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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
exactly. Explain what the "new" goal is right away: "It's great guys, we'll take OT every game against these guys!" ... "First possession, let's isolate Bron at the left elbow and screen w/Tristan" ... "Remember to attack the glass on D, no fouls on Curry in the lane, and keep contact on ball screens" .. "I don't care if the refs are screwing us, the fans are booing us, and nobody expects us to win ... let's shock the world!"


I think that's why the players liked David Griffin. He was that guy. When they were down 3-1 in 2016, he was the one who sent out the group text telling everyone that were were going to come back and win it all, and how they were going to do it.

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Originally Posted By: Haus
Tom Brady didn't say anything about the Cavs getting screwed. The quote that was attributed to him came from a satire page and it went viral on social media.


I did wonder that a little bit. Thanks.


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You're welcome. A lot of people took it as real, obviously the sentiment exists (for good reason), but he didn't actually say that. Some other athletes and celebrities have said something to that effect though.

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Everyone talking about Lebron being upset after finding out the Cavs had a TO to turn.

Uh, shouldn't he, the guy whom this team revolves around, who knows every little stat and number, and can vividly recall a 4 minute series from the previous night, know how many TO's his team has, especially in crunch time?

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Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Everyone talking about Lebron being upset after finding out the Cavs had a TO to turn.

Uh, shouldn't he, the guy whom this team revolves around, who knows every little stat and number, and can vividly recall a 4 minute series from the previous night, know how many TO's his team has, especially in crunch time?
He most certainly should be upset (I would be too, as would any competitor). I think his silence is what people have a problem with ... almost like he wasn't a leader when his troops needed him, whatever that entails


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Everyone talking about Lebron being upset after finding out the Cavs had a TO to turn.

Uh, shouldn't he, the guy whom this team revolves around, who knows every little stat and number, and can vividly recall a 4 minute series from the previous night, know how many TO's his team has, especially in crunch time?


Absolutely should. They talked about this on 92.3 one morning. In no way does it impose any negatives to me, and especially about the leadership skills he poses.

He's the handle to the knife, the foundation to the building and etc etc. He should be upset when a player and a coach let him down at/in the same situation. Showing it means he's after all human and is passionate about the game he's the best player in hands down imo. We let the King down...


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Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Everyone talking about Lebron being upset after finding out the Cavs had a TO to turn.

Uh, shouldn't he, the guy whom this team revolves around, who knows every little stat and number, and can vividly recall a 4 minute series from the previous night, know how many TO's his team has, especially in crunch time?


IMO, its the HC's job to be on his feet, screaming for the TO the very second JR gets that rebound.

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Originally Posted By: Dave
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Everyone talking about Lebron being upset after finding out the Cavs had a TO to turn.

Uh, shouldn't he, the guy whom this team revolves around, who knows every little stat and number, and can vividly recall a 4 minute series from the previous night, know how many TO's his team has, especially in crunch time?


IMO, its the HC's job to be on his feet, screaming for the TO the very second JR gets that rebound.


Oh I don't doubt that, and amidst all the memes and jokes about JR, Lue has gotten a pass, which is kind of weird, because he's the whipping boy whenever this team loses...

I just think Lebron should have known too.

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Originally Posted By: Dave
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Everyone talking about Lebron being upset after finding out the Cavs had a TO to turn.

Uh, shouldn't he, the guy whom this team revolves around, who knows every little stat and number, and can vividly recall a 4 minute series from the previous night, know how many TO's his team has, especially in crunch time?


IMO, its the HC's job to be on his feet, screaming for the TO the very second JR gets that rebound.
In my opinion it's on ALL of them ... from the HC to the players on the court


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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The only thing I will say in LeBron's defense is that we didn't need a TO. He was wide open at the top of the circle and I think he wanted to drain the game winner from there.

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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: Dave
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn
Everyone talking about Lebron being upset after finding out the Cavs had a TO to turn.

Uh, shouldn't he, the guy whom this team revolves around, who knows every little stat and number, and can vividly recall a 4 minute series from the previous night, know how many TO's his team has, especially in crunch time?


IMO, its the HC's job to be on his feet, screaming for the TO the very second JR gets that rebound.
In my opinion it's on ALL of them ... from the HC to the players on the court


Yeah, it was an all around breakdown in a moment where the consequences was exactly what we've seen and continuously hear about. I think they're still making JR Smith memes...

When you're facing the Warriors... you can't slip up. Especially when the refs at this stage, and in no way am I making excuses at this point, with line of bad calls has been unacceptable and just makes winning virtually impossible.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
The only thing I will say in LeBron's defense is that we didn't need a TO. He was wide open at the top of the circle and I think he wanted to drain the game winner from there.


I mean Lue could've even expected JR to shoot it and not called the TO. LBJ and I think others were open. Just a bad time for a breakdown when it seems LBJ was the only one with awareness.

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Originally Posted By: Dawg_LB
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
The only thing I will say in LeBron's defense is that we didn't need a TO. He was wide open at the top of the circle and I think he wanted to drain the game winner from there.


I mean Lue could've even expected JR to shoot it and not called the TO. LBJ and I think others were open. Just a bad time for a breakdown when it seems LBJ was the only one with awareness.

I'll tell you where I think the primary breakdown was... YES, JR should have known.. but in that situation, on a dead ball for the free throw, the coach and/or the captain, should be reminding everybody of the situation... that's why baseball players constantly remind everybody how many outs there are or where to go with the ball...

These guys are pros, they should know, they should also be reminded.. Lue from the bench and/or LeBron from the floor should have been telling them, "If he misses and we get the rebound, if you don't have the immediate put-back, call time out".. Never assume everybody is aware.. that's why you talk.


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Cleveland is a 4 1/2 point underdawg at home tonight.


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i'm actually surprised it's that low of a spread ... I'd say Warriors should be a double digit favorite each game


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Originally Posted By: Dawg_LB
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
The only thing I will say in LeBron's defense is that we didn't need a TO. He was wide open at the top of the circle and I think he wanted to drain the game winner from there.


I mean Lue could've even expected JR to shoot it and not called the TO. LBJ and I think others were open. Just a bad time for a breakdown when it seems LBJ was the only one with awareness.

I'll tell you where I think the primary breakdown was... YES, JR should have known.. but in that situation, on a dead ball for the free throw, the coach and/or the captain, should be reminding everybody of the situation... that's why baseball players constantly remind everybody how many outs there are or where to go with the ball...

These guys are pros, they should know, they should also be reminded.. Lue from the bench and/or LeBron from the floor should have been telling them, "If he misses and we get the rebound, if you don't have the immediate put-back, call time out".. Never assume everybody is aware.. that's why you talk.

Agreed that the coaching and communication should have been better. That applies pretty much across the board with this team, not just here.

That said, JR Smith is a 14 year veteran in the league. He should know what to do in such a simple, basic situation. He didn't know the score with 4.7 seconds left in a Finals game because his head wasn't in the game, and it probably cost the Cavs the game.

I would be surprised to see such an egregious error in youth basketball. Can any youth coaches/parents confirm or deny this? Arch maybe? I would expect a 6th grader to be able to easily comprehend what to do in that situation, which is strange, because JR Smith has been in the NBA longer than a 6th grader has been alive.

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The line seems reasonable enough. What did game 1 open at, Warriors -12 I think? Figure a 6 point swing going back to Cleveland (at least), then take some more off because game 1 was so close and Lebron is playing out of his mind. The line would probably be a little higher but Klay Thompsn isn't 100%.

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Good chance Iggy plays tonight which lessens our chances, I’m surprised it isn’t more of a spread


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J/C

I am not sure I seen this anywhere. We are trying to beat GS at GS game. By shooting 3's running the court, etc. The problem is, NO ONE is as good as GS at that.

Why do we not try to play old school ball against them. They are soft. They are weak, they cannot defend inside. WHY do we not put in Lebron, TT, Love, Green, and Hood/whoever, and just beat the ball inside over and over and over against them? They cannot stop us when we drive to the hole. And LeBron over the last few years, scores it seems 90% of the time he drives against them.

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Originally Posted By: willitevachange
J/C

I am not sure I seen this anywhere. We are trying to beat GS at GS game. By shooting 3's running the court, etc. The problem is, NO ONE is as good as GS at that.

Why do we not try to play old school ball against them. They are soft. They are weak, they cannot defend inside. WHY do we not put in Lebron, TT, Love, Green, and Hood/whoever, and just beat the ball inside over and over and over against them? They cannot stop us when we drive to the hole. And LeBron over the last few years, scores it seems 90% of the time he drives against them.
Problem: We play our "physical" guys to pound them inside and on the glass, but they EXPOSE them brutally w/pick and rolls and movement.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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And then you're trying to keep up with their 3's by shooting 2's.

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The problem is that outside of Lebron, none of those guys are very physical or effective working in the post. Love is down like 30 pounds from his Minnesota days. TT doesn't have an offensive game and relies on easy buckets when his man abandons him to help on Lebron. It just gets worse from there..

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Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
And then you're trying to keep up with their 3's by shooting 2's.


Yep.

And those threes really seem to add up but fast, especially playing the Warriors.

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WE'RE WINNING TONIGHT


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Originally Posted By: 3rd_and_20
Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
And then you're trying to keep up with their 3's by shooting 2's.


Yep.

And those threes really seem to add up but fast, especially playing the Warriors.


Especially when you barely touch the guy and he gets a free throw to go along with it.


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Originally Posted By: ExclDawg
And then you're trying to keep up with their 3's by shooting 2's.
Get out of the lazy zone and you go man defense and force them to try to beat you inside, which they cant and wont

But right now Lebron likes to rest on defense because he plays so many minutes, which is understandable. If we go man and concentrate more of our energys on defense we can slow the game down and go more half court on offense instead of run and gun up the court . Put Lebron with the ball on the post , not one guy on that floor can stop Lebron on the block and the whole damn team will be in foul trouble , and if they start taking dirty shots Perk comes off the bench and clobbers someone.Preferably Draymond


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I've said all season, I hate the switching we do...it doesn't work against GS because they are so fast, we end up getting guys like Hill on durant, or a big on curry...we will lose that every time...sack up, man up, fight through screens and get into their personal space..I rather them get by you and get help at the rim then miss a switch and they are draining a 3 in your face because you couldn't get out fast enough to contest


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Originally Posted By: willitevachange
J/C

I am not sure I seen this anywhere. We are trying to beat GS at GS game. By shooting 3's running the court, etc. The problem is, NO ONE is as good as GS at that.

Why do we not try to play old school ball against them. They are soft. They are weak, they cannot defend inside. WHY do we not put in Lebron, TT, Love, Green, and Hood/whoever, and just beat the ball inside over and over and over against them? They cannot stop us when we drive to the hole. And LeBron over the last few years, scores it seems 90% of the time he drives against them.

Bear with me here because I'm a bit of a stat geek.. statistically the greatest chance the Cavaliers have to win against GSW is to never shoot a 3. Not even 1.

GSW's playoff averages have them scoring 110.6 ppg and Cleveland scoring 101.9 ppg..

So I did an optimization analysis to see what % of 3s the Cavs should take (based on current FG%s) to score the most points, every shot I change in the Cavs offense from a 3-pt attempt to a 2-pt attempt, the Cavs total anticipated ppg goes up... all the way up to the Cavs shooting ALL 2-pointers and 0 3-pointers, where the Cavs max out at 108.8 ppg (based on my 86 shots per game)...

so, my assumptions are:
1. NO CHANGES to GSW's offense from their playoff averages..
2. Cavs and GSW take the same number of shots per game (86)..
3. Cavs shoot the same 2-pt and 3-pt % as their playoff averages..

Now here's the thing... According to this, the Cavs still lose by a point or two right? 110.6>108.8... but.. almost all FT attempts come on 2-pt attempts.. the Cavs shoot just under 1 FT for every 2 2-pt attempts.. so if I adjust to account for the likelihood of more FT attempts.. the Cavs shoot 19 more FTs.. and, based on FT%, they score 121.1 ppg.

Now, the things I cannot adjust for in my calculations...

1. The additional foul trouble for GSW could play an even bigger part in assisting the Cavs and COULD reduce GSWs scoring thus making it easier to catch them...
2. Offensive rebounds, stands to reason that if the Cavs are shooting more 2s, closer to the basket, there is an increased chance of offensive rebounds and second chance points.
3. If the Cavs are shooting more close and mid-range shots, the opportunity for GSW to get out on the fast break from a long rebound are almost zero...

so those 3 are a plus.

4. The wear and tear on LeBron. Obviously he would be responsible for doing the bulk of the work on those 86 2-pt attempts and it would, quite honestly, just wear him out at some point and he would need more rest. And I'm pretty sure the Cavs 2-pt shooting % isn't nearly as good when he's not on the court..

So there you go.. according to my infallible analysis, every time the Cavs take a 3-pointer, they are reducing the odds that they will win..

Somebody send this to Lue..

Plus, as an aside.. I would absolutely love to hear the announcers if the Cavs got into the 2nd half and had not attempted a single 3-pointer yet... would be glorious.


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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
J/C

I am not sure I seen this anywhere. We are trying to beat GS at GS game. By shooting 3's running the court, etc. The problem is, NO ONE is as good as GS at that.

Why do we not try to play old school ball against them. They are soft. They are weak, they cannot defend inside. WHY do we not put in Lebron, TT, Love, Green, and Hood/whoever, and just beat the ball inside over and over and over against them? They cannot stop us when we drive to the hole. And LeBron over the last few years, scores it seems 90% of the time he drives against them.
Problem: We play our "physical" guys to pound them inside and on the glass, but they EXPOSE them brutally w/pick and rolls and movement.


TT is an excellent perimeter defender.

And I realize that some of you are basking in the glow of us losing two straight so you can be proven right about how much we stink, but this team is in the Finals and should have won game one. They have also been in 4 straight Finals and won one of them.

That isn't the record of a team that is "trash," "garbage," "soft," "crap," or any of the other insulting labels you guys put on them.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
J/C

I am not sure I seen this anywhere. We are trying to beat GS at GS game. By shooting 3's running the court, etc. The problem is, NO ONE is as good as GS at that.

Why do we not try to play old school ball against them. They are soft. They are weak, they cannot defend inside. WHY do we not put in Lebron, TT, Love, Green, and Hood/whoever, and just beat the ball inside over and over and over against them? They cannot stop us when we drive to the hole. And LeBron over the last few years, scores it seems 90% of the time he drives against them.
Problem: We play our "physical" guys to pound them inside and on the glass, but they EXPOSE them brutally w/pick and rolls and movement.


TT is an excellent perimeter defender.

And I realize that some of you are basking in the glow of us losing two straight so you can be proven right about how much we stink, but this team is in the Finals and should have won game one. They have also been in 4 straight Finals and won one of them.

That isn't the record of a team that is "trash," "garbage," "soft," "crap," or any of the other insulting labels you guys put on them.
I actually agree with you and without BS officiating we would have at least split in GS. These teams are evenly enough matched that that little bit of help from poor officiating put them over the top.

I am going to disagree with you on the TT part, and I like TT but having him out chasing shooters on the perimiter is not what we need from him. Those are the kind of switches that cause mismatches we need to avoid.

We need Tristans length in the paint. If we were to go man we are going to need him to play help defense inside because our guys will get beaten off the dribble sometimes, but we have to keep running those guys off the three point line .. I am ok with forcing Steph and Klay to dribble drive


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
J/C

I am not sure I seen this anywhere. We are trying to beat GS at GS game. By shooting 3's running the court, etc. The problem is, NO ONE is as good as GS at that.

Why do we not try to play old school ball against them. They are soft. They are weak, they cannot defend inside. WHY do we not put in Lebron, TT, Love, Green, and Hood/whoever, and just beat the ball inside over and over and over against them? They cannot stop us when we drive to the hole. And LeBron over the last few years, scores it seems 90% of the time he drives against them.
Problem: We play our "physical" guys to pound them inside and on the glass, but they EXPOSE them brutally w/pick and rolls and movement.


TT is an excellent perimeter defender.

And I realize that some of you are basking in the glow of us losing two straight so you can be proven right about how much we stink, but this team is in the Finals and should have won game one. They have also been in 4 straight Finals and won one of them.

That isn't the record of a team that is "trash," "garbage," "soft," "crap," or any of the other insulting labels you guys put on them.


I don't mean this in a bad way but that's just his personality coming through. Normally? Cup half empty/negative/pessimistic. That's just how some people are.

Eotab would be a good example of usually being the opposite of him.

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Hope we stumble into a win at home. Just need to find a way inside, and score and draw fouls early.

This is crazy, but it is not. Work the refs. Hard.

Some people should not shoot tonight IMO.


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We disagree on whether TT can defend on the perimeter, but I agree we need his length in the paint.

On another note, I really hope the crowd is jacked tonight and helps us to victory.

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I put some money on Warriors -4 ... let's hope I jinx them!


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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GO CAVS


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I could have sworn the game was on today at 8, not 9.... I'm gonna continue to binge watch the Sopranos until then.

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Can we please win. Because I will be at the game on Friday and I don't want to be swept while I'm there. I will have fun regardless, but yenno, can't it just end well for once.

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So Friday night, we'll change the name to Eveland. Nice. wink

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My excitement level is low for this game.

Hopefully we will get off to a good start.

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t minus 25 minutes


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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