DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trump announces Tariffs

speaking of fords:

Trump administration mulls stiffer rules for imported cars

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump...6--finance.html

seeing as Ford imports a lot of their cars here to the US, do they also count?

I have no clue. I can however tells you years ago many of the people were on the buy american kick they were buying Ford Crown Vic's and patting themselves on the back (The car was built in America but 80 percent of its parts were built over seas and shipped to America, while the Honda they avoided because it was a import was not only Built in America, but most of it's parts were as well.

Yea, my ATS is assembled in Lansing, the XTS in Ontario. But the supply chain? No idea. I know the XTS engine is made in the USA and then shipped to Canada.

All I know is the ATS is fun to drive and the XTS is large and comfortable

and thats the thing bro.

made in america isn't the same as assembled in America.

thats why i dont bother with the whole "buy american" nonsense.

for what? ill buy whatever is the superior product.

if i'm looking for a Truck, i buy Ram. if i'm looking for a sports car, it's euro all the way.

if im looking for a car that will auto-drive me over a ledge, ill buy tesla.

It's almost like that is the whole point of capitalism. It dismays me that for such a solid economic plan that so many rules must be applied for it to work perfectly.

China's Xi promises to cut auto import tariff

China's President Xi Jinping appeared to strike a conciliatory tone during a speech Tuesday where he promised to cut China's auto import tariffs and ease restrictions on foreign ownership in its auto industry as tensions play out with Washington over tariffs.

Xi made no direct mention of the dispute with President Donald Trump but pledged to open China's markets further and improve conditions for foreign companies.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/04/10/...washington.html


Once again, Trump getting it done for America!

You might want to pull that thumb back in... Xi and the CCP are very well known for saying one thing in the open, and doing something quite different in the background...

Sounds just like the Trump White house.

How long can we last?’ Trump’s tariffs hit home in the U.S.
Eduardo Porter – The New York Times
a day ago

CP Industries just got an expensive lesson in the unintended consequences of protectionism.

Based in McKeesport, Pennsylvania, the company makes seamless vessels to store gases at high pressure — steel cylinders of up to 6 tons that it sells to the likes of the Navy, NASA and T.Boone Pickens’s Clean Energy. It has received the first bill from the 25 percent tariff that President Donald Trump placed on steel from China and a few other countries: $178,703.09 assessed on a steel-pipe shipment scheduled to arrive at the Port of Philadelphia on Thursday.

That’s equivalent to about two weeks’ payroll. Overall, tariffs on steel pipe the company has ordered from China — some already on its way across the Pacific — will add more than half a million dollars to raw-material costs over six months alone.

“How long can we last?” mused Michael Larsen, the company’s chief executive. “I don’t know. We could go down relatively fast.”

The tariff will add about 10 percent to the cost of CP Industries’ cylinders, which can sell for up to $35,000. And foreign rivals are already swooping in to lure away some of the company’s biggest clients. “We haven’t lost a big one yet, but the discussion over who is going to pay for the tariffs has started,” Larsen told me.

What most sticks in the executive’s craw is that he will probably end up losing business to the company’s main rival in China, Enric Gas Equipment Co. of Shijiazhuang, which also makes jumbo vessels. Noting that Enric’s goods are imported under a classification not subject to the tariff, a CP Industries news release added, “It is impossible for CPI to compete with its Chinese competitor on this basis.”

This is what economists mean when they warn about the costs of protectionist policies. A tariff to protect one industry amounts to a tax on all of its customers. The steel tariffs tax the nation’s more high-tech manufacturing — carmakers, aerospace companies, makers of vessels to store hydrogen for use in fuel cells — to pay for a ring of protection around an aging industry that makes a raw material.

As Lawrence H. Summers, a top economic adviser to Presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, quipped at a conference in China a couple of weeks ago, the trade moves amount to “a bit of a ‘Stop, or I’ll shoot myself in the foot’ kind of strategy.”

None of this is unknown to Trump’s trade advisers, by the way. Governments Democratic and Republican have repeatedly granted protection to the U.S. steel industry since the 1960s, when foreign producers started making inroads into the United States.

In 1969, President Richard M. Nixon imposed “voluntary restraint” agreements on exporters from Japan and Europe. About a decade later the Carter administration established a system that allowed some steel imports as long as they were sold above a certain price.

President Ronald Reagan established a limited pool of imports that it apportioned among foreign producers. The first President George Bush renewed it. Clinton deployed diplomacy and anti-dumping measures to protect U.S. steelmakers. And in 2002 President George W. Bush put a new ring of “safeguards” around steel that lasted 20 months, until the World Trade Organization ruled them illegal.

They mostly shrugged off the repercussions for the many manufacturing companies that relied on steel. But in 2003, the U.S. International Trade Commission surveyed manufacturers about the effects. Not only did the tariffs imposed by the Bush administration put many U.S. companies at a competitive disadvantage, but companies also reacted in ways that did the American economy no good.

Almost 500 steel consumers responded to at least some of the questions asked by the commission. About half of respondents reported paying higher prices. And roughly half reported problems procuring steel of the quality and quantity they needed. Over a third reported delayed deliveries; 132 reported steel shortages. About 1 in 6 said these problems had reduced sales, and 1 in 3 said they had cut into their profitability. A total of 82 companies — including 11 makers of auto parts, nine welded-pipe producers and five makers of fasteners — said they had lost sales to foreign competitors because of the higher cost of steel.

Some steel consumers shifted from importing steel to importing assembled steel parts that were not subject to the new tariffs. York International — which makes air-conditioning systems, furnaces and the like — reported importing steel assemblies and complete products from overseas. The auto-part maker Metaldyne simply moved some of its operations to South Korea, where it could obtain cheaper steel.

Larsen is sympathetic to the plight of U.S. steel companies. Though it is owned today by Everest Kanto Cylinder based in Mumbai, India, CP Industries emerged as an independent company in a 1989 spinoff from U.S. Steel. And still, whatever old loyalties persist, it makes little sense to force the company to obtain its steel domestically. For starters, no company in the United States produces pipes big enough to make its trademark 6-ton containers.

The company estimated it could get only a fifth of the steel pipe it needed domestically, from only one U.S. firm. Domestic pipe is, moreover, delivered in random lengths and requires additional milling, cutting and testing, raising processing costs by about 16 percent. And Chinese pipes are much cheaper, the company added: Pipes from China delivered in Philadelphia cost $1,680 per metric ton, while U.S. Steel is charging $2,728 per metric ton at its works in Lorain, Ohio. A 25 percent tariff will not close the gap.

CP Industries isn’t simply going to let itself be pushed out of business. An option to consider is importing German steel — which so far has been exempted from the protectionist fusillade. But it will take time to shift suppliers. And German steel will be more expensive.

Of course, there is lobbying. CP Industries has requested a waiver from the tariffs, and it is working to get Pennsylvania’s congressional delegation on its side. Something else it could do is move part or all of the manufacturing process overseas to avoid the steel tariffs.

“We have a whole list of ideas that we could execute,” Larsen told me. “But nothing we do will be more efficient than what we are doing now. And it will mean less value added in the United States.”

Larsen is not, by the way, an evangelist for free trade at all costs. Six years ago, when he was at Taylor-Wharton International, a manufacturer of smaller vessels for high-pressure gas, he teamed up with Norris Cylinder to bring an anti-dumping case against Chinese rivals and won. The government imposed an anti-dumping duty on Chinese imports to level the playing field.

He would love to try that approach against his new Chinese competitors. But Trump nipped the strategy in the bud: Dumping — selling below cost to drive rivals out of business and gain market share — is not necessary when you are suddenly granted a 10 percent cost advantage. That’s roughly the kind of edge that the steel tariffs gave the makers of high-pressure gas vessels in China.

“As it stands today,” Larsen lamented, “they cannot be overcome.”

__________________________________

All Trump bashing/loving aside, this tariff stuff is getting real.. and it's not on a good path. To be direct, Trump is playing chicken with our economy and we are all just sitting in the car hoping to God somebody bails out.

Ya ... thats whats going on here ... ...

This NEEDED to be done YEARS AGO ...

Sometimes life gets messy ... get used to it ... theres going to be plenty of messes as we sort through this ...

Now go back to running around like your hairs on fire and life as we know it is about to end ...

this is coming from the same guy who is scared of non-white people in times square.

Says the man whose war cry is ...

CHEAP FRUIT over DEAD AMERICANS!!!!

that is a horrible war cry.

Its your war cry ... not mine ...

I’m gonna be in Times Square in two weeks ...

I’ll take some pics of me with some folks that dont look like me just for u ... ...

it most certainly isn't.

i'm sure you'll be too scared. diversity is frightening to a trump supporter.

Great post DC. It's unfortunate that we are forcing winners and losers for the american people by an administration that wants to have it both ways.

Come join me ... u can watch and see ...

We're all watching to see right now. I'm not sure how this will all play out. I think people are jumping the gun on both sides right now.

What does that even mean? .. an admin that is picking and choosing winners and losers that WANTS IT BOTH WAYS? ..

What does wanting it both ways mean?

Business hates uncertainty Pit.. the stock market hates it, the construction market hates it.. once something settles in business will adjust and learn to survive and protect their best interest (not yours, theirs).. but this fear of not knowing what the end game is will be rough.

I agree, it is pretty vague. It also gives the implication that this administration was capable of picking who would win and who wouldn't... I don't think they thought that deep into it.

I think we have a President who went off half-cocked and wanted to make a grand show as being tough against China and he wanted to make a grand show of protecting his blue collar base... I'm not sure he thought 2 months down the road, let alone 10 years down the road of what the ripple effect of his actions might be.

In the end, it's probably good that the President managed to avoid the military, I doubt they would have appreciated his style of "Ready, Fire, Aim."

I just wish they would quit making threats and take whatever action that's coming.

I mean when the president is making threats against Russia via Twitter I think we should all feel uncertain. And no, that's not a good thing.

I'm just not sure what else anyone expected when he was elected.

I disagree ... say what u want ... THE MAN KNOWS BUSINESS ... and hes always a bunch of moves on the board ahead of us ...

He picked these things for a reason ... and IMO the main goal right now hasn’t even been touched on ... INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY ...

This NEEDED to happen ... not even sure how much this is going to help LONG TERM with whats looming in the not to distant future ... but SHORT TERM this was a MUST ...

There will be some losers right here in this country ... thats just the reality of business in this situation ... thats not trumps fault ... this started with Regan and every president since has dug the hole deeper ...

What i am interested in ... is he/we going to be able to find ALTERNATIVE MARKETS for those in this country that get hurt ...

Well we can look at one example so far..... Coal.

In that instance he just pretended a dying industry would suddenly return because well..... TRUMP! lol

You have more faith than I do my friend. I hope he's right... but "knowing business" from the real estate development side where you are dealing with other business people seems to me to be vastly different than negotiations with and against foreign nations that will impact many many areas of the economy and have ripple effects far beyond what you anticipated.

Anytime a tariff is created, you are setting winners and losers at the govt level. In the case of these steel tariffs, the intention is the USA would be the winners, and China would be the losers. There might be other countries involved in the losers bracket, but that has been the messaging. The message was that China would be a national security threat to our steel, so we have to tariff it to encourage local production. I'll set aside my disagreement on the messaging for now, and stick to your questions.

The collateral damage is starting to show that we are hurting businesses that rely on raw steel as a means of production here in the United States. These businesses predominantly employ workers in states that went for Trump. So for me, the President wants it both ways: To appear strong on tariffs, while showing the heartland that he will bring their jobs back. Historical evidence demonstrates that these micro-targeted tariffs on specific industries have long reaching effects, and in the case of Steel in the US, multiple times where it was an economic loser for us to do so. It's one thing to say the cost of campbells soup will go up a quarter, or a car will go up a few hundred bucks. It's another to tell someone that their job is being moved to China because it's cheaper to source the raw material there and create it, and then resell the refined material back into the US (where it is no longer under tariff!)

So that's what I mean by the admin wanting it both ways. The president wants to tell his voters that he is bringing their jobs back, while his actions are putting pressure on the industries that rely on raw steel. Not only that, but the reactionary tariffs by other countries will hurt other heartland industries. If we ended up with a whiskey tariff (as threatened by EU and China), we'd quickly start losing small family distilleries as the financial pressure dropped.

Here's the bottom line to me, personally. It's easy to say that the tariffs will increase employment at steel mills. The hope would be that it would offset losses in other industries. I just don't see the numbers adding up. Steel workers make up about 150k total in the US. Compare that to automotive at 2 million. If steel added 15% total headcount to their workforce, and the auto industry lost just 1% of workers, we'd be even in jobs gained/lossed. Imagine if we had similar losses in other industries that use steel, such as aerospace.

If anything, we need to be working with our allies to put pressure on China to fix their practices, instead of just going it alone. Instead, we are antagonizing SK, Germany, and others who would otherwise be perhaps willing to help us in punishing China. That's my biggest complaint about Trumps "Speak loudly and carry a big stick" mentality.

I read a decent article the other day that arrived at the ratio of 10:1.. we will lose 10 jobs across a variety of industries for every 1 job we create in the steel industry.

Thanks for claryifing ... theres a lot there ... ill be back after i digest it all ...

Thanks again ...

I’d like to read that article ... is it online and if so can u provide a link ...

Ty sir ...

I can try to find it. These things pop up on news feeds on my phone and then once I open it, they can be difficult to find again. I will try to google search some of the key words..

In the meantime...

Trump told his advisors to look at re-entering massive Pacific trade deal, senators say


* Senators say President Donald Trump wants his advisors to reconsider entering the TPP.
* Lawmakers from agricultural states met with the president about the possible harm to farmers from Chinese retaliation to Trump's proposed tariffs.
* Trump left the massive 12-nation deal agreed to by President Barack Obama, and the remaining 11 nations reached a new agreement.

President Donald Trump has told top economic advisors to look at the possibility of re-entering a massive Pacific trade deal, the White House said Thursday.

The president has asked chief economic advisor Larry Kudlow and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer to consider trying to rejoin the Trans-Pacific Partnership, according to White House spokeswoman Lindsay Walters. He wants them to "take another look at whether or not a better deal could be negotiated," she said.

Earlier, Sens. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., and Ben Sasse, R-Neb., said the president told lawmakers about his directive. The senators were among the lawmakers from agricultural states who met with Trump on Thursday about the White House's proposed tariffs on China, which farmers worry would lead to retaliation that hurts their businesses.

After the meeting, Sasse told reporters the 12-nation trade deal agreed to by President Barack Obama and abandoned by Trump would be the "single best way" to counter alleged Chinese trade abuses. Trump has used the threat of tariffs to punish Beijing for alleged intellectual property theft by Chinese companies.

Trump withdrew from the agreement last year as one of his first acts in office.

"That cheating needs to be countered. But the single best way we can counter that is by leading all the rule of law nations in the Pacific who would rather be aligned with the U.S. than be aligned with China," he said.

Still, it may be too late for the U.S. to become part of the TPP again as the other countries have signed on to a new deal.

In March, the 11 remaining nations signed a trade agreement called the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership. It has not yet been ratified by enough countries to take effect.

Members include Australia, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore and Vietnam. With the original deal, the nations intended in part to counter China's economic influence in the region.

On Thursday, Sasse suggested Trump thinks the U.S. could still join in on the agreement. The president reaffirmed "multiple times" that he believes it may be easier to join the agreement now, the senator said.

Still, he added he does not "speak for" the administration and said the White House may want to negotiate "lots of particulars."

Roberts, chairman of the Senate Agriculture Committee, said the U.S. rejoining TPP "would be good news all through our farm country."

In January, Trump told CNBC he would join TPP again if he could make a "substantially better deal." He argued the agreement as previously crafted was "terrible."

Trump's proposed tariffs on China prompted Beijing to propose retaliatory tariffs on many American products like soybeans. Trump has said he thinks those measures were meant to specifically target farming states that are an important part of the president's political support.

Trump's tariff moves have put Republican lawmakers from agricultural states in a difficult spot ahead of critical midterm elections in November.

Jacob Pramuck
Staff Reporter

CNBC Go watch the video

I thought this was weird. I was checking news stories on the net and this came up. The link was to the Washington Post-but I can only view the front page-it is a pay site.


Trump tells officials to look at rejoining the Trans-Pacific Partnership

The 11-nation Pacific Rim trade deal was intended by the Obama administration as a way to counter China’s influence, but Trump criticized the pact when he was a candidate and pulled the United States out of it in early 2017

Well he was against it before he was for it. Sort of like he used to be a Democrat but now he's a Republican that turns republicans against other Republicans.

The world didnt stand still ... the world changed ... his mind changed to reflect the new world ...

WHAT A JACKASS he is ... ...

Yep, in 14 moths the entire world has changed!

Come on diam......

J/C

I reckon to think he is having fun with some people. I don't think hes contemplating it one bit. JMO.

Trump didn't like the deal for America when it came to TPP so he pulled us out.

Now he has sent his people in to see if a new deal can be reached.

If yes, we are willing to get in.
If no, we are still out.

Really .. the TRADE WORLD hasn’t changed since Trump took office ... u know .. the WORLD TPP LIVES IN ...

Hmmm ... seems to me that THREAD TITLE is a HUGE WORLD CHANGE just in the last 30 days ...

Here ... i’ll make it simplier for u .. i thought u could at least follow that logic ...

The MAKE UP of the TRADE DEALS have changed between the US and MANY OF OUR TRADING PARTNERS since Trump has taken office (see the last 30 days) ...

Therefore like an INTELLIGENT PERSON his views have CHANGED ACCORDINGLY ...

Is that simple enough for you pit? .. do u at least understand what you just disagreed with now ...

Hey, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a squirrel? lmao

So your saying NOTHING HAS CHANGED from the day Trump got us out of TPP til today in the world of trade ...

Is that what your saying Pit? ... seriously ... is that what your saying? ....

Keep digging in Pit ... its very becoming ...