DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Mayfield and Tyrod Taylor

I want to add that TT is exactly the QB that Buffalo needed at this time. They made the playoffs with TT and drafted their QB of the future. I mean...what better situation than to have a playoff-caliber team and STILL have an early enough pick to get your QB of the future - and a raw one at that - while moving on with the QB who just made the playoffs?

GC. Two things don't jive.

Hue has said he's adamant Tyrod will be the starter.

And we all know that Hue gave lip service to running more but largely 2016, and 2017 had a higher percentage of pass plays.

And a Fantasy Football Magazine tells me Tyrod has never been better than 31st in pass attempts.

So Something's got to give.

Hue Jackson isn’t calling plays.

Too bad. Because Hue ran the ball more when he was in Cinci than Haley did in Pittsburgh.

This junk has been going on for two years. People simply look at the numbers in Cleveland and say "Hue doesn't like to run the ball." That's not true. He ran it a bunch in Cinci.

There were many extenuating circumstances that when combined led to us not running the ball a lot the last two years. It's easy for fans to ignore all of those factors and just make a broad statement like "Hue doesn't like to run the ball."

It's lazy and irresponsible.

I agree with Vers. Hue has been lazy and irresponsible for the last two years.

Another guy who intentionally tries to start trouble w/out adding anything of consequence. Of course, Mr. Insincere "likes" that nonsense.

Please forgive me for attempting to agree with you and proceed with telling the rest of the board what to think.

Please post some more details about these extenuating circumstances.

I seem to recall quite a few 1st quarters last year when the score was still close and yet Hue called more passing plays than running plays. Seems to me that was an opportune time to play ball control offense, not Air Raid offense. There were even some 3rd and 4th quarters with close scores where grind it out football was called for.

I'll grant you - once the Browns fell seriously behind on the scoreboard - that was a legitimate "extenuating circumstance" to emphasize passing over running.

But what about all the other times when a running, ball control offense was the better choice? A much better choice than demanding one's inaccurate rookie quarterback who panics in the red zone to throw the ball so much? What were the extenuating circumstances then?

I've posted the reasons several times. I even posted numbers of when Hue was in other places and compared them to Haley's team.

Many posters don't want to hear it. They just say that "Hue refused to run the ball." That's fine, but don't expect me to believe that nonsense.

IIRC Hue used the run game in Oakland pretty effectively ... I would HOPE we see a more balanced attack this year, especially with more talent to spread out the D

Haley will be calling the shots on offense this year, so we won't be abandoning the run unless Hue decides to do a little chest thumping.

I agree with your statement that Hue ran the ball plenty before, but the last two years here, that was not the case, and I believe that is why the stigma has been put on him.

It will be interesting to watch how the offense develops.

As much as I would love an offense built around running the ball i'm not going to hold my breath expecting one.
Both Hugh and Haley talk a much better game about running they ball then they actually produce.

But the name of the game for me isn't about form but function.
If the offense is efficient and productive and works in concert to complement the defense then I really don't care about run/pass ratio.

Some will pay him...the key then becomes how can the organization get the best compensation via trade for him. Ideally he balls out, Baker is ready to take over and you trade Tyrod for picks.

j/c:

As a former RB, I love running the ball. But this board is crazy when it comes to how much we should run. It's a passing league and it's not 1965 anymore.

We need to atleast have some balance... especially in the second half... too many games last year it felt like we had less than 5 rushing attempts in the second half...

I agree that it's a passing league... but I really hope we don't abandon the run in the second half... don't need to run every down... but man when we had a rookie qb at the helm how did we not rush more last year?

Just looked it up.
We were 28th in average rushing attempts per game, and ninth in passing attempts at around 35.7 per game (for context, the top 17 teams were 34 and higher).

Situations sometimes dictate having to throw more (the score, defences stacking the box), but Kizer was asked to throw far too often IMO. And I'm not a Hue-basher.

jay, I agree we need to have balance. I was responding to those who say we need to pound it on the ground and then pound it some more. That's not balance. That's asinine.

Alright, I guess I will try this again just for guys like you who are honest. I want to mention that there is one poster who isolates each one of my assertions and refutes it. My contention is that all of these factors combined together skewed the notion on whether or not Hue likes to run the ball or not. And again, if I have to, I can pull up his rushing totals when he was in a more favorable situation w/other teams to add further evidence of my claim. But please, I've posted those stats several times and really don't feel like taking 30 to 60 minutes looking them up again.

Alright, here are some reasons why I think that we didn't run the ball as often as some would like:

--We were behind in many games and teams pass more when they are trailing, especially late in games.

--Teams stacked the box to stop the run. We have quotes from guys like Joel Bitonio and Joe Thomas to verify this point. Beating your head against the wall is not a sound strategy. You try and attack the D's weaknesses.

--We had a rookie qb who was prone to making mistakes. Running for 1 yd. on first down and 2 yds on second down [which happened quite a few times] and putting Kizer in a 3rd and long situation would not be smart. There are two reasons for that. One, he held the ball way too long because he struggled to go through progressions. That led to sacks. Secondly, he was prone to throwing interceptions. Those interceptions would obviously increase percentage wise if the defenses knew we had to pass and could disguise their coverages.

--This is related to the previous statement.......when you have a qb like Kizer, you want to throw when teams are not expecting you to throw. Less pressure on your young qb.

--Our offense moved the ball at times, but typically did something stupid the longer the drive took. Looking for some big plays was an attempt to negate that.

I don't think any of those things just stand on their own, but when you combine them, one [who has played and coached the game] can easily see the why of it.

Overall good post... I still think there were games where it felt we completely changed the game plan in the second half... but every one of your point should I think is valid...

I think this year we will see a much more balanced game... with Taylor and some great WRs defenses cant stack the box... plus I trust Taylor to audible to the right plays when needed... I don't think Kizer could be expected to do that...

Thanks for the reply...

Yes, having Tyrod should help.

Versatile, thanks for this reply. I was one of those making the query. We agree that a proper balance in the run/pass ratio is important. We'll just have to continue to disagree on whether or not Hue called too heavy heavy a pass/run ratio.

That's cool.

I agree. Last year we needed to run the ball more because we had a QB who couldn't throw and receivers who couldn't catch.

This year might be different.

I don't think Vers (feel free to correct me, Vers), or anyone, would disagree that he called too heavy in favor of Passing. I believe Vers was simply explaining WHY for the folks that simply look at one stat that says we passed more and then take that to say that "Hue doesn't like to run"; because Hue has a demonstrated history of liking to run and being very balanced... it's part of what got him this job, so for him to not do it the smart observer would try to look a little deeper than run/pass ratio and understand the WHY.

I think the smart observer IS trying to dig deeper. But even the rare times we had the lead Hue passed more than he ran. It was a strange 2 years.

Well said.

There was something very clearly going on between Crow and Hue last season. Crow was not doing something right in Hue's mind which had to play into it.

Then you add in that absolute turnover machine we had at QB and teams were stacking up on the run.

Absolutely... but, that observer who is digging deeper would not default to a short-sighted reasoning of "oh, Hue doesn't like to run", which was the point

And our two primary running backs still rushed for 4.15 yards per carry.

Exactly!

So you ram the ball down their throats! Take out a WR and put an extra lineman in. Make your 8 in the box bigger than their 8 in the box. Absolutely dare them to take out a DB to account for it.

AP ran against a stacked box with poor QB's almost his entire career. Yeah, teams stack the box because you made a stupid decision to start a QB well before he was ready, you can either let them dictate your game plan or you keep ramming the rock down their throats till they stop you.

There is absolutely no excuse to abandon the run in the first quarter like we did last year. You can't run the ball if you don't even try.

Probably only Hue knows if he likes to run the ball or not. All we know is that he didn't, especially when he said he would. The great fake out. Maybe this year he'll say he wants to pass more and he'll run the crap out of the ball?

Sorry you got drug into this. That group doesn't want to hear logic and reason.

They are going to be brutal this year.

I suppose it's too much to ask for you to stop your antics for once.

Last year we did need to run more. We had a QB who couldn't throw and a collection of receivers who weren't all that reliable.

This year things seem to be different. Maybe we can be pass heavy. If the line is a great run blocking group and not as good at pass pro, then maybe not. We might need to lean on the run game.

I say wait and see before we get all worked up. Each game presents it's own challenges and opportunities to which the coaches need to make adjustments.

If Baker shows better leadership and aggressiveness. If he shows better game management, makes better decisions, shows more big play ability and the offense scores more TD's and less FGs with Baker at the helm. Basically if the offense looks better with Baker in there, then he will start.

Every team is different ... therefore every year is different ...

In football if u can run affectively it will make passing easier ... if u can pass affectively it will make running easier ....

Hue’s teams in Cinci were proficient at both and were succesful at both and Hue took advantage ..

Hue’s teams in C-town could do neither well ... not sure why he decided to go pass happy last year ..

This team will be NOTHING LIKE last years team on O ... THANK GOD ...

Way more talent ...

Haley as OC ..

Hue pitching in ..

LETS GOOOOOOOoooooooooo ....

We open with 2 tough games, against the Steelers and Saints. I don't see the Browns throwing Baker into the mix right away, unless something truly awful happens to both Tyrod and Stanton.

Last year was last year.... Sincerely, I'm not interested in rehashing how we break records.
I was distinctly under the impression that our strength was going to be our run game. We had the horses on the line to make that happen.We had Crow who, imo, could make it happen. We had the QB and the WRs to make us want to hand the ball off on every snap. So why didn't we? Was our run game not a strength? Did Hue not trust our run game?

Are all of you guys ignoring my factors? Do you all think I don't know football? Or, do you just want to slam Hue?

Serious questions, because if you don't value my football opinions, I won't be answering the questions anymore.

I wasn't slamming anything you said. I don't think the other guys were either. I can't speak for them, but I wasn't even thinking about you when I made my comment, and that isn't a slam either.

I agreed with you that we might not need to run the ball more than pass this year. I then said we should have run the ball more last year because the passing game wasn't good.

As Woody Hayes once said, " When you pass the ball three things can happen, and two aren't good."

Then again, you can say the same for running the ball. lol