DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Desmond Harrison

Really? Damn, that sucks.

As I think most can see, the kid has the skill set but is quite raw. Much as I described. That makes it hard to predict the outcome here. As Browns fans we've seen all too often how potential is never reached. There is also a gamble in regards to character issues.

But I've also often spoke of the risk verses reward factor. With signing him as a UDFA there is almost zero risk with a possible VERY high reward. As Peen said so effectively, we're not replacing Joe Thomas. What we are doing is trying to find a legitimate LT. Those are two different things.

Watching Harrison's progress or lack there of will go a very long way in answering one of this teams glaring weaknesses going into next season. Like purchasing a diamond, the value is greatly determined on the clarity. And that clarity will only come by watching this kid play.

I think you let the kid play, and judge his play strictly based on performance. I think its important to not let his UDFA status sway any thoughts. I feel like often times we get caught up in, o well he wasn't a 1st round pick, so he must be trash.

j/c:

Desmond Harrison is 'no doubt' the Browns left tackle, Hue Jackson says

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s...art_river_index

Eo, in your opinion, does he have the feet to ride defenders blitzing? He looked quick and moved well (maybe too well and has the flags to prove it), But I thought a solid day's work.

Desmond Harrison: Breaking down the Browns rookie LT's first start

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/12/desmond-harrison-browns-lt-first-start/

Desmond Harrison was presented with the daunting task of filling Joe Thomas’s considerable shoes. Harrison got the surprise start at left tackle for the Cleveland Browns in Week 1. That’s quite a leap of faith in the undrafted rookie from West Georgia.

Harrison has had a generally negative set of reviews from most of the national media. Because some of the comments and statistics posted in the case against him struck us oddly, Lance Zierlein, Connor Rogers and myself sat down and watched the All-22 film of the Browns/Steelers game to focus on Harrison’s performance.

Zierlein is the man who writes all the draft notes and evaluations for NFL.com, including Harrison’s this past winter. He’s also the son of longtime NFL OL coach Larry Zierlein, who had a tour of duty with the Browns. Rogers is a lead NFL analyst for Bleacher Report and The Draft Network as well as the co-host of the Stick to Football Podcast.

Lance hosted and drove the conversation. Rather than going through the blow-by-blow, here’s the summary of what we saw in our viewing and open discussion.

Stats
I pegged Harrison on the hook for one clear sack, a play where his inside foot got caught on LG Joel Bitonio and he tripped and fell. There was another sack where his blocking mark was the second man in and finished off Tyrod Taylor, but the initial pressure and contact with the QB was not his responsibility.

He was indeed guilty of his two false starts. He was not flagged for holding, nor did we really see any egregious holds that went uncalled on his part.

We counted three pass plays where Harrison was clearly defeated for a QB hurry, not counting the one full sack. Two other instances that could appear to be a loss on Harrison’s part were judged by us to be more the fault of Taylor, and another was rookie RB Nick Chubb going to the wrong side of the formation to pick up his protection.

But the stats aren’t nearly as important as the process behind them. We all evaluated Harrison as if we were grading him as a prospect, looking at physical and mental traits and abilities.

Strengths
Footwork
We all loved how quick Harrison moves his feet and how comfortable he is in moving them. He’s a natural athlete with the footwork of a good basketball player, instinctively on his toes and quick to shift his weight in coordination with his body.

Stickiness as a blocker
He’s very advanced for a rookie, even ones highly drafted, at staying engaged with the defender once he establishes contact. His smooth feet and balance help here. So does his patience and not committing too early to his block.

Recovery
When he does get beat, Harrison already displays exceptional athletic ability and wherewithal to stay in the play. There was one rep late in the game where Stephon Tuitt initially won with a powerful inside shoulder dip, getting into Harrison’s chest and starting to drive through him. Harrison reset his anchor and kept two hands on and steered him to where Taylor had an escape route (which he did not use).

Assignment identification
This was huge. You’d never know this was a player who wasn’t named a starter at his position until very late in the week and had not practiced at all with the first team throughout the preseason. Pittsburgh uses a lot of rush gimmicks, things like T-E twists, overloads and loops. Harrison missed exactly one pickup. One. And it didn’t impact the play negatively. By way of comparison, right tackle Chris Hubbard — a former Steeler who practiced against the defense every day — had at least three.

Weaknesses
Slow to fire
Zierlein’s biggest criticism was Harrison’s tendency to be slow out of his stance. It’s something we saw an example of on nearly every drive. He’s often a half-beat behind his linemates in firing off. We all agreed that a lack of practice reps and poor continuity in inclement weather likely played a role here and it should get better quickly.

His hands are also slow to fire. Don’t mistake that for slow hands; they’re plenty quick. Harrison just isn’t as aggressive in punching with him as he needs to be.

Conditioning
It was plainly obvious he got tired as the game progressed, more so compared to his teammates. Remember, Harrison missed almost all of training camp with a toe injury and hadn’t run a full practice with the first-team offense until the middle of last week. Zierlein noted the difference in competition from college to pros here, as well as the jump in training techniques from a D-II school to the NFL. This is an issue which should resolve itself.

Physical strength
Harrison has added about 15 pounds from his college playing weight. Most of it is very good weight, but he still needs to add more core and lower-body strength. All of the instances where we saw Harrison bending at the waist came when he was attempting to get more anchor strength.

One-dimensional opponent
Nearly all of Harrison’s reps came against Bud Dupree. None of us were impressed with Dupree’s very limited repertoire or basic technique. Dupree tries to win over the outside shoulder almost exclusively, and he doesn’t use his hands or shoulders well at all to try and disengage. The first time Dupree even tried to go inside on Harrison he beat the rookie, catching him off-guard. He almost never went back to it. Better pass rushers will offer a much greater technical challenge.

Overall we all liked the potential, and the actual product wasn’t bad at all, certainly not given the circumstances of Harrison’s debut. We found zero reason to panic or remove him from the starting lineup despite some obvious areas for targeted improvement.

nice breakdown. Thanks for that read

Thanks. They saw a lot of the same things that I mentioned earlier in regards to his stance, punch, athleticism, and feet.

Awesome. Thanks for sharing.

I'm curious what the OL gurus have to say about Harrison's ability to correct his short-comings from that article. Are those short-comings a problem (like bad hands of a WR) or are they technique-type issues that shouldn't be a surprise coming from his college experience?

It's a big step up from Division 2 to the NFL. He has some advanced technique, and that part's actually the biggest surprise.

His feet are amazing for a rookie. It seems to me that this, and wingspan, are the 2 areas that are "impossible" to correct. He can add weight, and strength, and he can improve his technique, but he has some aspects that just can't be taught.

I think his issues are correctable. I think he possesses skills that cannot be taught.

Whether that translates into success or not is up to him.

He has traits that are not teachable. He will need to put in the work to get the most from his talent.

there's no doubt he seems way more athletic than other OL I see. He jumps off the screen when he moves and is pretty effortless when he slides and steers DEs away from the QB.

Let's hope he cleans up his mistakes.

After re-watching the Steelers game, Harrison isn't ready.

this kid is a "project". Don't get me wrong, he def has talent. I think he can be good, but it won't be this year. This kid needs a year to develop.

our troubles on the OL this past Sunday can be traced directly to Harrison. Its not his fault though, he was put into action way too soon by "no clue Hue"

We need to sit Harrison, put Bitnio back at LT, and slide Corbett back in at LG.

Bitino was able to hold his own in practice with Myles Garret, if he can block Garret, he can block anyone. Bitino is a viable starting quality LT right now.(he played and learned from the best for years by watching Thomas next to him) Harrison is not.

Harrison has the potential to be the better player, but not this year. We are holding back the team, and doing the team a disservice by continuing to march Harrison into the game.

Hue Jackson is wrong here, and he needs to swallow his pride and sit this young man down and let him develop, Corbett was much farther along then Harrison at LG, and Bitino is a better LT right now then Harrison is.

Put Bitino back at LT and put Corbett back at LG and most of our OL trouble we had against the Steelers goes away. I know what I saw...Harrison has talent, thats not the problem, the kid ins't mentally ready, he is a project. He is a guy that needs a year or so of coaching to reach his potential. We are doing this kid a disservice by putting him out there when he isn't ready.

I will never understand Hue Jackson and his pechant for trying to force project players into playing before their are ready. First Kizer, and now Harrison. He is going to work his way right out of a job here, and no one else is going to hire him after this and its his fault...all because he won't use any damn common sense...

only a complete twit plays Bitino and Corbett all preseason and camp(and they played well) only to change it a few days before week one putting a project at LT. It makes no sense. Its decisions like this that will lead to Jackson being fired.

"Hue Jackson is wrong here, and he needs to swallow his pride and sit this young man down and let him develop, Corbett was much farther along then Harrison at LG, and Bitonio is a better LT right now then Harrison is."

That would also mean Jeff Risdon, Lance Zierlein and Connor Rogers whom analyzed his performance watching the All-22 footage are also wrong. Not to mention Todd Haley, the O-line coach etc. whom I am sure recommended to Hue that Harrison start. Because I am sure that if the OL coach and the O coordinator thought the Bitonio/ Corbett combination was a better option than the Harrison/ Bitonio duo, Hue would have listened to that advice because lets face it Hue is on the hot seat his year.

I am no fan of Hue, but I don't think it was simply his decision. My feeling is that both Wiley and Haley are in on this decision.

I'd say after 1 game it is premature to say the kid isn't going to make it.

Is anyone else concerned about the play of Hubbard? He had 3 missed assignments and his man (Watt) had 4 sacks in the game.

Yes, they are wrong.

no coach worth their salt takes a kid that has been out since July with a toe injury (on the pup list) and shakes up his OL a few days before the reg season opener.

This kid missed most of training camp, never played any preseason games, and we tossed away all the chemistry on the line developed by Bitnio and Corbett who were playing very well together.

Now if Harrison had actually been in camp and played in the preseason, then yes, I could understand him playing if they felt good about him, but not like this...

No way Bellichik or any other winning coach shakes up his OL and throws in a guy who has had very little practice to play...it just doesn't make sense.

Harrison was the 2nd to last rated OT by PFF last week...the guy played worse then John St. Clair FFS, he was absolutaly awful, he didn't evne know where to line up half the time and was being told by Bitinio...kid wasn't ready lol

Only the Browns do this kinda stuff, have no patience at all, none...

the kid has all the talent needed, but you need more then that to work out in the NFL. We are doing this kid a disservice. He is going to be judged and graded on his play when he doesn't even relaly know whats even going on, doesn't even know where to line up most of the time. its not good.

Yeah, playing the best player at the position on your roster makes you wrong...... In your world.

I guess we shall see. One game is not enough time to make any determinations either way. If he has not improved significantly by mid-season then there is a problem. Besides I think it is better to get him in now and let him get better by doing and not watching. Whats the saying Steel sharpens steel? We are not going to the Superbowl this year whether it is Bitonio or Harrison at LT.

I am siding w/you on this little debate. Of course, there are going to be growing pains w/the guy. But, replacing Joe Thomas was always going to be an issue.

I think the kid struggled some w/getting out of his stance, but he showed very good footwork. Also, Watt's sacks were not all on Harrison. I actually only think one of them was, but I might be mistaken.

I also trust the coaching staff more than I trust KOB on this.

Thanks, Eo. Nothing natural about LT play at first. He seems to be using techniques he should, and is getting muscled at times. I thought he looked good overall; thanks for the watching points breakdown!

Correct, Harrison was only credited with one sack and three pressures. I thought that he settled in better in the second half.

It was a big step none the less. He needs and lacks experience ... but the ability is visually apparent imo ... if he puts in the work.

Thats fine, each can have their own views but I wannt you to consider something Vers:

Corbett worked his ARSE OFF in training camp, OTA, mini-camp, and Preaseason and learned a new position, and Bitiono worked his ARSE OFF in OTA, Mini-camps, and Preseason to learn to be a LT and Gell with a rookie and the rest of the offensive line. For what?

so Jackson can toss it all in the trash at a whims notice?

Regardless of Harrison talent he did NOT put in the work. I get that he was hurt, but that doesn't matter. Guys MUST earn their way in this league, and they do that by putting in the work, putting in the time, and climbing the ladder of the depth chart.

Jackson just bypassed all of that put in Harrison out the gate. I also don't believe for a second that Haley was ok with that change to his OL the week of the opener either. Jackson and Haley have already been at odds already.

Haley starting Gordon after Jackson said he wouldn't is proff of it.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2018/09/11/cleveland-browns-friction-hue-jackson-todd-haley/

It doesn't matter if Harrison was hurt and was going to be a starter, the guy has to put in the time, put in the practice reps, and EARN his spot and he didn't do that. Its more then him just not being ready(and mentally he isn't)

It also sends the message to Corbett and Bitinio that it doesn't matter how much practice or reps you miss, it doesn't matter how hard you work, Jackson will do whatever he wants.

the guy is a twit, I want him fired now more then ever, and I want Todd Haley as our HC because Haley is EXACTLY what the Browns need calling the shots here. He will make guys work to earn their way, he will instill discipline, not this lazy giving veterans breaks because they got soft tissue issues nonsense.

Hue Jackson is not a good coach. He may be the worst head coach ever in the history of the NFL.

I still say Joe Thomas retired because Hue Jackson was retained and he realized it would be more of the same BS...of course Thomas has enough class and dignity that he will never say that publicly, but he doesn't have too...he easily could play another 4 seasons at a high level, yet he retired after an arm injury...nope...he quit because we retained that twit Hue Jackson who won 1 game and two years and even posted an 0-16 record...its comical how bad of a coach he is, how anyone still supports him is beyond me.

you can clearly see the difference between Jackson and Haley, Haley comes from a winning background and a winning program and has that style that demands players to work their tails off to be good enough to win,Kurt Warner raved about how good of a coach Todd Haley is and how he pushes and chanlleges his players to be the best! Jackson gives guys breaks, tries to hard to be everyone friend, lacks control of his team, and also acts like a snitch, leaks to the media, and cries to Dee and Jimmy...hopefully by week 5 or 6 Dorsey will be allowed to show this clown the door...

We will start winning in abundance the day Haley is promoted to head coach.

Some guys are just so naturally talented it doesn't matter how hard you work over late summer, you just won't be a better player than them.

Every damn thread is going to become a "Fire Hue" thread.

It's really been quite interesting because Harrison just wasn't awful. There was plenty on tape, for the world to see, highlighting the talent that had the team willing to put him out there early. It isn't just from Browns fans, but some independent talking heads who make pretty solid evaluations in backing up while the kid did pretty well.

We're upset with a rookie for playing to a reasonable expectation of functionality. I don't know what people actually thought was going to happen. He played like a rookie, but a clearly talented rookie with a bright future.

I don't understand what mistake there is to admit. The kid played admirably and showed enough that we should feel comfortable with his chances for future improvement.

It always makes me cringe when a rookie gets throttled for his performance. Most rookies do struggle. It's only us who want to abandon them for it.

I have to correct you on this KOB. Harrison has been practicing since Aug 9th. He played 32 snaps against the Eagles, and he started at LT in our last pre season game. He played a total of 107 snaps in the pre season covering 3 games. Those are the real FACTS.

In the end I didn't think Harrison played all that poorly for his first NFL game.

Lets see how he is doing 3-4 games in. We also have to consider the kid is under the microscope. He is replacing Joe T, so everything he does is going to be compared to Joe.

I have news for you folks, Harrison isn't going to be as good as Joe. You need to lower your expectations and compare him to a normal rookie LT, not a guy who made being selected to pro-bowls look like a easy chore.

I would add that, just because he wasn't practicing with the 1's, doesn't mean he wasn't working as hard as Corbett and Bitonio were.

And as such, do not belong in most of these threads.

LOL

He didn't play all that poorly, and many of his negatives (but not all) will naturally work themselves out as the season progresses. Those include conditioning and quickly firing off the ball with the rest of the line are things that will naturally improve.

Other things won't. Technique and strength are things that require longer time and/or an offseason to really see improvement.

Before the game, I was bracing myself for the rookie to get his QB killed, and that didn't happen. From my perspective, there are more positive takeaways from his first game than there are negatives. He was "good enough" in his debut, and he will most assuredly get better because he has a lot of the natural/genetic talent/attributes.

For context, a lot of my perception of Harrison is biased by the understanding that our options for plugging someone in at LT were EXTREMELY limited this past offseason. Harrison, as far as we can see right now, could turn out to be far more than we had any right to hope for as far as addressing the LT position. I've officially gone from skeptical to intrigued.

Fair enough, but he still didn't have in the time other guys had. I am not a fan of just tossing a rookie project out there.

Well when your 1-31-1 what do you expect.

Honestly, I think the biggest problem with the "line" (I think TE plays in) is chemistry and communication. I don't think swapping in Corbett would help all that much. Instead of just trying to to get the LT-LG figured out we'd go to trouble with the LT-LG and LG-C "gaps". Corbett was an LT in college, he's not used to giving and having help on both sides. The focus is protecting that edge at LT. There's also the talk of things happening faster on the inside, so not only is he jumping up in competition, but the speed is also accelerated at the position. While LT is the "harder" position, in some ways it may be simpler. Zeitler missed a lot of time,so the RG-RT communication is a work in progress as well. For their first time in a real game together against an outstanding front in conditions they hadn't practiced much if at all in, they didn't do too bad.

Also, like Haley said, I think trust plays in. While he was referring to the WRs, I'm not sure Taylor trusts the OL yet, either. He seemed a little antsy at times and drifted out instead of stepping up(the pocket was pretty well collapsed at times).

Hopefully the first game jitters are gone and they will all settle in and get a rhythm.

j/c

The only "story" here is that we may have found a diamond in the rough.

The coaches have seen Harrison coming since the start of OTAs. They were just waiting for him to become "ready"...then he was dinged up at the start of TC. He reportedly practiced with the 111 in TC after the practices were closed to the public. I think that "delay" was just part of the injury circumstances and not some odd ploy to fool anyone.

The combo of Harrison/Bitonio performed better than the combo of Bitonio/Corbett. No coach/coaches would willy-nilly make a change like that if it wasn't warranted. Simple. Good for us...for a change.