DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs // Playoffs continued...

go away with that crap, this isn’t a Celtics board or thread

Agreed. Why would Lebron want to play with this garbage team?

I mean, seriously.

And part of this is Lebron's fault. With guys like JR Smith making 15 million a year, Triston Thompson making 15 million a year.

Then you've got George Hill at 20 million. (guess that's not Lebron's fault)

I mean, seriously. Between JR and George Hill - 3 points. In a playoff basketball game.

It's straight garbage. I don't think there's any chance Lebron stays. I don't think he's having a good time at all

What’s even worse is that Lue stuck with those scrubs without even looking for help

Yup. Without Lebron the Cavs will be in the running for the worst team in the NBA ever next season. I think they are as bad as they were when Lebron left for Miami.

It's just hard for me to think of a reason that Lebron would want to continue playing with these guys when he could just go somewhere else next season

I would think they would do some offseason trades, and get a new coach. Rather than Lebron leave. I don't think lebron WANTS to leave, I think that he would only leave if they don't take some sort of action to fix things, and he feels he has no choice. Pretty sure Gilbert will make some changes happen.

Problem is Thompson, JR, Love, Hill all have 2 more years on their contracts.. who is going to take them?

I'm not sure what magic the Cavs could work to unload some of their bad contracts and still have any money at all to replace it with better talent

Bingo! Aside from Love, who would take any of these guys at their current contracts?


The best I see the Cavs doing is working hard on selling him on a backcourt of Hill and Hood, after a season of gelling with the team.

Not much of a sell..........

And to make it worse we traded a superstar for what’s going to equate to JAG after it only being the 8th pick

things are not looking good.

I'm thankful we won a championship, but realize this team/franchise will be dead in a week

j/c:

Man, what a bunch of whiners dominate this thread. We are in the Conference Finals.

I am actually encouraged after this game.

Moving TT to the starting lineup helped. We got more boards, played better D, and his screens opened up opportunities for LeBron.

Nance gave us some quality minutes, as well. Either TT or Nance need to be in the game.

JR's shot is way off and that is killing us. I think Clarkson should have played when it was apparent JR was off.

We need a bit more from Love, but we gotta keep him at the 4. I'm positive that having TT, Love, and LeBron in the lineup at the same time makes it harder for Boston to defend because J. Brown has to take one of them and he isn't big enough to handle any of them.

We only need one win in Boston and to hold serve at home. I'm not giving up and I suspect the Cavs aren't, either.

Boston had perfect game plan. Smash us in the mouth, let lebron get his and stop everyone else. Thats exactly what happened. Bottom line is we need alot more help. Running guys like Hill and JR out there when they aren't doing anything the whole game is asinine. Blind trust in flaky guys will cost you your job and should.

A good friend of mine (from Boston) said to me..."the story of this series is not that Boston don't have Kyrie, it's that Cleveland don't have Kyrie".

This is the hard truth. LBJ can't do it alone and this supporting cast are not making it easy. The man dominated last night, but where was Smith? Where was Hill? Even the ever reliable Korver couldn't sink a shot in the 2nd half down the stretch. If LBJ does somehow manage to claw this team back to a game 7 and eek out a ECC that alone should be a massive accomplishment and possibly one of his greatest.

That said, having watched game 1 of the WCC I simply can't see how anybody will beat GSW. Rockets have the best chance and even they couldn't stop the buckets from raining down from all over the court.

I'm not saying the Cavs won't win. I'm just bringing up the fact that beyond Lebron, the Cave are ridiculously overmatched verses the Celtics.

I'm not a big Cavs fan (not from Cleveland), but the last I remember Lebron missing the finals was that year that he left Cleveland for Miami. That had to be around 2011.


So, no, I'd never question Lebron's skill. My only point is, Lebron posted a triple double with 40 something points, and the Cavs lost pretty handily. If Lebron leaves the team after the year ends, expect the Cavs to probably be the worst team in the NBA

Vers I appreciate your optimism and you can call me a whiner if you want, but I don't see a team that wants to fight for every loose ball or make the hard play when it needs to be made.

We had a game on the road, one we needed to win, we had a double digit lead, and as soon as the Celtics started making a charge we folded. We stopped hustling on defense, we stopped working for good shots and just started running the shot clock down and heaving up 3-pointers. In hindsight, the young and inexperienced Celtics were playing with a world of confidence and the veteran experienced Cavs looked scared. That's the only way I can explain some of those stupid second half turnovers and poor shot selection - panic.

The best analogy I can give you is Tiger Woods.. for more than a decade the whole golf world knew that if Tiger showed up and played just good, not even great, they couldn't beat him.. he was in everybody's head and they got flustered trying to beat him. That's the hold LeBron has had on the east for years.. then in 2009/2010, people stopped fearing Tiger.. I don't think anybody is afraid of the Cavs any more, they don't sit around expecting LeBron to just rise up and take over.. and even if he does once or twice, he doesn't have enough help to do it consistently.

I think the Raptors are just a good match-up for the Cavs, none of the other teams near the top of the NBA are a good match-up.. I think dominating the Raptors was a mirage and that opportunity doesn't exist against any of the other teams remaining.

I know GSW has an embarrassment of talent.. but Steve Kerr and Brad Stevens are on a different planet from Ty Lue with regard to what they get out of their players..

So call me whatever you want, but it might actually be a blessing if the Cavs don't advance because these struggles against the young up-start Celtics would be 40 point blow-outs against GSW in the finals.

since losing kyrie, the issue has been obvious, outside of lebron, we have all role players. We don't have that guy that can take over a game and determine the outcome. We got fleeced in Boston trade. We should have held out for Tatum or Brown or sent Kyrie to the west.. But no, we basically sent him to the best possible situation in the NBA outside of Philly. But watching our defensive and offense, its also clear we don't have a coach that understands anything. I'd love to see what Lebron could be like with a decent coach. He's always had the dregs of the NBA for his coaches and made them into something they aren't..but at the same time he has caused this mess and inflexibility because he won't ever just say what he wants..rather be obscure or passive aggressive. One way or another I'm ready for this all to resolve itself this summer..we need to start planning whats best for the team and not any particular player. Regardless Lue needs to go

To your point...here is a snippet from Jason Lloyd after last night's game.....

We have enough evidence now to call this how it is: The Kyrie Irving trade has been a disaster. Jae Crowder never adjusted to his role here, and Isaiah Thomas never returned to the player he once was. Instead, he was run out of town right about the time he opened his mouth and missed his first shot.

The toxicity level was so high at one point during this season in Hiroshima that one Cavs player turned and looked at me after one of many particularly ugly winter losses.

“Danny Ainge is a [expletive] thief,” he said. No explanation needed.


And.....

While Irving averaged 25.8 points in this conference finals series last year against these same Celtics, Clarkson, Hood, Zizic and Nance have totaled 23 points through the first two games of this series. Clarkson and Hood, meanwhile, are a combined 8-for-44 (18 percent) on 3-pointers in this postseason.

Hood is a staggering minus-82 in his 12 games this postseason, the worst plus/minus of anyone in these playoffs — and it’s really not even close. Opponents have managed to outscore the Cavs by 82 points while Hood was on the floor despite him playing just 200 minutes. The next-closest is Utah’s Royce O’Neal, who posted a minus-67 in 59 more minutes than Hood has played.

The player with the second-worst plus/minus on the Cavs this postseason?

Clarkson.

Third-worst?

Nance.

Whenever any of those three have been on the floor in these playoffs, the Cavs have been outscored by 164 points. Making matters worse, Irving ended last year’s postseason a plus-124. That’s a 288-point differential in the postseason between Irving and the three key figures the Cavs have left to show for him.

They gave up last night. Re-watch the game. They refused to help on defense, and threw the ball to the Celtics like they were teammates. It was even more discouraging than the game 1 loss, to me.

J/C

What is killing us is there are no other threats outside of LeBron. Sure, Love can get hot, but no one is afraid of Love. They will gladly take the trade off of doubling LeBron and having Love putting up shots instead. Watch the Celtics offense, they are CONSTANTLY passing and getting open shots. We don't, because no one else is getting any attention. Then when we do get an open look, we are missing it and missing it BAD.

I honestly believe this team is as bas as if not worse than when Lebron left. When we traded Kyrie, I told my brother we just ended the Cavs run. I don't think some of you realize just how freakin' good he is. And when you have to account for someone other than LBJ, you have no idea how easy that made it on Lebron.

This team is a mess and will be lucky if we don't get swept, IMO. LeBron is on his way out. Watch for that jersey to be taken off on the court immediately after the Celtics close this out, signaling again LeBron is done. Its been a great run, and we got ship! But, I don't want to see the reactions like we did when he left last time. Brace yourselves, times are going to be tough here soon. Because I don't see us getting another Kyrie when Lebron leaves this time. . . .

I agree. Game 1 got away from them early and they tried to make a couple runs but the Celtics always had an answer.. I could understand not expending a tremendous amount of effort to try to come back and win that game.

Last night though, with just a couple minutes left in the first half the Cavs had an 11 point lead, by the end of the 3rd quarter, they were down by 7.. in 14 minutes of basketball, the Cavs gave up 46 points... but with the game still within reach, the Cavs scored what, 17 points in the 4th quarter?

I thought it was very telling that LeBron started the 4th quarter on the bench as this game was getting away from them.. I know he wasn't there for long but it's not like when he came back in he made any attempt to "take over" and try to turn the tide...

What discouraged me is that none of our guys seem capable of beating 1 on 1 defense. The Celtics just look quicker ..... much quicker.

Maybe it is time to tear it all down ... whether or not they manage to come back in the Finals, or not.

I think that maybe best, tbh.

If LeBron leaves and we get draft at 8, with love and the cast we have, I could see us being a mid tier team. In the NBA, a mid tier team will never make it. You need to get that #1, 2, or 3 pick and get that All-Star.

If LBJ leaves, trade love - cut the rest, and tank next year.

Yea, the one year we missed out on getting the #1 pick when LeBron was gone.. it was Anthony Davis..

That is a real buzz kill.

I do think that there is a way that Lebron stays with the team, and that's if we manage to draft Trae Young. Lebron absolutely loves the kid, and I think that he would love to play alongside him.

Per Jason Lloyd...

In a cruel twist of fate, the Cavs were tantalizingly close to making that improbable leap into the top 3 Tuesday night. The Sacramento Kings, who lost one more game than the Nets this season, vaulted from seventh to second at the lottery. Cleveland’s October loss at Brooklyn becomes a bit more chilling now, since a win could’ve tacked another loss onto the Nets, forcing a three-way tie with the Kings and Bulls for the spot that ultimately jumped to No. 2. Coin flips would’ve decided the winner.

Even more painful, the Kings’ winning combination to get to No. 2 was 14-7-6-8. One of the Cavs’ 28 combinations was 14-7-8-9. One number away. One number from making that Irving trade look a whole lot better. Might be time to open that tequila after all.

The time is drawing hear IMO: this window is about to close in a week.

Lebron will leave (and probably should)
Then we must trade Love, eat the contracts of TT, JR, and whoever else
Start from scratch

I turned the game off as soon as we gave up the lead. I knew we'd never claim it back if we happened to lose it.

All in all, that was a big loss for me. We had looked pretty good and then bam, the hole started to dig itself. Not even sure how I feel about next game.

if we would have started out bad, and then came back but fell short, I would have felt better. but we started out good (well LBJ did) and then we just folded. No energy, not drive, no will. This team is a flopping fish on the deck right now.

i think we have some pieces, but we need to get younger. I think guys like osman, nance, clarkson can get better with an actual coach, not that mouth breather we have now. guys like korver, smith, and hill need to go. If you can find a way to dangle that pick and a player and get Leonard, i think you improve chances of lebron hanging around...I'd also try to do a sign and trade for PG13 for love. Simply we need more guys that can get theirs consistently 1 on 1

IDK I've actually become a big Kyle fan. Some of his shots are what kept the heart beating when it looked on the verge of death. Defense is a liability but...

And IDK what it'll take for the Cavs to get LBJ to stay. Most people, as in 90% probably, think he's gone after having talked about the Cavs today. But I definitely agree, we need some guys that WON'T sit there and watch LBJ and can actually score on their own 1 on 1 and be a threat teams need to acknowledge.

I thought Hood or Clarkson "could" be that but honestly, I'm displeased with both them. Clarkson never passes and misses almost all his shots and Hood just can't penetrate or be a threat.

Korver is old...he's expensive. He was a big reason we got stomped the second half because he couldn't hit anything. He's going to be 38 next year.. tanks about empty

The big reason the Cavs got spanked was JR Smith and George Hill. 3 points between them, and something like 35 million dollars as well.

That's the reason they got spanked. And all JR brought was a lousy cheapshot at the end of the game.

We have a bunch of slow players.
Korver and Love shouldn't be on the floor at the same time.

Having said that, Boston is not the same team on the road as they are at home.
I think that we can take 2 at home if we haven't given up.
Not sure we can take one in Boston though

You do have a point there. Unfortunately, sometimes it seems Love and Korver are the only ones who can score.




All is not lost yet.

They've got Lebron, who IMO is probably the best player ever. At least of my life. Maybe im a bit biased because i hated the Bulls but Lebron amazes me

Rockets offense was incredible last night. They gotta get one in GS now

I just finished watching it this morning. Great game!

he'd be a little confused and amazed at what basketball has become

Especially that we no longer use volleyballs.