Hey all. I just came back from time spent away for Civil Disobedience and an unjust levying of policy.
It seems while I served my time some more silly things happened. This just happened this morning, too.
Before we go further, we must define factual terms to help educate many on this forum.
Term 1: Conspiring
Quote:
to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or an act which becomes unlawful as a result of the secret agreement accused of conspiring to overthrow the government conspired to monopolize and restrict trade
So we this out of the way. Let's get into the actual news of today.
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Quote:
Meet the Press .@RudyGiuliani on the Trump Tower meeting: "The meeting was originally for the purpose of getting information about Clinton…That was the original intention of the meeting. It turned out to be a meeting about another subject and it was not pursued at all." #MTP
Now many say "well, there's no law against this" or retort with a Russian whataboutism of "WE DO THIS ALL THE TIME!!!! SHUTUP!!!!!!". There's actually a law on the books about this, and you can take your dirt stained terrible towel ragged whataboutism to some dumb white supremacy thread.
Here's an actual statue on what the Trump team did.
Quote:
"A foreign national spending money to influence a federal election can be a crime," Persily said. "And if a U.S. citizen coordinates, conspires or assists in that spending, then it could be a crime."
Persily pointed to a 2011 U.S. District Court ruling based on the 2002 law. The judges said that the law bans foreign nationals "from making expenditures to expressly advocate the election or defeat of a political candidate."
Another election law specialist, John Coates at Harvard University Law School, said if Russians aimed to shape the outcome of the presidential election, that would meet the definition of an expenditure.
"The related funds could also be viewed as an illegal contribution to any candidate who coordinates (colludes) with the foreign speaker," Coates said.
To be sure, no one is saying that coordination took place. What’s in doubt is whether the word "collusion" is as pivotal as Jarrett makes it out to be.
Coates said discussions between a campaign and a foreigner could violate the law against fraud.
"Under that statute, it is a federal crime to conspire with anyone, including a foreign government, to ‘deprive another of the intangible right of honest services,’ " Coates said. "That would include fixing a fraudulent election, in my view, within the plain meaning of the statute."
Josh Douglas at the University of Kentucky Law School offered two other possible relevant statutes.
"Collusion in a federal election with a foreign entity could potentially fall under other crimes, such as against public corruption," Douglas said. "There's also a general anti-coercion federal election law."
In sum, legal experts mentioned four criminal laws that might have been broken. The key is not whether those statutes use the word collusion, but whether the activities of the Russians and Trump associates went beyond permissible acts.
So have at it. Why will the conservative members of this website support blatant attempts with a foreign entity to not have some scary boogeyman as president?
Was stopping progress on civil rights for all Americans really worth that little bit of a tax break?
And yes, this is another Trump thread. I want to know where all of you stand on this.
As Alexander Hamilton told Aaron Burr
Quote:
If you stand for nothing Burr, then what do you fall for
Take a position on Trump failing in his attempt to commit conspiracy and collusion. Leave silly whataboutisms out of this thread.
But he strongly says there was no collusion. So we must believe Him. Putin strongly said there was no Russia meddling in the election so Trump believed him. We just need to trust everything Trump says, then everything will be ok.
this is the equivalent to trump's response to mueller if he has to sit down with him and answer questions on obstruction:
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
To be sure, no one is saying that coordination took place. What’s in doubt is whether the word "collusion" is as pivotal as Jarrett makes it out to be.
Coates said discussions between a campaign and a foreigner could violate the law against fraud.
Help me out here, these two statements seem to contradict each other as far as something wrong going on?
Or is it saying that there was no collusion, but Russia made campaign donations? Or at least spent money on the election one way or another?
WE DON'T NEED A QB BEFORE WE GET A LINE THAT CAN PROTECT HIM my two cents...
The article came from a time in the past. It was before Guliani admitted this morning that Trump attempted to conspire and collude with the Russians in turn for dirt on Hillary.
Trump and team would get the dirt, and then in turn would then shred the Magnitsky Act that levied sanctions on Russia for Putin's attacks on Ukraine and Crimea. This is the whole adoption thing. ---------------------
It boils down to this.
Russia: We give you dirt on Clinton, and you drop sanctions...okay?
Trump: Sure. Let's meet.
(Day of meeting)
Russia: So we actually don't have anything...but if we find something we'll give it to you. You will still be expected to lift sanctions, too.
Trump: Okay. This still sin't illegal or collusion because we didn't get anything...right? -----------------------------
Basically as some of the details come out ... and we get a little glimmer into what happened - Trumps position becomes one of splitting hairs and semantics. Next it's going to be that he knew about the information from the hacks was going to be released ... he knew it and made reference to it to give it a media spotlight above and beyond what it would have done anyway .... but his defense will be that he didn't do the hacking, he didn't do the releasing and he didn't tell them when to release. smh.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Because actual investigations don’t work that way. We’re all under the country of public opinion. And the reality is that we don’t have a clue about whether mueller has a mountain of evidence, or very little evidence at all.
All we can do is put the pieces together of what we do know. what Rudy tells us every time he gets on TV: the legal strategy is to create chaos.
Remember, this was the same guy who claimed he’d get the investigation wrapped up quickly when he first got hired. He keeps putting out timelines as if he actually has any say so on the matter.
And let’s be real here. The fact that the story keeps changing from trump’s own lawyers says one of two things:
1. His lawyers suck and give bad legal advice, and/or
2. Trumps story keeps changing when talking to his lawyers, so when they appear on TV, it makes them have to swap up the story.
Also, Rudy knows it’s his best strategy because trump is an unreliable witness. He knows he has to keep this “he said/she said” for as long as possible to keep the narrative going that it’s a witch hunt.
For example, and let’s see if you can actually answer the question with playing what about:
Why the story around the trump tower meeting constantly change?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Why the story around the trump tower meeting constantly change?
Trick question. I was not at the meeting, so any ANSWER I give is a whatabout because I don't know "what about" actually happened - neither do you. That's the point I am making with my post. To date, no one knows - yet a lot of you on here (rocket in this case) has already concluded he is guilty of treason lol. Its rather amusing.
Yall keep saying we need to let the investigation play out, yet posting over and over again hes guilty. So why we need the investigation - its already over in your guy's eyes. And sadly, when the investigation does end, if it doesn't amount to trump being impeached or charged (which I don't think it will), you guys are going to scream and cry foul like someone stole your teddy bear.
Why the story around the trump tower meeting constantly change?
Trick question. I was not at the meeting, so any ANSWER I give is a whatabout because I don't know "what about" actually happened - neither do you. That's the point I am making with my post. To date, no one knows - yet a lot of you on here (rocket in this case) has already concluded he is guilty of treason lol. Its rather amusing.
Yall keep saying we need to let the investigation play out, yet posting over and over again hes guilty. So why we need the investigation - its already over in your guy's eyes. And sadly, when the investigation does end, if it doesn't amount to trump being impeached or charged (which I don't think it will), you guys are going to scream and cry foul like someone stole your teddy bear.
right, except you didn't answer the question.
we have video evidence and statements of different reasons over the trump tower meeting.
why does the story keep changing? if they were telling the truth, shouldnt it be real easy to keep the story straight?
i already know how you would answer this question if clinton was president. but i get it: im going to get a whole bunch of BS out of you, so might as well not bother.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
and now you're trying to spin instead of answering the question.
no wonder i always thought you and 40 were related.
why does the story keep changing?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
What part of I didn't answer because I cannot don't you understand.
Anything I would say would be opinion, just like anything you say about it is an opinion.
Swish: Don't answer with a WHATABOUT
Then gives a whatabout himself "i already know how you would answer this question if clinton was president"
I'm getting dizzy from all the spin.
he's out here doing cartwheels that would make the olympics proud.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
and now you're trying to spin instead of answering the question.
no wonder i always thought you and 40 were related.
why does the story keep changing?
So this is now the like 4th or 5th time I have had to explain to you on these boards the difference between an OPIONION and FACT.
An opinion, is not an answer. and answer actually ANSWERS a question with facts. Since I nor you are on the trump legal team - anything we say about this IS AN OPINION/ASSumption and not an answer.
Just like this entire thread, everything you and ROCKET have posted is an ASSumption.
If you would like my OPINION on something, that is fine. However I am not going to tie myself to an ANSWER that I cannot answer with certainty. I know that's a weird concept for you, as you make up things and present them as fact on the reg, because you do not know what the difference between an opinion and fact is.
My opinion on the matter would be that when you speak on a cable news station, what you say might be different to what is said to special counsel. Or what you say before hand might differ after an investigation presents itself. Stories change all the time in DC, this is nothing new.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Yeah ok bro....Trump, his sheep, and rudy g have all been crying foul during this entire investigation. Yet one by one Trumps cronies, aids, consultants, Lawyers, Russian operatives, and his whores, are all singing to Mueller's team. Enjoy.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
typically, a walkback is suppose to be elegant, graceful, and at least make sense.
but with this administration.... i dunno what to say.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I'm a parent. As such, I know if I ask my child the same question at different times and receive different answers, that my child is lying to me. I know my child is trying to hide the truth from me because the answer is something he/she knows is bad and wrong. I know my child has something that they wish to cover up and hide.
The child in the White House and his henchmen are no different.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Willit: "I've never liked a sky blue Camaro. Nor do I still like them anymore."
I hear there is a 25% tax on sky blue ones. . . . .
is that the apr % you was handing out to the people at the bank?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Willit: "I've never liked a sky blue Camaro. Nor do I still like them anymore."
I hear there is a 25% tax on sky blue ones. . . . .
is that the apr % you was handing out to the people at the bank?
lame. you can do better.
cut me some slack im running errands right now.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
i dont get why though. he's 74. he's made enough money to retire and be on the beach for the rest of his life. why ruin the reputation.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
What part of I didn't answer because I cannot don't you understand.
Anything I would say would be opinion, just like anything you say about it is an opinion.
Swish: Don't answer with a WHATABOUT
Then gives a whatabout himself "i already know how you would answer this question if clinton was president"
I'm getting dizzy from all the spin.
he's out here doing cartwheels that would make the olympics proud.
The thing is, they unwittingly admit to wrong doing when they say they took the meeting to get dirt on Hillary from a Russian source.. That's not opinion, that's what they said.
Now, it's, hey we didn't know they were russians...LOL
It's only stated several time in several ways in the email string from Donald Jr. So, they knew, they have admitted knowing.
All they can do now is lie about it because the truth isn't flattering.
Truth Isn't TRUTH... Remember that Trump fans...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I don't feel sorry for him in the slightest. He's an adult who knew what he was signing onto.
Besides, I lost most of the respect I had for him after seeing that speech he made at the RNC in CLE back in 2016. Once a symbol of unity and forebearance, he became a screaming, spittle-flecked fearmonger.
I don't feel sorry for him in the slightest. He's an adult who knew what he was signing onto.
Besides, I lost most of the respect I had for him after seeing that speech he made at the RNC in CLE back in 2016. Once a symbol of unity and forebearance, he became a screaming, spittle-flecked fearmonger.
No sympathy. Only ridicule.
So much for 'America's Mayor'...
I used to have a warm spot for Rudy..I thought the way he handled 9/11 was about as good as anyone could have. That's a tough spot to be in for sure.
But what the hell has happened to him since, I have no idea. He's out of his damn mind.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I don't feel sorry for him in the slightest. He's an adult who knew what he was signing onto.
Besides, I lost most of the respect I had for him after seeing that speech he made at the RNC in CLE back in 2016. Once a symbol of unity and forebearance, he became a screaming, spittle-flecked fearmonger.
No sympathy. Only ridicule.
So much for 'America's Mayor'...
I used to have a warm spot for Rudy..I thought the way he handled 9/11 was about as good as anyone could have. That's a tough spot to be in for sure.
But what the hell has happened to him since, I have no idea. He's out of his damn mind.
Or maybe hes the same, and the lefties have lost their mind.......
Yeah ok bro....Trump, his sheep, and rudy g have all been crying foul during this entire investigation. Yet one by one Trumps cronies, aids, consultants, Lawyers, Russian operatives, and his whores, are all singing to Mueller's team. Enjoy. 
