DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus March for our lives, 2018...

J/C

Poll Shows most kids do not believe gun laws will prevent anything

are those the same polls that said hillary was gonna win?

Its the same poll that actually ask the kids what they think, instead of trying to indoctrinate them with falsehoods and offer false protections.

No, I will not stop. March for our lives is a gun control debate... so I will continue to make the point that while preventing school shootings is a noble cause, it decreases their chance of dying in their teens by a minimal amount.


If you can't take them serious then feel free to not respond... if you respond, I will assume you took it seriously.. and nothing in my post is a fallacy.. it just points out that even if these kids get every single thing they want out of their protest, damn near the same number of them will not make it to graduation.. they will just continue to die in much less dramatic ways that never make it to the national news....

I was actually hoping to get a response to your ideas on preventing school shootings rather than lumping to different subjects together yet again. But okay.

J/C ......

I think about kids these days, and many of them grow up in single parent homes, never having a constant, mature male presence in their lives. Many of these single parent homes have parents who are so young that they are locked in s cycle of poverty and where education is not valued like it should be. Even more are isolated by technology. Kids have moved away from the moral teachings of the Bible, and to a "if it feels good do it, and if you think it's right, then it is" morality. People are told that "no matter how much you have, it's not enough. Look at everything your neighbor has. You deserve more than they have."

This isn't rocket science. The 10 Commandments are a "pretty good" moral code, and people violate all of them on a daily basis. More than that, people are encouraged to do so.

Kids grow up thinking that knowing God is somehow wrong.

They abuse the name of the Lord as a matter of daily grammar.

They take no Sabbath rest, to be at peace with the Lord, and to listen to what He has to say.

Many curse their parents, and may not even know their fathers.

Jesus said that hating is the same as murder. There is a lot of hate these days.

Thou shall not commit adultery .... never mind. This one is blown to pieces, no matter which definition of the word you use.

Thou shall not steal .... but reclassifying theft as "borrowing" makes it fine .... and stealing from someone who has a lot is OK, because they can afford it. Also, you get bonus points if you steal from a business during a protest.

Do not bear false witness against your neighbor. Rumors and gossip run rampant, and I think these lead to a lot of problems for kids these days. Look at online bullying these days. It's a shame.

Do not covet your neighbors wife, house, car, property, etc. Advertising encourages us to covet. There is a commercial on right now ... where the voice-over describes this "perfect" person .... and how the person in the commercial likes them, but would like them more if they made more money than them. Geesh. Really? Envy, greed, covetousness, and jealousy are not only acceptable, but encouraged.

Obviously these trends have started with us adults, but they are carrying over, and blowing up all around our kids. These are all due, at least in large part, to the breakdown of the units that used to hold us together.

I don't know how things get repaired. Maybe it takes a complete breakdown of our society before we see how far we have fallen.

We def need to talk about the culture. There is one demographic that is behind most school shootings and I don't think that is unrelated to the culture that they grow up in.

I don't post here much, but ada boy.

The same children who want to take away others rights to protect themselves, will be the first to have sex out of wedlock and think nothing of ending the life that breathes inside of them.

My soul is afflected for them, because they had parents who did not love them enough, they being hypocrites themselves.

Prayers

I smell lots of deflection from the real issue here.

Yeah, this march should've been about the failure of multiple levels of law enforcement but instead they deflected it to be about gun control.

The problem is not guns, but rather people feeling driven to violence.

Guns are not the problem. In fact, they are rather far down the list of problems. The societal, spiritual, and familial problems are far, far more important for us to try to find solutions for.

Of course, it's easier, and more comfortable, to blame guns. That way the responsibility for violence goes to a thing, not a person, or people.

A couple of things.

You do not get moral character only by believing in religion.

We are not setting good example for the youth today. I could not watch 60 minutes last night. I could not support the person that is in office because of his vile statements that others chose to overlook. That leopard won’t change its spots.

Every generation thinks that the next generation is morally bankrupt. It’s a right of passage. Now we are led by those hippies.

The truth is harder. You can’t broad brush generations. There are good and bad people, and it’s easy to dismiss them. But you would be surprised as to how many good kids there are. I wonder which generation was responsible for the photoshop stunt.

I hope they get the movement they seek. It’s a difficult issue that needs to be addressed, and their voice is relevant.

I don't believe that I ever once said to believe in a religion. I said to follow the Bible. Religion is man made. The Bible is the Word of God.

What movement is it that these kids truly want? They flit from movement to movement .... following whatever is popular, and once it loses its popularity, the drop it and go on to the next thing. Many of them have no idea what it is, exactly. that they are protesting, or what they want to be the result. I mean, many want "an assault weapons ban" .... well, congratulations, they are already banned. There wan a defunct weapons bill that called semi-automatic weapons as "assault weapons", but that has died, and assault weapons, as classified by law, are already banned.

What happens if there are no guns? Does the problem of having disaffected youth finding violent "solutions" to their problems so away? We have seen people use any number of poison and explosive materials to carry out terror attacks, and we have even seen cars and trucks used as murder weapons.

We can only barricade our schools so much. We need to work on the root cause of these deadly problems.

Vambo and others that fall for everything they see online, Russia is manipulating you comrades:

No, Parkland survivor Emma González did not rip up the Constitution

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/theres-f...-190303807.html

I just can't let this one go. They don't want to take away your rights, they want to take away assault rifles. And they view this as their right to feel freaking SAFE AT SCHOOL!

I was a junior in high school when Columbine happened. I remember feeling scared when going to school. I remember walking through the halls and actually stepping on a magazine from a gun. I remember school going on lockdown that day. And the problem has only gotten worse. By doing nothing we're telling our kids that their lives and protection mean nothing to us. And that's BS.

Now on to the rest of your ridiculous post.

"will be the first to have sex out of wedlock"
Why does someone need to be married to have sex? Sex is such a huge part of a relationship. I think it's actually pretty dumb to get married to someone without every knowing if you're sexually compatible. Maybe you meant to say "Have children out of wedlock"? That would make more sense. But then I also say WHO CARES??? I had a child out of wedlock. And it was wonderful. I love my son. And I ended up marrying the mother too, because I loved her, not because we had a child out of wedlock. And I'm a step dad to her wonderful daughter. She had that one out of wed lock too. But didn't marry the guy because she didn't love him. But loves her daughter.

And you think all of that is terrible I bet. Which is dumb. Because there's two children who are part of a happy family. But oooohhhhh nooooo, it happened out of wedlock. Ridiculousness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And then there's this nugget:
"think nothing of ending the life that breathes inside of them."

Well the last I checked an embryo doesn't breathe. You care so much about ending lives with abortion, but you don't care a thing for that life once it's born. You're ok with those lives getting slaughtered at school, or concerts, or movie theaters.

RIDICULOUSNESS!!!

Negative Ghostrider!

The Bible is not the word of god. The last I checked it was written by a bunch of other people, talking about God, a long time after stuff supposedly happened.

You seem to like fiction a lot. Why don't you go read some non-fiction like a European history book and you'll discover how religions were created. You'll see that throughout history, rulers, kings, and countries have created religion as a tool to keep their people in line. It goes all the way back to polytheistic times. You want rain, pray to the rain god. You want good crops, lets sacrifice a virgin. It's no different later in history either. Whichever King or Queen was currently ruling England decided whether everyone had to be Protestant or Catholic. And people killed, burned, and flailed because of that decision.

And it's no different in current times. You want to win an election, pander to the religious masses.

A couple things if I may interject. And do not take my responses personally, these are just questions as to your thoughts, not an attack on you - a little discussion can go a long way.

While watching some of the march, I noticed more signs than I wanted to to of the like "Yes I want to take your guns" " we need to ban the 2nd amendment" etc etc. There is a very vocal group of people out there that want to ban the 2A outright. The number, I don't know. But to say that its not there is incorrect.

When people are allowed to have an assault rifle, they can take them then. an AR is not an assault rifle, you do know this right? And look in GA where legislation was proposed - the wording - was any semi automatic over 10 rounds. That is about 90% of the pistols in America. So you can say one thing, but the ACTIONS of left leaning legislators tell another.

I and others view what will make them safe at school is more guns. Why is their view more important than ours? Honest question. You see its speculative to think THEIR view is correct and the other view is incorrect. All I know is, that schools are already "gun free" and yet shootings are still happening. So how does banning a rifle prevent them form still happening. Its a logical question.

No one NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON has said we need to do nothing. We just don't think what YOU want to do is the right choice. Why is that because we disagree with your process to fix it, that's doing nothing? The left said we needed to ban guns from schools - we did. That didn't work. The left said we needed to have background checks - we do. The left said we need to limit fire rates and no full auto - we don't have them. There are over a 1,000 gun laws and yet the shootings are happening more on school campus. How can a logical person say "what WE ARE DOING is working".

Im not going to dabble into the abortion debate, as I think its a completely separate issue and has not merit here, however:

All of those places do not allow guns

Welcome! Fresh new voice

In a Christians opinion it is. In your opinion it's not. Everybody will find out the truth when they die.

That's a little late... just saying.

Well actually it's right there in the book. It would need to be written by god to be the word of god. It's a collection of stories about god. God didn't write it, or it'd be his autobiography I guess. It'd be called God's Bible, not the King James Version or whatever version you subscribe to.

And if it's the word of god, why is there so many versions?

I kinda have a problem with the whole abortion discussion.

Those that believe that Abortion is wrong are probably pretty religious, correct? I mean they seem to be mostly Evangelicals and the Moral right!

Abortion bad, Trump loving Putin good, trump having affairs with multiple women good.

I don't get it.. You either have morals or you don't. Just saying...

Now, I happen to know GM pretty well I guess and I think he's a straight up good man.. Period, so I'm not really talking specifically about him.

But in general, I don't understand how anyone can take a moral stand on one thing and completely accept another.

The Bible is the inspired Word of God. It was written through people, by God, much as we might write a letter with a pen, or computer. Technically the pen or computer creates the letter, but the words come from us.

A little history on me. I've always been a lefty. But I used to own guns. I thought as most of you did that gun control didn't work and was useless. I liked owning guns. I went to the range to shoot all the time. But then I had kids. And something changed. I sold my guns. Afterwards, I read an article about how when polled, most children knew exactly where the guns were hidden in their home, whether the parents had told them a gun existed in the home or not. Kids are sneaky creatures, and they find everything! As evidenced at Christmas time.

Anyway, flash forward about 6 years, and I'm sick and tired of seeing school shootings, mass shootings, etc... I hate going to a see a movie and have to spot those exits and be on high alert. I hate knowing that all my kids will soon be in school. One is already there. Scares the crap out of me. I do like that our schools have a Resource Police Officer, but he's only there during dropoffs and pickups.

I want to keep my children safe, and as I see it, that means banning guns as a whole. Lets get rid of them. So the only ones with them will be the Police, and the seedy underworld probably. But it's not the underworld that are doing these shootings. And don't tell me this method doesn't work. Other, smarter, countries have done it. And it works.

... But our politicians are bought and paid for by the NRA.

I know plenty of religious people who are good people as well. I agree that morals are morals, and I don't care where you get them from. That's why some of this stuff is difficult. I look at some of the people who voted for Trump, and I hate it. But I know they're still good people. So I just believe they're misguided

I completely understand your point Ytown, but have a serious question. What keeps anyone from writing something and saying it was inspired by God? Imagine a book like 'Mein Kampf' being touted as inspired by god.

The Bible is a good book IMHO because it has many lessons in good behavior and values. But we have also seen the words from this book twisted to fit views that are not so good. Are these views also inspired by God?

The Bible, like man, is less than perfect in many ways. A book inspired by God should be perfect in every way, no?

Although I am Atheist, I understand Christians who have a self described 'personal relationship' with God because they feel it so strongly that it seems real regardless of my views. Things like that I can agree seem to be inspired by God to those people. But a collection of stories from two thousand years ago should at least be skeptically approached as the literal word of god or literally inspired by god.

However as a base for teaching morals, goodness, and good behavior it is pretty solid. There are however many things that are not so great in there too. Also the interpretations can be wildly different from person to person, so where is the real truth? A book inspired by god should be understood as God meant it to be understood, no?

I don't want to devolve into a religious/atheist debate, just me talking outloud with lots of questions.

John Paul Stevens:
Repeal the Second Amendment

By John Paul Stevens March 27, 2018

Rarely in my lifetime have I seen the type of civic engagement schoolchildren and their supporters demonstrated in Washington and other major cities throughout the country this past Saturday. These demonstrations demand our respect. They reveal the broad public support for legislation to minimize the risk of mass killings of schoolchildren and others in our society.

That support is a clear sign to lawmakers to enact legislation prohibiting civilian ownership of semiautomatic weapons, increasing the minimum age to buy a gun from 18 to 21 years old, and establishing more comprehensive background checks on all purchasers of firearms. But the demonstrators should seek more effective and more lasting reform. They should demand a repeal of the Second Amendment.

Concern that a national standing army might pose a threat to the security of the separate states led to the adoption of that amendment, which provides that “a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” Today that concern is a relic of the 18th century.

For over 200 years after the adoption of the Second Amendment, it was uniformly understood as not placing any limit on either federal or state authority to enact gun control legislation. In 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously held that Congress could prohibit the possession of a sawed-off shotgun because that weapon had no reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a “well regulated militia.”

During the years when Warren Burger was our chief justice, from 1969 to 1986, no judge, federal or state, as far as I am aware, expressed any doubt as to the limited coverage of that amendment. When organizations like the National Rifle Association disagreed with that position and began their campaign claiming that federal regulation of firearms curtailed Second Amendment rights, Chief Justice Burger publicly characterized the N.R.A. as perpetrating “one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”

In 2008, the Supreme Court overturned Chief Justice Burger’s and others’ long-settled understanding of the Second Amendment’s limited reach by ruling, in District of Columbia v. Heller, that there was an individual right to bear arms. I was among the four dissenters.

That decision — which I remain convinced was wrong and certainly was debatable — has provided the N.R.A. with a propaganda weapon of immense power. Overturning that decision via a constitutional amendment to get rid of the Second Amendment would be simple and would do more to weaken the N.R.A.’s ability to stymie legislative debate and block constructive gun control legislation than any other available option.

That simple but dramatic action would move Saturday’s marchers closer to their objective than any other possible reform. It would eliminate the only legal rule that protects sellers of firearms in the United States — unlike every other market in the world. It would make our schoolchildren safer than they have been since 2008 and honor the memories of the many, indeed far too many, victims of recent gun violence.

John Paul Stevens is a retired associate justice of the United States Supreme Court.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/27/op...pgtype=Homepage

This guy is a retired Republican justice.

Yea, sure it would. They have trouble getting the support and the votes to make larger magazines illegal and he thinks throwing out the second amendment, in its entirety, would be "simple"?

They also act like repealing the 2nd Amendment will automatically make things better.

Do they not know history? Anyone ever hear of the 18th Amendment? It's the only other time that they made an amendment to "take away" a right. And that turned out so well, that they made the 21st Amendment just to repeal that one.

so you agree you want to ban guns . which you said you didn't want to do. . . .

so again my point is, why is this the correct way? every law those have created have failed, have they not? The laws and bans have not reduced school shootings, they have increased.

I have, and it is not. It is not a fully automatic weapon, and its not used by ANY military in the world. Single shot, single bullet.

which is illegal to do!! That's the point. Banning it will not make this go away now will it? If its already illegal to make it full auto, how can he make it full auto? that completely contradicts your argument, do you not see that?


once again, it is a rifle. Why do you NEED to voice your opinion on a message board? You don't. However you have been given that right, haven't you?

the NRA donates a fraction of what other groups donate, say like planned parenthood. so your talking point is futile here, and not back by any facts. The NRA is an organization made up of LEGAL gun owners, WE ARE THE NRA. THE people. and the people have a right to try to dictate whatever they want - you have no problem with left groups doing it, but because its an organization you dislike, its evil? Funny how that works for you huh?

It absolutely doesn't, but it is most certainly is a deterrent. Why do we place sentences on people who break the law? As a deterrent from doing so. A mass shooters 1 GOAL is to kill as many as he can, do we agree? If you have two school sitting next to each other, one with armed guards and one without, which school is the shooter going to walk into?

ahhhhh so you do want to ban guns, when you just blatantly in another post said you didn't. You have now been proven I am sorry, to be dishonest. FYI, those countries that banned guns, shootings were on the downside before they banned them, so the stats are not conclusive as you would think. Although sexual assaults in those countries have skyrocketed since.

Is the guy shooting up a school not a criminal? Really man....

You obviously do not know much about your history - as this talking point has been debunked in other threads, look for nelson's reply to it.

You are COMPLETELY CORRECT!

Back then 0 gun laws, 0 school shootings - now thousands of gun laws, many school shootings.

See how uninformed generalizations work?

The left doesn't want us to protect our kids with armed guards, the cities who are left controlled are rampant with homeless-ness and people dying in the streets like 3rd world countries


In a responsible gun owners home, they teach their kids about firearm safety and how to handle a weapon, they do not need to "hide" their weapons.

You realize whats in common with all these shootings? They are bullied, beaten, and picked on teens. Every one of them. The all have mental disorders and issues, AND they all should have been prevented by a LAW that was already on the books, but were not. So if the laws already put in place, are not working, why will more?

Do you drive? Do you have a cell phone? Do you have pets? All of these are statistically more dangerous to them than a mass shooter, but for some reason you don't hold rallies against any of them.

ahhh, there it is again. so you did intentionally LIE earlier to everyone on this board. Well I take back the personal things, you sir, have lost all credibility as a poster and as a human being for being dishonest on your intentions to start.

I am sure that every Black man in America is comfortable with JUST the police having guns huh? How did that work out for the jews? Cubans? etc.?

I will tell you it doesn't work, because it hasn't worked, ever in history. You name Australia? an island isolated by the rest of the world? What about the countries that require gun ownership, that have the least amount of gun related crimes in the world? you want to leave those countries out of your argument I bet.

and by all means, move there. In the US you have the right to do so. No one is stopping you. This country has lived for over 200+ years with the bill of rights, I am sure it will survive if you disagree with it.

You sir, have now shown your true colors as someone who lies, and wants to dictate based on SOLEY your personal feelings, and infringe on the rights of others no matter the cost. We have a word for that .......

Wow ..now that was just a bunch of twisted up BS. LOL

And Trump and his supporters think repealing the 1st Amendment will automatically make things better.

J/C

Even if you do not agree with the argument that “more guns, less crime” you cannot argue with the truth that more guns has not resulted in more crime. If crime rates remain flat or improve while gun ownership and carry increases, then there is no justification for gun control.

Freedom is the standard in America. The burden of proof is on you to prove that gun control works (something no study ever has been able to prove – as gun control has never been shown to cause a reduction in crime, violence, or homicide).

Correlation does not prove causation, but a lack of correlation does disprove causation.

When there are more guns but less crime, that does not mean that more guns are the cause of less crime, but it does prove that more guns does not cause more crime.

He might have been a Registered Republican in 1975, but when asked in 2007 he declined to answer. Filing out a paper saying he is a Republican is one thing....His actions speak otherwise....this dude was as left as they come while sitting on the bench...and you know that.

I certainly agree with you about the break down of the family unit. The only thing I find ironic about people blaming these things on school shootings is simply this.......

The United states doesn't live in a vacuum. All of those same issues exist in most of the world. Certainly in Europe and most of the free world. Yet the mass school shootings that we have are non existent there. So while what you have described is a sad situation, if those issues were the root of the problem, school shooting would be far more even on a global scale, but they're not.

I've also seen many blame bullying. And yes, it may be a part of the reason. But gay students and girls are probably the most two bulled groups in our schools. Yet from everything we've garnered, these two groups don't seem to be a contributing factor in mass school shootings.

So while I don't really have the answer as to the cause so much, I do know many of the reasons people are giving as to the root cause of this just don't add up.

All of the reasons you mentioned are global. Yet these mass school shootings are not.

But it is. Because every shooter has had instances of being bullied to the point of no return mentally.

Look an Jonathan Martin, someone who has just about anything he could ask for, making threats against a HS years later after going there.

As far as the gay/lesbian bullying. This was certainly true in the past, however I can tell you with certainty it is not anymore. If a gay/lesbian kid gets bullied, the bully is reprimanded immediately and lawsuits are filed (which is a good thing, no kid should be bullied), but my point is - the schools are worried about lawsuits when it comes to that and they shut it down instantly. When the dorky or fat kid get bullied, not so much. The schools could care less.

But you are right, its on singular issue. There is not a one size fits all to it. Bullying, lack of discipline, lack of empathy, the constant need for instant gratification of our culture, participation trophies, lack of respect for one another, lack of parenting, an overall attack on family values and the family unit, the list can go on.

the issue I have, is that GUNS are not even a blimp on the radar compared to that list as to why these are happening. We have an entire generation of kids who are now parents - I say this because the vast majority of people MY AGE (32ish) never grew up, as their parents never made them. Now they have kids and they are doubling down on that philosophy.

ill have to check out the video later, I cant watch videos on my work pc.

I guess the actual bottom line to my post was that all of these things happen on a global basis. They're not isolated to the United States. Bullying, the break down of the family unit, and everything else that gets mentioned as reasons why this happens is going on all over the world.

Yet our nation seems to be the only one that has all of these mass shooter situation that repeatedly happen in our schools. I mean you do agree that bullying is something that happens around the globe, right?

I mean I understand why people come up with reasons why it's happening. It makes sense on the surface. But why do people act like it's islolated to the United states? Kids are kids around the globe. These same situations go on everywhere. Mass school shootings don't.