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I think our approach is very similar. From a "purely emotional standpoint" I'm upset and angered that he's not in camp. I mean what Browns fan wouldn't be? But on a personal note,I really,much like you,hear conflicting stories and information.In reality,I don't know ALL the "facts" that surround these negotiations to make any real hypothesis that I feel would hold water.And I do find a few of the "FO suggestions" just a little fishy. ie.......Look at everybody we've signed,so we must be fair? Well this is "this FO" third draft and out of that,they've had four "fist round selections". Two of which were Braylon and Quinn. They can talk about "signing FA's" untill the cows come home,but that's a totaly seperate issue based on bidding against other teams. Out of "four first round selections" this is their "second holdout". So IMO it's a 50/50 split,not a grand slam. But they too have a job to do. Which is getting "the best deal for the team". Let's face it,the average career for an NFL player isn't all that long. So I don't blame Brady for getting the best deal for himself as well. As in most negotiations,each has their own agenda and it is incumbant that they both work to achieve their goals. Usually neither side is totaly blameless nor innocent in holdouts. I just find it very odd how so many can "stand behind Tucker" while at the same time "lambasting Brady". It seems like quite a double standard to me. Things we "do know as facts" about Tucker is that the NFL said he was guilty and suspended him four games,and he has said he has no plans to appeal the suspension. The other case,is a kid trying to get the best deal he can for himself in his contract. No rules or suspensions have been handed out. I guess I just see it as pure bias and raw emotion,rather than using sound logic to arrive at such conclusions. I don't begrudge anyone for feeling however they decide to feel on the matter,but for the life of me,this type of thing is coming from quite a few people I certainly never would have expected it from. So no,I'm not upholding Brady. I'm not upholding the FO. Each has their objectives and peramiters. Each is trying to look out for "their respective best interests". It's purely business from both ends on this one. Now AFTER we see the signed contract and AFTER we know what has been going on? I might see it differently,who knows? But everything,or at least the vast majority of it,is no more than "media posturing" from both sides. With very little "factual information" as to what's REALLY going on included. I won't be making any "rush to judgement" either way based on things like that.  JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I just find it very odd how so many can "stand behind Tucker" while at the same time "lambasting Brady". It seems like quite a double standard to me. Things we "do know as facts" about Tucker is that the NFL said he was guilty and suspended him four games,and he has said he has no plans to appeal the suspension.
I'll just address the Tucker/Brady comparison and leave the Brady contract alone.
Tucker is guilty. He confessed.
The difference, to me anyway, is that Tucker is a Cleveland Brown who has played his guts out for the team. Brady, on the other hand, is not a Cleveland Brown, (and it wouldn't be unpresidented if he never became one), who has not earned any respect as of yet from the fans.
That makes a difference to me. It may also for some others.
I think it's human nature that we're all more likely to stand behind "family" than the guy who doesn't seem sure he really wants to marry our cousin.
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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J/C Can we please not make this another Quinn thread? Give it a rest already. 
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...couple days old but didn't see it in the thread. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txbrownstucker&prov=st&type=lgnsTucker sorry for using banned substance August 4, 2007 CLEVELAND (TICKER) -- Cleveland Browns offensive lineman Ryan Tucker has admitted he was wrong to knowingly take a banned substance to speed his comeback from a layoff. Tucker was on Friday handed a four-game suspension by the NFL for the offence, a ban Tucker already knew was coming. He admitted to using the substance while making his comeback from what the team said was a mental disorder. "I didn't intend to compromise the integrity of the NFL and my team," Tucker said in the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "I want to apologize to the fans and my family. It's been a long road. I was pretty down and out last year. In my attempt to come back, I took a banned substance. I am going to fulfill this punishment and get it behind me." Tucker has not spoken about what the mental issue was that caused him to miss time last year. "I'm not going to get into all the details, but I was down and out last year," he said. "There was a point in time when I didn't know if playing again was a possibility. The bottom line is I'm healthy now, my family's healthy and happy, and people are behind me here." Now facing another challenge to get his career back on track, Tucker, 32, said he was up to meeting it. "Absolutely," he said. "Being a human being in this world, everybody faces countless obstacles. "Somebody asked me the other day if all this stuff's behind me. I kind of had to laugh. There's nothing funny about it, believe me. My family's suffered more than anybody about this stuff. People are going to make their own assumptions about this whole thing. The bottom line is I did take a banned substance and I'm suspended." Tucker's suspension will run from September 1 to October 1, and will force him to miss games against Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Baltimore and Oakland. It will cost him $600,000 in lost salary. The Browns are likely to use Kevin Shaffer at right tackle in place of Tucker, while Kelly Butler is also in the mix with first-round draft pick Joe Thomas not certain to start at left tackle.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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The difference, to me anyway, is that Tucker is a Cleveland Brown who has played his guts out for the team.
Butch, is that you?
Sorry to interject... 
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Tucker is guilty. He confessed.
So he is "actualy guilty" of something,correct? Now what exactly is it the other one is "guilty of"? Not trying to be arguementative. But that is where "my confusion" lies.
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The difference, to me anyway, is that Tucker is a Cleveland Brown who has played his guts out for the team. Brady, on the other hand, is not a Cleveland Brown, (and it wouldn't be unpresidented if he never became one), who has not earned any respect as of yet from the fans.
Firstly not TOTALLY "unprecidented",but would you be so kind as to state "the likelihood" of that?
And other than try to let his agent "negotiate a contract" exactly what has he done to "earn anyone's disrespect"? Work out a business deal? Once again,I don't see the logic here.
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That makes a difference to me. It may also for some others.
So lambasting one party who has "broken NO rule" (not saying you per say is one who've done it) is somehow logical because he's a "future Brown"?
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I think it's human nature that we're all more likely to stand behind "family" than the guy who doesn't seem sure he really wants to marry our cousin.
Well ya see,at the time that "family member" became family,he was rewarded quite well for it. He didn't marry your cousin "on the cheap".
And I have "no doubt" the other one wants to be "in the family too". He just doesn't want "the rest of the family" dictating his wedding plans.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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All I know is I gave my opinion...instead of debating it you chose to attack me personally regarding my posting edicate and continuity. Usually that means I just hit a home run and one would tend to then skirt the issues and common sense and decide to go to the "Whisper" Campaign to discredit and say enough slanderist remarks that soon enough it would stick. One quotes that I claim BQ is Satan (and actually put it in quotations  ) then the other states it as fact.
I'm more objective than you think.
BQ has chosen to tred dangerous waters. You all act like its a normal ordeal. Everything I stated got stated by Savage a couple days after I did...Why, cause its true and its common sense.
FACT : We have never screwed around with contracts to young potential Stars! But we decided to do so now  I've been saying that all week and Savage came out with the same thing. Actually he has been criticized in the past for giving too much. To sit there you and Diam and imply that we don't know squat and the FO could be jacking up BQ on purpose is so REDICULOUS...as opposed to an Agent being overly greedy especially one with Condon's reputation.
I just hope we set a future status that we don't touch any clients of Condon's regardless who they are.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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You didn't "hit home" with me. I find the whole thing realtively amusing. He will be signed,bottom line. He will end up here in a Browns uniform,bottom line.Leon held out longer than BQ has,bottom line. So two out of Phil's four first round picks have held out,bottom line. Other QB's that dropped and chosen "2nd or 3rd" in drafts have gottem some great incentive packages,bottom line. Since this is the second hold out of four first round picks he's made and Leons was even longer,not only is your assertion of "never happenned" wrong,hell this makes it 50% of the time with his first round picks,bottom line. Dangerous waters? Oh let the melodrama role. Because at the end of the day,BQ will be a Brown. And if he even plays as an "above average NFL starter" we will have gotten a hell of a deal. With eight mil. in garunteed bonuses and the rest in incentives,even cutting him after year three if he doesn't pan out won't be a huge hit,bottom line. So everything else is just hot air and emotions. I'm not trying to "asassinate your character". I juist find this whole thing funnier than hell and thought you would be far more level headed on this situation. Emotions rule the day on this topic,little else. I just "assumed" you wouldn't get sucked up in it all. I was wrong. You'll have that from time to time. Please remove that chip from your shoulder. Because if you were 25 years old,I would have expected such a reaction.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Tucker basically knows he's used up and has been getting an extra push to hang on. The ??? is how long has this been going on, and how much of Tuck's play has been the roids or him?? I will not be suprised if he never plays another down for the Browns if KS can handle RT..............not becuase of the infraction, but because he's old, and he needed help to make it back from the past injuries. He's destined for more injuries folks at 32 (the body will begin to break down), and if he needs more "help" next time he's out for a year and might not get reinstated (ask Odell...lol). I don't know if you can continue to pay an aging veteran that kind of money and that kind of risk............if KS proves to be a viable alternitive. KS being the viable alternitive is the kicker though...lol.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Can anyone remember the interview Tucker had two years ago or was it last year when asked about roids he said he knew where he coyuld get 'em if he wanted to, and he could see why some used them?
I believe it either when Merriman got caught or when someone else got caught.
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I thought about that interview myself. I don't know how long this has been going on, but I do know it doesn't make since to count on him........unless you have to. The best case scenerio is to have KS play RT admirably, and cut Tucker at season's end. It just doesn't make since to keep a 33 yr old (at that time) guy with past injury history, and a step away from the year band.......if you don't have to. Man I hope Kevin can be a somewhat decent RT.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Well his main competition will be Kelly Butler..
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Quote:
Tucker basically knows he's used up and has been getting an extra push to hang on. The ??? is how long has this been going on, and how much of Tuck's play has been the roids or him?? I will not be suprised if he never plays another down for the Browns if KS can handle RT..............not becuase of the infraction, but because he's old, and he needed help to make it back from the past injuries. He's destined for more injuries folks at 32 (the body will begin to break down), and if he needs more "help" next time he's out for a year and might not get reinstated (ask Odell...lol). I don't know if you can continue to pay an aging veteran that kind of money and that kind of risk............if KS proves to be a viable alternitive. KS being the viable alternitive is the kicker though...lol.
willie...can't say I disagree with anything above, it could all be on the mark.
This is two strikes on Tucker now with the first being his sudden mental problems of last season. The Browns nor Tucker know when those problems might reoccur therefore it's hard to count on Tucker.
Dependability and age are beginning to be a concern. It would be great if the Browns could have depended on Tucker so they might have dealt Shaffer, but it now looks like the Browns need to hang on to Shaffer.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Mac it wasn't the mental illness but the meds that affected him..they were too strong.
He had to change the medication..
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Well his main competition will be Kelly Butler..
NOOOOOOOOOO...It's that time folks...
Time to cut the strings...Not from the roids either...
There's a new kid in town...A ROCK SOLID ONE...
Tucker needs RELEASED...Due to AGE and Salary...Thomas is at LT forever...Shaffer at RT...Butler is his backside and Shaffer's Thomas's...
Just Do It Phil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Browns!!!
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One other option is if a guard steps up....Steiny can back up either tackle spots.
We have options with this team.
I wouldn't cut tuck unless it means cutting a kid who shines over the next few weeks.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I agree Peen.. I'm really hoping that Matua gets some looks and time on the field this preseason..
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going out for depression and now steriods...i wouldn't be suprised if they cut him...especially at his salary
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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j/c ...just the other day / week I was reading on here how great Tucker was at his position...and now we want to flat out cut him. Now, I don't think he's as good as many people think (or thought, apparently)...but I certainly don't want to be cutting our starting RT...we don't even have an idea of how well Shaefer can play the position. We KNOW how bad the backups were last year.
AL 29 76 14 R_K
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I really doubt we will cut Tuck. He has been our best durable linemen for years. He has been with us for some of the worst times. The man made one stupid mistake its not like hes denying it or is getting himself into numerous situations involving trouble. We finally have decent depth with him on our roster. Cutting him would be a mistake especially with the luck we have with injuries.
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Peen - you're the one who put the quote about a coin flip on this thread not me...I'm pretty sure I'm in the correct thread. Its about Tucker right not a QB coin flip. I didn't bring the quote here??? Why say I'm in the wrong thread posting that...you did...lol or am I going crazy
Not to respond for peen, (and so late in the game) but did you read the thread before you posted this??????
This part was already explained SEVERAL HOURS prior to your post. As in nearly a day.
Why can't people read before they respond??????????
This place just gets better and better....... 
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Quote:
This place just gets better and better.......
it would be better with anothe SEC fan
We got Georgia (check sig), Florida (Ballpeen), and Kentucky (Topdawg16)...
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Quote:
Quote:
This place just gets better and better.......
it would be better with anothe SEC fan
We got Georgia (check sig), Florida (Ballpeen), and Kentucky (Topdawg16)...
Your sig sucks......Florida sucks....and the Wildcats suck.
My God can we get to football season already??????
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Maybe at least then somebody could find something "legit" to complain about!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Your sig sucks......Florida sucks....and the Wildcats suck.
My God can we get to football season already??????
ur entitled to ur opinion..
all i have to say is this though...
"Its greattttt... to beee.. a Georgiaaa Bullldoggggg"
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Maybe at least then somebody could find something "legit" to complain about!
ha that will be the day...
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Tucker needs RELEASED...Due to AGE and Salary...Thomas is at LT forever...Shaffer at RT...Butler is his backside and Shaffer's Thomas's...
Normally I would respond because of the talent level of the starter..but this time I won't..
The Browns have to see how KS plays at RT..IT COULD BE HE'S NOT SUITED for it..it could be he is..right now we don't know..
If he is..it's great..because Butler will back him up..
Tucker could be kept for depth for the remaining of the year and U know one linemen always goes down..
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"but did you read the thread before you posted this?"
I must of skimmed a lot...but I was being told by Peen that I made that quote??? and was in the wrong thread...or I was in the wrong thread which basically confused me considering that quote was about the QB situation.
When I'm away a lot or make a long post which sort of knocks out my Where I left off status on threads...I don't read all the posts.
How ya been...you sound crochety lately. Gene got in the Hall that was great - I know he's a favorite of yours...like all old time Browns fans - how can Gene Hickerson not be a favorite. I was alway Jim Brown when I carried but when another did - I was Gene Hickerson 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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All Pro
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As posted by HotBYoungTurks.......We got Georgia (check sig), Florida (Ballpeen), and Kentucky (Topdawg16)...
Deepsouth (Ms.State Bulldogs) dawg.
SEC rules!!!!!!
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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As posted by HotBYoungTurks.......We got Georgia (check sig), Florida (Ballpeen), and Kentucky (Topdawg16)...
Deepsouth (Ms.State Bulldogs) dawg.
SEC rules!!!!!!
BIG 10 all the way!
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All Pro
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Big 10!!!!!!!!!!
Take a fast look at preseason ranking. 3 big ten teams in the top ten.
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Big 10!!!!!!!!!!
Take a fast look at preseason ranking. 3 big ten teams in the top ten.
and???
we saw last year how Big 10 did against SEC... the gators took a big bite out of them buckeyes..
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TURK...
OSU got stomped, but...
Arkansas 14 vs. Wisconsin 17
Tennessee 10 vs. Penn State 20
Browns fans are born with it...
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but the best of the best... the suppose champions of the Big 10 and champions of the SEC... thats what counts
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i'll remember that the next time a 3rd/4th-in-the-SEC Georgia beats a Big10 team...that won't count...
Browns fans are born with it...
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Will Georgia get to the 3rd/4th best SEC team anytime soon?? ;-)
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Will Georgia get to the 3rd/4th best SEC team anytime soon?? ;-)
lol.. funny..
if Georgia beats Florida this year, Georgia will be the SEC champs.. thats normally how it works every year...
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sorry TURK, it's pretty obvious from watching games the last few years that they aren't as good as Florida, LSU, or Auburn...you're in that Tennessee/Arkansas/soon-to-be-Alabama tier...and just to make you happy, i'll say you're at the top of that list...
Browns fans are born with it...
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Quote:
Quote:
Will Georgia get to the 3rd/4th best SEC team anytime soon?? ;-)
lol.. funny..
if Georgia beats Florida this year, Georgia will be the SEC champs.. thats normally how it works every year...
I'm sure OSU would have LOVED that game! And would LOVE it THIS year!!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Ryan Tucker Suspended 4 games
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