its not that i take him THAT seriously, but i really like the dialogue that goes on that show, and shannon sharpe is a really great analyst.
i like the debate structure they have, and i find myself watching FS1 way more than espn lately.
plus its good for us to hear what the national media guys are saying, regardless on if we agree with them or not.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Hue Jackson reiterates Baker Mayfield won't get 1st team reps
BEREA, Ohio -- Hue Jackson emphatically re-iterated Monday that Baker Mayfield won't get any first-team reps this preseason.
"No, no, no, no, no,'' he said. "Everybody's asked me that a ton of times. Why? I'm going to tell you the reason why. We are learning a new system, and I think Tyrod needs every rep that he can get with the ones.
"I think Baker's doing outstanding with the twos. If something happens and we need to put him there, we will. Right now, that hasn't happened."
Geez, I don't know why this is a problem. TT is our starter, no matter how much BS speculation the media wants to throw out there. Tyrod needs the reps with the ones.
Geez, I don't know why this is a problem. TT is our starter, no matter how much BS speculation the media wants to throw out there. Tyrod needs the reps with the ones.
It's their job to ask. Hue Jackson has been known to say dumb things, he is the perfect person to press on this. He is doing a great job staying consistent. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts if Tyrod Taylor has two or three bad game in a row during the regular season.
Actually, Tim replaced Detmer at halftime of the first game. I was at the game.
I am not against Baker sitting for a while, and I agree that it will be easier for Hue to go to Baker rather than pull Baker 3-4-5 games in....he knows that 4-5 wins this year isn't going to do it for him to remain a head coach.
If we are 1-3 or 2 and 5, it's Baker time. It has to be,
My only beef is the guy needs some work with the 1's. Maybe he is starting to get some of that now that open camp is over and practices are closed. But probably not since friggen HBO is all over the place.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
If they committed to TT for the whole season no matter what, they should be fired.
I don't see how any coach or GM/front office type can approach the game that way.
I get Hues position. He needs to win, and not just a few games. His position is he is going to play the odds and play the vet. I would too if in his position, thus why I don't have a problem with Mayfield on the bench. I get it.
What I don't like is the fearful attitude to not look at him with the 1's and playing against the best.
That doesn't mean you are going to play him out of the gate. That just means you are trying to develop a QB. That is a part of it.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I don't agree w/rasta about most things regarding Baker, but he hit on a point or two that most are ignoring.
My early evaluations:
--He holds the ball too long.
--He absolutely has a plus arm.
--He sometimes loses arm strength when his footwork breaks down. Throwing the ball w/your feet horizontal to the target is a huge no-no.
--He is very poised for a rookie.
--He displays great confidence in himself.
--His accuracy has been very good.
--He is not making easy pre-snap reads. We can blame that on his stupid collegiate offense.
--He is staring down receivers waiting for them to break open rather than quickly going through his progressions. This is beyond concerning. I pray it is just a coincidence, but if he can't make these post-snap reads quickly, he'll never amount to much.
Vers,I know I'm being provocative, but like I have stated many times before, we are talking about the #1 pick in the draft, so the expectations have to be HIGH.
I honestly don't like his pocket presence, he has happy feet, does not show the confidence I associate with poise, does not show the calm or demeanor you can see in Rosen, Deshaun Watson or Wentz to name a few, where the presence was poised.
BM with all the happy feet thing, which really annoys me, transmits this lack of confidence on the OL, like he is expecting the OL to break.
Has BM thrown or attempted a long pass? An yes his arm is OK when his platform is stable, but that's not when you show the natural arm strength... He is not a Favre IMHO, he is showing some problems when he is moving.
Its quite evident to me that he is used to big windows, that was a point in his assessment that many neglected. He is staring at receivers and waiting for them to get open. Even on plays the receiver is open, he takes too much time to recognize.
Just take a look at Rosen's, Darnold's footage and its quite evident the difference is processing speed.
Now it would all be OK if we didn't make him the first round pick because of his ability to be efficient. I mean I think all QB's at this level can be accurate if they take time to make the throws.
All and all if we were talking about a project QB, I would be happy with the performance, but we are talking Franchise QB difference maker, SB winner...I'm comparing BM to Wentz, Deshaun, Wilson... and Rosen
Honestly I don't think any Bills fan would trade BM for Allen, and for sure no Cardinals fan would trade Rosen...
I think Baker has a good arm. He zips the ball in there. You don't need to have a canon like Rodgers. I think Baker's arm is stronger than average. It's not a concern at all.
I think he has shown good accuracy for the most part. Think about the TD pass to Callaway. That was pin-point accuracy.
I would not say he has "happy feet" in the pocket. He has a technique that calls for quick, choppy feet to move around in the pocket. You can tell he was taught that because most qb coaches teach those drills all the time.
I do think he is staring down receivers and holding the ball too long. Those are my two concerns.
Vers,I know I'm being provocative, but like I have stated many times before, we are talking about the #1 pick in the draft, so the expectations have to be HIGH.
I honestly don't like his pocket presence, he has happy feet, does not show the confidence I associate with poise, does not show the calm or demeanor you can see in Rosen, Deshaun Watson or Wentz to name a few, where the presence was poised.
BM with all the happy feet thing, which really annoys me, transmits this lack of confidence on the OL, like he is expecting the OL to break.
Has BM thrown or attempted a long pass? An yes his arm is OK when his platform is stable, but that's not when you show the natural arm strength... He is not a Favre IMHO, he is showing some problems when he is moving.
Its quite evident to me that he is used to big windows, that was a point in his assessment that many neglected. He is staring at receivers and waiting for them to get open. Even on plays the receiver is open, he takes too much time to recognize.
Just take a look at Rosen's, Darnold's footage and its quite evident the difference is processing speed.
Now it would all be OK if we didn't make him the first round pick because of his ability to be efficient. I mean I think all QB's at this level can be accurate if they take time to make the throws.
All and all if we were talking about a project QB, I would be happy with the performance, but we are talking Franchise QB difference maker, SB winner...I'm comparing BM to Wentz, Deshaun, Wilson... and Rosen
Honestly I don't think any Bills fan would trade BM for Allen, and for sure no Cardinals fan would trade Rosen...
You have just laid the groundwork reasons why it is IMPERATIVE that Mayfield sit this year.
I Think Mayfield has the potential to be great, he does. Thats only going to happen though if we develop him. He is by no means ready to be a starting QB in the NFL right now.
Tom Brady once said:
"Had i been a starter my rookie year; I may not even be in the league"
that is the GOAT of Qb telling you that even he wasn't ready to play as a rookie. Its really unreasonable to expect Baker to be ready to play this year.
In an ideal situation, the only playing time Mayfield gets this year is half of a quarter in the last game of the year that doesn't matter anyways if we win or lose. to just give him a small taste...nothing more.
Tyrod Taylor is lightyears ahead of Mayfield, and he should be as a Pro Bowl QB. He recognizes coverages better, won't be baited into throwing easy picks, doens't have happy feet, throws with a good base under him, etc.
Mayfield will get there, he will. We just gotta stick with the plan, be patient, and let Mayfield develop and come along at a reasonable pace. We do that, and Mayfield really has the chance of being our Qb answer.
I think Baker has a good arm. He zips the ball in there. You don't need to have a canon like Rodgers. I think Baker's arm is stronger than average. It's not a concern at all.
I think he has shown good accuracy for the most part. Think about the TD pass to Callaway. That was pin-point accuracy.
I would not say he has "happy feet" in the pocket. He has a technique that calls for quick, choppy feet to move around in the pocket. You can tell he was taught that because most qb coaches teach those drills all the time.
I do think he is staring down receivers and holding the ball too long. Those are my two concerns.
I see him looking off safeties and get to check downs off his primary on most plays. A few times I have seen him get through progressions, the TD to Njoku is a good example. I would meet you in the middle and say I think he is trying to get through his progressions but it’s happening way too slow. It should speed up as time goes on and if not, we have problems.
I think it's a bad idea to be so adamant about Baker NEVER getting reps with the 1's in pre-season. TT is not a big guy and was knocked out of the last game he played. There is a good chance that Baker will need to play meaningful minutes this year. I'd prefer that not be the case due to injury, but injuries are part of the game.
If Hue - once again - does not play his starters in pre-season game #4, then this business about TT 'needing all the reps he can get' will be complete BS and simply an effort to stave off the stupid questions from reporters.
Backup QBs get limited reps with the 1s regularly. I think that's part of getting the TEAM ready for the regular season.
I would give Baker about 20-25% of first team reps. I just wouldn't give him a single one when open to the press if my plan is to keep Baker in check for 2018. I still see some folks talking about Baker's arm. Baker has a really good arm, he just doesn't overpower it when he doesn't have to. He has excellent touch and throws a very catchable ball. He changes velocity to meet the situation.
Progressions, he is going through them but he is just really slow at it still but hey not long ago, he was one read and run, Now he is working the pocket eyes downfield and making the good throw,
I would rip the bandaide off and play Baker but Hue, Dorsey and Haley have a plan and they are sticking to it. If we can establish that we are a running team that plays devastating defense before Baker takes over then his odds of success skyrocket.
Baker never worked from under center and he has not tripped over linemen. He hasn't bobbled snaps. He isn't doing a 7 step drop when the line is setting for 3. This is very impressive,
His pocket presence has been amazing. Sure he is holding the ball to long but I see him manipulate the pocket like a Manning or Brees,
Anyway, I cant complain how the staff is handling things because Baker on a scale of 1-20 of being ready day 1 was imho probably a 5 coming out, We haven't reached our first game yet and I see a rookie that would probably be a 12 on that scale now.
We are talking about the #1 pick in the draft, so the expectations have to be HIGH.
No, they really don't have to be high.
I notice you mention Carson Wentz later as a standard you compare Mayfield to, but ignore that Wentz struggled greatly as a rookie. 16 TD to 14 INT and 9 fumbles.
And that's ignoring that Wentz;
1. Did so on a team one year removed from winning the superbowl WITHOUT HIM.
2. Started the year hot with 9 TD to 3 INT. Once teams got a book on him, the remainder of the season was a disaster for all the reasons you listed for Mayfield.
And I notice you use Wentz because, well, we know what happened to the first overall quarterback. Pro-Bowl in year two, but Goff's rookie year was a disaster. His entire rookie preseason was literally worse than Baker Mayfield's debut.
I'm not even kidding on Mayfield's preseason debut being better than Goff's entire rookie preseason.
Just for clarity, too, Wentz played one game in the preseason. He threw a pick, had 89 yards on 24 attempts and then got hurt. His preseason debut was pretty horrific.
Of all the issues you've listed for Mayfield, half are exaggerated, and all are undoubtedly, irrefutably common issues for any young signal caller. I'm guessing that's why he's framed against successful franchise quarterbacks.
Russell Wilson has become the most head-scratching example of rookie expectations: The guy arrived in the NFL from a pro-style pedigree, at a time in which the zone-read was unstoppable, with the league's top rushing offense and the league's best defence. Wilson's rookie season was largely a result of circumstance: So much so that even an experienced, polished Wilson has struggled to replicate that success.
We're talking about Baker Mayfield, and like all rookies, his situation should be viewed individually as opposed to being compared against incomparable instances of high-achieving rookies.
Mayfield isn't perfect, but it's utterly bizarre to see the start of his NFL career being framed in anything but a positive light. He's only played in two games, but in each he's protected the ball, moved the chains and made some fantastic plays. He does not look overwhelmed, seems to have a firm grasp of the offense already and has highlighted things we should be excited for: He's going through progressions, making pre-snap reads, he's looked fantastic in the pocket and has shown fantastic accuracy.
If I had a dollar for every rookie who I could point out had happy feet, I'd have, well, how many rookie quarterbacks have played in the NFL? A dollar for every rookie who stared down a receiver? Again, a dollar for literally every rookie who has played.
I've taken a look at Rosen and Darnold's tape: Neither have looked as good as Mayfield and both have highlighted every issue you raise for Mayfield: And I say that as someone whose "Darnold or Rosen for the #1 pick" posts remain in the draft section.
Honestly, I feel like you're just searching for reasons to cut this kid down. You're taking common, standard college-to-NFL issues, from Mayfield first two NFL preseason starts, and presenting them as major weaknesses in his game.
Personally, I cannot remember the last rookie who didn't have these issues. Luck has probably been the best in the last decade, and he threw a buttload of interceptions because he telegraphed his throws while staring down his receivers and completed only 54% of his passes because he got happy feet and threw too many passes off base.
For once, it'd be nice if this team could stick with a young quarterback through the growing pains rather than tearing them down because they're not Canton bound by their third time setting foot on an NFL field.
Haley just got here this year. It's a new O for everyone. Splitting reps between QB's will do nothing but take away important reps the team needs to implement the new system.
It seems the choice is pretty clear. Get the first team completely ready, or split the reps and get two QB's half ready with the rest of the O.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
We are talking about the #1 pick in the draft, so the expectations have to be HIGH.
No, they really don't have to be high.
I notice you mention Carson Wentz later as a standard you compare Mayfield to, but ignore that Wentz struggled greatly as a rookie. 16 TD to 14 INT and 9 fumbles.
And that's ignoring that Wentz;
1. Did so on a team one year removed from winning the superbowl WITHOUT HIM.
2. Started the year hot with 9 TD to 3 INT. Once teams got a book on him, the remainder of the season was a disaster for all the reasons you listed for Mayfield.
And I notice you use Wentz because, well, we know what happened to the first overall quarterback. Pro-Bowl in year two, but Goff's rookie year was a disaster. His entire rookie preseason was literally worse than Baker Mayfield's debut.
I'm not even kidding on Mayfield's preseason debut being better than Goff's entire rookie preseason.
Just for clarity, too, Wentz played one game in the preseason. He threw a pick, had 89 yards on 24 attempts and then got hurt. His preseason debut was pretty horrific.
Of all the issues you've listed for Mayfield, half are exaggerated, and all are undoubtedly, irrefutably common issues for any young signal caller. I'm guessing that's why he's framed against successful franchise quarterbacks.
Russell Wilson has become the most head-scratching example of rookie expectations: The guy arrived in the NFL from a pro-style pedigree, at a time in which the zone-read was unstoppable, with the league's top rushing offense and the league's best defence. Wilson's rookie season was largely a result of circumstance: So much so that even an experienced, polished Wilson has struggled to replicate that success.
We're talking about Baker Mayfield, and like all rookies, his situation should be viewed individually as opposed to being compared against incomparable instances of high-achieving rookies.
Mayfield isn't perfect, but it's utterly bizarre to see the start of his NFL career being framed in anything but a positive light. He's only played in two games, but in each he's protected the ball, moved the chains and made some fantastic plays. He does not look overwhelmed, seems to have a firm grasp of the offense already and has highlighted things we should be excited for: He's going through progressions, making pre-snap reads, he's looked fantastic in the pocket and has shown fantastic accuracy.
If I had a dollar for every rookie who I could point out had happy feet, I'd have, well, how many rookie quarterbacks have played in the NFL? A dollar for every rookie who stared down a receiver? Again, a dollar for literally every rookie who has played.
I've taken a look at Rosen and Darnold's tape: Neither have looked as good as Mayfield and both have highlighted every issue you raise for Mayfield: And I say that as someone whose "Darnold or Rosen for the #1 pick" posts remain in the draft section.
Honestly, I feel like you're just searching for reasons to cut this kid down. You're taking common, standard college-to-NFL issues, from Mayfield first two NFL preseason starts, and presenting them as major weaknesses in his game.
Personally, I cannot remember the last rookie who didn't have these issues. Luck has probably been the best in the last decade, and he threw a buttload of interceptions because he telegraphed his throws while staring down his receivers and completed only 54% of his passes because he got happy feet and threw too many passes off base.
For once, it'd be nice if this team could stick with a young quarterback through the growing pains rather than tearing them down because they're not Canton bound by their third time setting foot on an NFL field.
It was clear in the cases I mentioned that this QB prospects would become Franchise QB's basing it only in pre-season games, talking bout poise, composure and reaction speed.
You can choose to ignore and pretend Baker has even hinted such level of proficiency. So far to me he looked like a better Colt McCoy and worst than Manziel.
And again, I'm not bashing BM, my level of expectation is apparently much higher than the rest of BM fans,which is strange, since they had so many good things to say about him.
Honestly all that I'm seeing are excuses for very average performances, and no explanations for the evident problems he is showing.
And people had no problem tearing other QB's, why should they... specially one that had so many problems to start with, its not like BM i going to grow taller or develop a cannon arm.
And we have all seen that there is so much that the game can slow down for some Qb's.... just saying....
Just curious, but are there any teams with a defined starting QB that give first team reps to the backup? Just doesn't seem like something that is done in the NFL. The only time there are splits, to my recollection, are in open competitions, which our coach & GM have said from the start is NOT the case here and now.
NFL starters get almost all the reps w/the ones. Factor in that we have a new OC, new qb, new WRs, new RBs, and new offensive linemen...............why the hell would Hue NOT want to give Taylor all the reps?
It's just another thing for the Hue Hate Club to chastise him for.
I think there are some Browns fans who are actually hoping Baker fails so they can say they were "right".
No,hoping for just some hint that I was wrong....
And if BM fans are honest, they will agree with me, so far he has not showed why he was the #1 pick.
I don't need a super game, just a glimpse..
Because my assumption is that we made him number one because he was special, he was efficient, accurate, and most of all an intelligent fast reaction QB...
Well, I'm not seeing anything of that, quite the contrary. Not saying he is bad.... just saying not enough to be #1.
Rosen on the other hand is proving his fans right...
And I'm not even saying anything about Ward and Chubb, because....
NFL starters get almost all the reps w/the ones. Factor in that we have a new OC, new qb, new WRs, new RBs, and new offensive linemen...............why the hell would Hue NOT want to give Taylor all the reps?
It's just another thing for the Hue Hate Club to chastise him for.
If anything Taylor and Landry are proving themselves right, so far so good, I would even say very good.
So, Baker has shown you nothing indicative of a franchise QB, but Rosen has done so? Wow. Well, good luck with that take. Baker's movement in the pocket has looked elite to my eyes. He has shown a natural feel there that some franchise guys don't. He still has a million things to work on, but I'm not sure how you can miss that.
I don't have a link for that, so it isn't really a confirmation. It's more like that is what I have heard coaches say over years and years of following the NFL.
I also think Hue is playing it smart by cutting off the questions from reporters about Baker getting first team reps. Let's face it, Baker was the first overall pick in the draft and many media members and fans want to see him play. Hue, like any other coach, knows that a QB controversy can rip a team apart. I think he is justifiably trying to squelch the talk a bit.
I don't think it's because he is stupid, stubborn, clueless, or ill-prepared as some of our posters want us to believe.
So, Baker has shown you nothing indicative of a franchise QB, but Rosen has done so? Wow. Well, good luck with that take. Baker's movement in the pocket has looked elite to my eyes. He has shown a natural feel there that some franchise guys don't. He still has a million things to work on, but I'm not sure how you can miss that.
So HAPPY FEET is now superior pocket presence? Maybe staring at receivers and holding on to the ball is also a show for pocket presence....
Pocket presence is being there with a purpose and knowing what you are doing, see Rosen play for example.
Pocket presence is staying calm and collected in the pocket, not looking like the pocket is going to collapse in any moment, ala Brady Quinn and the constant fake pumps...
Hey maybe he is always jumping because he can't see past his lineman... never understood the thing about him standing tall playing on his toes...
If anything, this Hard Knocks show has been a real/true picture of the kinda person and coach Hue is.. I actually feel better about him now that I've watched him work behind the scenes...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I tried to explain to you that Baker doesn't have happy feet. It's how many QB coaches teach guys during drills. Short, quick, choppy steps to buy time in the pocket. That aspect of his footwork has been impressive.
I will say that his feet occasionally get out of whack when throwing the ball, but that has nothing to do w/having happy feet.
The other thing I want to bring up again is you have repeatedly said that Baker has a "noodle arm." That is simply not true.
I am not a Baker fan buoy by any stretch of the imagination, but it's not cool to fabricate things.
Baker's feet remind me a lot of Peyton Manning. He had those same chopppy steps in the pocket, moving and resetting, feeling pressure while keeping his eyes down the field, and while keeping his feet in proper position to pass. I am not saying that he is Manning, but it looks like the studied tape of him. (And Brees as well)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I tried to explain to you that Baker doesn't have happy feet. It's how many QB coaches teach guys during drills. Short, quick, choppy steps to buy time in the pocket. That aspect of his footwork has been impressive.
I will say that his feet occasionally get out of whack when throwing the ball, but that has nothing to do w/having happy feet.
The other thing I want to bring up again is you have repeatedly said that Baker has a "noodle arm." That is simply not true.
I am not a Baker fan buoy by any stretch of the imagination, but it's not cool to fabricate things.
Interesting because I never saw elite QB's do it.... Nor any commentator refer to Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Alex Smith has having happy feet.
And BM is not supposed to buy time, he is a high completion, quick throw, accurate and efficient QB. Ala JG
He is a West coast /Air raid, dink donk QB. If you wanted a QB to buy time you don't go and draft Baker, you draft Darnold.
And what's most, BM does not have the arm to play like Favre or even Manziel, so buying time is immaterial.
Take a closer look, and just watch the time he takes to recognize the free receiver and make the play, he is used to large throwing windows, and it shows, and that's why he's holding on to the ball.
See how Rosen and Darnold react to plays, even Allen showed it in some plays.
Baker's feet remind me a lot of Peyton Manning. He had those same chopppy steps in the pocket, moving and resetting, feeling pressure while keeping his eyes down the field, and while keeping his feet in proper position to pass. I am not saying that he is Manning, but it looks like the studied tape of him. (And Brees as well)
I would call it staring at his receivers until he gets open, you call it keeping the eyes downfield....There is a world of difference.
Good point. I remember Peyton spending one entire off-season working on those types of drills to improve his mobility w/in the pocket. He made it clear that he wasn't a runner, but he wanted to move around in the pocket to buy time and he worked on it all off-season.
Check out this video w/former Buckeye OC, Todd Herman. He is explaining his QB footwork drills. It looks familiar, huh? LOL
Leads draft-eligible quarterbacks in time to throw. Used to sitting behind a great offensive line that gives him that time. Keeps trying to buy time when he should throw the ball away. ~ Susceptible to developing happy feet in the pocket. ~ Gets very restless under pressure. Begins looking around for the rush instead of sensing it, begins rushing his process. ~ Height is below the preferred threshold. ~ Age is suboptimal but not alarming. ~ Character is questionable. Has a temper (made a lewd gesture against Kansas in 2017). Arrested in February 2017 for public intoxication."
It's not like its news.
When the bad on scouting reports shows, you have to admit it.
And how the hell is BM even close to playing like Payton Manning...
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Good point. I remember Peyton spending one entire off-season working on those types of drills to improve his mobility w/in the pocket. He made it clear that he wasn't a runner, but he wanted to move around in the pocket to buy time and he worked on it all off-season.
Check out this video w/former Buckeye OC, Todd Herman. He is explaining his QB footwork drills. It looks familiar, huh? LOL
Yep. Very familiar.
It appears the Baker is a good student. He is doing well with his footwork, pocket awareness, staying on base, and moving as opposed to just running. He also looks like a seasoned pro under Center, which is something he almost never did at Oklahoma. I am extremely impressed with his progress in these 2 areas, especially.
I truly think that he could start immediately, and be OK. However, I also think that having a year with Zampese and Stanton will help him tremendously.
I wanted Darnold, but I have always said that Baker could be ab average type starting QB. His willingness to learn and drill skills makes me believe that he just might be a whole lot more.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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