DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus God made you gay and loves you that way ~ Pope Francis

I always thought some of these "astound revelations" were pretty simplified for an all powerful being.

I mean, basically everyone of them is like :

Thou that use thy car to go to the store, shall exit thy car to enter the store

Thou that breathe thy air in, shall also breathe thy air out

Those that eat thy food, will pooh thy food.

You never trigger me buddy. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree, that's what friends do. Sometimes we learn from each other, and somedays we learn that we are to hard headed, stubburn, and set in our ways to learn on certain subjects. It's all good

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
{Revelation 1:3}

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The book of Revelation of Jesus Christ was "signified", meaning that it is written in symbolic language. 

It had to be written as such, that only those who study the book can gain discernment. That is why they have been blessed, who study it.

Why? Because the early Christians where being persecuted, from the time it was given to script, and throughout  the dark ages by the medieval church.

God has a plan and has a remnant people that has passed down these truths
and He "hid them in the wildreness", " for a time, and times and the dividing of time", then when the "time of the end" came in 1798 (1,260 day / prophetic year prophecy Dan 12:4, and Rev 10, the sealed / little book), when knowledge would be increase.

This was when the second  beast from out of the earth would come in Revelation 13:11-18.

And they that will be of you will build the old waste places: you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
{Isaiah 58:12}

The sanctuary was to be restored (a common theme with the prophets), because that is what was destroyed by the medieval church.

From the altar of burnt offerings and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, to the laver and improper baptizing, to the table of showbread, that is  symbolic of His Word (2 testaments /  witnesses), to the candlesticks, that are symbolic of the Spirit of Christ, to the alter of incense, representing the prayers of His saints (people), and lastly to the Most Holy place and the Ark of the covenant, containing the Lords law and His character.

The reformation started this restoration of the sanctuary one Item at a time.

The last thing to be restored by His remnant church is the law of God.

We must not forget the work that came before us and backslide to the dark ages, to a time when only the Word and the Spirit where kept exclusively to the priest of the apostate temple of God.

They think to change times and laws.
They tell you that they can forgive sins and and offer indulgences.
They tell you that they can sprinkle holy water on you and you are endowed with the Holy Spirit and that an infants need to be baptized, even though the bible tells us that they are under their parents protection, if they excepted Christ as their Lord and Savior.
They tell us that we have another mediator and that Jesus needn't not have died, because we can pray to Mary and the Saints for forgiveness of our transgressions.
They tell us that we go to heaven or hell when we die, but that implies having an immorality of soul, when the bible said that "and this mortal must put on immortality" at His second coming. The bible also tells us that "the dead no not anything" and that our "soul will rest in hope" of His second coming at the last day.

And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give EACH MAN according as his work will be.
{Revelation 22:12}

The unrighteous are judged already. There is no reason to give them more time. The last day will be the last day for saints and sinners alike.

The mystery of the seven stars which you have seen in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which you have seen are the seven churches.
(In the symbolization of the Jewish wedding and it's customs regarding the Bride and the Bridegroom)
{Revelation 1:20}

Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will be hereafter;
{Revelation 1:19}


And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. (The Holy Spirit)
{Revelation 5:6}

-

The seven churches in Revelation are seven dispensations (ages) of Christ church on earth.

YHWH is All seven spirits, but not all at the same time.

-

He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit (singular) saith unto the churches; (plural)
{Revelation 2:7, 11, 17, 29, 3:6, 13, 22}  (× 7)

..."These things said he (singular) that have the seven Spirits of God," (plural)
{Revelation 3:1b}

For who has despised the day of small things? for they will rejoice, and will see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven;
(Zec 4:2, the 7 branch candlestick / 7 churches) they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
{Zechariah 4:10}

I Jesus have sent mine angel (singular) to testify unto you these things in the churches (plural). I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
{Revelation 22:16}

-

These seven churches each had characteristics of "which will be hereafter". They where all a type of the antitype (pointing to a greater reality).

Behold, typology, a key to knowledge.

Historical truth is witness to all seven (the present) ages of the church of Jesus Christ.

By study of "which will be hearafter", and the seven seals, and the seven trumpets, you will begin to see parallels to the seven churches.

These form the historic (non eschatological) arm of the chiasm (chiasmus) of the book of Revelation.

Keys to the symbolism of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, can be found in the book of Daniel foremost, but other OT prophets should be searched for keys to unlocking that which has been signified too.

This gospel message was written for our admonition today and throughout the stream of time, not just for the literal churches of John's time of apostleship, but rather as a witness to the forbearance of God, throughout the stream of time of the church age(s).

Laodicea, the seventh and end time church of the seven churches, bares witness to the current condition of the church of Christ today (The living stones 1 Peter 2:5;)

..."be zealous therefore, and repent."

The symbolism of the seven seals are seven signatures as per the Jewish wedding custom.

The seven churches of Revelation gives us clues as to who they are.

Ephesus > Adam
Rev 2:5 " Remember therefore  from whence you art fallin"...

Smyrna < Noah
Rev 2:8 " These things said the first and the last"...

Pergamos > Abraham
Rev 2:17 ..."and in the stone a new name written,"...

Thyatira > Jacob / Israel
Rev 2:28 "And I will give him the morning star".

Sardis > Moses
Rev 3:3 "Remember therefore how you have received and heard,"...

Philadelphia > David
Rev 3:7 ..."He that have the key of David"...

Laodicea > Jesus Christ the Bridegroom

All pointing to dispensations of time in order of their time on earth.

The seven seals have paralles with the seven last plagues (seven bowls of wrath), only the seals are a part of the earth and the plagues being the whole of the earth.

The revelation of Jesus Christ puts the reader in the setting of the sanctuary or the temple of God in heaven.

The seven churches is in the theme of the seven branch candlestick, repersenting the spirit of Jesus Christ.

Chapter 6, is in the theme of the seven seals, that represent the presence of the LORD at the table of showbread.

The trumpets in chapter 8 are in the theme of the altar of incense.
These form the historical arm of the chiasm of the book. To put this into the escatological arm (Christ work in the Most Holy place), is to violate the structure of the book and it's intended meanings.

Ephesus, Smyrna, ect...
        '                '
        '                '
        '                '
1st Seal, 2nd Seal, ect...
        '                '
        '                '
        '                '
1st Trumpet, 2nd Trumpet, ect...

The seals are opened within the framework (dispensation) of each church age, thus;
The 1st seal (white horse),
The 2nd seal (red horse),
The 3rd seal (black horse),
The 4th seal (pale horse),
The 5th seal (1st woe),
The 6th seal (2nd woe),
The 7th seal (3rd woe),

The trumpets (1st harolding in Smyna) harold in the next church age, or in the case of the 7th trumpet, the 1,000 year Kingdom of God in heaven and the seven bowls of wrath.

Ephesus - the Apostolic church. 31-102 A.D. (with the death of the Apostle John)

Smyrna - the Persecuted church. 102-313 A.D. (the Edict of Milan)

Pergamos - the Compromising church.
313-538 A.D.  (the beginning of Paple supremacy)

Thyatira - the Corrupt church.
538-1449 A.D. (the Reformation)

Sardis - the Reformation church.
1449-1755 A.D. (signs in the heavens)

Philadelphia-  the Awakening church.
1755-1844 A.D. (the cleansing of the sanctuary in heaven, Dan 8:14, the investigative judgment)

Laodicea "justice of the people" - the Lukewarm church.
1844 - the Day of the LORD.

History is it's own expository and prophecy is history told in advance.

The revelation of Jesus Christ is not exclusively for the end times, but for the stream of time, from beginning to the end of the seven ages of the Church (spuritual) of Christ.

(Jewish wedding symbolism)

Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me.

In my Father's house (in heaven) are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you (in heaven).

And if I go and prepare a place for you (in heaven), I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am (in heaven), there (in heaven) you may be also.

And where I go (to heaven) you know, and the way you know.
{John 14:1-4} (A gospel within the gospel)

-The time of the wedding was determined by the bridegroom's father and at the time determined by the father the bridegroom would fetch his bride and bring her back to his place prepared for them at his father's house.

And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
{Revelation 8:1}

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, RESERVED UNTO FIRE against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men
{2 Peter 3:7} (Jer 4:23-28, Zeph 3:6)

-The resurrected saints will enter in the gates of heaven into the new Jerusalem, that is being prepared for us in heaven.

(But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.
{Revelation 20:5}

Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus will raise up us also by Jesus, and will present us with you (in heaven).
{2 Corinthians 4:14}

To the end he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness BEFORE God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
{1Thessalonians 3:13}

-The saints after 1,000 years (tabernacle in temporary dwellings) in heaven, will ascend with the Father and the Son and the host of heaven, with the new city and we will be spectators in our Creator's new six day creation of the new heavens and of the new earth. (Rev 21:1, Is 66:22-23)

And the goat (scapegoat) will bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he will release the goat in the wilderness.
{Leviticus 16:22}

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan (the literal Azazel the scapegoat) will be loosed out of his prison,

And will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, GOG and MAGOG, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and DEVOURED them.
{Revelation 20:7-9}

And death and the grave where cast into the lake of fire, this is the SECOND DEATH.
{Revelation 20:14}

And the saints will say;

O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?
{1 Corinthians 15:55}

And the ten horns which you have seen are ten kings (a merism), which have received no kingdom (singular) as yet; but receive power as kings one hour (not literally, but for a short time.) with the beast.

These have one mind (world government), and will give their power and strength unto the beast.<(Rev 13:1-10)

[...and they will speak lies at one table; but it will not prosper: for yet the end will be at the time appointed.
{Daniel 11:27b}]

These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

And he said unto me, the waters which you have seen, where the whore is seated, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. (Babylon)

And the ten horns which you have seen upon the beast, THESE WILL HATE THE WHORE, and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. (by the word of truth)

For God has put in their (the saint of God, who follow the Lamb whithersoever he goes.) hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, UNTIL THE WORDS OF GOD WILL BE FULFILLED.

And the woman (church/whore) which you have seen is that great city (Rome), which reignes over the kings of the earth.
{Revelation 17:12-18}

--Parallel--

And whereas you have seen the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom will be divided; but there will be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as you have seen the iron mixed with miry clay.

And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong, and partly broken.

And whereas you have seen iron mixed with miry clay, they will mingle themselves with the seed of men: BUT THEY WILL NOT CLEAVE ONE TO ANOTHER, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
{Daniel 2:41-43}

But now, O LORD, you art our father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; and we are all the works of your hand.
{Isaiah 64:8}

And the dragon was provoked to anger with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant (the remaining) of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and (also) have the testimony OF Jesus Christ.
{Revelation 12:17}
13:10c
...here is the patience of the saints:
14:12
...here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith<(in the genitive sense) OF Jesus.

The remnant will have both characteristics, for this is not speaking of those whom looked forward to the coming Messiah, for their house has been left unto them desolate, because they have rejected and despised him, even to this day, as judgment is taking place in heaven.
This was so that the messianic prophecies would be fulfilled, so that the Everlasting Gospel would also become a light unto the gentiles, so that they might be adopted sons of Jacob, as Ephraim and Manasseh were in the beginning.

My prayers are with all of you who afflict yourself for the evil in, and also of the world.

Be of good cheer, for if Satan and his beast is provoked to anger against you, then you know that you are not of this world, and of the seed of Cain (the daughters of men), but have faith and hope in the new heavens and new earth and the Everlasting Kingdom to come.


The seven headed beast of Revelation 17:
"here is the mind which has wisdom"

The heads are symbolic of seven kingdoms, starting with the beast of Daniel 7;

1st < Babylon
2nd < Medo-Persia
3rd < Greece
4th < Pagan Rome
5th < Papal Rome ("that was")
6th < "one is"
7th < "is not yet come"
(Papal Rome after the deadly wound is healed).

"even he is the eighth, and is of the seven"

The number 8 is symbolic of Jesus Christ after his resurrection. The seventh is resurrected from a former head of the seven, the 5th head that received a deadly wound.

In antiquity the mountain was not only symbolic of a kingdom, but it was also symbolic of the head of a (river) dragon that was symbolic of a river that flows out from a mountain, after the spring thaw and overflowing its banks, spreading out in the form of the dragon's tail.

The color is scarlet because it is symbolic of the blood of the saints of the LORD.

The woman (Jezebel) in prophecy is always symbolic of a church, in this case it is the fallen temple of God.

The false prophet, a lamb with two horns, and will speak like a dragon (a wolf in sheep's clothing), will be the beast (from out of the earth) that will heal this deadly wound and restore the temporal sword, from which was taken away (the deadly wound).

The two horns are symbolic of two (equal) kingdoms in one, chrurch and state craft. This is the image of the first beast from out of the sea (Rome). Once the separation of church and state is lost, the wound will be fully healed.

In conclusion, if we allow the separation of church and state to be lost, then so too will the blessing that came with this separation be lost.

The lamb (like Jesus) with two horns (two 'equal' kindoms in one nation, the spiritual and the temperal kingdoms.)

The USA is this beast from out of the earth, and as long as it maintains the image of the lamb with two horns, it will be in the image of Jesus. When this wall of separation is removed, this beast will take on the image of the first beast, that is Rome and it will speak like a dragon, like Satan and become a false prophet.

This is the spiritual battle of the three unclean spirits (the serpent, the Antichrist beast, and the false prophet.) that have gone out into the world, with the second angels (Rev 14) message.

...and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
{Revelation 13:11}

The two horns are symbolic of two (duel) kingdoms.
We have a precedence in the example of the second kingdom, the Medo-Persian empire of Daniel 7 -- described in chapter 8 --  "a ram with two horns, but one horn was higher than the other". Meaning a duel kingdom, but not of equal power, because the Persians became dominate and the other became absorbed.

In the beast from out of the earth the two horns are of equal height, otherwise we would have testimony to the contrary.

This is church and state craft, the temporal and the spiritual swords, separate, but equal kingdoms in one. Only the USA fits the timing of this prophecy. (and I say this as an American Veteran.)

"Like a lamb" is likened to the Lamb of God (a Christian kingdom), but this Lamb will eventually speak like a dragon.

For in varity, this is symbolic of the false prophet, a wolve in sheeps clothing. 

So never mind what it appears to be, what (spirit) does it speak like.

It is perhaps the most obvious Revelation, yet few make the connection as to the false prophet and this beast from out of the earth and tend to call the beast from out of the sea the false prophet, because they have not studied and meditated on the words and prophecy of this Revelation.

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
{Revelation 6:12-13}

The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
{Revelation 11:14}

-

"there was a great earthquake"

1755; On the 1st of November, the great Lisbon earthquake occurred.

"the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;"

1780; On the 19th of May, the sun was darkened all day (there was no solar eclipse) and the moon turn blood red that night.

1798; The U.S is reconized as a nation by the old world powers and the first beast from out of the sea in Revelation 13:1-10, seemed to receive a deadly wound, marking the terminus quem of the 1,260 day / prophetic years of the time of the Little Horn power from Daniel 7:24-25. (And the terminus quo of the 1,290 day / prophetic year prophecy of Dan 12:11).

"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs"

1833; On the 13th of November, the stars by their millions fell from the sky for hours towards the earth and not a simple meteor shower either.

http://www.richmond-dailynews.com/2012/12/in-1833-the-sky-fell-but-life-went-on/

1844; (The great disappointment) The cleansing of the sanctuary in heaven, marking the terminus quem of the 2,300 day / prophetic years prophecy from Daniel 8:14

And the second angels message went out to the world, proclaiming...

-

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
{Revelation 14:8}

And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it will make your belly bitter, but it will be in your mouth sweet as honey.
(Prophecy of the great disappointment.)

And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

And he said unto me, You must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
{Revelation 10:9-12}

We are in the final (7th) chruch age, awaiting the final seal and the final trumpet.

And will come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
{John 5:29}

--John illustrated here that there are two resurrections. These are separated by a thousand years (Armageddon - Gog and Magog), which brings the new heavens and new earth and new city of Jerusalem, FROM HEAVEN, after the millennium in the kingdom of heaven, where we will be priest of God and Christ and reign with them a thousand years.
(Rev 20:4-6)

--Until the second Advent of Christ with all his holy angels, at the last day, the wheat must grow with the tares, so we must gaurd our garments that we have washed in the blood of our LORD, and Savior, Jesus Christ, until the time of the great harvest, on the day of Armageddon, at His coming. (Rev 7:14, 14:14-20)

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
{2 Peter 3:7}

--The tares will be gathered first and bundled and burned, but the wheat, will be gathered unto the barn (that is the Fathers house Matt 13:30).

So you knew that the loss of the temporal sword was her captivity? And that there are two swords, which symbolize, two kingdoms?

j/c

I'm just wondering if the people that insist on posting pages of gospel actually feel the atheists and agnostics on this board are actually going to bother to read your long winded posts? My bet would be no.

And since Christians already understand the gospel, they're probably not going to bother either. I'm just kind of wondering what the point is....

Part of the Jewish Passover Seder is a Matzoh Tosh (bag) and its *three* compartments, each with its own loaf of unleavened, pierced and striped (bruised) bread and the center Matzoh was divided (cut off), and was to be placed and rapped in the Afikoman (burial garments) and hidden (buried), to be searched out later (resurrected), then broken in peace's and passed out to the family to partake of its blessings.

This symbolism of a tri-unity was the practice of the Israelites and is still practiced by the Jews today, but the veil remains in their mind and in their hearts, which veil is done away in Christ.

Actually it was meant for Ytown, but also it can benefit others who might have the same questions.

What you fail to understand is that bearing withness is how the gospel is spread and it is the will of God that his people should spread the good news.

What is it to you? Do you have a point or are you just being contrary?

No that is a false presupposition, because many have been decieved by false dogmas by a false spirit.

They are very Lukewarm.

I'd have to say I do get your last point. Like Easter and Christmas. Following all those pagan customs in the name of Christianity. It's a real shame.

Somebody just got out of a boss ass sermon in church today, I see.

Yes it is...
I peradventure that no Christain sitting in a pew today, received the testimony that I have bore witness to today. I am confident in making this statement for reasons I wish not to discuss, because it might offend some and that was not my intentions here to make it an doctrinal discussion.

Folks can come to their own conclusions, by taking the information provided thereby making an informed decision and that goes for non believers alike, because to make an informed decision, one must have all the information.

I have come to some conclusions myself.

King David is still in the grave. He did not go to heaven upon his death.

The book of Acts speaks of resurrections. You can't resurrect people if they're already in heaven or hell. Thusly, when you dies it's just like sleeping until you're resurrected. That's just common sense.

Saturday is the Sabbath. Now people make excuses why we don't have to keep it, and that's fine. But let's look at a couple of common things we all know. Jesus was sent here as an example of what mankind should aspire to be. The one thing the New Testament mentions that Jesus did more than any other was to observe the Sabbath. Yet Christians insist on Sunday to observe. It just makes zero sense.

Following so many pagan customs in the name of Christianity. And it's not even hard to find that out. There's really no excuse for that.

While I'm a firm believer in Jesus Christ, the actual confines of most supposed Christian Faiths I find very confusing.

And let's not even get into televangelists. Nowhere did Jesus say he needed a huge mega church and a ten million dollar mansion to live in. Actually he and the apostles gave up their worldly possessions and went out into the world to preach the gospel.

Yes, I find what Christianity has morphed into as something I often times don't recognize.

Ahhh the prosperity gospel. Good old charlatains like Joel ‘the Snake’ Olsteen.
You know, if you loved God as much as he does you’d be rich. Poor people just need to love God more, and tithe, and they can live in 10 million dollar homes and fly in private jets too.
It’s so simple.

I agree with all you said here.

By faith I keep the Sabbath day (not as the Pharisee), which is the day that God set aside in the (definite artical) beginning, and my discernment was multiplied and even now, because I don't think that any one man, or even the prophets knew all that is in his plan.

This is not legalism, for I can claim not part (merit) in his creation or his redemption, on when he rested (Sabbath) from his work on each occasion.

Legalism is telling someone that they have to keep another day, because now it becomes a new law, but not his law, mans law.

2 Timothy 4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (KJV) Paul uses the word fables, (myths), to describe the remedy that people seek in order to scratch their itching ears. (tell them what they want to hear.)

Jesus told the story of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man was punished for his sins, while Lazarus was comforted. The implication was that both men were in Hades, which is the intermediary between temporal life and resurrected life.



My understanding is that our bodies will rise to meet the Lord, and that our spirits will be rejoined to them at that time.

I think that the unrepentant will be punished in Hades, while the faithful will be comforted. At judgement, the faithful will gain eternal life with Christ, and the faithless will be cast out, in effect to be their own god .... thrown out of the presence of God, into eternal darkness, where they will slowly fade out of existence .... probably trying to curse at God all the while, but finding that they don't even have a voice where God is not. I think it will be horrifying.



I don't think that God cares which day is used. Besides, Jesus said that He is our Sabbath rest.



Do you know why these were switched to the same days as pagan holidays? Because in Rome, and the surrounding areas, Christians were hauled off and killed if they openly celebrated the Christian holidays. Thus, they appropriated the pagan holiday days, and used them for Christian purposes. Besides, who says that you cannot celebrate 2 different things on the same day? A person can celebrate Christmas, his birthday, and anniversary, all on the 25th of December, if they all happen to fall on that particular day. Besides, I don't think that Jesus Christ cares exactly what day we celebrate His birth and resurrection. Besides, we really have no idea what days of the year these events occurred.



So don't follow religion, follow the Bible. Spend every day in the Word of God. I do think that some religions are much closer to the Bible than others, but some are so far away from the teachings of Christ that it's appalling.



Unfortunately, many preachers and churches don't follow the Bible, and just "make it up as they go along". As far as the prosperity so-called evangelists, the Bible never says that we will get everything we want, end of story. If that were the case, we would be gods, and God would be our servant. Jesus's apostles(except for John) died horrific, painful deaths. (stoning, beheading, crucifixion, stabbing, and so forth) John was poisoned, but survived. The Bible says that God uses trials to develop character, and grow faith. If we treat God like an ATM, we're not in any kind of real relationship with God.

Sorry, but my eyes are bleary right now, but I hope that I addressed your concerns. I do agree with you about the prosperity preachers. The Bible says that those who mislead people away from God will be punished beyond others. They are piling up their reward in this life, and I fear they will have no reward at judgement.

Let me just say I pray the same things for you, Ytown, Pit, Swish, PDF, and every other single person on this board.



IMO and I may be right or wrong, we can bear witness without insulting and bashing other folks. We can convince other folks with our actions way more than we can with our words.

I would also add that many people who call themselves Christians really need to ask whether they are heading towards the wide gate, or the narrow gate.

Today, in many ways, the world tells many Christians what to believe as much as the Bible does. People say they "believe in" Christ, with no intention of actually doing what He teaches. They treat Christianity like it's a buffet, and want to pick and choose what to believe, and what parts to obey. I know many people who call themselves Christians who haven't cracked the Bible in decades. It is vital that we, as Christians, fellowship with other Christians, and also study God's Word. If we don't, then who, or what, are we following?

It is easy to be a "Worldly Christian", and follow the world. It is easy to listen to the world, and to follow its beliefs. It is much, much harder to actually follow the Lord. Jesus warned us that false Messiahs would follow Him. Many who hear this would assume that these would be false religious teachers, but I think that the devil is far more devious that that. I think that subtle changes to things society says are not only acceptable, but proper, are far more nefarious. We need to be careful to be "Christ Christians", and "Bible Christians", not "worldly Christians".

It only proves to me how a lot of the Republican base is built on people who read The Left Behind series.

Ya, following the 10 commandments is a HORRIBLE way to go through life ... We wouldn’t want to live life by those standards ....

I mean the first one is really really really bad for the jihad’s .. tough to have a jihad w/o being able to murder .... ...

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

quote above by GM:



HELLOOO???

Are my posts coming out in invisible ink again?

Is it askin' too much to get a Hail Mary over this way?

I did mention you, Isn't your name "everybody else" ?

I'll take it. Thanks!

Exactly. The Bible says that Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Show me one verse that says we no longer have to keep the Lords day.
What does Jesus say about the state of the dead?

These things said he: and after that he said unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleeps; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he will do well.

Howbeit Jesus spoke of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
{John 11:11-14}

Martha said unto him [Christ], I know that he will rise again in the resurrection AT THE LAST DAY.
{John 11:24}

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves will hear his voice,
{John 5:28}

And this is the Father's will which has sent me, that of all which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which sees the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
{John 6:39-40,44}

There are no church age saints in heaven.

We do not go to heaven at our death and hell is the grave.

This is the false doctrine of immorality. We are not immortal, that is a gift given only to the saints of God resurrected on THE LAST DAY.

There is a thing the bible calls hell fire, this is the burning lake of fire, THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH, for they of the resurrection of the damnation will be consumed.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for AN EXAMPLE, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE.
{Jude 7}

(Is Sodom and Gomorrah still burning?!)

-- [Context] It is not the wrath and the punishment that is eternal, it is the consequences thereof, to those who exercise their free will to the love of the world and the things there in, and not the love of God, nor the love for their neighbors.

(Gog and Magog after the thousand years, the resurrection of the damnation.)

And death and hell (the grave) were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH.
{Revelation 20:14}

But pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
{Matthew 24:20}

(Jesus would not have made this statement, (if) the sabbath day and the law was done away with.)

For if Jesus had given them rest [G4520 'sabbatismos'] then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

There remains therefore a rest [G4520] to the people of God.

For he that is entered into his rest [G2663 'katapausis'] , he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
{Hebrews 4:8-10}

And he [Jesus] came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
{Luke 4:16}

And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
{Luke 23:56}

But when they [Paul and company] departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
{Acts13:14}

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles encouraging them, that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
{Acts13:42}

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
{Acts13:44}

[James] For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
{Acts15:21}

And on the sabbath we [Paul, Timothy, and Lydia] went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was expected to be made; and we sat down, and spoke unto the women which had gathered there.
{Acts 16:13}

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
{Acts 17:2}

And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
{Acts 18:4}

^ Written between 60-70 AD

For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, will remain before me, said YHWH, so will your seed and your name remain.

And it will come to pass, that from one month to another, and from one sabbath to another, will *all flesh* (not all Jews) come to worship before me, said YHWH.
{Isaiah 66:22-23}

The purpose of the sabbath:

-- A day of Rest
-- A day of Blessing
-- A day of Peace
-- A Sign
-- A memorial to Creation
-- A memorial to mans Redemption
-- A symbol of Sanctification
-- A Hallowed day
-- A Perpetual Covenant

Catholic answers:

Sunday is the mark of her ecclesiastical Authority over the bible and even the precepts of Christ.

By keeping Sunday, by default, you are confederate to the Roman Church, not confederate to God.

I worry that some use the idea of a temporal Sabbath in a way that becomes legalism. We are under grace, not the Law.

Jesus excused (forgave) many of the actions done on the Sabbath, that would have seen people be put to death in Moses's day. He offered grace. The religious leaders were concerned about the law.

Jesus mentioned 2 major commandments, these being to love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, and mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself.

I want you to consider something. Let's say that it's winter, and you have a neighbor who is an older, widowed woman. A friend of hers is in a nursing home, and she desperately wants to see her friend. The friend's health has taken a turn for the worse, and they are afraid she could go at any time. However, she can't get out of her house, because there are a few inches of snow, and her driveway is inclined away towards her garage, so that even a little snow makes it hard for her to get out.

You walk outside, and see her, and you are moved to compassion. However, it's the Sabbath. What do you do?

Do you clear her driveway so she can get out, in violation of the Old Testament definition of Sabbath law? Do you drive her to and from a visit to her friend, in essence being a chauffeur for her, in violation of Old Testament definition of the law? Or do you tell her to just go tomorrow?

Or, do you follow the Lord, and treat her as you would want to be treated, and clear her driveway, and offer to also drive her to and from seeing her friend?

Jesus Himself used examples of the hypocrisy of Sabbath legalism. (like a calf that falls into a well)

Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

I would also ask if you can find any time when Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, required the Gentiles keep the Sabbath. To the best of my remembrance, I cannot recall him even mentioning the Sabbath to a Gentile audience. Maybe I missed one.



As far as the Resurrection, I agree that we will, bodily, be raised at Jesus's call, on the day He returns. However, I believe that we are raised, in spirit, to either be comforted, or punished. The rich man, in the story of the rich man and Lazarus, asks that Lazarus be allowed to return to earth, to warn his relatives of the fate which awaits them. This indicates that the rich man is being punished, in view of a man who is saved, while life continues on earth.

Elijah and Moses appeared with Christ at His transfiguration.

I do not think that we will be able to enter God's presence until we become like Jesus, but I do believe that we are comforted, (or punished) in spirit, after temporal death.

I guess that works if you wish to pick and choose commandments.

IMO their is no set day of the week for everybody. If it was Sunday for everybody then no preachers would be able to work or preach or conduct a church service.

No, it's reading what Jesus, and the Apostles taught.

It's all there in the Bible.

One of the main reasons the U.S. is so great.