It is ALSO possible the guy had it in his hand when he opened the door. Saw it was the cops, and as he slammed the door down, put the gun in his back pocket before he was shot.
I don't know, I wasn't there.
None of us were Arch... and this conversation would be going much differently if more folks were willing to at least admit that there is some ambiguity in "the facts"...
But the "BANG, BANG" and "BOOM! Headshot" crowd sure seems to act like they know every detail of what happened and that this guy deserved to die.
The jury with all the information found it that way but you say it was because he was black.
I have my doubts about this case. I have stated more than once. The only thing I will say is that the Jury to award 4.00 tells me they have a lot more information than we have in this article. Because that is such a slap in the face, they are trying to make a statement. Meaning to mean, a jury of 12 - of all different races and gender - to do so, means there HAD to BE more info. At least, I really hope so....because otherwise, its a very sick judgment.
It was testified to in court that the gun was found in the guys pocket.
None of us know for sure what happened prior concerning the gun.
It is possible it was always in the back pocket.
It is ALSO possible the guy had it in his hand when he opened the door. Saw it was the cops, and as he slammed the door down, put the gun in his back pocket before he was shot.
I don't know, I wasn't there.
Ok , fair enough
Lets go that route and assume that to be the case
That does not help the cops case. That means it is no longer bang bang as the door goes down. That mean the cops waited a couple seconds, at least and then decided to open fire blindly into a closed garage door.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
It was testified to in court that the gun was found in the guys pocket.
None of us know for sure what happened prior concerning the gun.
It is possible it was always in the back pocket.
It is ALSO possible the guy had it in his hand when he opened the door. Saw it was the cops, and as he slammed the door down, put the gun in his back pocket before he was shot.
I don't know, I wasn't there.
Ok , fair enough
Lets go that route and assume that to be the case
That does not help the cops case. That means it is no longer bang bang as the door goes down. That mean the cops waited a couple seconds, at least and then decided to open fire blindly into a closed garage door.
We literally can sit here and roll out a thousand different instances, on what happened and how it would be either justified or unjustified shooting.
I have looked for more information on this case, for two days, and I have not been able to find any. Meaning in another day, it will be forgotten by the press and not looked into anymore.
We need a release of the court docs is what we need to see all the evidence presented.
The jury with all the information found it that way but you say it was because he was black.
Yes, I believe that a lot of cops (Define "a lot" however you want), in an encounter, are more likely to shoot quicker, if the other party is black and/or poor.. I also believe they are more likely to be exonerated in a questionable shooting if the person they shot is black and/or poor... I do believe that.
I also understand what the jury found.. and while I believe we have a phenomenal justice system, it still relies on people.. and people can be wrong... In this particular instance, based on the information I've seen, I happen to think there are a lot of things that don't add up to the need for this guy to die...
just giving the law man. I have said multiple times this case seems fishy to me and I want more information. Someone post the actual law to clarify what people are arguing about is bad now?
You can brandish a weapon in your pocket, per the law.
I will actually give you credit, you are actually being fairly reasonable on this one. Unlike Vambo who has just decided to dig in and take a position and damn the facts
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Maybe I am reasonable all the time, and some others just are not
dont push it
I am just sick of the same thing back and forth on issues like this. As soon a black person is shot, you have the automatic "he was murdered" and the automatic "it was justified" crowds. In my lifetime, I have see both instances to be true. I think it behoove both crowds to take a step back at first, and let the facts play out.
I remember case where a man was shot. Instantly one side said the cops murdered him. There were protest, etc. A couple days later, VIDEO was released showing the man had a gun in his hand. I forget the name, they argued it was a bible or something I remember correctly. It was a gun.
Then I remember the Castillo case, in which by all accounts to ME, the cop wrongfully shot the poor man.
So I think we all need to be asking the SAME questions first, and that is - where is the information, before we start saying definitive statements.
Maybe I am reasonable all the time, and some others just are not
dont push it
I am just sick of the same thing back and forth on issues like this. As soon a black person is shot, you have the automatic "he was murdered" and the automatic "it was justified" crowds. In my lifetime, I have see both instances to be true. I think it behoove both crowds to take a step back at first, and let the facts play out.
I remember case where a man was shot. Instantly one side said the cops murdered him. There were protest, etc. A couple days later, VIDEO was released showing the man had a gun in his hand. I forget the name, they argued it was a bible or something I remember correctly. It was a gun.
Then I remember the Castillo case, in which by all accounts to ME, the cop wrongfully shot the poor man.
So I think we all need to be asking the SAME questions first, and that is - where is the information, before we start saying definitive statements.
I actually agree and really didnt want to go to the race argument. I jst want to talk whether the police were justified in killing this man, no matter his race. All evidence I have seen, and keep in mind this case was two years ago and has been through a grand jury and a civil trial so all the evidence is pretty well documented in court, is that this was completely unjustified.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
I have my doubts about this case. I have stated more than once. The only thing I will say is that the Jury to award 4.00 tells me they have a lot more information than we have in this article. Because that is such a slap in the face, they are trying to make a statement. Meaning to mean, a jury of 12 - of all different races and gender - to do so, means there HAD to BE more info. At least, I really hope so....because otherwise, its a very sick judgment.
The part being left out he was drunk, you cannot have a gun anywhere on your person while drinking alcohol. The police will not leave until the gun is no longer in his possession.
I have my doubts about this case. I have stated more than once. The only thing I will say is that the Jury to award 4.00 tells me they have a lot more information than we have in this article. Because that is such a slap in the face, they are trying to make a statement. Meaning to mean, a jury of 12 - of all different races and gender - to do so, means there HAD to BE more info. At least, I really hope so....because otherwise, its a very sick judgment.
The part being left out he was drunk, you cannot have a gun anywhere on your person while drinking alcohol. The police will not leave until the gun is no longer in his possession.
Still not justification for shooting him through a garage door
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
years ago and has been through a grand jury and a civil trial so all the evidence is pretty well documented in court, is that this was completely unjustified.
Wouldn't the fact it went through a grand jury and civil trial mean the evidence pretty well documented it was justified?
That is why I keep harping, we need to see the court docs, because from what we are reading in reports by the media, it doest add up.
I have my doubts about this case. I have stated more than once. The only thing I will say is that the Jury to award 4.00 tells me they have a lot more information than we have in this article. Because that is such a slap in the face, they are trying to make a statement. Meaning to mean, a jury of 12 - of all different races and gender - to do so, means there HAD to BE more info. At least, I really hope so....because otherwise, its a very sick judgment.
The part being left out he was drunk, you cannot have a gun anywhere on your person while drinking alcohol. The police will not leave until the gun is no longer in his possession.
Still not justification for shooting him through a garage door
I have my doubts about this case. I have stated more than once. The only thing I will say is that the Jury to award 4.00 tells me they have a lot more information than we have in this article. Because that is such a slap in the face, they are trying to make a statement. Meaning to mean, a jury of 12 - of all different races and gender - to do so, means there HAD to BE more info. At least, I really hope so....because otherwise, its a very sick judgment.
The part being left out he was drunk, you cannot have a gun anywhere on your person while drinking alcohol. The police will not leave until the gun is no longer in his possession.
I am not arguing if he broke the law or didn't break the law, I am arguing if he should have been killed or should not have been killed. He was killed. I am arguing if it was a justified shooting. From the LITTLE facts we have, I am leaning that he should not have been shot. But we don't have all the facts. Playing the game, if he did this or if he did that means nothing, he is dead. SHOULD HE BE DEAD is the question we all should want answered.
You are correct he was drunk in possession of a firearm illegally.
I have my doubts about this case. I have stated more than once. The only thing I will say is that the Jury to award 4.00 tells me they have a lot more information than we have in this article. Because that is such a slap in the face, they are trying to make a statement. Meaning to mean, a jury of 12 - of all different races and gender - to do so, means there HAD to BE more info. At least, I really hope so....because otherwise, its a very sick judgment.
The part being left out he was drunk, you cannot have a gun anywhere on your person while drinking alcohol. The police will not leave until the gun is no longer in his possession.
Still not justification for shooting him through a garage door
If you say so, the jury disagreed.
Hence why we are having this discussion . Do yo not comprehend that fact. The whole conversation would not be taking place if we agree with the jury verdict so I am not sure why you keep trying to use that to support your argument .
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Juries are wrong a decent percentage of the time.. but the point of our justice system is that they are supposed to err greatly on the side of not guilty.. that's why the burden of proof is so high.. what's the saying, "Better 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man goes to jail".. something like that.
Like Willit, I've watched a number of these police shooting or excessive force stories over the last few years and I've come down on different sides of them... if a person is ALWAYS on the same side, that person should consider thinking about their own agenda and motivation.
Why do u guys feel the need to BLATANLTY LIE .... i said IF it was in his pocket that changes things ...
So why the need to BLATANTLY LIE about that ...
Just curious ... im not a liar ... so i’d like to know how u can blatantly ignore what was actually said and make statements like u did when it pertains to the gun being in his pocket ...
The gun was in his pocket, that was in court evidence , so no one is lying and no one accused you of lying .
But say the gun was in his hand. So the claim is that he was thought to be a threat . But who TF would close the garage door if he was planning on shooting someone outside of the garage?
I dont want to stay in the weeds with this .... so last take on this aspect ...
In the post u replied to I said IF the gun was in his pocket that changes things ....
In your reply where i accused u of lying u based your post and said it in the post that the gun was in his pocket ... i had all ready stated if it was in his pocket that changed things ... hence the lie ...
Its a horrible horrible situation .... that man should not be dead ... no way, no how ... its a real shame ... and i could care less what color he is ... no one should die the way this man did ....
I’ve stated my piece ... IF the gun was shown and not in his pocket I have zero problems with the way they handled it with the kids across the street ... and again ... i could care less the mans color ... its IRRELIVENT as u have stated as far as i’m concerned and no one should be held liable ...
IF the gun was in his pocket ... then u got a mess ... not sure how to sort that one out ...
It is ALSO possible the guy had it in his hand when he opened the door. Saw it was the cops, and as he slammed the door down, put the gun in his back pocket before he was shot.
I don't know, I wasn't there.
None of us were Arch... and this conversation would be going much differently if more folks were willing to at least admit that there is some ambiguity in "the facts"...
But the "BANG, BANG" and "BOOM! Headshot" crowd sure seems to act like they know every detail of what happened and that this guy deserved to die.
Are u dense? ... i’ve said it MULTIPLE TIMES ... i wasn’t there ... i don’t know all the facts ... i don't understand the BANG BANG statement followed by the not admitting the facts are ambiguous ...
Thats BS ... i said that in THE POST i used bang bang in .... it was MY LEAD in to the post ...
Yet ... u just parse things together and make me look like i am staunchly defending facts when i have done NO SUCH THING ...
Maybe i typed the word IF to many times and it confused U ...
Thats the crap I’m talking about right there king ...
Had he just answered the door and talked decently to police and turned down the nasty racist music...all go away safe and sound. Your way not so much
Loud music doesn't deserve being killed! Even if it is cuss-filled.
YES, he could have handled it better. BUT the police MUST handle it best. And they didn't. Why not go for cover when gun was discovered WHILE door was closing? Why not?
I've read thoroughly on at least 15 of the White/Non-Black cop shoots Black person shootings the last few years. This one seems the most egregious of ALL of them.
Had he just answered the door and talked decently to police and turned down the nasty racist music...all go away safe and sound. Your way not so much
Loud music doesn't deserve being killed! Even if it is cuss-filled.
YES, he could have handled it better. BUT the police MUST handle it best. And they didn't. Why not go for cover when gun was discovered WHILE door was closing? Why not?
I've read thoroughly on at least 15 of the White/Non-Black cop shoots Black person shootings the last few years. This one seems the most egregious of ALL of them.
He was drunk and had a gun and eluded police. Two trials found the police innocent of wrong doing, we don't have all the evidence that the jury had so we do not know what they felt the reason for the shooting was.
who are we suppose to call when its the jack boot thugs assaulting us?
but if im an armed citizen, and a cop tries to do that to me, i would get in trouble if i defended myself with violence, right?
but these thugs got a license to do whatever the hell they please, and guys like vambo make excuses non stop no matter what they do.
this happened recently in oregon.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
but these thugs got a license to do whatever the hell they please, and guys like vambo make excuses non stop no matter what they do.
Oh stop it. There are FAR FAR FAR more great, not just good, cops out there than bad ones!!!!
This mentality that all cops are bad is the biggest load of crap.
These guys/this guy is a thug. Yes. One bad apple. Inexcusable how it was handled.
If you think our cops are bad, come down here to Mexico where every cop I've met take bribes as a way of life and a large percentage work directly for the cartels!!!
i dont care what the cops do in mexico. i care what they do here, and since forever we have had a problem with police brutality, especially with regards to minority communities.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I have NO argument that there are bad cops. I also have NO argument that cops can get and be better.
I have a problem with ANYONE who makes cops out to be the bad guy by default. For every bad story there are a hundred stories of cops doing their jobs and many admirably.
It's awesome there are more phones and more body cameras. That's more accountability for police and I'd bed you will find most police are for it too.
who are we suppose to call when its the jack boot thugs assaulting us?
but if im an armed citizen, and a cop tries to do that to me, i would get in trouble if i defended myself with violence, right?
but these thugs got a license to do whatever the hell they please, and guys like vambo make excuses non stop no matter what they do.
this happened recently in oregon.
Man I don't know. Just do your best not to be in that situation I guess. And I can't speculate on this video because you can't see what happened before, so the cops might have had to be like that. Guy almost seems high on something at first. I've dealt with guys like that and you have to put them down hard sometimes.
I will say that hopefully nothing like that ever happens to me and I don't do anything to make something that happen, but if that cop punched me like that we'd have some business to take care of at a later date. Cop or not, I'll do that bit because anyone beats your ass like that has one coming in return unless you deserved it.
but these thugs got a license to do whatever the hell they please, and guys like vambo make excuses non stop no matter what they do.
Oh stop it. There are FAR FAR FAR more great, not just good, cops out there than bad ones!!!!
This mentality that all cops are bad is the biggest load of crap.
These guys/this guy is a thug. Yes. One bad apple. Inexcusable how it was handled.
If you think our cops are bad, come down here to Mexico where every cop I've met take bribes as a way of life and a large percentage work directly for the cartels!!!
actually, there were 5 bad apples in that video, as not one other cop stood up and tried to stop the man from almost killing the guy on the ground, being held down by 4 other officers. Did he think that the man was super strength and going to get away from 4 guys on top of him? Why did no other officer attempt to stop the thug from hitting this guy repeatedly in the back of the head, where he could have killed him?
Why do u guys feel the need to BLATANLTY LIE .... i said IF it was in his pocket that changes things ...
So why the need to BLATANTLY LIE about that ...
Just curious ... im not a liar ... so i’d like to know how u can blatantly ignore what was actually said and make statements like u did when it pertains to the gun being in his pocket ...
The gun was in his pocket, that was in court evidence , so no one is lying and no one accused you of lying .
But say the gun was in his hand. So the claim is that he was thought to be a threat . But who TF would close the garage door if he was planning on shooting someone outside of the garage?
I dont want to stay in the weeds with this .... so last take on this aspect ...
In the post u replied to I said IF the gun was in his pocket that changes things ....
In your reply where i accused u of lying u based your post and said it in the post that the gun was in his pocket ... i had all ready stated if it was in his pocket that changed things ... hence the lie ...
Its a horrible horrible situation .... that man should not be dead ... no way, no how ... its a real shame ... and i could care less what color he is ... no one should die the way this man did ....
I’ve stated my piece ... IF the gun was shown and not in his pocket I have zero problems with the way they handled it with the kids across the street ... and again ... i could care less the mans color ... its IRRELIVENT as u have stated as far as i’m concerned and no one should be held liable ...
IF the gun was in his pocket ... then u got a mess ... not sure how to sort that one out ...
I think we actually agree on this Diam, it was Vambo who I was trying to get to answer the question of IF the gun was in his pocket does that change your view.... and he refuses to answer
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
but these thugs got a license to do whatever the hell they please, and guys like vambo make excuses non stop no matter what they do.
Oh stop it. There are FAR FAR FAR more great, not just good, cops out there than bad ones!!!!
This mentality that all cops are bad is the biggest load of crap.
These guys/this guy is a thug. Yes. One bad apple. Inexcusable how it was handled.
If you think our cops are bad, come down here to Mexico where every cop I've met take bribes as a way of life and a large percentage work directly for the cartels!!!
actually, there were 5 bad apples in that video, as not one other cop stood up and tried to stop the man from almost killing the guy on the ground, being held down by 4 other officers. Did he think that the man was super strength and going to get away from 4 guys on top of him? Why did no other officer attempt to stop the thug from hitting this guy repeatedly in the back of the head, where he could have killed him?
I agree with you. This video is pretty disturbing and it just looks like one guy getting his jollies by pounding a defenseless mans head into the ground while 4 of his buddies assist and watch..
It's ironic that one of the biggest complaints cops have with bad neighborhoods is, Why don't they help us? Why don't they rat out their friends? Why don't they call each other out so we can clean up their neighborhood?
Well, why don't the police do that? In every community, and I would include a political party, an organization like the police, or a bad neighborhood as a "community".... this notion of brotherhood that places protecting our own over doing the right thing has got to stop.... These things have to be fixed from within... and for that to happen, folks have to be willing to stand up to their own...
Agreed. Not only did no one attempt to reign in Punchy McHammerhead, one of his buds even held the man's head/face to the pavement with his shin... placing essentially half his body weight on the man's skull.
Five officers... and not one of them thought "ok... he's under control- guess we can stop pummeling him while he's prone..."
I'm no law enforcement expert, but this looks like the results of really lousy training.
Sorry ... cant agree ... this appears to have everything to do with 5 a-holes having jobs they have no right having ...
Either that or there was at least a few a-holes and some gutless followers that didn’t have the self fortitude to do the right thing and get their buds off him ..
This has ZERO to do with training and IMO EVERYTHING to do with folks that have no right wearing a badge or any other job with authority ....
5 bad cops out of hundreds of thousands!!! You keep pushing your narrative that cops are bad but when someone breaks into your home or car, who is the first person/group you will call? Yep.
There have been TOO many bad shootings and too many shootings that looked bad on face value but once you look at both sides, they were completely justified. On the other side, there are too many bad people shooting innocent people period!
Agreed. Not only did no one attempt to reign in Punchy McHammerhead, one of his buds even held the man's head/face to the pavement with his shin... placing essentially half his body weight on the man's skull.
Five officers... and not one of them thought "ok... he's under control- guess we can stop pummeling him while he's prone..."
I'm no law enforcement expert, but this looks like the results of really lousy training.
.02
I agree with Diam, this is not a training issue. This is a personnel issue. This is an issue of the type of people who are becoming police. This is the result of hiring yahoo who want to feel like bad asses but need the badge and the back up to do so.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Yup ... and thats a MAJOR PROBLEM ... like brownie has been saying the OVERWHELMING % OF COPS ARE doing it for the right reasons ... but a profession like that is going to attract the ... lets say over zealous ... folks in it for all the wrong reasons ... power hungry apes that just want to abuse it or flat out racists or just some with a chip on their shoulder ....
Then theres the officers that are good people but its just not the job for them ... u can train til the cows come home but u have no clue how your going to react until your put in the situation ... some officers don’t respond real well to the actual pressure of the moment in a real situation ... thats a rel tough time to find out your in the wrong line of work and someone usually ends up dead ...
How many officers are there ... how many bad appleas in comparision ...
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