DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Schobert

I wonder how long Burgess would last on the PS.

It will be interesting to see how the LBer unit unfolds. We basically have 4 starters for 3 spots. I wonder who will be the odd man out?

Shocbert is a possibility, but I would not be shocked if something happens w/Collins.

I like to think they have 5 starters for 4 spots, as I always think of Nate Orchard as a true linebacker, (And one of the 3 best on the team)

No matter where he lines up or how they decide to use him.

j/c

Shobert is another guy about to come into his third year after getting a ton of playing experience in his first two years...both a good thing (now) and a not-so-good-thing then (being a mid-rd rookie/youngster forced to play a lot.)

I regulary found myself quite frustrated with our LB play last year. Then I'd get around to remembering the following:

Shelton was our run-stopper who was regularly neutralized one-on-one. We traded him away;

Meder was lost for the season early on and is said by Browns coaches to be an excellent run-stopper;

The best DTs in front of Shobert were a 3rd & 6th Rd rookie and a UDFA picked up on waivers;

When Ogbah went out and while MG was out who the heck did we have on the filed in FRONT of Shobert;

Then Collins went out and another UDFA was standing nect to Shobert;

We had just switched defensive schemes...again;

Then the defensive backfield couldn't cover my Mom and the SS was standing in the lake.

I'm not sure anyone can properly evaluate ANY of our LBs based on that confluence of unbelievable obstacles on last year's defense.

There is an ocean of difference between our secondary last year and "probowl DBs". Our Dline wasn't as bad, but the same applies to them.

Secondary was bad because we had to play a safety deep so the other safety could play closer to the LOS...

And because Peppers and Collins suck, lack discipline and football intelligence...

Either that or our Lb's are not that good... because in order to be average they require a top notch DL and probowl DB's....

Honestly, the way we couldn't defend screen's, and require one safety to play close to the LOS could be a symptom of below average LB core.

The secondary was bad because our CB's sucked. Period.
That Safety was played so deep to try to keep things from getting behind us because we couldn't count on the CB's in any way, and Peppers was the only player athletic enough to cover ground fast enough.

We got burned over the middle because we couldn't cover anything, anywhere. I agree that our LB's lacked, sorely, but they are not why our secondary sucked. We were bad everywhere; there isn't a position group that gets a pass on such a terrible unit.... but, our secondary sucked because our secondary just sucked, lol.

We proved you don't need to set an edge if you have none

Vers, I don't disagree with you, its just that IMHO, we have never seen good LB play in the Browns

NEVER is a long time ... Jim Houston, Charlie Hall, Robert L. (Stonewall) Jackson, Bam Bam Ambrose, Tom Cousineau, Chip Banks, Eddie Johnson, Mike Johnson, Willie McGinnis, Carl Banks, Pepper Johnson to name a few pretty good LB's

CLAY MATTHEWS

my .02

give the drops of our CB's we effectually played a cover three.


That defensive scheme allows for WRs to cross the face of the CB and opens the field underneath giving room for in routes initially. When the LB's are then in forced deployment to add some depth and widths to their drops which eaves gaps for crossing routes and screens.

By Bringing a safety into the box in this alignment you hope to mitigate the open areas and allow for ILB to have more freedom to react - hence why Schboert had a high number of tackles , even if they were too far downfield for some likings.

The problems were furthered by as Vers said the cover ability of our safeties particularly JP. Now IMO some of the problems were again scheme related, at SS we asked that position to cover too much open space between the tackles and depth wise, the reason there is that JP not only played deep but VERY deep ( as we all know).


I got to see two games live this past year and a always I watched the defense almost exclusively , it was obvious that JP is not good in wide open space, his instinct level seemed slow bit it was masked somewhat by fluid hips and hos ability to stick and react, he is a one / two step to full speed recover player which indicates good athletic ability, but I also saw a delayed reaction, I liken it to a center fielder that gets that knuckleball line drive hit right at him and he hesitates on whether to move in or go back, I saw that in JP, is lack of instincts at the position seemed to put him in no mans land more often than not so he was late coming up and slow to move deep.

To me that was more lack of knowledge and confidence, But given his quick ability to change direction and to hit full speed his skill set seems more indicative of an in the box player than a open range.

Moving him to the box and taking advantage of that ability would allow for Schobert even more freedom to be moved around and to take advantage of his game smarts. I expect to see him more involved on the edge to be more active in shutting down screens.

I can see a 3-4 with Calhoun at FS and sending Collins from the outside off Garretts shoulder, bringing Schobert down to cover that vacated edge and shut down hot read swing passes and JP in the middle for that crossing route


JMHO

agree 100% we need to add some physicality to the middle, I've been screaming that for years.

Disagree on JP, IMO he can tackle; I don't see that as an issue. His problem was in the open field, put him in a higher traffic area and he will thrive

He can hit, but he does not tackle.His tackle fundamentals are horrid, always were and he did not improve.

Number of tackles and big plays allowed because he was trying to hit and not tackle are amazing. He either tends to lower the eyes and throw himself head first or arm tackle....

His tackling fundamentals are bad, takes bad angles, takes himself out of position, etc

He was a good college player because he was so much more faster and physical than the other players,but not any more.

I think many in this forum underrate Peppers.
He was a rookie playing a new position and playing in a very extreme and atypical role at the new position.

This is the only reason I haven't joined the "he's a bust" crowd what little of a crowd that is. I think when he gets his reps, he best make them count at SS because I kind of think Kindred will beat out Peppers as starter. I will agree, both will see the field. Both may even see relatively equal snaps pending Peppers displays his talent at what is assumed a more fitting position.