I hope there are a couple good solid vet WR's we can sign after cuts. We are one injury away from being in trouble at the position. Landry is the one guy we can't lose. If he gets hurt we have nothing to fall back on. There should be some vets cut loose soon. Pick up a couple just in case.
For everybody you pick up, you have somebody to cut. Realistically, how many receivers can we keep?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
The Athletic's Jeff Zrebiec reports the Ravens "are bracing for" a multi-week suspension for CB Jimmy Smith.
Apparently, the team is already aware of the ban, and Smith is currently appealing it with the league. It stems from a violation of the personal conduct policy. Smith has been involved in a custody battle, and his ex accused him of illegal drug use and domestic violence last year, though no criminal charges have been handed down in the matter. Smith has missed 17 games over the past four years and was suspended four games last year for a PEDs violation.
I think that Dorsey did a great job of making trades and using FA to upgrade the roster. However, I do think it's pretty evident [if you are really watching] that our depth is poor.
I am not saying that as a criticism of Dorsey. It just takes some time to revamp such a crummy roster. I actually think he has worked some miracles, thus I will be patient w/him as he continues to improve the roster.
no doubt I understand your analogy ... yes, playing a few backup guys with the 1st team is not as stark of a difference as playing the entire 2nd string
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I think that Dorsey did a great job of making trades and using FA to upgrade the roster. However, I do think it's pretty evident [if you are really watching] that our depth is poor.
I am not saying that as a criticism of Dorsey. It just takes some time to revamp such a crummy roster. I actually think he has worked some miracles, thus I will be patient w/him as he continues to improve the roster.
I think we're already improving quite a bit. We're seeing guys getting pushed down the roster, which we would've never seen before. Both Colemans, TJ Carrie, either Kindred or Peppers... all of those guys have not or would not have been pushed to 2nd team in the past (as recently as last year). Previous regimes seemed to only churn the bottom of the roster to find guys that would rise up, but Dorsey has made some really good moves to bring talented guys in. Taylor, Landry, Gaines, Randall are really strategic gets. Not all were huge moves, but the Randall and Gaines acquisitions really "righted the ship" in terms of our defense. 2 people look like they're going to make a huge difference with this defense.
Add: to be clear, I'm not disagreeing with you. Our depth is poor, but we're improving.
Last edited by oobernoober; 08/21/1809:41 AM. Reason: Clarification
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
"Landry has no doubt in his mind Gordon will be ready for the opener Sept. 9 against the Steelers. "Yeah, I mean why not?'' said Landry. "He's been training this whole time, so we expect him to be ready. I'm sure he will be, but at the end of the day, we're just happy to have him back."
That didn't seem to be his attitude during his fiery speech on E1 of Hard Knocks. Kind of hypocritical to scream at the WR room about how practice is SO important but then state that meathead doesn't need any practice at all to be ready for the Steelers.
New Offense? Yes New Quarterbacks? Every single one of them. Reps that Gordon got with our new QB's in the new offense during camp? Zero. Sure he'll be ready for the Steelers...
I think he's in great shape, he sure looks lean in the recent pics, but I highly doubt he's in football shape. I highly doubt he can run route after route full go for most a game.
He's been training the whole time he was away; I see no reason he wouldn't be able to be in peak shape right now, with none of the dings and bruises of guys that have been taking hits.
He'll be fine. I'm still surprised they aren't dressing him for Thursday, but I suspect that they are doing cram sessions in the classroom & film room to get him up to speed. I would bet that this is where he needs to get caught up, not anything physically.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I’m hoping he gets cleared for practice Saturday or Sunday .... what ever day our first practice is after this game .... that’ll give him 2 full weeks of practice before 9/9 ... that’ll be more than enough time to carve out a role for him in the opener if not a full compliment of snaps ...
We are going to cut guys who will get signed by other teams. Our depth is probably better than it's been STR. What position group has a glaring lack of depth? I'd say none.
We have (2) DTs dinged up at the same time...leaving us with no depth there today. Those guys will return.
Our starting RG is injured, but we could do worse than Drango, Reiter & Robinson as our 6-8 with a developmental guy in Harrison at 9. OL depth is a league-wide problem.
WR depth is all dependent upon Gordon and Callaway being eligible to play. Gordon, Landry, Higgins & Callaway make up a solid (4) with Duke being in that mix in certain packages.
Our backup TE is injured, but is a good backup TE. He will return.
I'm not all that concerned with our depth. It will be interesting to see what we do after league-wide cutdowns.
No doubt our 2nd team as a whole is poor, but I don't know that the depth is all that poor.
We would need to go position by position. Some position groups seem to have 2-3 players who are pretty good players.
DL and LB are in good shape. We could use a better corner.
On O...The QBs are unproven so I am not going to say it's good, but I don't think it is bad.
OL...we are pretty good on the interior with guys like Drango, Reiter...outside is a question mark...no doubt we need to upgrade there.
I am good with the receivers and backs.
As I said earlier, let's see how the depth looks after camp cuts. There are going to be several vets cut who no longer match their starting pay. We are bound to look real hard at the corners cut and the OL, with the eye on tackles who are cut.
On the bright side, this Desmond Harrison seems to be making a push at tackle, though some of that could be the other guys aren't that good.
It's a pretty good bet that in next years draft a OT is going to be selected and another corner.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I think our depth is better this year than any other year previous. 1-90 it might not be the best, but 1-53 should be pretty solid this year.
What position group do we lack depth at? FS maybe, and maybe DT with guys being hurt.
QB we have a #1 overall draft pick as a back-up. RB depth is good. WR is good 4-deep as long as Gordon and Callaway stay eligible. Tight-end has options. I like our next 3 backups for OL. We have 4 starting LBs. We have rotational DE guys. We brought in like 3-4 new corners
I agree that the lack of depth is overstated a bit. As was pointed out, entire units don't need to be on the field ever, so preseason performance as a unit is irrelevant.
What position, if we suffered a season-ending injury, would put us in a big hole?
The ones I see are FS, MLB, DT, OT, C. (Also kinda DE, as noone could really replace what Garrett's doing).
Last year, you could've added, SS, plus the positions that had big holes before injury, and are now solidified to a large degree (CB, QB, WR).
BEREA, Ohio -- The Browns put the wraps on training camp Tuesday morning. It was the first camp in a while around here without a true quarterback competition and, frankly, it was the first camp in a while in which the offense won on a consistent basis.
The team moves on to its dress rehearsal game Thursday night against the defending Super Bowl Champion Eagles. The first team is expected to play at least the entire first half before handing things off the second unit and, of course, Baker Mayfield.
Let's take a look back at training camp: 18 points in honor of 18 days.
Jarvis Landry and the receivers
1. Landry dropped a routine catch on Tuesday and there might have been a moment where the coaching staff considered just canceling the rest of practice it was that shocking.
Landry spent camp catching almost everything that came his way. He even, at one point, casually snagged a pad nearly as tall as him that a running back sent flying through the air during a drill while Landry was walking past.
2. Landry came over from Miami with a reputation among some for catching a lot of footballs but not for many yards per catch. The thing is, there hasn't been a receiver as reliable as Landry here since ... well ... I'm drawing a blank, at least as far as this new era of the Browns goes. Again, he catches everything. And I think we'll see that yards per catch average climb this year as well.
3. I'm not much for doling out fantasy advice, but I'll tell you this: If you're in a PPR league, draft Landry.
4. Then there was that block Landry threw against Buffalo that helped spring Carlos Hyde's touchdown.
"That kind of shows the mentality that he has the culture that he's bringing into that room," rookie left guard Austin Corbett said. "He's laying his body on the line for our team, and he's going to make plays at the same time."
What I'm trying to say here is Jarvis Landry won training camp. Easily.
5. As for the other receivers -- the ones not named Josh Gordon -- it's hard not to like what Rashard Higgins has done. Damion Ratley has impressed, too. I mentioned Da'Mari Scott in this post from Friday night's Bills game. He's an under-the-radar guy who has had a nice connection with Baker Mayfield.
The quarterbacks
6. A lot is being made of the decision not to give Mayfield first-team reps. I don't see an issue, honestly. Mayfield has worked with select first-teamers already and worked against the first-team defense. If he's needed, he'll be ready and he'll be fine.
In the meantime, the Browns are actually getting ready to play a real football game instead of trying to figure out their quarterback situation. It's a welcome change.
Mayfield's time will come and I think it will come at some point this season. Just not yet.
7. By the way, the Mayfield we saw in the spring and the Mayfield we saw in training camp -- wow. The growth has been incredible. It took a little time at the start of camp, but once he settled in, it has been nothing but up since.
The offensive line 8. Speaking of first-team reps, the offensive line is in an unenviable position as the opener approaches. Joel Bitonio and Austin Corbett are learning new positions. Kevin Zeitler hasn't played in the preseason and remains out with injury. They're breaking in a new right tackle in Chris Hubbard. There's not a lot of time for this group to gel, and that does matter when it comes to this position group.
9. Bitonio has had the opportunity to work against Myles Garrett in practice almost every day. That's a big help. Monday afternoon, Garrett pushed Bitonio backwards into the quarterback. The next play, Bitonio was able to stay in front of him. It's a good baptism for Bitonio at the position.
The defensive line 10. Garrett has had issues in spots trying to jump snaps in practice and drawing flags for offsides. He got pinged for offsides against the Giants, too.
You can live with an offsides here and there if he's able to turn his quickness off the ball into double digit sacks this season.
11. On the interior, Larry Ogunjobi might just bully his way into a starting job. He's not just a run stopper. He can get in the backfield and disrupt.
The linebackers
12. Mychal Kendricks and Genard Avery are going to push the issue at linebacker, too.
"(Avery) reminds me a lot of myself when I was young," Kendricks said earlier in camp. "Very strong, very fast, passionate about the game, the want to and all that is there."
Both are devastating when they're going downhill and Avery showed off some of his athleticism against the Bills rushing off the edge. He's rising fast.
The secondary 13. Landry, by the way, has been going back-and-forth with Terrance Mitchell for much of the last few weeks. They've had some battles, too, even beyond the fight last week. Landry has probably gotten the better of the matchup, but Mitchell has made him work hard.
14. So it's likely going to be Mitchell starting on the other side of Denzel Ward. Briean Boddy-Calhoun is on the inside track to start at nickel. Mitchell came up with four interceptions last season while Boddy-Calhoun had three during his rookie season in 2016 and came into the league known for having a nose for the football.
Interceptions can come down to luck sometimes, but some guys, for whatever reason, do have a knack for coming down with the ball.
"The one thing about Terrance, he makes a lot of plays," defensive backs coach DeWayne Walker said. "His biggest nemesis was two plays for us, one play for the other team."
Sometimes, too, guys who come down with a lot of picks tend to take a lot of chances.
"(Mitchell)'s been a gambler throughout his career because he's made a lot of plays," Walker said. "We don't want to take that away from him, but at the same time, just try to have very good eye discipline and just play within the defense."
Still, this should be a secondary that can come down with some footballs.
15. I think I'm in on Damarious Randall. He's a big upgrade at free safety -- which isn't a shot at Jabrill Peppers. Peppers was just severely out of position in 2017.
Randall brings a little bit of swagger to a defense that needs it and, judging by some things I've observed in practice, he seems very observant back there.
16. Peppers seems energized. I give him tons of credit for the way he approached last season and the way he's talked about it since. I have a circle around his name for most intriguing player this season as he moves into his new role.
17. I want to go back to Boddy-Calhoun for a second. Along with playing nickel, he is also the backup free safety. He didn't make the big plays in Year 2 that he did in Year 1, but he's a solid, versatile, smart player who can hit and has the potential to make those game-changing plays again.
One last thing ... 18. Like parallels? Think about this list of guys:
Landry: Miami didn't want to pay him so they traded him.
Tyrod Taylor: Led Buffalo to their first playoff appearance since 1999 and was traded for a third-round pick.
Randall: A cornerback in Green Bay that they traded for a backup quarterback.
Mayfield: Far from the prototype at six-feet tall and a walk-on -- multiple times.
There's more to list, but think about the key players who are here in Cleveland trying to change narratives of their careers and hope to, simultaneously, change the narrative on their new team.
9. Bitonio has had the opportunity to work against Myles Garrett in practice almost every day. That's a big help. Monday afternoon, Garrett pushed Bitonio backwards into the quarterback. The next play, Bitonio was able to stay in front of him. It's a good baptism for Bitonio at the position.
Joel will be the starting LT come regular season and I'm sure we'll see him take the full half and whatever then some this next preseason game at LT.
Practicing against a healthy Myles is only evidence he can hold the position down in the absence of Joe Thomas while strengthening the line, allowing someone who can't play LT yet, but can play inside, take his old spot.
I believe as the season goes on barring any injuries, our O-line could become very good and a strength of the team. However, at the outset it may not be good simply because we have 2 new starters, JB learning a new position and KZ out with an injury. How quickly they come together and gel will be crucial to how well our Browns play and how many games they have the potential too win.
If you look at our team today vs the team 3 or even 2 years ago it is vastly different.
Our back-ups have become home grown, drafted players or undrafted free agents who began their careers here. Most are not the outcasts from other teams as we try to salvage something that wasn't there or a signed aged vet that we hope still had something left in the tank. These are our players. Players brought up in our system, within our franchise.
We are now adding great draft picks to compliment these guys and signing/trading for players to increase competition. This was the plan all along. Building thru the draft. Whether or not our method will actually work is one thing, but I believe this is what Sashi envisioned all along.
We are not signing guys hoping to find something, we are drafting our own. If we somehow end up making the playoffs this season, Dorsey will get all the credit, but it was Sashi's plan that enabled us to get there. I'm sure a lot of the anti-sashis won't agree or understand, but we are where we are right now thanks to Sashi. I hear the anti's saying 1-31. 1-31 was always on the coaching, but Haslam believed in the coaching and kept them. Change was necessary, but this is still Sashi's vision.
If you look at our team today vs the team 3 or even 2 years ago it is vastly different.
Our back-ups have become home grown, drafted players or undrafted free agents who began their careers here. Most are not the outcasts from other teams as we try to salvage something that wasn't there or a signed aged vet that we hope still had something left in the tank. These are our players. Players brought up in our system, within our franchise.
We are now adding great draft picks to compliment these guys and signing/trading for players to increase competition. This was the plan all along. Building thru the draft. Whether or not our method will actually work is one thing, but I believe this is what Sashi envisioned all along.
We are not signing guys hoping to find something, we are drafting our own. If we somehow end up making the playoffs this season, Dorsey will get all the credit, but it was Sashi's plan that enabled us to get there. I'm sure a lot of the anti-sashis won't agree or understand, but we are where we are right now thanks to Sashi. I hear the anti's saying 1-31. 1-31 was always on the coaching, but Haslam believed in the coaching and kept them. Change was necessary, but this is still Sashi's vision.
Sorry for the tangent. Carry on.
I have been beating this drum for a while.
1. #GMstrong 2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb 3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa 4. ClemenZa #1
If you look at our team today vs the team 3 or even 2 years ago it is vastly different.
Our back-ups have become home grown, drafted players or undrafted free agents who began their careers here. Most are not the outcasts from other teams as we try to salvage something that wasn't there or a signed aged vet that we hope still had something left in the tank. These are our players. Players brought up in our system, within our franchise.
We are now adding great draft picks to compliment these guys and signing/trading for players to increase competition. This was the plan all along. Building thru the draft. Whether or not our method will actually work is one thing, but I believe this is what Sashi envisioned all along.
We are not signing guys hoping to find something, we are drafting our own. If we somehow end up making the playoffs this season, Dorsey will get all the credit, but it was Sashi's plan that enabled us to get there. I'm sure a lot of the anti-sashis won't agree or understand, but we are where we are right now thanks to Sashi. I hear the anti's saying 1-31. 1-31 was always on the coaching, but Haslam believed in the coaching and kept them. Change was necessary, but this is still Sashi's vision.
Sorry for the tangent. Carry on.
Us fans have been waiting for this for a long time... Only way it happened was consistency. I think we're fortunate to have a smooth transition from Sashi to Dorsey. Sashi got this defense looking nice. Now Dorsey getting this offense together, which has been missing for quite some time.
I've said it before, but this 53 man roster cut will be the toughest we've had in years. It's been a long time coming to see thing coming into fruition.
I've always said the best season for a Browns fan is the off season... hopefully that motto can change with some W's.
I disagree with the blame for 1-31 falls entirely on Hue's shoulders part, but I have been saying for months that Sashi did his job well...building a solid foundation and handing a treasure trove of assets over to a true GM.
1. #GMstrong 2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb 3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa 4. ClemenZa #1
If you look at our team today vs the team 3 or even 2 years ago it is vastly different.
You could say that about our team at any point since the return.
Sashi got us the picks that enabled Dorsey to execute a plan, but Sashi also screwed the pooch when it came to drafting and signing talent. I think he and Hue both should have been shown the door as they (along with Haslem but he's not going away) were responsible for the worst stretch in NFL history. I'm hoping Hue can manage the team better with the narrowing of his responsibilities. I like some of the things I've seen from him on Hard Knocks. That show has me more excited for the season to start than I've been in years.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
If you look at our team today vs the team 3 or even 2 years ago it is vastly different.
You could say that about our team at any point since the return.
Sashi got us the picks that enabled Dorsey to execute a plan, but Sashi also screwed the pooch when it came to drafting and signing talent. I think he and Hue both should have been shown the door as they (along with Haslem but he's not going away) were responsible for the worst stretch in NFL history. I'm hoping Hue can manage the team better with the narrowing of his responsibilities. I like some of the things I've seen from him on Hard Knocks. That show has me more excited for the season to start than I've been in years.
Welcome to the Isle Dawg ...
The TALENT is what should have u excited ... the TALENT is why this year is different ...
Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about you. I think you are a fair poster. I apologize if my previous post came across that way.
However, we disagree about Sashi building a solid foundation. He tore the team down, but that isn't hard. He had a ton of high picks at his disposal and we don't have that much to show for all of those picks. The only good things I really saw him do is to acquire more picks and leave us in great cap position. With that comes a caveat......it led to record-setting losses. That's not really a good thing and it leads to firings.
I'm just thankful that the Haslam's chose to keep Hue and replace Sashi w/Dorsey. It's pretty damn obvious to anyone who wants to be open-minded that Dorsey recognized how bare the cupboard was and he went out and brought in a lot of veteran talent by making trades and using free agency. Now, we'll see if Hue can coach or not.
Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about you. I think you are a fair poster. I apologize if my previous post came across that way.
However, we disagree about Sashi building a solid foundation. He tore the team down, but that isn't hard. He had a ton of high picks at his disposal and we don't have that much to show for all of those picks. The only good things I really saw him do is to acquire more picks and leave us in great cap position. With that comes a caveat......it led to record-setting losses. That's not really a good thing and it leads to firings.
I'm just thankful that the Haslam's chose to keep Hue and replace Sashi w/Dorsey. It's pretty damn obvious to anyone who wants to be open-minded that Dorsey recognized how bare the cupboard was and he went out and brought in a lot of veteran talent by making trades and using free agency. Now, we'll see if Hue can coach or not.
2017 - CLEVELAND BROWNS RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 1 Myles Garrett DE Texas A&M (Looks like a stud player) 1 25 Jabrill Peppers SAF Michigan (question mark) 1 29 David Njoku TE Miami (Fla.) (Looks good) 2 52 DeShone Kizer QB Notre Dame (Gone) 3 65 Larry Ogunjobi DT North Carolina-Charlotte (Looks good) 4 126 Howard Wilson CB Houston (IR) 5 160 Roderick Johnson T Florida State (Gone) 6 185 Caleb Brantley DT Florida (Backup) 7 224 Zane Gonzalez K Arizona State (In a roster battle) 7 252 Matt Dayes RB North Carolina State (Unlikely to make team) 2016 - CLEVELAND BROWNS RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 15 Corey Coleman WR Baylor (Gone) 2 32 Emmanuel Ogbah DE Oklahoma State (Starter, potentially very good) 3 65 Carl Nassib DE Penn State (On shaky ground) 3 76 Shon Coleman T Auburn (On shaky ground) 3 93 Cody Kessler QB USC (Gone) 4 99 Joe Schobert OLB Wisconsin (Starter, Pro Bowl) 4 114 Ricardo Louis WR Auburn (IR) 4 129 Derrick Kindred SAF Texas Christian (I like Kinfred more than Peppers) 4 138 Seth DeValve WR Princeton (Shaky, though I believe he is talented) 5 154 Jordan Payton WR UCLA (Gone) 5 168 Spencer Drango G Baylor (Backup) 5 172 Rashard Higgins WR Colorado State (Looks to have come on in his 3rd year) 5 173 Trey Caldwell DB Louisiana-Monroe (gone) 7 250 Scooby Wright LB Arizona (gone)
I do think that a lot of these guys only got a chance because the team was so bad. I also hated that Brown created massive holes by refusing to re-sign our own veteran players. However, I do think that he did add some good players.
We'll see how those still on the roster turn out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Good breakdown. What's troubling is how many high picks we had and what the results were. You also brought up a good point that he created more needs by not keeping some of his better players.
In the end, I'm glad that we have Dorsey running the show instead of Sashi.
I was especially unhappy that he did not re-sign Schwartz, reportedly pulling the team's offer because he didn't sign before the "look around" period.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
looking at those picks, I just think his QB decisions in the draft were the most damning ... Kessler in the 3rd and Kizer the next year is BAD, especially with high picks
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
yep, most teams/fans would say "Our OL depth is awful, and so is our DB depth"
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Sashi failed at job 1 and passed on Wentz an Watson. Picks are picks and look nice on a pile, but his job was to find a QB. Hence he was fired.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
Sashi failed at job 1 and passed on Wentz an Watson. Picks are picks and look nice on a pile, but his job was to find a QB. Hence he was fired.
That sounds a lot like Sashi deferring the QB answer to Hue...which failed miserably. Hue has been exposed as NOT being the QB whisperer and Dorsey took that wand away from Hue. Good for the Browns and their fans...bad for the apologists. Hopefully Hue can get it together on game day and turn the talent into wins.
You don't get it. Sashi was a god. That is why so many other teams were fighting to hire him after we fired him. You also don't get that Hue is a dunce. That is why guys like Parcells, Wolf, Singletary, etc made the recommendations they did and why a respected FO guy like Dorsey was good w/keeping Hue.
You see, guys like cfrs and WSU know way more about football and this particular situation than any of the professionals do.
Finding a QB was Sashi's job. Not Hue's. Sashi knew it, you knew it, I knew it and Haslam knew it...
No doubt passing on Wentz did not sit well with Haslam. It made everyone mad. It was terrible to watch the Eagles roll with the QB that they selected with the Browns pick. And then Watson starts lighting it up...
He failed and was fired. Hue was lucky not to have been fired too...
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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