Although this thread has bent towards HRD KNK, I decided to add this post here because of the OP. Anyway, speaking for myself, as fans we can be superficial in our evaluations because we don't have the knowledge of the game at its highest levels. There are intricacies that just go over our heads.
Case in point: here is a ex-QBs analysis of a play most of us would judge as successful. But it illustrates an area where Baker still has room for improvement.
Good analysis but a bit nitpicky... If that's what he "should have seen" (in under 1 second, I might add), once it was too late, he also immediately moved the LB to his (Baker's) left by keeping his eyes fixed on him. The second he did, he knew it was too late for LB to beat him to the sideline - and immediately (milliseconds) made the decision and ran for the first down.
You can give him whatever grade you want for not recognizing the first opportunity, but he gets an A+ for the immediate secondary decision. Vers?
I get what both the qb and you are saying. It wasn't a big deal.
I think the qb was pointing out that it was a very simple pre-snap read because the LBer was the key w/that particular coverage.
I get what you are saying because Baker still made a positive play out of it.
I didn't notice it during the game because I couldn't see the coverage on TV. It would be really cool to get that All-22 or whatever it is called. I'm just afraid I would spend way too much time on it and never get anything done. LOL
While it is tough to tell while watching on TV, I thought Baker got rid of the ball in a timely manner several times, bought some time when he needed to, and also was late on a some throws. Kinda a mixed bag in that aspect of the game. And before the Baker Brigade gets too upset, I will say this again...........I was impressed w/Baker overall. He exceeded my expectations.
Thanks. It was a solid start for the kid, glad we're not sitting here breaking down 12 of Baker's terrible decisions. Pretty much agree on everything... except the "not getting things done" part. There will be plenty of time to get things done come February lol.
He only ran twice...and they were perfect time to run it was his last option but he did not hesitate when the option came and both had positive results. Both he got first downs and both he was untouched as he took it to the sidelines.
How many times was he sacked...btw how many times was Lamar Jackson sacked who is much more faster and more of a runner?
As for Haley.
I think the OC should have the decision on who the starting QB should be. I don't think he should start yet but he is heading in the right direction at a lot of speed. Without a doubt his arm is much more talented.
I think Hue would be a little more LOYAL to his QB at a fault and I'm a Hue fan. I want TT to start but not an automatic no way can Mayfield be allowed to compete for the spot. In other words I think more so Haley would like to see Mayfield with #1 team reps. so would I if it brings on a controversy so be it. But the kid can play I said that he can win the QB job by September. But I want him to WIN IT not have it given to him and so far nothing has been given to him his entire QB history.
Would Hue want his HC dictating who he should start when he was an OC...let it go Hue if their is a fence situation make the decision but if your OC thinks differently you are creating a problem and I don't like Haley airing it out in public but when they say cameras remember he aired it out exactly where he should as in their coaches meeting but was in public due to Hard Knocks in the first airing...forgot the question at hand in the meeting. I think it was the discipline of the players not practicing???
This is the first time I think...Hue does not have the reigns to run the O and we didn't hire (I got a feeling more a Dorsey choice than Hue) an inexperienced guy where he doesn't get full control of the O like Williams has full control of the D.
Can Hue step back and let Haley run the O or does he feel that he was pushed in that direction. It could be his undoing. Please Hue let your strong minded OC run the O. You can HELP him but should not DICTATE to him.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Yo Diam! Remember our conversation on the Cheerleader....errr...Optimism thread? Do you still not get what I meant when I said the situation at QB and the situation w/Hue could be a huge issue for this year's team? LOL
??? you talking to me. This was a situation of the OC what do you feel that Hue should have complete control. You think the OC should not be able to choose his own QB. And btw I think maybe not so clearly but think he only wishes to give Mayfield MORE REPS with the ones not at this point an issue that he wants Mayfield to start and Hue is preventing him. I think the OC of Haley's experience should be given the right to choose who gets how many reps with the ones.
I know you were probably just clicking. But I like Hue and I like Mayfield just I think this could be a dangerous thing if he becomes to LOYAL to TT. jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Yo Diam! Remember our conversation on the Cheerleader....errr...Optimism thread? Do you still not get what I meant when I said the situation at QB and the situation w/Hue could be a huge issue for this year's team? LOL
The second we took a qb at 1 that was inevitable ... a no-brainer regardless of what happend ...
TT is doing everything hes suppose to and has taken control of the team ... no way is Baker better than him now ... YET ... this was from yesterday ....
Baker Mayfield - QB - Browns
Browns QBs coach Ken Zampese said the team has their plan for Baker Mayfield and are "sticking to it."
Mayfield made some noise with an impressive preseason opener, but it has not changed the Browns thinking at quarterback. Zampese said any talk about Mayfield winning the starting job was "national hype," and coach Hue Jackson said "nothing's changed" at quarterback. Tyrod Taylor is going to start Week 1, but it will be difficult for the coaching staff to keep Mayfield on the bench all season.
Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer Aug 13 - 12:04 PM
The wheels for this were set in motion the second we drafted a qb at 1 and there’s nuttin no one can do about it ... it’ll be an issue until Baker does start ...
No, I was talking to Diam. I simply cited your post as an example of possible problems our team can endure this year.
Btw tab, you obviously didn't read all there is to read about the Haley/Mayfield thing. Peter King has come out and said it never happened. Someone said it as a joke and he believed it.
The bottom line is that I am pretty sure that there is no way in the world that Haley actually said it.
I think the OC should have the decision on who the starting QB should be. I don't think he should start yet but he is heading in the right direction at a lot of speed. Without a doubt his arm is much more talented.
jmho
I think the team made a commitment to Taylor, due to the fact he is in a contract year and is basically a 1 year rental. He would be the starter ( unless everything goes to Hell ) so he could showcase what he could do with decent receivers. I know .. sounds strange .. the Browns having decent receivers. I think the commitment was made to help in the recruitment of future Free Agents, and to keep BS like the Patriots refusing to trade Garropolo to Cleveland because they wanted to do right by him, from happening again. Making Taylor the starter, giving Mayfield the chance to learn without being thrown to the wolves as Kizer was, shows a dedication to the player that is not often seen in sports.
JMHO
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
I think Hue made it pretty clear there would be no competition at the quarterback position. It is tyrod or bust. I dont think Baker ever had a chance to start the opener although some of us were pretty hopeful we would start our new era as soon as game 1. We will have to wait. Right, wrong, or indifferent that is Hues decision.
I think it will be very very difficult for Baker to win the starting job. I also think it will be very very difficult for tyrod to keep the starting job.
Baker is still learning obviously. I also think his learning could be expedited on the field. Baker would be starting for any of the teams that drafted a quarterback in the first round. I even think he'd give Flacco a run in Baltimore. But there's no way he can win the starting job if we don't let him.
#Browns QB @broganroback11 tells @923TheFan @TyrodTaylor told the QB room his name is pronounced “Tuh-rod”. When he was at Virginia Tech, Lee Corso went with “Ty-rod” in production meeting so he just went with it going forward
"I've played with a lot of rookie QBs. A lot of time they look great at practice and in the preseason. Once you start throwing stuff at them that they haven't been coached up on that week, they have a hard time." - Joe Thomas says Browns should start Tyrod Taylor on @dpshow
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
It's going to take time for BM to develop, have not seen anything special of him so far, and what he has been doing will not work on the NFL.
Average/bad arm, taking too much time holding the ball, staring at receivers....
He does not have the frame to be running this much, so stop it already.
You're not really paying attention, are you?
I can't say much of what you said here is true. I don't think Baker necessarily needs time. If we didn't have Tyrod, Mayfield wouldn't have any problems starting. Would he benefit from sitting and watching, sure, who wouldn't, but he could play no problem. And if you think he has an average/bad arm you are definitely not paying attention.
It's going to take time for BM to develop, have not seen anything special of him so far, and what he has been doing will not work on the NFL.
Average/bad arm, taking too much time holding the ball, staring at receivers....
He does not have the frame to be running this much, so stop it already.
You're not really paying attention, are you?
I can't say much of what you said here is true. I don't think Baker necessarily needs time. If we didn't have Tyrod, Mayfield wouldn't have any problems starting. Would he benefit from sitting and watching, sure, who wouldn't, but he could play no problem. And if you think he has an average/bad arm you are definitely not paying attention.
A midget QB running around, who stares at the receivers and has a noodle arm.
He will be destroyed if he ever plays a NFL game like he is playing right now.
He has nothing going for him right now, he is not the type of QB that can carry a team on his back, he does not have the skills nor the arm to do it.
Good thing he has no picks... but what will we acomplish by running on 3rd and 10....
There isn't anything you just said that is remotely true.
Award him 0 points.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I've been one of Baker Mayfield to the Browns' earliest supporters,
But if BRM thinks he's going to showboat like he did when he threw that 2nd TD in preseason game #1 and run down to the end zone, and hoist the receiver up in the air
If he thinks he's going to continue to do that, when the games count verses NFL defenses, then he's going to be on the wrong end of an injury faster than you can say "look out Baker".
I'd advise him to get like Brett Favre and make friends with the defensive pass rushers. Showing up the worlds best athletes to give them extra motivation to pummel you, is not smart.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
Honestly, I don't understand the frustrations with Baker Mayfield. I wasn't his biggest fan in the draft, but he's looked pretty damn good so far. He was excellent in week one, and in a more difficult situation in week two, he looked poised and played really well. Some penalties and mistakes put him in difficult situations all night, and he handled them all.
Still, he had a big play taken off the board following a drop (thrown slightly behind, but very catchable) to Orson Charles, a TD taken off the board for OPI, and another TD taken off the board because the receiver's knee narrowly hit out of bounds.
This could have easily been another 2 TD performance for Mayfield, and would have been a 100 yard performance without some mistakes. That isn't to suggest Mayfield was perfect, but the numbers don't represent how good he looked.
He's clearly a rookie who needs time: Frankly, I think that applies to this entire class. But he's checking all the boxes at the moment. But Baker certainly stands out as looking poised. He's undoubtedly talented, and I think he's looked the best rookie QB so far.
I know, I'm about to use stats and, worst of all, preseason stats, but I think it's worth noting:
Mayfield is currently 7th in the NFL in passing yards. Every single one of those players ahead is an established veteran, and all but two have more attempts than Mayfield. Three of them are damn near double Mayfield's attempts. Without the OPI and failure to get feet in bounds, he'd be second in touchdowns. 37 quarterbacks have thrown interceptions; Mayfield isn't one of them.
He's the first overall pick running the second team, but you can only play the men on the other side of the field, and those are pretty impressive numbers for a kid who isn't going to be our starting quarterback.
So far, so good. I'd think we should all be encouraged by what we've seen. It isn't the regular season, but I'm not going to penalize Mayfield for not performing in a situation which takes place in the future.
If anyone is interested in a recap, the game is up on YouTube.
The thing BDU, is that what he has been showing isn't why we drafted him in the first place.
He is not showing to be an efficient QB, maybe its not his fault, but people shouldn't be praising attributes that don't even factor in the equation, like his mobility....
And honestly, it has been a while since I've seen a QB staring that long at the receivers, and you know that's a big no-no in the NFL.
He's taking time to recognize the windows, it shows and its not good,because its not why someone made him the #1 pick in the draft.
I don't wan't to see him throwing to open receivers and waiting for them to be open, I want to see him moving the chains and completing 70% of the passes, that's what I expect from Mayfield.
And I love PTF, who made him the #1 QB in the draft because of the stats, and now are saying they don't matter.... now that's being coherent.
And by the way, its now clear that his arm is pathetic. Its not a #1 arm, by no means.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Yeah, he is. As of today, Baker has shown us why he is the future, but he hasn't shown us why he's the present
First game, he had Callaway and Njuko. He did well.. Very well for the first time in an NFL game.
Second game, not as good but still good. But he didn't have 1st teamers with him this time.
What Skip is suggesting is exactly what happened with Tim Couch. The plan was NOT to play Tim for a while. He was pressed into service in the second game and got clobbered and IMO, it ruined him. Sacked over 100 times in his first two years. That's just crazy.
The coach at the time (chris Palmer) didn't want to but had to relent under public and internal pressures to do what he probably knew wasn't smart.
I like the plan of starting Taylor and letting Mayfield a sit and learn and grow.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Browns general manager John Dorsey also said he couldn't imagine a situation where Mayfield would take the starting job from Taylor.
"This is for the betterment not only of the organization long term, but it's also better for the development of Baker, in terms of when it comes time for him to actually step on the field and play," Dorsey told Pelissero. "... Guess what? He understands the complexities of a very difficult position. I think the adjustment will be that much easier for him to be able to recognize defense, understand the speed of the game. I think it's just a natural transition into that position. And why vary from the plan we have in motion right now?"
Your not going to see Baker Mayfield in rhe regular season barring a disaster (both Taylor and Stanton are hurt)
Dorsey has been adamant that they are sticking to the plan. That plan involves Mayfield sitting and learning this year.
It doesn't matter how much the fans or the media whines about it. Dorsey is not going to get fired after one year. Haslam has signed off on Dorsey, Highsmith, and Wolf's plan to sit and develop Baker this year and nothing is going to get in the way of that.
Tyrod will have us competitive this year, we may actually sniff .500 this year. This will be good for this organization. Mayfield is not ready. Preseason is nothing more then a glorified practice, it isn't an actual game that matters. Mayfield needs time. If Mayfield actually gets to sit a year, i think he may end up being the answer, but he isn't the answer this year.
Dudes either a bovine ass or he knows zero about sports ... or he’s both cause he’s definetly a bovine ass ... he may actually know sumptin about sports and the dumb ass crap he says is just his schticht ...
down?
