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Mueller investigation: Here's what the fates of Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen will mean for the Russia probe

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli...ler/1031954002/

For months, Russia special counsel Robert Mueller and his team have been ridiculed and undercut in the court of public opinion by none other than President Donald Trump.

On Tuesday, Mueller's team and federal prosecutors won big in the court of law.

Within an hour, Michael Cohen, the president's former attorney and personal fixer, pleaded guilty to eight felony charges in New York, while Paul Manafort, his former campaign chairman, was convicted by a federal court jury on eight separate felony counts of financial fraud in Alexandria, Virginia.

Both cases grew out of Mueller's far-flung investigation into Trump's inner circle. And the repercussions are sure to be lasting, especially in the White House, as Mueller continues his inquiry into Russian meddling in the 2016 election and possible obstruction of justice by the president.

At virtually every turn, Trump has sought to dismiss Mueller's inquiry as "a hoax."

And as the president arrived Tuesday evening in Charleston, West Virginia, for a prescheduled rally, he kept up the attack on Mueller and the Justice Department, calling Manafort's conviction "very sad," while continuing to assail Mueller's inquiry as a "witch hunt."

But legal analysts said that Tuesday's rapidly unfolding developments gave new legitimacy to Mueller's work that even the even the most ardent of Trump supporters could not ignore.

"The saying goes that justice rides a slow horse, but it gets there eventually," said Bruce Udolf, a criminal defense attorney in Florida who served as an associate independent counsel during the Whitewater investigation. "It got there Tuesday."

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Udolf said Trump's vocal support of Manafort, especially while the jury was deliberating the past four days, could place him in greater jeopardy with Mueller.

Last week, as Trump was leaving the White House to spend the weekend at his golf club in New Jersey, he lamented Manafort's plight in the midst of jury deliberations, calling him "a good man."

"The law makes it a crime to endeavor to obstruct justice," Udolf said. "I think – by his statements in support of Manafort – he was endeavoring to obstruct justice by attempting to influence the jury."

Ron Hosko, a former FBI assistant director who worked under Mueller when he was FBI director, said Tuesday's court victories have no doubt boosted Mueller's credibility in the public eye.

While the entire case against Manafort was investigated and prosecuted by Mueller's team, the Cohen investigation was started by Mueller and then transferred to federal prosecutors in Manhattan.

“The public now can see who the president chose to surround himself with,” Hosko said of Trump’s credibility. “These people were within the president’s circle of trust and now are facing prison time.”

How can you win big when you only get 8 of 18 convictions? How can you only win big when only you get convictions of a personal nature, no Russia, no collusion...

today was a win for the mueller team. 'big' is up to whoever is talking about it, but its definitely a 'win' in a sense that this carries over to the trial that starts on sept 17th.

also, the investigation is ongoing. the indictments, guilty pleas, and convictions keep creeping up the ladder, so saying "no russia, no collusion" implies that one thinks the investigation is over with.

especially when the feds already indicted russian oligarchs and hacker for the actual hack. that kinda blows the whole "no russia" thing out the window...

This is from Vox; still more to come...

Mistrial on 10 more counts, for which Manafort could be charged again
However, the jury failed to reach a unanimous agreement on 10 other counts prosecutors brought against Manafort — so Judge T.S. Ellis III declared a mistrial on these counts. These included three other FBAR charges, for calendar years 2011, 2013, and 2014.

The mistrial counts also included two other bank fraud charges and five bank fraud conspiracy charges, related to both the loans described above and two other US banks prosecutors alleged he tried to defraud to get hefty loans (in one case, allegedly in exchange for trying to get the bank’s chair a job in the Trump administration).

Mueller’s team will now have to decide whether to retry these charges against Manafort.

Manafort will face 7 more charges in Washington, DC, at a separate trial next month
Now, entirely separate from everything mentioned above are another set of charges that will be the focus of a second Manafort trial next month in Washington, DC.

The reasons for the two trials basically boil down to the fact that Manafort had the right to have some, but not all, of the counts charged against him brought where he lived, in Virginia.

Mueller’s team offered Manafort the option to either face all the charges in DC or split up the charges between two trials in DC and Virginia. (They did not offer to move all the charges to Virginia.) Manafort chose the two-trial option, perhaps believing he had a better chance of being acquitted by a Virginia jury. That bet did not pay off.

The DC trial will focus more on Manafort’s actual work for Ukraine rather than just his finances. The charges are:

1-2) Conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to launder money: These are two broad counts summing up what the government alleges was Manafort’s overall “scheme” to violate US law with regards to his unregistered foreign lobbying and undeclared finances.

3-5) Unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, false statements: These counts all relate to Manafort’s initial lack of registration as a foreign lobbyist regarding his Ukrainian work, and later false statements he allegedly made to the government in relation to that.

6-7) Obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice: These were only added to the charges against Manafort in June, after the government alleged that Manafort and his associate Konstantin Kilimnik had contacted witnesses this year and urged them to give a false story about their Ukrainian lobbying. (Kilimnik has also been charged with these two counts.)

This trial is scheduled to begin in Washington on September 17.

You can’t call less than 50% of the charges a win, that ridiculous.

Do you understand that they didn't lose the other 10 charges-They can come back and try him again on the other 10 charges.
No decision means that they can try again-no double jeopardy

you can't? thats news to me.

dude is still going to jail, and those charges will relate to his next trial. if you choose to count them individually then i get where you're coming from.

but the reality is paul manafort was found guilty on 8 counts. and the opposition even paints this as a bad day for team trump.

the muller team got want they went to court for: guilty verdicts. if you want to argue about whether 8 out 18 actually matters, im sure somebody is still around here to entertain that.

and let me make this clear, just IN CASE anybody tries the BS.

no, this is NOT a win for the american people. because we just got that closer to the conclusion of this investigation, and with the combined news of michael cohen, the fog just cleared even more to the possibility that trump did something terrible. our president did something incredibly terrible, that might just dwarf watergate.

today was a win for the investigation specifically maybe. today was a win for prosecutors. today was a win for those trying to find the truth.

but i have since DAY ONE maintained my stance that nobody should be hoping the POTUS conspired with russians in an attempt to rig an election in his favor, and nobody should be hoping that the POTUS attempted to obstruct justice by firing those investigating him, as well as intentionally misleading authorities on the trump tower meeting.

but hope and expecting is two different things. you hope for the best outcome. but you prepare for the worst.

And what exactly again does this have to do with Russian collusion? Maybe I missed it but could someone answer that million dollar question?

is the investigation over?

You didn't answer my question.

Here's your answer:
Nothing.

This phase of proceedings was never about Russia. That's what half of America has never understood.

Dolt45© has tried to MAKE it about 'no collusion,' but that was never the focus of this phase of investigation OR trial.

In September, Paul Manafort will be back in court to answer charges of failing to register as a foreign agent, money laundering, witness tampering and making false statements. And guess what? that trial is not designed to connect 45* to Russians, either.

All of these events are necessary procedural steps in the investigation into Russian influence in the 2016 elections. Too many Anti-Trump folks and too many pro-Trump folks are hinging 'collusion' on these trials without knowing wtf they're even about.

Grates on my last freakkin' nerve most days.

actually i did. and this very question has already been responded to multiple time in multiple threads. but ill go ahead and catch you up, that way you cant act like you dont know anymore.

the investigation is ongoing. we already know the russians hacked us. the intelligence community has said so. senate has said so. the house has said so.

we have multiple russians responsible for the hack indicted.

the investigation is seeing what all russians were involved, as well as who, if any, americans assisted the russians in hacking/meddling in our election. the investigation ALSO is looking into whether or not trump obstructed justice.

So we have George papadopolous, who pleaded down to a lesser charge of lying to the feds, cooperating with the mueller team.

we have flynn, who pleaded down to a lesser charge, cooperating with the mueller team.

we have gates, who pleaded down to a lesser charge, cooperating with the mueller team.

and now we have cohen, who gave a guilty plea in exchange for less jail time, cooperating with prosecutors.

Gates was Paul manaforts right hand man.

so here's the part where you REALLY need to pay attention. manafort NOW has to go to trial on the 17th of september on charges related to:

money laundering
conspiring to defraud the treasury department
failing to register as a foreign agent
and of course, lying to the feds

you might want to pay close attention to the foreign agent aspect. why?

manafort was working as a political consultant for.....a pro russian political party in ukraine.

you want to know who was the leader of the party he was working for?

Viktor Yanukovych, who was ' president from 2010-2014. this guy, by the way, is currently wanted in ukraine for treason, and is exiled in russia.

is the light bulb starting to flicker? if not, thats ok, im not finished.

roger stone, ya know, the guy we're not talking about as much, is under investigation for his relationship with guccifer 2.0 and wikileaks.

who, or what is guccifer 2.0, you ask? well, surprise suprise, that was the group of russian intelligence officers who were responsible for hacking the DNC.

the same russian intel officers who....guess what? are under federal indictment by mueller.

and thats not even CLOSE to everything. i just simply got bored of typing things you would've known if you paid any sort of attention.

and TB, i respect you a lot. but you need to pay better attention. the investigation is ongoing. and it wont be over anytime soon, and rightfully so.

“I’m going to surround myself only with the best and most serious people. . . . We want top of the line professionals.”

you have now entered the twilight zone.

Juggalos for Trump?

It might be considered degrees of winning but it seems very likely now that he dies in jail. So for manafort it's little consolation.

Indictments, how do they work?

It’s magic!

It's not calculated like an NFL season record.


Here's the key:


Dude was found guilty 8X over.
In case there are still folks out there who are using welder's goggles as 'rose-colored glasses,' here's what that looks like:

Guilty.
Guilty.
Guilty.
Guilty.
Guilty.
Guilty.
Guilty.

...and...

Guilty.

Now, I'm no prosecutor, but that kinda looks like a win streak I can hang a braggin' hat on...

But that's just me.

Maybe Manny, PreziDunce45© and their cheerleading crew see the 10 hung counts as a W. That's their prerogative, but common sense folks like me are thinking: "Jail time is not an optimal outcome."

Who knows? Maybe they're right. After all, we live in an age when America's Mayor is telling us that "Truth isn't truth"...

Witches are burning left and right.
Fake News brings 'film at 11' on The Daily.

This country has spent millions this last year and a half to get Trump on collusion. It’s trophy on the wall, this lackey on tax invasion.

Ready, fire, aim.

Bravo!

Maybe a quote from a Russian born American is appropriate, “what a country”. - Yakov Smirnoff

So Mueller should just ignore Trump’s lies, deceit, hush money payoffs and all his lackey’s for stealing millions from US tax payers because it cost money to do so?

Well great, this actually answered my question! Thank you for your response as it was really detailed. I've yet to hear this type of coherent step by step layout before or maybe I just haven't been paying attention, seriously. I haven't watched the news for a little while because most of it is depressing and negative. I'd rather concentrate on work.

When I hear different people plead guilty and then flip for some type of plea deal, it seems they'll say almost anything to take the plea and indict someone additional. Sometimes this works, but other times it doesn't and leads to supreme court overturns later on. I know others that have lied to the Feds and congress and they're not in trouble.

If these people did shady things then sure, they should go to jail. However, I do start to get upset when justice and the law is not equally applied to everyone; whether that be Clinton, James Clapper, John Brennan, James Comey, individuals in the FBI, people in the DOJ, Loretta Lynch. A lot of those people are shady but they're not in jail yet? Why?

You do realize Cohen’s testimony is irrefutable evidence. The only question is ...will the GOP controlled congress grow a pair and indict.

J/C

We still have a to see, but it seems like so far everything Manafort has been found guilty of could have been investigated by the IRS in a simple audit.

The guy did some shady stuff, and he should be going to jail. However I still don't see how this even comes close to touching trump.

That's because Manafort opted to split the charges into two trials. I agree that the charges in this trial alone do not appear to show any connection to the President. The next trial is about lying to the FBI, money laundering, and failing to register as a foreign agent. Those charges are not something the IRS can tackle. Those charges will also be the ones that give us the clearer insight into who the man is and who is connected to him.

Sounds like someone watched Hannity last night.

Ah yes...the age old FOX NEWS retort. A trending slur from a group that has a stranglehold on literally every other national cable news outlet.

The IRS did an audit, and it wasn’t that simple. He hid foriegn accounts from the IRS and that’s not easy to trace.

He was Trumps campaign manager and was actually in the Trump tower meeting with Jr. and the Russians. Same building and close to touching. Enjoy!

Justice itself will equally apply anything. The people running the justice system and intelligence agencies is an entirely different topic.

I can’t speak on the others, but I want to remind you that Republicans led a multi million dollar investigations into Clinton. She said for hours upon hours in hearings under oath, all investigations led by......republicans.

So you need to ask the leadership you most often vote for as to why Clinton isn’t in jail. We all know republicans hate Hillary, probably more than they hate extremist Muslims, but they led all these investigations and came up with nothing.

Meanwhile, once again, REPUBLICANS are leading the investigations into Russia interference and obstruction of justice.

So I dunno what to tell you bro. Again, you should ask the gop, and you should ask Fox News why republican led everything resulted in no charges for Clinton.

But unfortunately, that has nothing to do with the investigations now. And these investigations have turned into multiple indictments, guilty pleas, and guilty verdicts.

For this to be a witch hunt, mueller seemed to have found the entire coven full of them.

Because the justice system in this country is inherently broken. From top to bottom. We also have no formalized institutions to find corruption within the people who make our laws and uphold them. There's no real accountability for a lot of people at the top. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Unfortunately, the media in most cases. And of course any and all media is politicized to a heavy extent. Both by the media and the audiences watching it. So, we have this never ending game of nonsense.

I took what tasty posted as gish galloping to be honest. Let's throw a bunch of half truths and outright falsehoods out into the conversation to try and derail the discussion, or at the very least muddy the waters.

Well, it's not accurate to say they came up with nothing in regards to Hillary and the email server issue. For the first 10 minutes of Comey's testimony lawyers from both sides were pretty sure it was going to end up with her getting indicted because what Comey laid out was some pretty damning probable cause. The DOJ under the Obama Admin wasn't going to indict her because they weren't going to derail their candidate's seemingly inevitable win.

The big question is why she hasn't been indicted under the Trump Admin. The information is still there, it's not the FBI's call to prosecute or not prosecute. Some Republicans backed off of pursuing that saying to go after her would give the world the impression she was being being punished for political reasons. Maybe there's something to that? Had Trump lost I'm not so sure this entire affair would be happening.

Just a question, if Trump took a wee wee in your cereal and told you it was mothers milk, would you believe him?

Why would Trump lie....Wee wee is magically delicious to the Trump faithful.

I don't think the system is what's broken. We have Rights and protections that most of the world doesn't have. It's not the system but the Judge that hands down excessive punishment for minor crimes or slaps on a wrist for serious crimes. It's the DA that decides to offer plea deals where someone pleas guilty and serves time for the minor pot charge instead of prosecuting them for the sale and distribution of the heroin they had, or the stolen firearm in their possession.

What's missing is a more effective mechanism for accountability as you suggest. But not just accountability for corruption but accountability of what we want or criminal justice system to achieve.

Hey, as a fellow Dawg, I just wanted to point out that you've made the wee wee reference in two posts (the other in football)... there's nothing going on with you we should be concerned about.. is there? No fetish... you aren't named somewhere in the Trump Dossier are you?

You aren't secretly a Russian prostitute named Natasha are you? (Or Boris.. it's a strange world, who am I to judge?)

At least you admit that the Trump Dossier is what we thought it was.

About as much as Monica Lewinsky had to do with White Water.