I feel the O is kinda nearing what our D was last year. Showing glimpses at times but not nearly complete. This thing isn't going to be the "Greatest turnaround in sports history". It'll turn but in 19-20 and beyond. Lots of work to do.
Your D can't produce 4 turnovers and your O only produce 3 points from that. When the D produces a turnover you must capitalize on that.
People were warned that TT will look fine sometimes and very lackluster other times. Well, you saw the lackluster last night. We have Jekyll and Hyde as our QB.
Our D is in its second year with more talent. It's showing on the field of play.
I guess my question to our fans is a simple one. If we win some games by scores like 13-10, 15-13, 9-6, will anyone really care if we are winning?
TT wasn't brilliant, but far from lackluster.
Landry was lackluster,bordering pathetic on that series Haley was lackluster, bordering idiotic on that series.
On a slugging game, like yesterday the most important is not to make mistakes. We should learn from that.
Don't let your QB go wondering like headless chicken, there isn't going to be a play to make with such high caliber D, and even if there is we don't have the talent to make it.
I feel the O is kinda nearing what our D was last year. Showing glimpses at times but not nearly complete. This thing isn't going to be the "Greatest turnaround in sports history". It'll turn but in 19-20 and beyond. Lots of work to do.
Until we stop drafting like idiots, it will not change.
The O is gonna take some time we lost our HOF LT, we have a new RT, a rookie at LG, and a backup currently playing RG, a whole new group of QBs, 2 new RBs (1 of which is a rookie), an inconsistent TE who is just in his 2nd year, and basically a whole new group of WRs. The only player on O who was a starter all last year and still at their original position is Tretter, so it will take time for them to gel.
I have said my piece about Kizer, we can agree to disagree, lets just move on from that. (I just needed to get that out of my system)
What I see from Mayfield, he is atleast 18 months away from being ready IF we handle the situation properly.
Handling situation properly means he sits this year no matter what. He runs the scout team, he works in practice with Haley, and hones his craft. If both Taylor and Stanton go down, you sign someone off the street and Baker still sits. He gains nothing playing on a bad team that is losing with lots of injuries, all he gains is getting the stuffing knocked out of him.
Next year he competes for the job, not handed to him, I said competes...if he wins, you move forward with him, if not,we got a problem.
As I have said before, I hope I am wrong on my assessments. I hope Baker is the guy, I just want to win. Regardless, we should err on the side of caution and bring Mayfield along very slowly. We also need to run the ball.
If Mayfield is thrust in this year, if he isn't Manning out the gate fans will turn on him faster then he an hit 90 in a Ferrari...its not a conductive environment for rookie QB's...
The O stalled last night but I think relying on mostly our second tier receivers was the biggest issue. We need Josh, Calloway, Higgins, and Landry on the field.
Tyrod had a rough night. Baker did just OK. We can't forget he's a rookie.
And lastly, we faced last years number 4 ranked regular season defense, number 2 postseason defense, and defending Super bowl Champion defense. So the O had their work cut out for them.
The play calling from the ONE yard line was ATROCIOUS ... we were probably trying to work on throwing it, but YIKES
Those was absolutely the WORST calls at the one yard I have ever seen in my life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FOUR, not Three, not TWO, not ONE, but FOUR FRICKIN PASSES ON THE ONE YARD LINE~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Same mess, different time.
I am hoping that our coaches were working on one of the things that they REALLY need to work on and that play calling sequence will not happen in the regular season
Our first string defense has been very good this whole preseason.
The offense as expected has a ways to go. I just don't see them in proper stride yet. There were some good plays but no consistency.
Hyde has looked good. He is faster and quicker than I had thought.
The passing game is not in full gear yet. I was expecting to see more of Duke in the pass game.
Gordon should help to open the field and take the top off the deep game. Callaway will also help once he gets comfortable ( it will take a half season at least).
OL starters and backups are a weak spot at this point.
Taylor didn't show much but I am not going to rip the guy. The offense has to play better as a unit not just him.
We have a good defense. They will help this team win games.
I am hoping that our coaches were working on one of the things that they REALLY need to work on and that play calling sequence will not happen in the regular season
I'm reading a lot of posters complaining about the play calling at the goal line. I agree, that looked very much like they were using a meaningless game to work on a specific package...working out the kinks before it counts.
Last edited by W84NxtYrAgain; 08/24/1801:00 PM.
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I can't believe how much we need to rely on Josh Gordon and Callaway, two big unknowns/idiots, but key pieces to a group with only Jarvis. Higgins is hopeful.
Bad play calling but it's preseason where coaches call plays just to judge player(s) and etc, but still, bad calls made via Todd.
The defense will get Coley back and be even better. We can rotate alot of people in alot of positions with decent depth.
I'm trying to shake the bad feeling that the O would have performed just the same with Gordon and Calloway on the field. That's nuts though, right? It would have just made Landry, Njoku, whoever more open.
Tyrod looked better when he came back in. We seemed to be moving the ball when time ran out on the first half.
Baker needs more time. Keep him off the field, PLEASE!
O-Line . . . ugggh
Felt good watching the D do so well. Looked more like a pro D than I've seen in . . . can't remember. We WILL be getting to Big Ben and the lot. In sacks if not major hurries.
What I see from Mayfield, he is atleast 18 months away from being ready IF we handle the situation properly.
I can't wrap my head around this. Not only is he not ready but now there's a timetable for when he will be as if there is some magic formula.
I'm not sure if people expect a number 1 draft pick to be Tom Brady, or what... None are, none will be. All quarterbacks will need time to adjust to the speed of the NFL. Even a guy like Andrew Luck had to, although he was helped by the system he played in in college. Whether we suffer thru a few of the lumps this year, or next year, or in two years, we will have to weather Mayfield learning on the field. Good coaching can minimize this.
Mayfield is easily the best quarterback we've drafted since 1999. I don't see a need to wait. I don't believe quarterbacks can be "broken" if started too early. I believe either you got it or you don't. It might take some longer than others, but almost no one can walk right in from college and be a pro bowl quarterback his first year. Doesn't happen. Coaching can make you look like a probowl quarterback, like RG3, but there's still a transition.
I know you're not looking to argue. I'm just getting it out of my system.
Baker has a better short and intermediate ball, Kizer has by far a better long ball.
If you are talking about arm strength, I'd probably agree that Kizer was stronger,,, The problem is, you just never know into whose hands it will land.
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Baker has a better short and intermediate ball, Kizer has by far a better long ball.
If you are talking about arm strength, I'd probably agree that Kizer was stronger,,, The problem is, you just never know into whose hands it will land.
I don't think we can know that by now, so its more of a supposition, since I haven't seen a long pass by BM outside the numbers.
I saw Kizer doing it, and honestly I think he had a good ball when he had a stable platform, problem was decision making and him playing rattled all the time.
So far, all I can judge is the athletic ability and by far Kizer has better tools, although I have no doubts that BM right now is a better QB.
Still the point is mute, because Kizer busting is/was almost immaterial. BM busting is going probably to be the biggest mistake made by a team in NFL history. Will make the Tim Couch decision pale in comparison.
If GB can make Kizer work, it will be a good thing, and honestly I think its a possibility, because I have little doubts many of the problems with Kizer were mental and stress handling related, something that improves tenfold with time and maturity.
BM on the other can't grow taller and arm improvement is marginal, so he better be mentally stronger and a faster/good decision maker.
I thought Hyde ran with aggression again hes the most consistant player on offense so far. Baker Mayfield looks like another version of Andy Dalton.not a upper tier arm but on those 15 20 yd outs he can get it there. good pocket awareness. Taylor is a bridge qb no more no less. Jarvis Landry averaged 8.8 ypc for a reason.hes a intermediate WR making game breaker money. hes not gonna take a top off a defense I didnt notice The All Pro Duke Johnson do much. theres no flow to the play calling Haley looks lost without the 3 Bs. oline is barely holding its water.
defensively they looked fast and the pursuit angles were good. Garrett destroyed a bum LT. thats what he is supposed to do defense is ahead of the offense but no defense can survive 3 and outs and be constantly on the field cause the offense is high schoolish
I thought Hyde ran with aggression again hes the most consistant player on offense so far. Baker Mayfield looks like another version of Andy Dalton.not a upper tier arm but on those 15 20 yd outs he can get it there. good pocket awareness. Taylor is a bridge qb no more no less. Jarvis Landry averaged 8.8 ypc for a reason.hes a intermediate WR making game breaker money. hes not gonna take a top off a defense I didnt notice The All Pro Duke Johnson do much. theres no flow to the play calling Haley looks lost without the 3 Bs. oline is barely holding its water.
defensively they looked fast and the pursuit angles were good. Garrett destroyed a bum LT. thats what he is supposed to do defense is ahead of the offense but no defense can survive 3 and outs and be constantly on the field cause the offense is high schoolish
TT is looking good,maybe a bridge QB, but it will all depend on the supporting cast and the OC.
I was very disappointed with Landry,honestly for a slot receiver to make the two mistakes he did on the end zone, its almost unexcusable.
He was taken out of the play, not once, but twice, like a rookie.... Either that or the play and rout design was that stupid, which I do not believe.
I think we are a West Coast Offense team, so nobody is supposed to take the top of the D on a regular basis.
Duke was disappointing, screen passes and dumps were the major disappointment for me. Don't know if it was the player or the plays being called...
D has to be able to take themselves out of the field, don't go blaming O ineptitude. If we play a bend but don't break defense, then its by design we stay long on the field.
D has to carry and set the tempo, O only has to manage and protect the ball. Special teams is going to be critical.
Mayfield and TT are holding the ball too much, that's not having a good pocket presence in my book, that's just asking to get hurt.
We don't need,nor drafted a QB with good pocket presence, we signed and drafted 2 QB's that are supposed to be quick throwers, high efficient game managers.
If we wanted a QB to make and extend plays , we should have drafted Darnold, if we wanted a Pocket QB, we should have drafted Rosen.
IMO the entire defense earned their stripes. Give it to them Coach. Make the offense go without stripes and oh..remove the stripes from Todd H. wardrobe please.
The play calling from the ONE yard line was ATROCIOUS ... we were probably trying to work on throwing it, but YIKES
Those was absolutely the WORST calls at the one yard I have ever seen in my life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FOUR, not Three, not TWO, not ONE, but FOUR FRICKIN PASSES ON THE ONE YARD LINE~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Same mess, different time.
I am hoping that our coaches were working on one of the things that they REALLY need to work on and that play calling sequence will not happen in the regular season
The one thing they really need to work on is punching it in the end zone. You stick with what’s working. Every OC knows that, or should. They would have scored and not lost the momentum when TT sustained a wrist injury. We’ve all seen crap before out of this team but that set of plays was 100% craptastic. I was furious and my wife went for ice cream to get out of the house.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Baker Mayfield looks like another version of Andy Dalton.not a upper tier arm but on those 15 20 yd outs he can get it there.
Man, whats that say about all the other arms coming out the draft, since Baker had the second strongest arm coming out this year.....
Quote:
Jarvis Landry averaged 8.8 ypc for a reason.hes a intermediate WR making game breaker money. hes not gonna take a top off a defense
I am sure that has nothing to do with the fact he has had Matt Moore, Ryan Tannehill, and a washed up Jay Cutler throwing him the ball, huh? The dude is a playmaker.
Quote:
Haley looks lost without the 3 Bs.
Is that why he consistant has had a good offense for 20+ years? Weird, I didn't know 3 B's played that long....
Quote:
oline is barely holding its water.
I don't believe we have had our starting oline together for a entire game yet, they will gel.
I don't believe we have had our starting oline together for a entire game yet, they will gel.
It's not even the O-line. We had a grand total of two guys on offense playing in positions that they played for us last year. TWO. Njoku and Tretter. Add to that, we have a new offensive coordinator.
Why is it that year after year, we blow up our offense and/or coaching staff, insert new pieces, and expect them to work together flawlessly as if they've played together for years? Offenses like the Packers, Patriots and Steelers work because the guys there have been playing with most of the same teammates and in similar systems for years. New guys that get plugged in work because at least the other 90% of the team knows what they're doing.
We keep doing the same Wash, Rinse, Repeat routine and expecting immediate results.
Myles reminded me of the minister of Defense. I tell ya, the D isnt perfect but they do some stuff that is damn near scary.
Run game, run blocking check.
Pass blocking, we miss Zeitler and lets hope Greg Robinson only enters the game on special teams.
Tyrod imho sucks butt. He simply cant make throws that win you games. 4 yards per pass unfreaking real. It was Colt McCoy being a stat ho all over again.
Mayfield needs work but man some of those passes were wow. Someone just step up and say i earned it. once again, we see Browns QBs not taking the spot. Tyord was given the spot, done nothing to keep it but Baker just didnt do enough to take it either.
Oh Tyrod can make those throws. Just not all the time. He'll have games that make you impressed, then he'll have games that make you go WTF. As time goes by you'll see. It's not inability but a lack of consistency that's the problem.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I’m no fan of TT ... he is what he is ... and thats much better than last years nightmare but he still is what he is ...
But come on .... take an honest look at the situation ...
- he’s in a brand new O with brand new coaches and brand new weapons and teammates ..
- drive #2 we run the ball right down the field then bad TT shows up .... the 1st toss to Landry was way uncatchable even if Landry didn't get blocked .... then he throws a frickin laser on 2nd down ... he had to zing it but sheesh ... he tried to throw it threw him ...
Then he gets hurt ...
So instead of having a TD to show for two series we have no points and a broke QB ... who is obviously in ALOT OF PAIN!!!!
- comes back in and it was downhill from there ...
- no Josh, Calloway or Zietler ....
Give dude a chance ... he’ll give u plenty of reason to get on him in 5 or 6 weeks when it will be a lot more warranted ... just be patient ... *L* ...
I don't believe we have had our starting oline together for a entire game yet, they will gel.
It's not even the O-line. We had a grand total of two guys on offense playing in positions that they played for us last year. TWO. Njoku and Tretter. Add to that, we have a new offensive coordinator.
Why is it that year after year, we blow up our offense and/or coaching staff, insert new pieces, and expect them to work together flawlessly as if they've played together for years? Offenses like the Packers, Patriots and Steelers work because the guys there have been playing with most of the same teammates and in similar systems for years. New guys that get plugged in work because at least the other 90% of the team knows what they're doing.
We keep doing the same Wash, Rinse, Repeat routine and expecting immediate results.
Three thumbs up!
Just like the signs before the construction zones......Slow down! Let em work, let em live!
Last year: QB: Kizer RB: Crowell RB: Duke TE: Njoku LT: Joe Thomas/Drango LG: Bitonio C: Tretter RG: Zeittler RT: Coleman WR1: Gordon WR2: Coleman
This year: QB: Taylor RB: Hyde RB: Duke TE: Njoku LT: Bitonio LG: Corbett C: Tretter RG: Drango RT: Hubbard WR1: Landry WR2: Higgins/Callaway (at least for now)
So, out of 11 offensive starters, we have .. what ... 3 of the same guys playing at the same positions as last year.
It takes time for an offensive unit to gel. Hopefully they manage to get it together in the practices leading up to the regular season opened. However, they are going to have a lot of work to do, just because of the massive turnover.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Last year: QB: Kizer RB: Crowell RB: Duke TE: Njoku LT: Joe Thomas/Drango LG: Bitonio C: Tretter RG: Zeittler RT: Coleman WR1: Gordon WR2: Coleman
This year: QB: Taylor RB: Hyde RB: Duke TE: Njoku LT: Bitonio LG: Corbett C: Tretter RG: Drango RT: Hubbard WR1: Landry WR2: Higgins/Callaway (at least for now)
So, out of 11 offensive starters, we have .. what ... 3 of the same guys playing at the same positions as last year.
It takes time for an offensive unit to gel. Hopefully they manage to get it together in the practices leading up to the regular season opened. However, they are going to have a lot of work to do, just because of the massive turnover.
Agreed, it could be a very long start to the season.....
Two more weeks of practice for the rook on the OL and the left side of the OL ... THATS HUGE .... Zietler being out is a real bummer on two fronts ... we need him and he’s not building chemistry with Hubbard ...
- Josh best be back well before then ... hopefully he’s cleared to practice by tomorrow ...
- Zietler and Calloway will be back .... hopefully Zietler will be by then ...
- two more weeks of reps for TT and his skill position players ....
We can do some things on O ... our run game is capable ... we struggled in the run game week 1 and have improved each week ... and we’ve played 3 DAMM GOOD FRONT 7’S ... it wasn’t all roses against the Iggles but taking everything into consideration they did one hell of a job ... its really a shame Hyde’s gonna get hurt ... he’s pretty damm good ...
last night was as bad as TT will play ... he is what he is ... hes not great by any stretch and has his share of faults ... but he is capable of walking and chewing gum most of the time ... *L* ...
We’ve got enough talent around him to keep us in games ... were not gonna need TT to win games for us he just needs to make a few plays and NOT LOSE THEM ...
Today I read that the offense has struggled to score in goal-to-go situations throughout training camp. I believe the play calling so many are complaining about was intended to put on tape something specific that Haley wants to address. I believe that to be the reason for the play calling. Working on fixing a problem in preseason is exactly what the offense should be doing, even at the expense of scoring.
Deshone Kizer was farther along at this point then Baker Mayfield is, and Kizer was only 21.
Kizer has: Better footwork Bigger Stronger Arm Much better velocity on his throws Better Ball placement
the ONLY thing Kizer struggled with was reading coverages, and that will come simply with time and good coaching(which he didn't get here)Kizer was unfairly blamed for our poor record last year,when in reality poor play calling, lack of a running game, injuries, and a porus defense are every bit as much to blame.
It was bittersweet watching Kizer throw 2 TD's against the Steelers last week. you can see Kizer has improved greatly, and thats what happens when you get proper coaching like he is getting in Green Bay, which he never got here.
I'd take Kizer over Mayfield anyday if I was picking them out of the draft...Kizer is bigger, stronger, just as mobile, much better arm, the only things Kizer lacked last year was experience. Mayfield lacks a lot of things, the most prominent ones being height and lack of athletic ability.
Kizer made chucking the rock downfield look effortless because he has a canon for an arm, Baker looks like he has to use everything he has just to get the ball 15 yards downfield.
Again, I think Baker will have a 50/50 shot of working out, ONLY IF we give him a year to a year and a half to sit...because he doesn't have the natural athleitc ability or big arm to overcome his mistakes this early on.
We should have kept Kizer, a year and program under Haley would have bore us wonderful fruit this year, but Browns fans just have no patience to develop anyone...Green Bay will develop him though...evne McCarthy said Kizer is every bit as good and talented as the guys coming out of the 1st round this year, the Packers fleeced us on that trade, no two ways about it...Kizer should still be on this roster right now as Taylor's backup, and a future starter...Kizer was a sitting year away from probably being answer...was a lot to work with Kizer when compared to Mayfield athletically, Kizer is a smart kid, you can see in Green Bay the game is slowing down for him and he is learning how to read coverages, sky's the limit for that young man...what a shame...he coulda done that here for us...
Kizer is very inaccurate. A terrible trait to have in the NFL.
Yep.
And he gets real panicky under pressure and throws some bad passes because of it. I hope the best for him though, he seems like a good guy, but I'm really glad he's gone. The biggest reason being his inaccuracy.
1. Some of the Baker Bashing is unfair. He has a long way to go in terms of making both pre and post-snap reads, but the guy has a very good arm, plays w/moxie, is very confident, and is pretty darn accurate most of the time. He has exceeded my expectations.
2. The constant Hue Hating by a few posters is beyond lame. Criticizing him for bringing Tyrod back in. Bringing up Njoku's usage. Good God. Just stop.
3. Criticizing the play calling in preseason games is not a good idea. Teams/coaches work on different things. The games do not count in the standings. Relax.
Pretty sure I'm the only one who mentioned that. And yes, finally. He and Duke were underutilized last year. Especially considering a team that gets a break for passing so much.
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