Testing??? Describe the testing procedure??? I have never had any formal training with pistol shooting. Took it up 2 years ago on my own (shot maybe 1500 rounds in 2 years). After a year I was asked to try my hand at the qualification procedure used to qualify police in my state...shot expert on my first attempt....I woukd be ashamed of any office that could not score expert after I shot it...what did this test/qualification prove??? Absolutely nothing IMO.
I can only imagine the outrage that would take place if at drivers license renewal everyone had to take a driving test.....I mean heck more people die in car wrecks annually then by gun fire...and thatvis including suicides by gun.
Gun safety testing I think is what he means. I'd like to throw in IQ testing, sanity testing, psych eval... If for nothing else, just to trigger you.
Gun safety testing...lol...a paper test asking the most basic of questions that anyone with an IQ 75 can pass...sample questions
When should you place your finger on the trigger of a firearm? A. While drawing firearm from a holster. B. At all times while the firearm is in your hands C. Only when you are ready to fire the firearm D. Immediately upon pick firearm up from the ground after you dropped it doing a back flip.
When should you assume a firearm is loaded. A. At all time B. only when it has been out of your site for 1 minute C. only when the caliber of the gun is larger the .22 D. only when handling someone else's firearm.
When should you point a firearm at someone/something or allow the barrel to cross that person or thing.
A. In an attempt to scare them. B. Only when you intended to destroy the person/object C. Using the firearm as a pointing tool when giving directions D. As a practical joke.
My point is a safety exam in terms of firearms is so common sense on paper that it is not a good metric on measuring safety in the real world. Any idiot can answer the questions I wrote (and I believe they would be accurate questions)but that does not mean they will be practiced once leaving the exam site.
Sounds good in theory, until that police chief denies you because you slept with his sister in HS, or you are black, or brown, or gay, etc. . . .
Massachusetts Law has well defined rules of appeal for denials, especially to repeal arbitrary ones. The police chief has to show that you are a threat to the community and that being granted a weapon would increase that threat level.
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Also, in Allegheny County, were I obtained my first CCP license, there are over a million people. That would be 10's if not hundreds of thousands of permits to interview as the Sherriff's department is in charge of handling that. Might work for small towns, not large metro areas....
Boston has many more people than Pittsburgh (over double) and the Boston metro area has almost 2 million more people. Yet they make it work.
Pennsylvania has issued 4 times the permits then Massachusetts has with only twice the population. Indiana has 100 thousand less population then Mass but has issued 2 times the permits. Could Massachusetts handle that type of demand in a timely manner?
Much like California...I don't look to Massachusetts for guidance
You do what most people do. They only look towards people who agree with them for guidance. Which actually only pushes you further in the direction you're already on and doesn't serve to guide anything.
I understand there's a little something to be learned from most everyone. California is a great guide to how to harness alternative energy and work towards becoming energy independent.
Everyone has something to offer if one is willing to look for it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Sounds good in theory, until that police chief denies you because you slept with his sister in HS, or you are black, or brown, or gay, etc. . . .
Massachusetts Law has well defined rules of appeal for denials, especially to repeal arbitrary ones. The police chief has to show that you are a threat to the community and that being granted a weapon would increase that threat level.
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Also, in Allegheny County, were I obtained my first CCP license, there are over a million people. That would be 10's if not hundreds of thousands of permits to interview as the Sherriff's department is in charge of handling that. Might work for small towns, not large metro areas....
Boston has many more people than Pittsburgh (over double) and the Boston metro area has almost 2 million more people. Yet they make it work.
How many permits have they had applied to them in MA and how many have been accepted? Seems to me, that ratio is more important than the sheer number, and that is where I was getting at. I would assume in Pittsburgh, were there are extremely large pockets and suburbs in the Allegheny county of hunters, the amount of permits would be rather large.
You do what most people do. They only look towards people who agree with them for guidance. Which actually only pushes you further in the direction you're already on and doesn't serve to guide anything.
I understand there's a little something to be learned from most everyone. California is a great guide to how to harness alternative energy and work towards becoming energy independent.
Everyone has something to offer if one is willing to look for it.
How many permits have they had applied to them in MA and how many have been accepted? Seems to me, that ratio is more important than the sheer number, and that is where I was getting at. I would assume in Pittsburgh, were there are extremely large pockets and suburbs in the Allegheny county of hunters, the amount of permits would be rather large.
Only 1.8% of all applicants from 2010-2015 were denied source
Can you elaborate? I guess I'm unsure on what you mean by ratio if it doesn't mean how many applied vs. how many got accepted. Since PA has no licensing requirements outside of filling out a background check, I'm not sure how you'd compare the PA purchase process today to MA.
I am saying, how many total applications were taken and processed - not just approved or denied.
How many law abiding citizens are being essentially denied because it is taking them so long to get approved? I know in states like NY, I have heard horror stories on how it takes YEARS to get a carry permit approved. Maybe that is suitable to some, however in way in 2018 should it take that long.
The point I was making is that in MASS or Boston specifically, they have 2x the amount of the population, yet less applications to approve. You used Boston as way of saying since they had more people they would have more applications, one does not make the other a true statement.
I'm not sure how NY law works, but in Mass if you don't hear back in 40 days you can appeal. You don't have to wait for the permit results. It's done in that way to help speed up the process since it results in even more paperwork for the PD.
Your insistence on arguing minor details of the system is akin to nirvana fallacy: the idea that unless the system is perfect that we shouldn't pursue it. I believe that doing what we can to keep guns out of the hands of bad people, while not restricting gun ownership to good people, is worth investigating. Your concerns about how PA administers gun safety efficiently is not a hard problem to solve, so we shouldn't waste time debating it. We should instead be discussing on material change to the current system, bolstering what we already have, and evaluating proactive solutions to prevent bad people from killing kids/spouses/innocent people.
God I woukd love a 40 day appeal for tax stamps to buy NFA items....currently sitting on about 1.5 years to get a response/review after you post the $200 tax.
You do what most people do. They only look towards people who agree with them for guidance. Which actually only pushes you further in the direction you're already on and doesn't serve to guide anything.
I understand there's a little something to be learned from most everyone. California is a great guide to how to harness alternative energy and work towards becoming energy independent.
Everyone has something to offer if one is willing to look for it.
All of those awesome energy independent stories are great until you realize that no one would ever use their tech if it was no subsidized by the government to make it affordable. Those technologies can’t compete without government handouts...same thing can be said about the ethanol tax credits to make an inferior product price friendly as well as false demand created by saying so much of our fuel has to be ethanol....depending on .gov is not energy independent.
I see you learned a new term since you have used it twice to describe me. Yep, I'm RADICAL left. I'm also a capable hacker, trump age political activist, Atheist, sensitive to the plight of children being kidnapped at the US border, intolerant of the ignorant, disgusted by religious cult bible thumpers (not decent Christians), and don't a damn what you think or call me.
Your fascism made me Jacobin. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
US Energy Subsidy is as old as the country. We had coal subsidies in 1789. The government subsidized oil & gas incredibly during the early years, as well as nuclear power. If anything, we subsidize far less than we used to. Oil and Nuclear were subsidized an order of magnitude greater than renewables have been (billions vs. millions) sources
Why are people so allergic to doing basic research?
I am probably pretty biased with regard to the guns issue, because, from a very young age I was immersed in the firearms culture. and as a young person, I didn't really understand the issues enough to have a real opinion of my own, I simply followed the trajectory that was set forth by my father, grandfather, and extended family....they were all gun owners....
I attended hunting and fishing camps, weekends away from home, at a camp set on Leesville reservoir..lake..idr...and at hunting camp we learned about guns, gun safety, we were taught to view firearms as tools for hunting game and putting meat on the table. we were taught to use guns for recreation, target shooting, sporting clays....and we were taught four really important lessons, because guns can mean life or death...
first, a gun is not a toy, its a tool...
second, you always assume a gun is loaded....always.
third, you never point a gun at another person, period.
fourth, you only point a gun at something you intend to shoot...
but many kids I had grown up with never had to learn these lessons, and today, even less have any idea how to handle a firearm. the only thing kids know about guns today is what they see in the media, the politics of it all....or they learn about guns from TV shows, movies, and music.....they don't have any formative knowledge.....and its kind of sad....
and now, these kids are telling us that we need more gun laws.....this country is the kingdom of laws....more and more laws get made everyday......these children have had their poor minds scrambled, and its sad....you should never think that more government restriction is a good thing.... more laws are bad...taking away freedoms is bad....its crazy these kids don't see that....
US Energy Subsidy is as old as the country. We had coal subsidies in 1789. The government subsidized oil & gas incredibly during the early years, as well as nuclear power. If anything, we subsidize far less than we used to. Oil and Nuclear were subsidized an order of magnitude greater than renewables have been (billions vs. millions) sources
Why are people so allergic to doing basic research?
I am not allergic to research and am well aware of what you stated....an I am against all of those subsidies too....just cause we did it in the past doesn’t mean we have to continue doing the same....especially when you consider our debt situation....government shoukd not be picking winners and losers.
Honest question about the authors.....the shooting took place in mid February...these kids were supposedly finishing up school and going to prom....all while traveling to every democrat held city promoting gun ownership reform and restrictions....coupled with the numerous “news” interviews...even did a “grassroots” march in DC.....and during that busy 4 months found time to write a book, find a publisher, get it to print and hit the road again promoting it....
Do people really expect rationale people to believe his is not being pushed and backed by those with an agenda??
Honest question about the authors.....the shooting took place in mid February...these kids were supposedly finishing up school and going to prom....all while traveling to every democrat held city promoting gun ownership reform and restrictions....coupled with the numerous “news” interviews...even did a “grassroots” march in DC.....and during that busy 4 months found time to write a book, find a publisher, get it to print and hit the road again promoting it....
Do people really expect rationale people to believe his is not being pushed and backed by those with an agenda??
Honest question about the authors.....the shooting took place in mid February...these kids were supposedly finishing up school and going to prom....all while traveling to every democrat held city promoting gun ownership reform and restrictions....coupled with the numerous “news” interviews...even did a “grassroots” march in DC.....and during that busy 4 months found time to write a book, find a publisher, get it to print and hit the road again promoting it....
Do people really expect rationale people to believe his is not being pushed and backed by those with an agenda??
gage, this part cracked me up. Do you think his rationale is rational?
I was tempted to write a post to OCD explaining that I try to avoid the grammar/spelling callout because it feels disingenuous to the conversation, unless someone is difficult to understand.
Is teedub even banned though? Don't banned messages normally get deleted?
I was tempted to write a post to OCD explaining that I try to avoid the grammar/spelling callout because it feels disingenuous to the conversation, unless someone is difficult to understand.
Is teedub even banned though? Don't banned messages normally get deleted?
I don't normally go after grammar either, but there are times when it's appropriate to trigger the unhinged.
Honest question about the authors.....the shooting took place in mid February...these kids were supposedly finishing up school and going to prom....all while traveling to every democrat held city promoting gun ownership reform and restrictions....coupled with the numerous “news” interviews...even did a “grassroots” march in DC.....and during that busy 4 months found time to write a book, find a publisher, get it to print and hit the road again promoting it....
Do people really expect rationale people to believe his is not being pushed and backed by those with an agenda??
gage, this part cracked me up. Do you think his rationale is rational?
Says the guy that typed 'inpatients' instead of 'impatience', and blamed it on auto correct?
I don't know. I was gone for 5 days - not banned, mind you. Just out of town. The thread before I read this one, I saw he blamed auto correct for HIS spelling error. Just found it amusing, that's all.
If for nothing else, just to trigger you. 
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