DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Desmond Harrison

It's probably a combination of both, but again I will say that once Joe retired, this was never going to be an "ideal" situation.

The other thing to factor in addition to how good/bad Harrison and Corbett are is that it's probably not debatable that Bitonio is better at LG rather than LT. I always thought Joel could play LT, but he is very good at LG.

The bottom line is that the staff is trying to put the best combination out there to help the team win. I don't think it is a "risky" decision. It's them doing the best they can w/what they have.

And again, Corbett's lofty draft status and Harrison's poor-man's status would certainly give the former the edge on most teams. I find it rather refreshing that we chose to play what we thought were the best guys rather than the guys w/the highest draft status.

In summary, I have no idea if Harrison will be good, bad, or competent. I'm not making any proclamations of how he will play. I simply believe that our staff is playing the best 5 guys. Thus, I can't say that this is a "risky" move.

I also think they wanted Bitoio at LG because of Hayward. We can't afford interior pressure right now (or at all).

Corbett clearly isn't ready in their eyes.

Jes clicking.
I don't see what the worry about the combination is at guard and left tackle.
This is the way I see it and I guess I'm to simple minded....if Harrison starts sucking it up the coaches will say "Hey Joel....go back in the next series at tackle and you Austin ..go back to guard"

It's just that simple in my small mind and we right back to the last game of preseason.
No harm no foul ! Some are making a mountain out of a mole Hill it seems.

In addressing the LT position, the Browns started by trying to sign Nate Solder, but he signed elsewhere. By several accounts, the draft class was almost devoid of LT prospects, and the 1 guy with the skill set had serious concerns. So they drafted who they saw as the best available OL even if they didn't think he was the answer at LT. They also signed the guy with serious concerns when he went undrafted.

They announced that Shon Coleman was getting first crack, but he failed. Drango had already tried and proved inadequate. The next step was to try Harrison, but he was injured so they jumped to 'plan z', moving Bitonio over from LG and replacing him with Corbett. The reason that was plan z is because it weakened LG to address LT. So when Harrison was able to play, and showed the skills and abilities required for the position, moving Bitonio back to where he is proven made more sense.

Will Harrison prove out? Only time will tell. But the coaching staff rightly judged that it's better to have confidence in LG and questions about LT than to have questions about both LG and LT.

Your last couple posts like this should be re-read by everyone (like me) who are deeply worried about Harrison starting, and the timeline leading up to it. Well thought out, rational explaination of the situation. It's easy to forget the bind JT's retirement put us in, with the lack of options being what it was. The only real solution was the one decent FA that was out there (Solder). They slowly and methodically went about figuring out the left side. They identified the "least worst" fallback of sliding Bitonio over early on, which was good. They went through all the different possibilities (Coleman, Durango, Corbett), none of which were good but had to be looked at before crossing off those options and moving on. Harrison being injured is another thing that made this process more difficult than it should've been.
When you slow down and look at the situation, it's harder to find fault with how the coaches and FO handled this. It's just that, as browns fans it's hard to step back from the ledge in these types of situations.
On the surface, shuffling your line around days before you open against the Steelers and putting a UDFA with the past he's had in at starting LT, and holding off on announcing that as if you're playing mind games with your opponent has to be one of the Brownsiest series of events, ever. Calming down and looking at it helps me to understand, just at first glance it has factory of sadness written all over it.

Lastly, I never thought this had any bearing on Corbett. I think you had to really dislike the pick in order to draw a conclusion.

IMO the reason we sought out Fells and kept Charles was for this reason. They are good blockers and will help ease the transition for our new LT.

In saying so, I think the coaches thought starting Harrison and keeping Bitonio at his natural spot was the less of two evils

Or maybe like having a devil and an angel on your shoulder

Jeesh,

You go away for a day or two and actually miss something that is worth reading. Figures...

Can't recall another team having both starting OT's undrafted.

Just a few random thoughts.

I think draft status or contracts are two of the most misused and unreliable metrics for measuring players' relative worth. This is where teams can get into trouble. Once players get into camp and start competing, everything else should take a backseat to football. Props to the Browns for understanding this.

I saw on the Watercooler of O&BR somebody said but provided no source, that back in OTAs of Minicamp Joe Thomas said something like the following, "Harrison will be a 10 year Left Tackle in this league." I searched for it on Google but came up empty. Anybody recall this or can find it? Please post it.

When I watch clips of Harrison's reps you do notice an inline TE outside of him on some plays so I think that will continue to happen. My question is whether that's because he needs the help while he develops game experience or is it part of Haley's play design. I don't know, just curious what others think.

It's hard to find OL today. So many college teams play schemes that just don't develop OL who can come in and play in the NFL on day 1 of their careers.

Harrison is a kid with elite traits. He has conducted himself, in the past, like a kid with a 3 cent head. However, he now says that he is past that, and if he does have his head on straight, he has the physical talent to be an outstanding LT. We'll see how he develops. If it doesn't work, then we move Bitonio back outside, and bring in Corbett or Watford at LG. We could also bring Robinson in at LT, if necessary.

I like the flexibility the team has on the OL. Our oldest players are 28. (Zeittler and Watford) Sometimes people make it sound like Tretter is this grizzled, old veteran, but he's only 27. We added Greg Robinson, and he's only 25. Do I wish that Joe Thomas was still here? Absofreakinlutely. However, that isn't the case, and anyone we put there is bound to be a downgrade. Based on the preseason, though, we have every right to expect that Bitonio could be a respectable LT, if needed ...... and have the ability to slide Corbett in at RG if we have to ..... but also the hope that Harrison might be the real deal. I think we also know that no matter who we play at LT, we're going to have to give them some help.

We'll see how things go. Fortunately, Taylor is a mobile QB, and if he has to move in the pocket, he can.

Go Browns!

So, this would be the one area that Dorsey would be open to criticism.

For all the moves, he did not really pro-actively address the LT situation after Joe Thomas retired. Attempted, probably, successful, no. So we have a long shot starting, and I am hoping for the best.

But let's give Harrison some credit for putting himself in the position to be in the conversation. Ideally, the Browns would have kept him on the shelf for the year to allow him to develop, but we will see some on the job training.

Good post

The thing with Tretter is that they asked him to gain some weight this year.

Why? Obviously they felt like he need it to gain an advantage over what the coaching staff determined to be a weakness.

Still he is a good option, but the position can certainly be improved upon.

yeah, we tried to get Solder ... and there was really nobody else worthy in FA or the draft.

Let's see how Harrison does ... and go from here

I’m really looking forward to seeing this cat tomorrow, along with us hopefully winning an opening fixture for the first time since records began.

With Bitonio having a total of three weeks at LT, I'm not sure how much he can help guide Harrison. The G position and LT position are miles apart. He may be able to help fill him in on his responsibilities to some extent, but when it comes to technique I don't see where the help can come from Bitonio.

I haven't seen it said and I just thought of it, but if Harrison is even a league average starter at left tackle, having him on an UDFA contract for four years is a ridiculously good value.

yeah, we would have he and Baker under extremely low contracts for their positions for 4-5 years

Bitonio was a LT in college. Additionally, Wylie is the one teaching "techniques." Where Joel can help Harrison is w/film study, understanding when and when to not pass guys off, communication between you and the guy beside you, etc.

There is a lot of cohesion needed for the members of the OL. Having a vet beside you is always a good thing, just as it was for Joel when Joe was playing beside him.

Do UDFA contracts last that long?

I'm not really worried about Harrison or Corbett long term when it comes to ability.

I am worried about Harrison's after work and late night decisions making it so his availability on game day is a concern.

I'm also worried that the coaching staff will get flip floppy short term and screw up the development of both guys.

https://overthecap.com/player/desmond-harrison/7281/

OTC has him under contract for three years at under $700k a season. He'll then become a RFA.

Three years and then a restricted free agent. That’s insanely good value if he’s even a little good.

Harrison has also said that Joe has helped him, too, so there's that.

I would think that if he pans out, they will rework his contract. They could pay him more and still have a bargain.

They'll either sign him to a long term deal in his third year, or tender him with a draft choice and have another year to negotiate a contract.

If he plays well enough to lock down that position and earn a second contract, he will get paid plenty well, and probably after season 2.

Yup. I believe the CBA does not allow teams to negotiate until the 4th year (3 accrued seasons). So even if we wanted to pay him we could not.

How great would it be if he panned out? Indy and GB lucked out with QBs - why can't we with a LT?

You are correct I misspoke at least from Dorsey personally having a say in keeping Tretter in GB. How I meant it was that with the new personnel department now in Cleveland they didn't exactly on record show a huge amount of love to keep him in GB especially with all their OL troubles of recent memory. Thank you for bringing this to my attention I don't try to throw out misinformation in my posts.

It would exactly be our luck if we "lucked" out and got the premier left tackle for the second time in two decades, while the rest of our organization continued to be a dumpster fire mortared with future draft picks.

I watched his video interview w Pat McManoman today and am not optimistic he will stay out of trouble. Just comes off as a kid with no sense. Really hope Browns have someone helping him or he can be our fool's gold Gordon at LT.

Bingo. It's the same reason the Seahawks got insane value out of Russell Wilson and the Cowboys are currently getting ridiculous production/salary out of Dak Prescott (who only counts $725K against the cap this year).

Hitting on UDFA and late rounders is such a boon.

I hope the kid shines. I expect a lot of rookie mistakes, just hope the QBs stay healthy.

I expect mistakes too, and I'm worried it's going to be extremely noticeable going from a first ballot hall of famer in Joe Thomas to a raw UDFA.

I hope Browns fans don't lose sight of the expected learning curve, and the incredible upside this kid has.

I'm a little nervous for the kid. It's a tough stretch. Casey Hayward (12 sacks in 2017) and Cam Jordan (13 sacks in 2017) to start the season. He'll also face the likes of Vic Beasley, JPP, Joey Bosa, Terrell Suggs, Leonard Williams, Jadeveon Clowney, Von Miller, Julius Peppers and Carlos Dunlap.

I wish him all the best. Talented kid, and I'm excited for what might be, but he's got his work cut out for him.

He sure does. This is the very definition of trial by fire.

Yikes!!

What are our overall thoughts?

From memory .... some good, some bad ..... looked like a rookie making his 1st start. (maybe just slightly better than that)