There is more at the link)

I was just gonna post ^that^ story!

...Oh well.....

I hope we're able to get Chubb

I'll take two please.

Ogbah and Garrett played, what six games together last season?

Road to the Draft: Making the case for, against NC State DE Bradley Chubb

The case for NC State defensive end Bradley Chubb

1. Best pass rusher in the draft: Chubb had the opportunity to enter the draft last year and, odds are, he'd have been a first-round pick. He opted to return to NC State and will reap the rewards because of it. It's hard to find anyone who doesn't think Chubb is the best pass-rushing prospect in this year's class, a distinction that all but assures he'll be a top-10 selection. The top pass rusher has been picked at No. 1 or No. 3 in each of the past five drafts, making it an absolute coup if the Browns could land him with the fourth pick. It's one of the most valuable positions on the field, and it's hard to pass up someone as good at playing it as Chubb does.

2. He's reliable and can do it all: Chubb is considered a "clean" prospect because of his lack of off-the-field concerns and minimal injury history. Outside of this past year's bowl game, which he sat out to maintain his good health going into the pre-draft process, Chubb didn't miss a single game in his final three seasons at NC State. Though he's not a flashy, freak athlete like some of the recent top-ranked pass rushers to come out of college, Chubb has an NFL-ready body and a work ethic that pushed him to get better and better throughout his college career. He's a force against the run, as displayed by his 26 tackles for loss, as well as against the pass, and he has the flexibility to play at multiple spots and in multiple schemes. Simply put, it's hard to find weaknesses in his overall game.

3. You can never have enough pass rushers: The Browns have devoted significant draft capital to pass rushers over the past few years, including, of course, the No. 1 overall pick to Myles Garrett in 2017. In theory, the Browns are set at the end positions with Garrett and Emmanuel Ogbah, the team's second-round selection in 2016. Injuries, though, hurt both players last season, and the value of depth was tested in a major way. Cleveland's production at the position dipped, and it hurt the entire defense. The Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles showed there's no such thing as too many talented pass rushers, and the Browns, even with their recent roster moves, are in no position to turn one down, especially one with the talent level of Chubb.

The case against Chubb

1. Another defensive lineman?: Over the past three drafts, the Browns have used two first-round picks, two second-rounders and three third-round selections on defensive linemen. Two (Danny Shelton and Xavier Cooper) are no longer with the team, but the remainder comprise a young core that has been supplemented by a number of pleasant surprises along the way, such asTrevon Coley and Jamie Meder. Adding another to the room could be viewed by some as overkill, especially when it comes time to sign those players to their second contracts.

2. There might be better options at that spot in the draft: Rubbish! The first three picks could break in a number of different ways. What seems to be almost a lock, though, is the Browns -- if they take a quarterback at No. 1 -- will have their choice of whom they consider to be, at the least, the second-best non-quarterback in this entire year's class. If the Giants opt for a quarterback at No. 2, Cleveland would all but assuredly be getting the best non-quarterback because the Jets, who traded into the third spot, are all but a lock to take a signal-caller. That gives the Browns some options that go beyond Chubb and are equally tempting. Saquon Barkley, who many believe is the draft's top overall prospect, would sure look nice in Cleveland's new-look offense. Minkah Fitzpatrick or Denzel Ward would be a heck of an addition to a new-look secondary. And the trade offers, presumably, will be pouring in from teams who covet one of the final, "top" quarterbacks on the board.

3. Cleveland could find talented pass rushers later in the draft: Rubbish! With three second-round picks, the Browns have a lot of flexibility near the end of Day 1 and throughout Day 2. If they covet a pass rusher near the end of the first round, such as Texas-San Antonio's Marcus Davenport or Boston College's Harold Landry, they have the assets to make that kind of move feasible. It didn't take much last year for the Browns to snag a third, first-round pick, and with picks at No. 33, 35 and 64, they can make a move much higher into that first round than they did to take David Njokuat 29. Players like Davenport, Landry and LSU's Arden Key might not provide the total package that Chubb does, but they could be serviceable, integral pieces to a rotating defense from Day 1.

...

If Chubb is #1 on our list you have to take him at 4 if he's available.

The DL is a rotational position today and we normally play 6-7 players on any given Sunday, so natually a team that can rotate players in and out of the line up with quality players so that there is not a drop off of talent, while affording others to stay fresh is a huge advantage for any team.

Behind the QB position...the DE position is the most valued of the other positions...

P.S. I've been expecting you

There has not been a FS/CB selected in the draft with the 4th selection or higher since Woodson. If Chubb (plan A) where off the board this would be my plan B.

Barkley would be dumb imo... with so much talent at the position this year, but I'am not going to be broken hearted either if he is the pick.

3. You can never have enough pass rushers.

I want opposing QBs driven into the dirt! Shellshock every Sunday!

I agree...I don't care who else is on the board @4.

The way I feel is any of the top picks will work, they are all so close in value.. even the QBs... and they will all improve the Browns... so can't really complain.

With the Browns on record as not going to play the rookie QB this year .. anbd having plans to have him ride the bench all year .. I'm not picky about QB. Any of the top 5 will do. He will be on the bench learning .. as he should be. Taylor is and should be the starter anyway ..

JMHO

J/C

I'm a little wary of Chubb.

Part of me thinks he's a little overrated due to the weakness of this DE class, so he'll go earlier than he should to a team desperately trying to solidify their pass rush. He's undoubtedly the top rusher of the class, but I don't think we could say the same in years past. The comparisons to Myles Garrett feel off. Garrett was and is a freak of nature who flashed moments of being a bigger, stronger Von Miller.

Chubb is very good, but he was never truly dominant. His athletic testing at the combine was pretty good but not Garrett levels of otherworldly. He's talented but there are certainly limitations to his game. He's certainly not developed, disciplined or defined. None of that is a deal breaker for the young man, as it is true for most rookies, but I do question if he's truly a luxury pick at a position lacking need.

I agree the Browns don't have great DE depth, but lacking depth doesn't scream, "Use the #4 pick!" to me. Especially when Chubb reminds me a lot of a less athletic Ogbah. Really similar combine numbers (Chubb bust out four more reps, but Ogbah destroyed him on the 20 shuttle and 3 cone in spite of being bigger) and similar collegiate numbers and styles. Ogbah, too, was viewed as very talented but having some of the same limitations as I see in Chubb.

Full disclosure, I overrated Ogbah as a prospect. I had him as a top 15 talent, but I already feel that was justified given some of the players from that class struggling while Ogbah has been good but not yet great.

I don't know. I'm not against Chubb, I'm just not ready to say we're certainly adding another legitimate-could-be-star beside Garrett. Most seem to think we're adding a pro-bowler beside Garrett. I'm not even sure we'll be adding a guy who'll soon catch up to a developed and conditioned Ogbah who was woefully underrated last year. I see Chubb as more a Solomon Thomas than a Myles Garrett. Damn fine young player to add, but he's not an elite prospect, in my eyes.

Nothing against Chubb, he's a fine prospect and I certainly wouldn't be unhappy to see him in Cleveland, I'm just sceptical that he's a BPA pick who isn't so talented that he's a can't-pass kind of prospect.

Personally, I'm stuck on Denzel Ward. He might be a reach at #4, but I see our secondary as a much greater weakness than our defensive front. We could use a top corner to help give our pass rushers a little more time to make an impact.

I am good with Ward at #4. I like Fitz because he is a field general. To do that he would have to play safety. I think we are looking more for a corner. If we played Fitz at corner, he couldn't be the field general, taking away his greatest asset. I think Ward is probably slightly better as a cover corner.

Shutdown corner is very important to a defense. Some positions you can address with a rotation. Some you can not. Shutdown corner falls in to the can not's.

How can you state, the statement that Chubb is being overvalued, when draft grades are not given collectively, but individually?

You can debate the grades;
Chubb 7.25 (projecting pro bowl talent) and Ogbah 6.07 (projecting starting talent), but you can not say that because of a week class that Chubb is being overvalued.

As to your statement regarding their respective 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle times.
Ogbah's 3 cone was 0.11 sec better than that of Chubb.
That is about the time it takes one to blink their eye,...this is hardly destroying the other in my estimation, and as to the 20 yard shuttle time, Chubb had the better time and not Ogbah as you mistakenly (benefit of doubt) or deliberately stated.

The combine is not a barometer of a prospect. It can only serve to reaffirm what the tape shows.

I say that your post is indicative of your true motive, which by negative evidence to the contrary, exposed your true bias towards your preference of another prospect.

Negative evidence is actually no evidence to the contrary and it can not elevate another.

It's like forming a presupposition, such as stating that all of the players that we brought in to help shore up our secondary are nothing but a Band-Aid, which may or may not be the case, but basing this assumption on negative evidence at this point, because it prematurely comes to a conclusion, without any concrete evidence. 
We did not make these transactions in the hope of merely remaining status que and they do not preclude addressing in the Draft.

Drafting based on a perceived need is usually a path that leads to destruction, not construction.

Taking Chubb would not be a statement against Ogbah.

25 sacks, 54.5 TFL, 6 FF (1fr), 1 INT and 4 PD, with 198 total tackles is a pretty dominate stat line in my book for a DE coming out of College in any draft class.

We won't pass on him twice.

Please don't draft a linebacker in the first round!

I started all in on Fitzpatrick with our 4th overall ..... but as time went along, the idea of being able to rotate 3 top end DE, Ogbah, Garrett, and Chubb, became overwhelming. That would improve our secondary immensely.

I hope not! They didn't learn their lesson last year?

(Yes that means I think Myles Garret was the wrong selection to make with last years pick. Nothing about the player, it was just the wrong choice, in my opinion.)

And even the pick of Myles would make the pick of Chubb even more wrong, because it's doubling up on a bad idea.

Sort of like you'd feel if Brady Quinn were somehow #1 overall and they followed the next year with Charlie Frye at #1.

Is there a time to take the worlds best pass rusher? YES!
Is it when you have DeShaun Watson staring at you followed by Baker Mayfield when you get a 2nd chance a year later? NO!

Not unless you already have a QB at least.

I'd agree. The only thing is, Ogbah is a LDE. I don't think he would be effective on the right side. He's not interchangeable. So the rotation gets me confused. Although, I think Chubb can play either side, and Garrett probably can too.

But a really good player is a really good player. And Chubb dominated this past season (the only time I've watched him). I'm very impressed with the guy.


I still prefer Barkley, because I'd like to add more firepower to our offense.

But if we could somehow move up into the 1st round (maybe with the Eagles' second and Houston's second?) and get Guice, who I really like, I'd be all for Chubb with the number 4 pick.


Chubb's surely gonna be a stud, and a stud at an impact position. Nothing against Ogbah, but I don't think Ogbah's ceiling will match Chubb's. And a Chubb/Garrett duo would be quite formidable. Within a year or two, probably the best pass rushing tandem in football

I like Fritz too, but I thought that Chubb would have surly been taken @3 by the Colts, but now our chances of him being available at pick four increased by 50% when the Jets moved up to pick two, presumably to select a QB.

Quit hitting below the belt ... it’s FITZ .... not fRitz ... he’s not your cat ... *LOL* ...

I get that the pass rush affects the db play IMMENSLEY in both directions ... a good pass rush definelty improves a secondaries play .... a lack of a pass rush has a negative affect ..

But U know what helps a secondary even more than a good pass rush ... TALENTED PLAYERS IN YOUR SECONDARY ... its like u guys think a good pass rush makes ANY SECONDARY GOOD ... it doesn’t .... we STILL NEED AT LEAST 1 STARTING CALIBER CB, possibly two ... AND as of right now we have NO PROVEN FS ...

Crap ... RIGHT NOW TODAY we have more good DE’s than we do DB’s and that’s before DRAFTING CHUBB ... ...

What world does that make sense in? ...

How about we bring in BETTER SECONDARY PLAYER to improve the secondary ... what a novel concept ... ...

U want proof ... GO LOOK AT HOW THIS STRATEGY WORKED OUT FOR DORSEY in KC ... and i wont like the pick but it will be a HUGE BLACK MARK against Dorsey for trying a dumb ass strategy that has all ready FAILED HIM ONCE!!!!

Why would I pass on the best pass rusher in the Draft, when I can find some good DBs' or RBs' in the second round?!

There won't be any talent like Ogbah at the top of the second round this year.

It's a case of Draft strategy and also taking the better prospect.

U cant find NO ONE NEAR the quality of Fitz or Ward at their respective positions in the draft after round 1...

NOT EVEN CLOSE ...

The other reasons i’ve all ready stated NUMEROUS TIMES ....

- id rather improve the secondary with better secondary players ...
- fitz will play EVERY DOWN and not force anyone else into an un-natural position to accommodate him ...
- fitz will be the qb of our secondary for years to come ...
- fitz is a HUGE CHESS PIECE in the game .. HUGE ...

And i dont agree that Chubb is the best prospect in this draft ... i think Fitz is ... thats MY OPINION and u can’t have it ...

Ward is not soo much better than the players that will be avalible at the top of the second round imo...and in relation to his peers, he is no better than the 7th-9th best prospect and he is undersized to boot.

F(r)itz is a good player and I would be happy to add him to our team...IF Chubb is not an option.

Reid and Bates would be good additions too @ FS, so no the cupboard is not bare after Fitz.

My board @4;
Chubb
Fitz
Trade down

Just watched a piece by Greg Cossell regarding Chubb ... I'm all in with him at #4

I see the odds of Chubb being avalible @4 at 50%. Although I think that the Giants will suck in their new 34 defense, with two DEs'at OLB, with Vernon and Chubb.

Fitz is a 100% bet to be avalible...so the odds are with your boy anyway.

Ward would be drafting for a perceived need and somewhat of a reach @4.

QB is a prerequisite rather then a need.

The gnats are taking a QB at 2 ... either that or thy’ll trade down ....

Quan and Chubb will both be there ...

We wont pick Fitz or your cat ... *L* ....

It’ll be Quan or Chubb ... then i pray guys like u and tabber are right about those two ...

I’ll still think it makes no sense ... but it is what it is ...

And none of those safeties or corners u mentioned after Fitz or Ward can carry either of their jocks IMO ...

The only one that is close with those two is James i think his name is ... the fs from FSU ...

Theirs a reason Ward and fitz are probable top 10 picks and the rest fall to rnd 2 other than James .. and its not like at RB where the 2nd or 3rd rb could be as good as Quan .... ITS NOT THAT CLOSE ...

Hopefully whoever we pick will pan out ... we all have our favs but im pretty sure were all on board for hoping whoever we pick STUDS OUT ...

I think there is an outside chance that we take Barkley at 1, Chubb at 4 and target Mayfield, Rudolph, or Jackson either in the second or by trading up. Slim chance but a chance.

Will have to wait until Draft day to know for sure what the Giant's do, Im still not 100 % sold on them taking a QB, but in the event that we do pass on Fitz in the first round...I think that this prospect could be a good option @FS.

Justin Reid:
HT: 6'0" WT: 207LBS.
POSITION: S
SCHOOL: Stanford
ARM LENGTH: 31 5/8"
HANDS: 9 3/4"

40 YARD DASH: 4.40 SEC
BENCH PRESS: 16 REPS
VERTICAL JUMP: 36.5 INCH
BROAD JUMP: 128.0 INCH
3 CONE DRILL: 6.65 SEC
20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.15 SEC

For Comparisons;

Fitz:
T: 6'0" WT: 204LBS.
POSITION: DB
SCHOOL: Alabama
ARM LENGTH: 31 1/4"
HANDS: 9 3/8"

40 YARD DASH: 4.46 SEC
BENCH PRESS: 14 REPS
VERTICAL JUMP: 33.0 INCH
BROAD JUMP: 121.0 INCH

He probably does not have the ceiling of Fitz, but I think that he will be a good player.

And if we do not draft Chubb...I don't think that we necessarily will Draft another DE.

That would be a high risk endeavor imo.