DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Single-payer would tank the US economy

Well, let's talk about Medicare for a minute here. It does a marginal job of covering the sickest group of them all,...the elderly. IIRC, the Govt did dictate to Drs/whoever that they were decreasing the amount they would pay them. (price caps).

So, it works marginally. I understand Medicare doesn't cover everything.

But nobody talks about how Medicare is wrecking the budget. So something must be working.

If the govt can take a more hard line about the price caps, maybe it can work with minimal tax increases. (might be dream land)

**disclaimer I am not old enough to be on Medicare so I have no experience with it, other that what I have read, or what family has told me.

I have plenty of experience seeing what my parents and my wife's parents not to mention our grandparents had to deal with in later life. Medicare is far from perfect, but it would be devastating for the elderly to not have it.

This video is a damn good explanation of the whole debate without a ton of political bias.

In my view I account for premiums as part of my annual health care cost...... what are you doing financing my health care for a year will cost me at lest $800 in pre tax dollars....another $700 in pretax dollars if I hit my deductible after which I go to 100%.....I look at everything spent....it makes much clearer decision making.

End if life care is expensive

Housing and transportation are more important IMO then health care from a day to day stand point....I think the feds shoukd cap the price of every vehicle in American to 1/2 the federal poverty level and make gasoline and oil prices at cost recovery only....mechanics and shops shoukd only charge minimum wage for repairs as spelled out in Chilton manuals. Then while they are at it...the feds should make all mortgages capped at $300 a month with a 20 year life exoecrancy. All rents shoukd be capped at $150/month. And since water and sanitation are the #1 lifesavers in the world...they shoukd be free....although I am not sure who pays for the energy and fuel costs to run these plants or the software needed to run them in auto pilot since there is no funds to pay an operator.

You should get your libertarian card revoked for supporting price caps.

As a self employed person with pre-existing conditions who has to fend for themself with no employer help when it comes to finding health ins (and only TWO companies offering ins in my county), I have no choice but to side on the side of the socialists on this one.

Sorry dude.

And it was the semi socialist Obama who put the ACA (government getting into healthcare) in place.... that is why there are only 2 companies in your area.....and you want uncle sugar to do even more.....smh

As opposed to what? Pre-ACA NOBODY would insure me at all, unless I signed away my rights for treatment to my pre-conditions.

This is exactly why I'm voting Democrat in the next election. No matter how much vomiting I have to do beforehand.

imagine thinking that having multiple health insurance companies would help you. How small do you want to make your insurance pool?

The pool game is BS....young people are sicker then ever. There are not enough healthy people to mitigate the costs no matter the pool size.

Pools are literally how insurance is funded. It's not nonsense.

Mostly Democrats need to run on a Healthcare platform, it would be quite populist given the way things have been going.

They need to run on Universal Healthcare (with supplementals from private ins), and a promise to have price caps to lower costs to not jack up taxes too much.

It will not work otherwise.

Trump & Co can't compete with that. He gets some props for dealing with Korea. But he has done nothing that helps people more than the current pain the country is in about healthcare.

Whoever fixes healthcare wins.

I know Insurance works on pools...I am just saying that the theory of bigger pools mitigates cost is not a reality as there are more unhelalthy people today then ever....including the young...most of the health issues are self imposed from lifestyle choices such as diet and overindulgence in vices.....but yet we blame the health care industry for that.

Case in point....my 18 yr old daughter just got back from a two week tour in the Netherlands...she said the biggest difference in life between there and here (in her opinion) was portion size of meals...she said everyone in her group was hungry all the time (given time I am sure they would adjust). She said back home our supper alone was more then they would be served while on the trip for 3 meals....we over eat and are overweight and obese based on BMI averages....then I can talk about smokers taking up residence on cardiac units in most hospitals....yes you can get heart disease and never smoke....but odds are if you are on CIC you have a smoking history...again self imposed....not medicines fault.

Single-payer absolutely would not tank the U.S. economy.

We could pay for it 10X over.

We can do it. We choose not to

10x over??? Care to back that up or are you doing your best DJT just spouting wild claims off the hip?

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He's right. We can budget money and print or create money to pay for anything we want.

Someone does not understand the pitfalls of fiat currency and the fabled printing press.

He said we could pay for anything we want, not that it wouldn't have drawbacks.

Then why even say such a stupid thing.....but whatever..i know it is breakfast time so go back to consuming your nutritious unicorn farts.

Yep. You got this. Eve for prez!

Right OCD,,,, The other thing.. Yesterday I got a call from my primary Doctors office. They said that they approved my prescriptions but that I needed to set up an appointment for a Check Up.

The earlist day was in November. Over 3 months to see my Doctor for a non life threatening check up.

It's not any different in Canada.

People miss the point about a lot of this I think. Insurance companies get away with murder. (not literally)

They have layer on top of layer on top of layer of management. Then tons of Employees after that.

Most of those would be gone.... But, we'd need to hire more folks to oversee and implement a single payer system.

Too many layers to get good healthcare in the USA today.

When the Dems and Obama put in the ACA, I applauded the effort and the Idea. I felt as if they goofed up on the execution.

I thought then, we have a superb Health Care system in place (medicare) and all they needed to do was open it up to people to buy into.

Single payer they way that Sanders wants it, is different than what I wanted.

By the way, if you are lucky enough to get Medicare and can afford a supplimental plan, you'll probably find that in your life time, you never had better care.

Yes, there are some doctors that won't accept medicare, but they are far and few between.. In fact, I've never run into one that doesn't accept it.

Quit with the Medicare is awesome party line.

https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/the-facts-on-medicare-spending-and-financing/

It marginally works at the moment because you have 150 million people paying payroll taxes (which is matched by employer) to support a program that only has 60 million participants. And this magic program is gonna work just fine when that 150 million now pay payroll taxes to support 330 million people? Come on guys and gals

Yeah so in the meantime Trump is going to bypass Congress to cut tax’s for the rich even more. Common guys and gals!

If were ever dumb enough to put in a single payer system, it will kill our economy completely.

you will see record numbers of companies simply close up shop, pack their bags, and leave. they will move operations away from here and away from the absurd taxes it will bring.

the common working everyday person will be crushed by a single payer system...a gallon of milk will cost you 19 dollars, a pack of craft singles will be 17 dollars,hell a gallon of gas will probably cost around 15 dollars....

the closer we move to socialism, the closer we get to a total collapse of the nation as a whole.

So go ahead and re-arrange our economy so that we can support it.

I mean, what is more important than ensuring every American Citizen has the means to decent healthcare that won't bankrupt them in the case of a catastrophic illness? Honestly?

How are we supposed to be "Great" if we can't even do that. World's largest economy and all....................

There are plenty of countries in the world that have socialized healthcare that aren’t socialist in general. The term is subjective and needs to be viewed as so. People say socialism and boom they’re viewed as communistic traitors by many.

please define catastrophic illness and please assign a dollar figure to what constitutes going bankrupt.

This discussion has a lot to do with things you want to pay for and things you have to pay for. People have a built in aversion to doing anything they HAVE TO DO..it is called being an adult. We all love to pay for things we want to do though. I have been to 3 concerts in the last 2 weeks. Tickets to get into the shows are typically $30 and up. Beer is $15 a can. Wine is $40 a bottle. Merch tee shirts start at $40. Food purchase is $10 for a garbage hamburger. And the lines for all these purchases are 50 people deep for the entire shows. I sit and watch people spend hundreds of dollars at each show. I have friends that go to a show every week and do this. it is nothing for them to drop $800 a month on concerts. Then they bitch about health care costs.

I have other friends that pay $2000 a year for daughter to play softball. They pay $30 a week for private lessons. The gas to travel to practices that are 70 miles away twice aweek is salty. They travel to all sorts of out of state events requiring 3 nights stays in hotels and tons of dinning. Yet they cant afford insurance and kid is on Medicaid. (i was treasurer manager of 2 of the teams she was on so I can vouch for the costs and their checks). And tell me again that they cant afford health care.

Me on the other hand..I just spent $5000 on a fence for our dog that would not train to our underground electric fence. We just saved up $4000 over the last year to send our daughter to the Netherlands for a trip. My youngest had emergency appendectomy surgery, my wife is having surgery on her foot, my other daughter had 4 wisdom teeth taken out and I have had 3 surgeries all since the beginning of the year. Our income is a few dollar over the 6 figure scale which is not rich by any means....and we dont whine about our healthcare costs. We have a healthy respect for the service provided and dont have a notion that were are entitled to other peoples efforts. and I am not bankrupt by any means..it is doable, but there are things I HAVE TO DO that I don't want to do...but my pup is happy to be outside running now instead of spending entire day inside or on a teether.

We would see a whole lot of this.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worl...m=.4101dd6e1a55

I wish lampdog would weigh in on this topic since he lives in Canada.

If you don't know what bankruptcy or catastrophic illness is, google is your friend.

I wouldn't complain about my healthcare costs either if my total out of pocket costs was only $1500/yr like you claim yours is. That amounts to $125/mo or so. Talk to me when you have hundreds of thousands of dollars in billable claims and your out of pocket max is over 8 large on top of your premiums. I make it work and I don't expect every year to be like this one (twins in NICU for 21 days was the biggest cost for sure.)

I just don't know how anyone not worth millions would be expected to pay $224k for two babies to stay in the NICU for 3 weeks. It's either pay what amounts to almost the cost of my house, or let my babies die. Yet you're here arguing that if I managed my money better, I'd have $224k in the bank to just hand over? Go peddle that trash argument elsewhere man.

Hey if you’d not go to concerts or eat avocado toast in the morning you could afford that $500,000 treatment for cancer. Duh.
(Deep deep purple font)

Where are they going? Canada? Europe? Asia? All of those countries also have universal health insurance. Are they going to go to Belarus or Guatemala?

I guess I don't understand why companies would leave. Assuming we had "Medicare for all", isn't Medicare cheaper than normal Ins? Assuming companies would have to still pay some part of it, wouldn't they be jumping for joy if it were cheaper?

Taxes in general won't hurt companies, if it taxes across the board. People still have to buy stuff no matter what.

Do we actually have to go over the fact tgat the billable portion of your mefical bill is a fake as crap number. The negotiated number on your EOB is the only thing that matters. And yea I have years of $100k billable claims to know what I am talking about considering I have had 20-25 outpatient surgeries since 2015 (I quit counting how many times I got put under).

And no...concert savings won’t pay the bill uninsured bill...but it pays the insurance premium which then makes the bill manageable....insurance is part of the game and the rules....we are talking and debating football but you keeping bring up the game with the black and white ball and derail the discussion with different rules and goals

And yes I know what bankruptcy is....but it it disingenuous to the debate to have someone with $50k in CC debt, $30k in auto loans, has a $100k second mortgage and owes a $500 medical bill file for bankruptcy and get lumped into the stat that they filed bankruptcy for medical reasons. That is padding the stats for propaganda purposes. And it perpetuates the myth which is one of the greatest enemies of the truth as pointed out by JFK in 1962.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.25.w74

What utter and complete nonsense.

South Korea has had a single payer healthcare system for a long time now and the healthcare is so good that even without insurance at all it's cheaper and better healthcare. If fact it's so much cheaper that people from all over the world including the USA ride a plane to go there to have procedures done.

They do it by regulating doctor income and also regulating doctor liability. They also regulate what doctors can charge for procedures.

They also allow supplemental insurance for those that can afford it but honestly no one really needs it because most things are covered.

Healthcare and education are two aspects of society that should be guaranteed for all our citizens. You can't work if you don't have job skills and you can't work if your health is destroyed. Therefore as a society we need to make sure our people are healthy and well educated because then our society will be healthy and well educated too. That is ALWAYS a good thing and worth more than anything else we would spend that money on.

I am going to blow a gasket if I hear the idea of governmental wage control thrown out again as a solution...have we forgotten that governmental wage freezes in the US is what brought on the current health insurance paradigm we are in now....just another shining example of government does not know best.

And the easiest way for people to be healthy is better eating.....but Jesus Christ watch what happens when you tell any what they can and can’t eat and create laws to govern food intake.

The stuff I am hearing is what nightmares are made of and very Orwellian.

The difficulty is that we are going to have to tear down the existing healthcare system to its bare studs, and starting fresh.

Even if we dont want to tear it down, its set course to completely implode.

So one way or another, a new system will happen.

j/c:

I haven't read most of the posts since I last posted because yesterday taught me many people on here do not care about fairness and the truth.

I want to throw this out there for people like Eve. She seems to have a good handle on things. I would also like to hear from others who are more middle-of-the-road people and are not those who constantly are either all left or all right.

We've talked about corruption in both the government and the private sectors. I think most of us will admit that both exist.

I'm just thinking this through........as a person who is a private producer that sells good and services to others, I am always keenly aware of competition. I want to provide the best product/service that I can for a reasonable price.

I don't get the same vibe from government. I think we all have dealt w/governmental bureaucracies. We see how slow the system is. How uncaring the workers are. How aloof they are. The long waits. The high costs. The rude attitudes.

It seems to that while some people love to rag on capitalism, I would much rather deal w/a private entrepreneur than I would a governmental bureaucracy.

I believe competition is a good thing and I am opposed to Big Government.

Does that makes sense, or not?

I have a serious question about the center, and another about your views.

Over the last 40 years the center has moved so far to the right that Reagan would be considered a left of center Democrat by today's standards. Yet I hear people calling Democratic Socialist the radical left.

You have accused me of not being open to other's ideas, not being 'middle of the road' in my thinking, and pounding my points home at all costs in every debate. I told you I would reflect on that, and I have.

So I pose these two questions:

If the center has moved past the Reagan Republicans over the last 40 years, then today a 'middle of the road' view would be solidly Republican as compared to 1980's politics. If this is true then why is the so-called radical left not just the left, with the center being the not so moderate republican center or "extreme center" and the right being the almost over the cliff radical right?

Second, you have chastised me and Swish for not being flexible, not being more moderate, and discounting the views of the 'majority' in the center. Yet I see this post I'm replying to and think that you just don't seem to be open to anyone's views that aren't more 'middle of the road', so you seem to be a hardcore centrist with a slight left lean. How is you position more open minded than mine?