DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Schobert

I agree here. No reason to convince ourselves to draft a LB out of need.

Generally, we only play two. Kirksey's contract makes it no sense to cut him until the 2020 season (2019 year of contract is guaranteed). With that kind of cost for 2019, no one would trade for him.

So, we'll have Schobert and Kirksey either way.

Unless some ultra stud is staring at us where we draft, I don't see the point of getting another LB.


Although, I feel good about this team. If we can pickup a decent WR in FA to pair with Landry, we should be able to draft absolute BPA.

i would hope we upgrade Collins spot before we try looking for an upgrade over Kirksey.

I think there is very little chance Collins is on the roster next year.

I am not super impressed with either Kirksey or Collins. I could replace Collins and sit Kirksey.

Has the defense suffered from missing Kirksey? I don't see it. Kirksey has some quickness, but he gets wiped out way too easily, and his speed is not great enough to make up for those plays.

If that’s the case then drafting a linebacker high makes a little bit of sense. Even still Schobert needs to be on the field 100% of the snaps.

Yup, Kirksey will be on this team in 2019 no matter what.

I think he's a decent starter and a leader of our defense.



But, if there's a Luke Kuechly out there, I'd reckon we'd be smart to draft him. Christian Kirksey or not

Schobert and Randall are the leaders of the defense.

I think you must have forgotten about Garrett.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-announce-2018-captains

The five players as voted on by their teammates. 1) Joel Bitonio. 2) Christian Kirksey. 3) Myles Garrett. 4) Tyrod 5) Britton Colquitt


And Kirksey was Captain in 2017 too. We might not see it that way, but Kirksey is a locker room leader. It was clear from the Hard Knocks TV show also

That was before the season. The 2 defensive players who drive the defense are Schobert (more quietly, by his play) and Randal. (vocally, and by his play)

Yeah, I'd say the leaders are Kirksey, Schobert and Garrett.

Kirksey in the lockerroom and practice facility...Shobert/Garrett/Randall on the filed

If these linebackers were a stock, I would not buy into any of them. All good players, there is no star in this bunch.

They're above average, but not blue chip.
If you add a single blue-chip LB to this group, however, it goes from good to great as a group.

Agree with Petey, there is a lot more than being the best player on the field that makes one a leader. Kirksey is 1000% a leader in this Defense, and a guy the others look to too hold them accountable.

Except, as CFRS was saying before, in today's NFL, you usually use 5 DB's.

I think we're best with 4 D-Linemen and 2 LBs.

Kirksey will be on this team no matter what. So will Joe Schobert. Schobert will be seeing the field. Do we want to pay Kirksey 10 million to ride the bench?

I don't see the point of signing a blue chip FA LB this year.

I'd agree ... Kirksey seems like a lockerroom leader and Shobert/Randall seem like on the field

Agreed. LB is our weakest link on D, they are TOO SLOW!

Look at how Luke Keuchly was all over the field against us. If we had a Luke Keuchly our D would be significantly better.

Just my $0.02

If we had gotten Khaliel Mack ..as the Bears did .. We would be in a much better position today.. and YES.. he would have been worth the salary .. and the price paid to get him.

I said Schobert is top 5 out of turn... He's definitely top 10 and shouldn't be going anywhere.

He's not as unathletic as some may believe...

lol, there's only one Luke Keuchly in the league.

Every single team's defense would be a lot better with Luke Keuchly starting for them

#NoRealPlayers

Just look at PitDawg's sig.

I don't even know what all this means.

Maybe you should take that up with Dorsey. It's a direct quote from him.

I'm not sure either...but I think it means Joe is better than sometimes given credit. I'm ready to see him with a shiny, new disruptive 3T in front of him.

And he walked it back the very next day. So should you.

That's a quote that hasn't aged very well. We had some players here. Joe Thomas retired. Isaiah Crowell, Josh Gordon, Danny Shelton, and Jason McCourty seem to be doing just fine on other teams. I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

Actions speak louder than words. While it's true that the Browns had a lot of turnover this year, there are also a lot of contributors that were here last year, such as Duke Johnson, Joel Bitonio, JC Tretter, Kevin Zeitler, David Njoku, Myles Garrett, Emmanuel Ogbah, Larry Ogunjobi, Joe Schobert, Jamie Collins, and Jabrill Peppers.

Many of these players figure to be Browns for years to come. Meanwhile, Dorsey had enough of Hue after half a season.

Once he actually said what he meant he realized how that would look to the players still here. He said it and you still hate that he did. Not my cross to bare. Deal with it.

We did have some players here. Just not at the positions you can build a team around. Impact players at skill positions. Dorsey has done a good job at addressing it. He was smart enough to know that without a shut down CB, an impact RB and a franchise QB, your team is going nowhere in the NFL.

Things the GM before him failed miserably at.

I agree with all of those players except for Shelton. He's been a healthy inactive the past two weeks...and this article mentions his play as a run stopper...which is supposed to be his strength.

https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2018/12/12/danny-shelton-address-his-frustrating-benching/

The genius BB whiffed on that one.

Shelton seems like a good guy and never caused trouble...but he is not good at stuffing the run and has no pass rush ability.

The only thing Sashi really failed at was landing a QB. Whether that was by design, whether it was his decision solely or a group thing, or whether they were waiting for the class of 2018, it was a failure nonetheless. He did some other things that were solid.

The NFL isn't a mystery. QB + coach + everything else. Once you have the first 2, the rest is no different than any other NFL team. It's all about the same. Certainly it's not exactly equal and if you get a Garrett along the way to add to a QB and coach, that could make the difference between being a legit contender and a pretender, but it's all about filling in after the first 2. QB impacts the entire team. QB has the most impact on wins and losses. If the team believes their QB is legit the whole team will play harder.

Yeah, Dorsey smashed it out of the park with Mayfield, Ward, and Chubb. No argument there. I might quibble about how much you really need an impact RB in the modern NFL, but it's sure nice to have one when you do.

Just don't forget the role of coaching in all of it. Each of those three players give good examples of the difference it can make-- Chubb's playing time, Mayfield's progression, Ward's tackling technique.

Good catch. I didn't realize he had been a healthy scratch the last two weeks.

A QB certainly has the most impact. You also need a running game that has a dual threat RB. In a passing league you need at least one shut down CB and a legitimate FS.

Now you can try to minimize those other things if you wish, but there are teams out there with very good and great QB's that aren't doing so well. Green Bay is one example.

Dorsey gave Hue a shot with some real talent just like he said he would. Hue blundered that chance.

If you actually think we would be where we are today without not only Mayfield, but also Ward, Chubb and a revamped secondary we totally disagree.

Dorsey transformed this roster with an infusion of talent unlike anything I've ever seen in one off season. It needed to be done. The man was right.

Sure we needed a new HC. But we wouldn't see nearly the product on the field we are seeing today without the huge influx of talent he brought here at several positions.

Joe’s playing great .... sure glad i was WRONG ...

Sorry i have nuttin to contribute on SASHI .... maybe next time .... ...

U guys ... ...

I'm not saying I disagree that other positions aren't important. What I'm trying to say is if Ward announces tomorrow that he's done playing football because the concussion thing is just too scary, the future for the Browns still looks very bright, and there should be alot of wins in that future because of Mayfield and hopefully the right decision at head coach.

The league is literally littered with a number of very good young players, drafted or not, that show up on game day. It's really just alot of filler if those teams don't have a good QB and coach.

And I think Dorsey has done fantastic. I think Sashi overall failed. We are not really disagreeing on any of that. I just have a very particular view on what the most critical key ingredients are for success.

I think where our disagreement lies is that you don't really seem to be addressing "ingredients" but rather a single ingredient.

Without a shut down CB, how many games may be decided by that one TD we gave up, that we wouldn't have given up with him? Sure you have to have a good QB.

But this is a team game. Filling up a highlight reel is a wonderful thing and gets the ooohs and ahhhs flowing.

Let's look at another team. Seattle. Wilson is no slouch. But how many wins did their D carry them to with Wilson there? In this case, what you seem to indicate as "filler" won a lot of games for their team.

Whether you make the playoffs depends on your team. Whether you win a SB depends on your team. There will be games during the season that D plays, RB play and plays from your secondary will be the determining factor in those games.

So yes, you may still look good on O without a great secondary. You may fill up a highlight reel with a great QB. But those times you win by three points? By two points? By six points? If your D gives up one more score, you lose those games.

Basically it means that opposing QBs look away from his coverage, and when they do target Schobert's man, they are rarely successful.

Schobert only gives up 1 reception every 13.3 times his man is targeted. Imagine if a CB allowed only 1 reception out of every 13 times he was targeted. We'd be singing his praises to the heavens.