DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Division

as of now, no, we aren't good enough to win the north. the steelers are still hands down better than us.

the talent on paper says we can compete in our division, but the bengals is the only team i can say for sure we're better than.

I'd take tyrod over Dalton and Flacco(at this point, not the flacco 5 years ago), but obviously big ben is by far the best QB in the division.

I'll take our WR core over every team but the steelers.

RB's the same thing, every team but the steelers.

i think we're a better overall team on paper than the ravens and bengals, but the ravens have experience and continuity.

its just too hard to try to determine how we stack up with our division rivals because we basically have a whole new team. i just dont know how this team will look come week 1.

i think we can compete for being 2nd in the north, which could possibly lead to a wildcard spot, but i dont think we're good enough to win the division.

Pittsburgh and Baltimore are scary.

Pittsburgh almost goes without saying. They are the most complete team in the division, and they've made some excellent additions.

Roethlisberger, JUJU, AB and Bell have a strong OL supporting their talents. Their defence played reasonable well last year, and should only be better this year. The additions of James Washington and Terrell Edmunds look fantastic.

Baltimore's defence was incredible in 2017, and they look even better this season. If anyone watched their preseason game this week, they forced so many damn turnovers. Ripping at the ball on every play and a couple of picks.

I hate to say it, but Ozzie Newsome's parting gift was incredible. Snead, Crabtree, Brown and Lasley are strong receiver additions, and stacking up on Hurst and Andrews at TE is formidable. Their offense might actually function this season.

I'm not looking forward to seeing the Browns match-up with either. They're both legitimate AFC contenders. The Steelers, if they stay healthy, are Superbowl contenders.

As for Kentucky, meh. I like their additions, but this was a team in decline last season and I think this might be the year that Marvin Lewis and his veterans come undone. They're not a hopeless, easy win; they're also not playoff contenders anymore.

The Ravens and Steelers keep the AFC North as a formidable division, but the Browns have undoubtedly improved, and might not be the cellar dwellers anymore.

I'd say we have a near 0% chance to beat Pittsburgh ... and I'll stick by that until it happens

We've heard for nearly 5 years how their window is closing, Ben is over the hill, their defense isn't good enough, etc ... but until otherwise, we are their b****.

Their offense is one of the best I've ever seen in terms of talent and personnel ... they have a HOF QB, WR, and possibly RB.



In terms of the other two teams, it doesn't really matter IMO. Best case? We split with BAL and CIN ... still leaves us at 2-4

Pittsburgh ON PAPER has the best offense.
but i can feel some tension brewing as of late
cause Leveon Bell didnt exactly give Ben a ringing endorsement after Ramseys comments.
defensely they will miss Shazier Butler is trying out new schemes as we speak.giving up 51 pts is very rare in preseason.
would not be surprise if they spilt with all the Norh teams.

Baltimore just doesnt impress me on offense
who was the last offense to overhaul its recieving core with other teams 2nd and 3rd WRs and have success.?
Flacco cant carry that offense.Alex Collins needs a monster year to take the heat off Flacco.
defensively their front 7 is good. huge DTs that can move. Lbs that can rush the passer.
i think the Ravens lack firepower to go vertical and a strong red zone threat. 8 win team.

the Bengals over hauled the coaching staff.
their oline coach is from Dallas so he knows how to coach a oline which was their achilles heel.
i think if the Bengals stay healthy on offense they can put up.points....Mixon Bernard Eifert Ross Green.thats a strong group.
defensively the are loaded on the front 4 but their Lbers are kinda blah .
Jackson is a true shutdown CB.
if Dalton can spread the ball around who knows..10 wins maybe

"its just too hard to try to determine how we stack up with our division rivals because we basically have a whole new team. i just dont know how this team will look come week 1."
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If that is the case how are the division rivals better?

What I am hearing so far is ok but just opinion based.

How about our DL against their OL. Our receivers against their secondary. etc.

What I am looking for is in depth info on units against units. Position depth against position depth.

How do we really match up?

At this stage, I know better to buy into the "on paper" hype. This is why I haven't read a single post in the "why this time is different" thread.

Gotta see it with my own eyes. We could sign every star in the league and I would literally say the same thing.

let's look at our secondary against Pittsburgh's receivers:

- Denzel Ward in his FIRST game in the NFL against Antonio Brown, the best WR in the NFL

- Terrance Mitchell, a NFL nomad, against Juju Smith-Schuster, who had a phenomenal rookie year and will take a big step

- Our LBs against LeVeon Bell ... LOL, that's cake for Pittsburgh all day

- They still have Vance McDonald, Jesse James, and Washington, Eli Rogers, etc



Now, you could say "Well they have to cover us too!" ... yeah, but then it comes down to QB play.

Do you prefer Tyrod Taylor or Ben Roethlisberger?

We're not far apart on the others - particularly Baltimore, as I also have no faith in Flacco - so I'll stick just to Kentucky.

I read something fascinating a week or two back that I cannot find, but it basically outlined that A.J Green isn't a top receiver anymore. He just hit 30 and his production dipped over the last two years. In 2017, he hardly scraped by 1,000 yards on 145 targets: And that success was boosted by three excellent games and 13 average games.

Eifert had a pretty solid year in 2015, but hasn't been the same since. Injuries have largely held him back, but even when on the field he didn't look as dominant.

Ross remains such a head scratcher to me. He's an incredible vertical weapon, but I don't feel like Dalton is the kind of quarterback to get the most out of a guy like that. I also think he was overdrafted - great deep threat, but I never saw a complete receiver.

Their running backs are interesting, but their OL remains highly sketchy. I don't think the coaching is what made Dallas so good, but the quantity of talent they invested into the position. Three top 15 selections and one UDFA who was a first round talent but had a murder allegation hanging over his head. The Bengals lack that level of talent; and I think it'll hurt both Dalton's efficiency and their running game.

Who knows, but I hope I'm right haha.

I think your questions avoid just how much continuity and being in a system for more than one or two seasons means.

It seems you believe, or at least are asking questions that only measure athletes on paper without considering those other factors.

There's something to be said when your QB knows exactly what at least a couple of his WR's will do when he gets pressured. Where they will be and how they'll react. Where and how to place the ball for his WR's when they're being pressed by a DB.

When your OL knows exactly how to react with a given RB when the blitz is on.

There's a certain familiarity that comes with continuity. It's knowing how others on your team will react before they react. That's something that comes with time, not measured by roster sheets.

I don't know about the receivers Swish... Njoko (I know, TE, but damn, he can catch and run), Landry, Gordon, Callaway and now Higgins?

To tell you the truth, on paper, that looks to be on par with just about anyone in the league.

Also, about Ben, Ya know, he's no spring chicken,, I'm just not sure what they have in him anymore.

I think this thread was inspired by the article that Memphis posted regarding people betting on the Browns to win the AFC North.

You have to be careful when weighing the importance of the total number of bets because teams have different odds on them and the paying customers are looking for a bigger payoff.

I think the Browns are improved, but it's unfair placing high expectations on the team. We are heading in the right direction and the last thing we need is to blow things up because fans are placing unrealistic expectations on them. I give this little speech pretty much every year and it pretty much falls on deaf ears. LOL....

I think people are betting on us because the odds are so low ... it's a pretty good bet.

In reality, I'd bet against us nearly ever week this year

Here is an example of what I am talking about.



Here is another example:

The Stilers are the cream of the crop in this division ... but here’s the thing ... there OVERRATED and there DECLINING ... there not a better football team than they were last year ... losing Shazier was not overcome ... NOT EVEN CLOSE ...

Week 1 Bell will not get a full compliment of snaps ... I believe there learning an entirely new O, if not definetly a tweaked one ....

There D STINKS .. its not that good .... they gave up 45 to J-Ville ... ya ... thats right ... the frickin JAGUARS!!!

The Stilers are the cream of the crop and there not that good ... this division has been overrated for a couple years now IMO ...

Were not there yet ... but were certainly capable of playing with them and beating them ... and with some breaks ... we could challenge for the division ... slim slim slim on that one ...

Don’t believe i’ve been able to say this since our return ... I’d rather be the the stilers this year but for the future i’d MUCH RATHER HAVE OURS ...

The rats have improved there recievers ... much much better group then they’ve had in years ... there OL is still suspect on a good day ... there VERY BAD .... and the D is on the decline ... there not the rats of old ... and it looks like Jimmy Smith could be facing a multiple game suspension ....

IMO were better than them today ....

The bungles STINK ... we better sweep them ...

I don't think Baltimore is getting enough due. I would not be surprised if they win the division.

They still have Flacco? He's been pretty terrible the last several years.

Do you understand how this works?

Bro, I don't think we are ready to challenge the Steelers. I also think that people are underestimating the Rats. We might have a chance to catch the Bengals.

I look at Pittsburgh's offense and I think they create a lot of problems for us.

They have the best WR in football. He is a playmaker like no other. They have the best RB in football who can run and catch and is a nightmare match-up for LBers. They have a QB who has more wins at QB in Cleveland than any Brown's qb. LOL They might have the best OL in football. JuJu was great last year as their second WR. They drafted the kid out of OK State and he is another baller.

Their passing game will put a ton of pressure on our defense. They simply have too many weapons. They also have a ton of experience and know how to play together.

I think their D is pretty bad, but we really don't have a qb to exploit it. The one thing they can do is sack the qb and that scares me.

I would be beyond shocked if win this division. We're better than we were, but we're not there yet, bro.

ok, well lets start with our matchup vs the bengals. ill attempt to try and get past continuity and just go head to head:

offense:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/cin/cincinnati-bengals

So straight up, they have some questions on their offensive line. that, combined with a fully healthy garrett and ogbah, and i think we have the advantage at the LoS.

weapons are complicated. more than likely we're sticking Ward on the best WR, period. so it's a rookie vs AJ Green. thats a matchup that in most cases, Green is winning. Mitchell vs LaFell? possibly a wash.

but we have way better group of DB's than we did last year, so i expect our unit to be strong, and we have the LB's and safeties needed to cover their TE's. Eifert is good but he isn't elite.

for me the biggest question is can we stop the run? Mixon is legit, and Benard is a really good backup. so again, on paper i'd take our defense against the bengals O, but dalton and AJ have experience and we still need to see how we look in a real game.

defense:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/cin/formation/4-3-defense

this is why i said we're better than the bengals. Atkins and Dunlap are monsters. we all get that, so first and foremost, the question is can our offensive line holdup against theirs?

if Bitonio is staying at LT, i like the matchup against dunlap. i dont think we have a player on the OL that can block atkins, so its gonna be a lot of double teams, and thats where burfict becomes dangerous.

but i do like the matchup in the run game. i think we have the overall advantage there.

DBs? pft. who on that roster can cover Gordon? hell, i doubt Kirk can even cover Landry. i think the pass game is gonna wreck the bengals secondary.

but again, on paper.

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Ravens

offense:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/bal/baltimore-ravens

So obviously this team offensive capabilities are gonna rely on Flacco. we have a fully healthy flacco now, not one coming off ACL injury. he has the experience to completely fool our still young and inexperienced secondary, but other than Crabtree, there's not a big threat to worry about, other than TE hurst.

however, i question whether or not we can sack Flacco. Crabtree vs Ward might lead to some coverage sacks, but man, i know he's just a rookie, but Brown Jr is looking really good at RT for the ravens so far. he really turned it around from that disastrous combine, and looks like the guy everybody said had 1st round talent.

their running backs are plane betty average, but collins is pretty good picking up the blitz, and its really gonna come down to if we can pressure Flacco or not.

Defense:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/bal/formation/3-4-defense

and this is why im not sure how this will play out. their defense is good. Suggs is gonna wreck whoever we have playing at RT, so we're gonna have to have Fells or Devalve help. Njoku aint ready for that responsibility imo.

their secondary is ok, but Weddle is a solid Safety. Smith is good, still in his prime at 30 years old. but again, i dont really see anybody who can cover gordon 1 vs 1, and thats a problem because they're gonna have to send help, leaving landry again is favorably 1 vs 1 matchups. the run game is a question mark because again, we dont know if we can run the ball effectively. so while i think our line might be ok running the ball, i just dont know cause we havent seen these guys in a real game.

my biggest question is how good is their defensive line?

_______________________

steelers

offense:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers

so, out the gate, i think we're gonna get torched. big ben has historically wrecked us every time he plays us. we dont have a corner that can guard Brown. Juju is coming along great, and Bell can do any and everything great.

their offensive line is great at pass blocking, and Villa and gilbert most likely will provide good protection against barrett and ogbah. pouncey is one of the best centers in the game, so getting pressure up the gut is gonna be a task.

defense:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/pit/formation/3-4-defense

this is the spot where we have hope. the defense under mike tomlin has been suspect at best. they let blake bortles and some no name WR's absolutely go off on them, and they have some trouble stopping the run.

But TJ watt is really good. so we have to account for him. however, the question is if they arent playing zone, how will they stop our passing game IF tyrod has time to throw? haden might not be old, but his body sure is. we know he cant cover guys like Gordon that well, and i think it would be smart to line landry in the slot and try to match up calloway with haden, as he struggles with smaller WR's.

_________

again, i tried. but this is hard because this is all speculation and based on individual talent on paper.

i can see us definitely splitting in the division realistically. maybe we can pull off a 4-2 record if we split with the ravens and sweep the bengals. but right now, i cant call a win against the steelers whatsoever.

He hasn't had any weapons and he's been hurt. Both appear to be resolved.

Not sure what it is worth or where it goes. Dad is in Vegas now; report is Browns are really getting a lot of action and bets for winning the North, the AFC, and some long shots for SB with attractive odds. Vegas is a crazy place where some smart money lives. Bookies are always busy this time of year.

Jimmy Smith has been suspended 4 games for violating the NFL’s personal conduct policy.




https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1032020886474379264

So the first game he returns is the first game we play them huh? Usually the way it goes.

The #Ravens say in part: "“The NFL found evidence of threatening and emotionally abusive behaviors by Jimmy toward his former girlfriend that showed a pattern of improper conduct. Our player’s behavior was inappropriate and wrong."



https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1032022169314832384

yep, thats typical

Good, he will be rusty and we can punk him.

Looks like we'll get a little suspension help lol. NFL suspends Steelers WR Eli Rogers for week one:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/21/nfl-suspends-steelers-eli-rogers-for-week-one/

the steelers have a new OC. now, he was the QB coach under haley, but that doesnt guarantee that everything stayed the same. the play calling will be different, maybe even some aspects of the scheme.

Gregg williams is going into his 2nd coaching this team, with the same core players for the most part.

so one big advantage is this: last year, we held bell to 10 carries for 32 yards rushing. once again, bell didn't go to training camp, so hopefully we can get another slow start from him and the run game.

that forces ben to beat us through the air. now, normally that doesnt mean much as he always torches us, but we have a revamped secondary, and i think we can get more pressure this season than last.

we have the athleticism to actually cover TE's, so the key is can we force big ben to only rely on brown and juju.

haley is a factor because he knows them well, regardless of play calling, he's gonna feed gregg everything he knows. so that should be a plus for us.

i dunno if its an advantage, but it certainly helps.

the trick to beating Pittsburgh is really winning the TOP battle.
the Steelers cant score if Ben is watching from the sidelines.
i dont think the Browns have anyone that can stop Schuster or Brown.
then you throw in Bell and Washington.
whats make the Steelers offense dangerous is now Ben can audiblize
Haleys ego.would never allow Ben to.do such

I think the Steelers are over-rated...you could see last year Ben is starting to slow down.

I firmly believe this is the year the Browns punch the Steelers in the mouth and put them down. The Browns D is flat out scary, but the rest of the division will never see them coming...Garret shelving McCarron was just a precursor of things to come...he is going toi put a hit on Ben, and he is going to be hearing footsteps the rest of the game come opening day.

the Browns are going to run the damn pig skin with Hyde and Chubb, we are going to kick someones teeth in both on D and O

The year the young buck overcomes the old buck is this year...i got a really good feeling about this Browns team...

Don't put much stock in this Thursday, bone.

And that's been the key to beating the Steelers along, hasn't it? Yes they have top tier talent, but I've always found it comes down to a test of wills. Because they are such an explosive team IMO many teams opt to play on the conservative side out of fear instead of stepping up and going all out. The Steelers have a hard time against teams who play like they've got nothing to lose.

Ben for all his talent, consistently shows that if you can hit him a few times early on, it gets in his head and he'll start throwing those INT's.

I think we have a fair shot of taking the 1st match up primarily due to Haley. Haley is going to put his foot on the gas and keep it pegged for 4 quarters.

As for Tyrod... I think the make up of the group of pass catchers we have plays to his strengths:
We've got guys like Gordon who can take a quick slant for a big gain, guys like Landry,Higgins, and Devalve who can work the middle of the field, Duke's a great outlet, and Njoku can straight up murder the seams.

The only thing we need from Tyrod is for him to play smart, efficient football. Get the ball in to the hands of our play makers.

I didn't see the article he posted, but they were talking about it on 92.3 The Fan yesterday.

Did a quick search, I think it's this:

'Some people are betting on the Cleveland Browns to win big'

https://fox8.com/2018/08/21/some-people-are-betting-on-the-cleveland-browns-to-win-big/

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns fans are always optimistic at the start of a new season, but now the betting public is also backing the team.

After winning only one game during two disastrous seasons, suddenly the Browns are red hot with the oddsmakers and sportsbooks in Las Vegas.

“There are more bets on the Browns to win the AFC North than the other three teams combined,” a sportsbook manager for Caesars Palace told ESPN.

“It makes sense to me, you know, with the Browns being on Hard Knocks (HBO) and everybody saying positive stuff is happening here in Cleveland,” said Emmett Golden, ESPN Cleveland radio personality. “The Browns have a quarterback now, actually they have two, and that’s really different from what we’re used to with Baker Mayfield and Tyrod Taylor; that is the reason why everyone is so excited.”

After two years of being virtually ignored in Las Vegas, currently the Browns are at 7-1 odds to win the AFC North, and 20-1 odds to win the AFC Championship.

“The thought of it is crazy; yes, the thought is definitely out of this world from 0-16 to winning the division -- never seen anything like that,” said Golden.

Many fans were stunned by the news too.

Some like former season ticket holder Mike Kiec began laughing out loud and said, “They’re crazy!”

Other fans like Matt Henricks were more optimistic, “We are looking a lot more positive, a lot stronger.”

The Browns are also gaining some support with people betting on them to go all the way and win the Super Bowl, with the odds now set at 60 - 1.

"I’m hopeful,” said Ken Bray, grinning from ear to ear. “I think that anything is possible, and I’d love to see that happen.”

Back at the ESPN radio studios, located inside of the Galleria in downtown Cleveland, Golden offered a more realistic number, projecting the Browns to win between 7 and 9 games.

Although he says, “Really if this team wins the opening game against the Steelers it doesn’t matter at that point; we’re playing for house money after that one.”