DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Denzel Ward

I also like the fact that Williams is trying to teach him how to keep his body to last longer.

That was one thing I remember Myles Garret saying was how he had learned to play without damaging his body.

If Williams teaching a smaller framed Ward who likes to hit..how to stay healthy and on the field longer..

Than coach it up Coach.

I did not see where he called Ward stupid...Just the Tackling method.

I was just going to post the same thing .. was on my way to look for the quote to post it ..

He called how he tackled stupid .. he didnt call him stupid ...

I could really care less .... he’s not at Urban’s star player spa anymore ... there are no safe spaces in Williams world .. *L* ...

My biggest take away from this is that this may be a sign Hue is very insecure .. no clue if theres reason for him to be but the way he talked to Haley in the one episode i thought was overboard ... no biggie in and of itself but now theres a pattern beggining to emerge ....

I hope he’s not feeling insecure ... thats a bad place to be making decisions from ...

Wow! Way to turn it around.

I see what you are doing here, Diam.

The BS Isle talk.

You keep selling it so you can throw Hue into the shark infested waters when the ferry hits choppy waters.

So.........next time you wanna talk football........talk w/Memphis, Vambo, device, peen, etc.

I answer every freaking question you ask me, but you blow me off when I ask you questions like "is it smart for a HC to allow a qb controversy?"

I see your posts on Hard Knocks and how you are so high on the coordinators and not one positive word about Hue...............who has been--by far--the most impressive coach on the show.

It's one thing to not like a guy and it is another to weave a web of deception in order to trap your victim. Have fun w/your new crew.

[quote]I hope he’s not feeling insecure ... thats a bad place to be making decisions from ...[/quotet]


Hue seemed very secure when he was telling the other coaches that he's making decisions from the bus..Because he's the bus driver..he drives the bus.

Here we go again .... u ain’t sucking me in Vers ... but once again I would appreciate it if you’d quit LYING and putting words in my mouth .... i’ve stuck up for your boy PLENTY ... i let your BS slide in the Urban Liar thread ... not this time ...

Just cause i don’t think Hues an angel and isn’t perfect doesn’t mean i’m setting him up ... like i said above, i’ve stuck up for him plenty ...

EVERYTIME, ANYONE says a negative word about Hue there part of the conspiracy ... thats getting as old and cringe worthy as those u defend him against ...

U didn’t like my answer in PM’s about your “question” about QB controversies .. I highly doubt your going to like it here either ... *L* ...

U caught Willie in a mis-step ... he stuck his foot in his mouth like we all do sometimes ... u called him out .... rightfully so ... he defended it like a good lawyer would then like a good lawyer u asked the “question” ... im paraphrasing ... do HC’s like QB controversies .... THATS NOT A QUESTION ... its an INSULT IN QUESTION FORM ... i’m not a fan of lawyers ... *LOL* ...

I’ll answer any legite question anyone has ... what i wont do is get involved with you and your posse ... sorry if my refusal to do that = i’m not worthy to discuss football with in your world ..

Look man ... i told u i was going to have fun and enjoy this season and this place with or without U ...

U don’t wanna answer my questions ... thats YOUR CHOICE ... it ain’t gonna keep me from asking them ...

Just cause u don’t like me won’t keep me from trying to talk football with U .. i can only control what comes out of this end of the keyboard ... lets see what u decide comes out of yours ...

OK ... u sucked me in this time .. *L* ... it will be the last ...

J/C

I'm a little miffed at Williams for his comments. We know what Williams is like, so it comes across worse than the tough-love that he intends, but I feel like that's something you say to the player but not the media. Using an injury to criticize a rookie for tackling technique is just a step too far for the media, in my opinion, especially when it detracts from a rookie who has otherwise lived up to the hype.

I'm also sick to death of reading about Ward being undersized. Literally the dumbest criticism I've seen of a player. He's right there with Casey Hayward, who was considered the best corner in the NFL last year. Except Hayward is about to turn 29 and Ward just turned 21. Marshon Lattimore won DROY and he's literally 6'0" 192. Ward is the same size as our other corners, Mitchell and BBC (192, but 5'9"), who are both looking like studs out there.

I can't fathom why this kid takes such heat for his size and why it's a constant talking point. He's not that small, there are a plethora of guys the same size who have zero issue. Not only that, but Ward is notorious for laying the wood. Kid is a big hitter who has dropped plenty of guys on their backside.

So, yeah, TL;DR - Williams needs to calm down. Ward took a low angle and it bent him. Save that for the player, not the press. The injury wasn't because Ward is small or bad at tackling. Just one of those things. He's fine, he'll be fine for week one, and he'll hopefully continue to shine.

“a web of deception”

Interesting turn of a phrase.

Not trying to "suck you in." I'm just saying you can talk football w/Memphis, WSU, peen, device, etc.

I wasn't trying to "catch" WSU into a damn thing. He made crap up. I corrected him. He tried to turn it around. The bottom line was this..................."is a coach right to try and avoid a qb controversy?" I asked you to reply. You went off on a freaking tangent.

It was a legit question. I get why you didn't answer it. You hate Hue and want him fired. You are setting up unrealistic expectations and when the team doesn't meet them, you are going to be all over his ass, just as you were last year w/all your dumb ass "Fire Hue" threads.

Good post. Can you imagine if Hue would have made the comments that Williams made about Ward?

LMAO..............this place would be going nuts!

JMO, would have been better to keep that in the locker room.

I agree, if you mean Hue's.

I didn't mind Williams's.

You want to avoid a QB controversy? Let the QBs compete and may the best man win the job. Sort of like every other position on the team.

You want to create a QB controversy? Squelch any semblance of a competition and anoint another guy as the starter.

In Willie-World...all I asked for was that the last few series per practice with the 111, go to the future...oh the horror. That's not making things up. That's expressing an opinion...while consistently opining that we are better off with TT winning the starting gig.

Calling me out in a Denzel Ward thread tells one all they need to know on the issue.

Williams was the one who was the ass. He doesn't even know what the hell he is talking about in this case.

Dude, you don't like me and I don't like you. Period.

That's all you've got as a response? I don't know you to the point of saying I 'don't like you' but I've dealt with many of your ilk in my lifetime.

You can't follow the bouncing ball long enough to get down to the issue...that's on you...not me.

I was willing to let you have the last word...not so much tonight.

That's all I have because that is all you are worth. Now, I am done discussing this w/you, but go ahead and get the last word in.

I'll take it...thanks...you think squelching competition is the path to avoiding a QB controversy...I think not. That is the basis of our most-recent disagreement.

Thanks for the last word though.

I didn't like Hue saying "Gregg doesn't get to do what he wants to..." quote. Shoulda kept that in house, as should Williams with his thoughts on Ward (I think that's what we get with a guy like Williams, though).

As for Williams being wrong about the tackling form, I merely took it as him saying a little guy doesn't have to take on a big guy up high. Not all the time, but generally speaking.

OTOH, I never played/coached so what the hell do I know?

So you are a big fan of the "He works hard, he's showing improvement, he still has some things to learn...." press conferences. Fair enough.... not much of a need for press conferences then.


Make no mistake, I have a line that shouldn't be crossed by players and by coaches... this just doesn't cross it.

Where would Gregg Williams get the idea that criticizing players to the media is acceptable?



https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/...coaching-gaffe/



https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2749...ill-ever-get-it

To be fair, Gregg Williams says dumb stuff all the time, this time it just happened to be about a player.

I don't think either of these are fair examples.

My issue, and I think what irks most people, isn't that a player was criticized. That happens all the time. It's part of football and always will be.

This time is different because it regarded an injury. Williams could have approached it with a little more tact and sensitivity. I can think of endless re-phrasings that don't come across as being so crass.

We expect players to be criticized for their play; but when it comes to a play that resulted in injury, there are better ways to go about it.

I don't think so.

It is about being smart. The CB doesn't need to take on a 250 lb tight end like that.

Chop him down and play another play.

And how do you chop a 250 lb without taking a hit?

Honestly had the hope this would be a nice start for a discussion about tackling.

The only reason I can think off the NFL to chop players is because its a paying show and people love hits and blood and players being carted out with concussions and neck and spine injuries.

Does not matter how big you are, yo have a high chance of getting hurt if you don't follow the fundamentals.

Now I can understand Greg being mad with Ward because he was trying to teach the fundamentals and Ward was not listening.In the play in question its obvious that there were some fundamental flaws, the most important and essential was Ward not being Squared and adding momentum by moving down -> up with this increasing the chances of hurting himself, specially on the neck and spine.

What I disagree with Gregg, taking into consideration that IMHO, he was just venting his frustration, is saying/teaching his DB's to CHOP...

The whole concept of chopping implies masses colliding at high speed....

j/c:

What's missing in all of these posts where people are lining up on "sides" yet again is that Ward is the best form tackler on the entire defense. LOL.........you guys kill me sometimes.

j/c

Oh the irony.

We have one player who can't stay clean for a season to contribute to the team. Year after year he disappoints his team, his coaches and his fans. The coaches publicly support him when he leaves before training camp. The fans line up to support him as well.

We have another player who's in camp working his ass off and when a coach berates him in public the fan base applauds.

You can't make this BS up.

I think greg needs to learn to keep his comments about players in the locker room, behind closed doors.

What he said was disrespectful to the player, and if he really has an issue with the way he is talking, maybe he should as a coach, COACH him to tackle differently.

GW is an idiot....plain and simple. He is a wannabe tough guy that would get pounced any day of the week by about 9/10 average joes walking the street.

Hes also a hypocrite...



I don't remember anything by accolades for Myles from Williams... yet Myles has not proven he can stay healthy yet..... so which is it greg? Are you just an idiot, or a hypocrite?

Williams needs to A. Teach him to tackle then - hes had an entire offseason to do so and B. Needs to keep his comments in the locker room.

I think GW is doing a great job but like Trump sometimes his mouth gets ahead of his brain.

Our def looked good in preseason last year, too. Remember, we are playing vanilla offenses. Where was out D last year?

How many teams has Greg been fired from?

He has a lot to prove before I say hes doing a "great job". Also, you can take the political jabs to the forum...keep this football.

I don't like Gregg Wiliams as a person. I agree that he is "fake." However, I do think he is a good defensive coach and I can separate that from his personality.

I just think he was wrong to call Ward out. Ward is an excellent tackler. I think he is the surest tackler on the team. His form is textbook. I think Williams was talking out of his ass w/this cut stuff. There are a few times when you cut guys, but I sure as hell would never teach it as the go-to tackling style.

It's no wonder why the tackling in the NFL has gotten so poor over the years.

Not really seeing anyone “applaud”. I see fans saying it’s not a big deal as some are making it out to be. The only irony is the BS you are making up.

Ah so people don't, year after year excuse Gordon's actions? Letting the team down? Wasting his talent?

Yet a hard working guy busting his ass and doing his best for the team gets called out in public and that's fine to you?

Speaking of BS. You need to get that BS outta here! lmao

j/c:

I want to make one more point about this subject and it is a significant one. I hope that some of you are taking Williams' side over Ward's take the time to think about it.

When I played, I always said I would rather a guy go high on me than try to take out my knees. My knees were off limits. You went after them and we were going to fight. I think almost every football or basketball player feels the same damn way.

Flying missiles dive-bombing knees are the surest way to end a guy's career. Even if it isn't ended, it takes a long-ass time to recover from ACLs.

Think about it. When do you see the players get the most upset? High hits or when someone goes low and tries to take out their knees.

Gregg Williams is known for Bounty Gate. I think teaching guys to cut players as a primary form of tackling is not only fundamentally poor, but it is also dirty and cheap.

My thoughts on this ... on the actual subject ..

I think its another mountain out of a mole hill ... i don’t like what Williams did but i dont think he did anything wrong ... he didnt call Ward stupid ... he was getting a point across and he did it in a very trump like manner ... *L* ...

I’m a keep things in house kinda guy ... i’ve drilled Hue for it in the past more than once ... so i dont like doing that stuff in the press ... I also don’t think he said anything out of line ... he said it in a dumb ass non constructive way ... it was a HORRIBLE TEACHING MOMENT IMO ...

If this does bother Ward ... we made a bad pick ... a shut down corner out on an island needs to be way more mentally tough than that ...

STUPID comment by Williams thats been blown way out of proportion ...

Carry on Dawgs .... we gots work to do ...

9/9 is right around the corner ...

LETS GOOOOOOoooooooooooo

Are you even reading my posts? I am not blasting Williams for going public w/this. I am blasting him for his position.

You used to agree w/me about wrapping up. You loved it years ago when I made a comment about "you can't go anywhere w/out your feet." Remember?

What happened?

Why is diving at a guys knees a good way to tackle? Also, I know for a fact that guys in the NFL would much rather you go high than low. I can post articles to prove it. I googled it after I made my post about how I hated guys going after my knees. It's dirty.

I want to have a real football discussion about this rather than who is right or wrong to say things to the media. I don't give a rat's butt about that.

I think Williams is giving his guys bad advice. I also think that Ward has the best tackling form on the entire team.

I agree with that part ... the wrapping ... no doubt ...

I wasn’t clear enough ... i don’t think he called Ward stupid ... even though i dont like airing things in public i dont think Williams crossed any lines in going after Ward as far as that aspect goes ....

Wasn’t defending the words he used to describe what Ward did wrong ... dude had to have mis spoken ... the words that came out are not good tackling form ... i think he just phrased it wrong ...

I should have also said J/c as it wasn’t directed at u .. just my thoughts ...

Okay, I get the j/c thang.

But again, I don't care about all the hurt little feelings. I'm trying to talk football.

I think Williams is giving bad advice. I think it's also dirty to go after knees. I think it's stupid to dive at players and not wrap up.

I admit that occasionally you are in a position where you have to do it because there are blockers in the way and you gotta knife in there and try to take the dude out. But Williams is getting on Ward for "form tackles" and saying he needs to listen to the way he is teaching him to tackle.

I'm saying he is teaching them wrong. Dead wrong!!!!

I know you don't like Ohio State, but those guys are taught how to tackle. Look around the league and take note of all the DBs that come from Ohio State. Almost every single one of them is an excellent tackler. And Ward is near--or at--the top of the list.

And again.....google whether or not nfl players would rather get hit high or at the knees. You will see tons of evidence of what I am talking about. You don't try and take a man's knees out. It's a cheap and dirty tactic.

Agree with every single thing u just said except for i believe we see one thing differently ...

One thing ... i think Urban’s a lying pos ... just like Saban and a whole bunch more college coaches at that level ... but make no mistake about it ... i think hes a hell of a football coach and hes a great communicator that has hired good teachers ...

One of the reasons i wanted Ward over Chubb was cause of the rep of the OSU DB’s and how well and quickly they transition to the nfl ..

Anyhow ... if Williams is teaching them to tackle the way he came across then i’m With U .. i cant believe thats what he’s actually teaching them ... it makes no sense ...

I agree he’s a POS and going after knees is frowned upon and cheap ... just like crack back blocks ...

Touché. LOL