DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Browns on Hard Knocks

For the record, those were my wifes comments to me. That is what she thought when she saw that.

I don't think Hue is weak. Enduring the last 2 years tells me that, which is more or less saying what you are saying about him going back out and coaching the team. That would have been a easy day to hand it off to the coordinators and go home for the day.

As to how Hue handled the conversation, I agree he didn't get out of line. I simply agreed with the position coach and Haleys point that this team is only a week in and and maybe we don't need to be giving days off. The position coach said something about letting them hold the guys back and limit the reps. I agree with that. I fully agree you want to get the players to the finish line of camp as healthy as possible....I am sure all the coaches know that. Haley and Williams have been head coaches. They have won NFL games with the teams they had. They don't want to grind guys in to the dirt.

I'd think it's more common than you might believe. Most of these kids come from poverty or near poverty. Discussion of investing probably isn't a topic around the house much.

That's kinda why the NFL has those rookie symposiums. That's part of the lessons they teach these young men.

It's easier to "slip" a guy into practice if they are dressed, than if they are not. That would be my concern.

Agree 100%... and that was my only complaint with Hue's leadership during the program. His mind was already made up and attitude was "my way or the highway" when a coach was offering a very good suggestion.

Obviously this is a huge problem when two coaches say so, in no uncertain terms, and a team leader insists emphatically that this is the case.

You're sitting in the room with all of the leaders you expect to do their jobs and will not listen to their suggestions. I get the delicate balance, but RB coach Kitchens offered a suggestion that would do nothing to disturb that.

I must be the only one who didn't like Landry's speech. Grown men respond to more articulate professional speeches.


Things that include stuff like:

"You don't have to be here, this is your life. You can be out of the league next year if you don't want to practice. It's not even about being great it's about do you want to play in the NFL and receive all of the money and fame that comes with it? If the answer is yes, you better get out there and practice."



Obviously I just made that up and I'm not a player but cursing at essentially children....I dunno it just seems ineffective and doesn't send a message that this could be the last year any of them play in the NFL.

A lot of football rhetoric is really based in motivation. Coming from the #1 WR, the guy with the bag, the big house, the guy who is only here because our proposed high value WRs, Coleman (at the time) and Gordon, couldn't do the job, this is the exact message you want him sending to the team imo. Lead by example and hardwork, but don't be afraid to light a fire under these guys' arse.

I think your message would probably be best coming from someone like Hawk or a coach.

JMO

I think that's fair. I think different players could/will respond differently to Landry's speech. Everyone is different. While one player needs coddled, another may need tough love such as this.

I liked Landry's speech. Especially since we have a mostly young WR corp who've lacked veteran leadership. I may rag on Landry, but speeches like these are what I believe is necessary for us to shed the losing culture we have had over the past several seasons.

I thought it was also nice they showed players commenting about how good Landry is...meaning they already respect him. His workouts are intense and he's only going to help our young players...

I still have other concerns which I'll leave out because this was a nice post for me on Landry.

I wasn't a fan of the speech either. Everything else that showcased him, however, I liked.

Maybe because none of them are Veterans it may resonate. Most grown men I know are motivated more by what Christian Kirksey did than what Landry did.

I watched the episode last night. I have a couple things I wanted to mention.

1. The coaches convo between Hue and his coordinators is a non-issue, imo. These guys are extremely aggressive, intense, grinding people. I would get bent outta shape if someone "pulled a Hue" on me in a meeting like that, but I'm not an NFL heach coach and don't have the personality required of one. These guys work in a different world, and that's just how things are where they work. I have 0 issue with any of the coaches demeanor across the board. If anything, I was surprised a RB coach so meekly made his point.

2. The thing I did get out of the Hue-Haley exchange, and paired with the Landry tirade, is that we already have multiple data points suggesting that we have a mentally soft team. That's not good. Hard Knocks, intentionally or unintentionally, have highlighted that we have people on our team that are mentally soft (at best) or have checked out (at worst). That's my takeaway, and I think that's way more important to talk about than coaches potentially hurting each others feelings.

3. I liked the little bit they did with Kirksey's drumming cut with the tempo of practice/TC. I thought that was really cool, and was a really creative/artistic way to further show how these guys are humans as well as football players, but in a very positive way. I didn't like the amount of airtime Hue's grief got, but it's a storyline in camp, and if they just glossed over it or ignored it entirely, I think Hard Knocks wouldn't be doing their job. Just a crappy situation with a lot of cameras. Sucks.
3a. I think some (but definitely not all) of the "we're here for you" scenes are fake/forced. That weird, uncomfortable hug between Hue, Dorsey, and those other 2 dudes was for the cameras. If I were to guess, I would think that, normally, this type of situation is handled more like the scene we saw in the Oline room.

4. I guess it should be comforting that Gordon told Hue he'd see him "soon", but anything Gordon says/does other than showing up to camp, or giving a hard date when he will is just aggravating, imo.



I have a question for those that have watched Hard Knocks in the past. Usually, these types of shows tend to follow a very formulaic approach. It can be easy to identify generic character types each season. Can anyone tell me (from the one episode) things that are normal for Hard Knocks, and thing from that first episode that are out of the norm? I think that would be more illuminating than anything.

j/c:



https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1027028663466971137

Yeah I was kinda curious about that. Fry cook.

I agree ... his suggestion was actually a good idea IMO

J/c

Watched it last night on the YouTube link ... thanks to whoever provided it ...

I’ve never watched before and highly doubt i ever will again when this season is over ... just not my cup of tea ...

Thought it was AWESOME ... very cool ... also some things that made me sick cause it shows just what folks will do for $$$$ on both sides ...... my thoughts ...

First off folks need to realize that everyone acts different when the cameras are on ... so take what u see with a grain of salt ...

- Hue should have never been on when he got the phone call ... who approved that to air on both sides makes me sick ... no need for it to be on and it’s NOT GOOD TELEVISION ...

Thats my opinion ... U can disagree with it but U CANT HAVE IT ... *L* ..

- thought Landry’s speech was BS .. love the fact he gave it, loved what he was trying to do ... it just looked forced and staged to me ... i have no clue how it plays with todays youth, i know it wouldn’t have played in any locker room i was ever in ... i also have no clue if that is just who he is .. it was very passionate and i get the feeling thats who he is .. his emotions are worn on his sleeve and always front and center ...

That speech may have been from the heart and played well in that room ... i am an old man and have never met VICE GRIPS so I have no clue if that is who he is ... very passionate and emotional ... if so and it played well with todays youth in that room ... then awesome job Vice Grips ... i could be wrong ...

LOVE LOVE LOVE vice grips ... not a fan of the speech ... unless of course it was better than i thought ...

- loved the highlights of Vice Grips catches ... LOVED IT ... hope he has “blessed” a lot of defenders by the end of the season ..

- loved the Kirksey story about how he became a drummer ... cool stuff ... at least for me ..

- folks trying to read way to much into the clip with the coaches ... that sheds literally no light on how the coaches interact on a daily basis and when the cameras are off or their in a place where there’s no cameras ... i’m SURE they talked/debated/argued/had some heated words over that subject off camera ...

It prolly ended the same way but as anyone involved in coaching knows ... there was more “discussion” about something that important to everyone involved ...

And that happens in almost every coaching room .. sole exception may be Billicheck’s ... prolly way more talking goes on in his room than arguing ... *L* ...

Anyhow ... anyone trying to draw conclusions from that snippet is only fooling themselves ...

- loved seeing the difference between how Chubb and baker were greeted at the airport ... *L* ... it seemed staged but was still funny IMO ...

- loved how Hue made his point to Baker by just asking questions and putting the ball in Bakers court .. good stuff Hue ... same with Ward and Randall ... good stuff Hue ...

Thats about all ...

I'm not a professional coach, but am a varsity coach. I'll say this: the assistants are encouraged (and asked) to provide opinions. Sometimes I take them. Sometimes I reject them. Sometimes it's a mixture of the two.

My point: you could take a clip of ONE suggestion made to me, see me say "no, I'd rather stick with this ..." and a viewer could say "Look, he's so closed minded!!"

It's just one clip. Maybe it's not a fair representation.

Just watched.
Thanks for the video.
Great episode!
I have a bad feeling about Josh Gordon, tho.

Difficult to decipher sarcasm when I see fire hue on almost every post.

Gregg Williams is full of it (but we already knew that):



https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1027028663466971137

He very well could have turned down interviews. Perhaps some were for coordinator, and others may have been for position coach.

maybe he meant college opportunities too

Let's be clear. Memphis trashes Hue all the time. He has been slamming him over and over. I called him on it and is using that hashtag thing to get others to mock me. YTown is encouraging him. Let's encourage bullying.

Hue's mom just died and we are blowing up a reaction from Haley as if that is important. And if Hue would have conceded, the same posters slamming him for his strong stance would say stuff like: "Hue is so soft." "Hue is Haley's puppet."

I get that there are some mean people in this world, but I am shocked that others are condoning their poor behavior.

So what? They need the practice. It's a new O.

You can limit reps.

Maybe we shouldn't play any of them in the exhibition games. The might get hurt.

I just don't see what's wrong with saying to your assistants: "Listen, everyone can dress, but today let's limit: .... "

If they violate that then punish the coaches

Quit.

Not liking Hue because we have 1 win in two years isn't being mean. Poor behavior? This is a message board where people are encouraged to express their opinions. I don't consider your behavior poor because you disagree with my opinion on this matter, or try to shame people because they don't disagree with mine, or at least run lock step with yours.

How about you quit w/your continual biased takes that are fueled by hate.

Don't come on here and spread a hateful agenda and expect me to allow you to run free w/it.

Times are a changin.

Vers over here calling other posters bullies!



Thanks for the laugh.

I hope they are changing....that aren't fueled by hate.


I don't hate Hue. I just don't think he is a good head coach.


It has nothing to do with hate.

Hey guys, I live the in Pittsburgh market, and just wanted to throw out what people are saying over here.

Man, are the local guys tearing apart the Browns about Hard Knocks episode. I mean one local radio station WDVE spent a looong time going over it.

Key observations they have stated :

1. The team is weak and not practicing (why Jarvis had to make speech)
2. Hue Jackson has no idea what he is doing, and Todd Haley was right to push him on practicing guys (for Pitt to side with Haley says something, they hate him). Their point is you are 1-31 with not practicing and saving your guys. Maybe you should push them.
3. The city is a joke as a whole, and the fans are clueless to root for this dumpster fire

and my personal favorite from Tim Benz

"Jarvis is not a playmaker and hes not going to make a big difference on the field"

Yeah, Pittsburgh.......God I cant wait till we shock the world and beat these SOB's week 1 by 2 TD.

I think Hue personally is a great man. I think the players love him, and I think Dorsey actually surprisingly likes him as well.

But this is football, and he has not shown me one single thing that says he is a good HC. And the segment on HK, where he and Haley were talking about practicing, just bolsters my opinion of that. Your 1-31 coddling these guys and not practicing hard and giving days off. Maybe a different approach is best??

WE have all given Landry props for his speech and calling out guys not practicing, yet we don't call out hue for not practicing guys? Seems hypocritical a little bit.

They are yinzers with a declining team, what do you expect?

This. Only fans I have ever come across in the division that shows love are Ravens fans. Outside of that, everyone else hates at any chance they get.

They aren't in decline until they decline.

I remember several years ago when they were "in decline". They weren't.

They reload about as well as any team in football. I don't count them out at all, until I see them falling over eat other and drooling on the ground.

agreed, until they don't have a HOF qb, a all pro (possible HOF rec), and one of the best backs in the league, they will the dragons head of the division.

There declining .... make no mistake about it ... there not re-loading near as well as they used too ....

There D took a major hit with the loss of Shazier ....

Were not quite there yet .... the gap isn’t razor thin just yet, but were not far away ...

9/9 baby .... lets get it on ...

Someone literally sent Coach Williams lozenges

#HardKnocks

https://twitter.com/Browns/status/1027972902854045697

haha good one

2 lbs of lozenges is a lot of lozenges.

And then this arrived later in the day...

The first episode is posted on the official website:

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/video/hard-knocks-training-camp-with-the-cleveland-browns-episode-1

I just listened to Njoku's presser, and he said immediately after he caught the ball on his 1st TD, all he could hear inside his head was 'finish' in Hue's voice.

Hue has a way with his players. I love it.