DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Tyrod Taylor

Josh Gordon on Tyrod Taylor criticism: "That’s just how the nature or the politics of the game goes. It’s always going to fall on the head coach or the QB in some type of way but we all know that’s not the case. Everybody plays a part...It’s definitely not all on him."

https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/1039943520365301760

Taylor will be inside next game. No weather excuses this time. If he has a bad game against the Saints, do they start Baker against the Jets at home? I say they don't, but Jackson maybe trying to save his job at that point.

If TT plays as poorly as he did last week? the NYJ game then becomes must-win IMO

I think if TT poops the bed against the Saints Baker will be starting against the Jets.

Brown's fans never learn.

So if Taylor doesn't beat two of the best teams in the league, he should be benched after two games? God I hope Hue doesn't listen to you guys.

I think TT gets to try and redeem himself against the Saints. He HAS to look much better and not be the main reason we loose. He gets half the Jets game if he sinks it up in New Orleans. After that I think they will be forced to try and create a spark with Baker. That said.. ONLY the coaches really know who messed up the most on the offense. It was and usually is a large combination of errors . One play the OL lets us down. The next, two receivers run the same route or hit each other in a crossing route. Then the QB misses a wide open guy. I want to see a LOT more screens and quick slants on Sunday to get everyone involved.

MASSIVE MISTAKE. On a short week. No way

The only chance that Hue would bench Tyrod is if he put up a Nathan Peterman like performance (crazy INT's, lots of fumbles, etc). Based on Tyrods history, we know that won't happen. He protects the ball.

Hue will continue to start Tyrod. Can't blame him. I know everyone wants to see our brand new shiny 'toy,' myself included, but I'd defer that option for now. I don't think it would be the best option for the TEAM.

j/c:

Taylor isn't going to play a whole lot better than last week. He might have a game or two where he goes off, but last week is who Tyrod is. His completion percentage is higher, but holding the ball, bailing from the pocket, and inconsistent accuracy is who Taylor is.

I said it BEFORE we traded for him.

I said it when we traded for him.

I have said it several times since that time.

Most of you don't want to listen. And most of you don't want to listen to the thought that perhaps Baker isn't ready due to the offense he played in during college. Of course, you didn't want to listen last year either w/Kizer.

Have any of you considered that the coaches and FO guys know more about the players than you do? LOL.........I mean, y'all slay me.

Completely correct. Anybody who was expecting miracles from Tyrod was drinking the usual Browns pre-season Kool-Aid. I deeply respect the NFL career that Taylor has built for himself, given his very real, limited physical capabilities. But Tyrod is at the very best a mediocre NFL quarterback, likely a bit less than that in most games. Quite impressive though, for a 6th round pick. Off the field, I hold Tyrod Taylor in high regard for the way he conducts himself. Great guy.


OK, I'm not so sure about this one. Baker showed a lot of positive traits (and some rookie inconsistencies) in pre-season, with many of those traits very likely to carry over to regular season games. I don't understand how Baker hasn't yet adapted to the NFL game from the college game, but I am willing to listen to an explanation.

Now, does that mean I think Baker should start? Oh... hell no! Not with that sad offensive line that Dorsey and Huey put together this off season. That O-Line has to play together as a single unit for quite a few games before they - maybe - start to get respectable. Not good, just respectable. Hopefully.

I am sick and tired of watching the Browns destroy their own quarterbacks with crappy O-lines. This has been going on since Bernie. Baker doesn't need to be added to the list.

I hate to be so brutal about it, but Tyrod must be the scapegoat blood sacrifice upon the stone altar of Browns O-line stupidity, so that Baker someday has a fighting chance to reach his potential. (Don't cry for him kids - Tyrod gets $16 million this year and he can scramble away from that weak O-line if needs be.)

The Oline is nowhere near as bad as you say.

I think that Taylor gets the next 2 games, at the very least.

It would be hard to start Baker on a short week.

Its 100% time for Baker and there's no reason not to. It would be dumb to wait until we get to 0-4-1. I can see right now that Tyrod is tentative, hesitant, and indecisive. His throws leave a heck of a lot to be desired. Almost every intermediate to deep pass he under throws by almost 5 yards, causing the receiver to stop reach back resulting in an interception even if he has his man beat. Josh easily had his man beat that one specific time but Taylor under threw him severely. If not we win the game with a walk in touch down catch.

My hunch is Baker isn't ready. And while he's no Aaron Rodgers, TT will be better moving forward.

Not to be mean, but the Browns OL hasn't been the problem for the last couple of years. You might have just seen the # of sacks for the last couple of years, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Bad QB play (slow getting the ball out) has led to more sacks than OL play...just look at the last game as an example...Tyrod was holding the ball forever.

Fair enough. I will try and explain my reasoning.

First of all, I am not saying he isn't ready. I am suggesting that it's a very real possibility. Here are the reasons why:

1. Dorsey wants to win now. Why would he advocate not playing the best QB?

2. Hue NEEDS to win now or he will be fired. Why in God's name would he not want to play the qb who gives him the best opportunity to win?

3. Baker played in a gimmicky offense in college that did not prepare him for the NFL.

4. Baker did not take more than few snaps under center in college. It was obvious [for those of us who played/coached] football that he missed simple reads during preseason.

5. Baker was not asked to go through progressions in college. He struggled w/that in preseason.

6. Our OL is a work in progress and is giving up too many quick pressures. That's not cool for a rookie qb.

7. The dude faced vanilla defenses in preseason. That is a far cry from what he would face in real football. If he was confused by vanilla defenses......well.........????

Now.........let me add these two caveats.

1. I know that sounds like I am bad-mouthing Baker, but I'm not. He impressed me in preseason games because of his arm, movement in the pocket, confidence, leadership, etc. I like him way more now than I did before the draft. I think he has a real chance.

2. He might be ready? He might be able to do all of those things I mentioned. I don't know for sure. However, I do know football and am not just some fan boi talking crap. The odds are that he has some growing to do before he is ready. I don't want to ruin the dude.

Conclusion: I think this team is improving. I think we have a lot more talent than we have had in a long time. I think our FO and coaching staff are very good. I think they are both working together as opposed to the dysfunctional relationships of the past. I think Baker has a chance to be good. I don't think there is nary a chance that we make the playoffs this year. I see this year as one that shows improvement, but is nothing but a stepping stone towards next year. Baker starts next year and we make a true playoff run.

You may well be right - I am a Browns O-line pessimist by nature and I have high, perhaps too high, expectations of O-line excellence.

But I think we can agree that right now the Browns O-line is not good.

The next few games will reveal much more about the Browns O-line. There will be no sloppy weather excuses for anybody inside The Dome.

And yes, I know that Taylor holds on to the ball too long and creates his own sacks and pressures. We all get that. Meanwhile, how's that run blocking?

I think both of you guys are right about Taylor and the OL.

Taylor holds the ball too long and invites sacks. No doubt about it.

However, we gave up a ton of quick pressures where Taylor had no chance. That's on an OL that hasn't played together much.

I agree with your post there. My question is this: What is the best way for BM to overcome the short-comings that you listed?

Watch and learn? Or play? I honestly don't know.

I'm guessing its a combo of both. Watch and learn...let the O gel a bit...then play when 'ready'.

I think he either starts game 4 - if we suck up until then - or he sits until after the bye-week or until next year.

Well, we have the 2nd most rushing yards in the NFL, so I'd say the run blocking wasn't too bad. Even taking out Tyrod's yardage, I think we had 100 yards.

And a rookie RB that blew his pass-blocking assignment.

I really don't know, WSU. I see both sides of this. Throw a guy in too early and he develops bad habits because he can't process things quickly enough or leave a guy on the bench and how the hell does he learn to process all that information?

It's why I have always been so critical of drafting certain qbs. You just don't know if they can do it or not. I would never say they can't do it, but it's hard to spend such a high draft choice on a guy who hasn't done those types of things that are required in the NFL.

That's why I have only backed a few QBs over the years.

I realize that was probably an unsatisfactory answer, but it's what I believe. But, to try and further the discussion.............there is one thing that that might be applicable. I know nothing about it, but some folks have talked about the simulators. Is that the correct term?

I mean, that would be cool as hell if you could put the headset on a qb and have him make decisions based on the play call and then the pre-snap reads and even more importantly, where and when to throw the football based on post-snap reads.

That would be freaking awesome.

I just don't know if it exists in the way I am envisioning it. But man, what a great teaching tool that would be. Well, it would actually be more of a diagnostic tool than teaching, but I'm excited to learn more about it.

Yeah, I would not play Chubb when we are in passing situations.

I completely and totally agree with Point #6. The rest are reasonable and fair points. I advocate starting Tyrod over Baker primarily because of the O-line situation, but I do see other points to keep Baker on the bench.


Our difference here is one of nuance. Baker sometimes scanned the field, going through his progressions. At other times, he did not. He was inconsistent. But clearly, very clearly, he does have the innate ability to stand in the pocket and look over his options. As a rookie, he does not yet do so consistently on most snaps.

To me, that is rookie inconsistency. To you, it is struggling.


Would Baker struggle with this issue? Yes. But some rookie quarterbacks the past few years have done well despite similar struggles. By all accounts Baker is a fast learner. Why could he not do well just like his peers?


This is our biggest difference by far - we disagree on Hue Jackson quite a bit. Mind you, I am not on the knee-jerk, mindless Hue Jackson Hate Train that you seem to think anybody who dislikes Hue is on. I don't think everything he does is stupid and I don't nitpick every dumb little thing, screaming, "Look at what a disaster Hue is!"

But Versatile, you give way too much credit to Hue's quarterback assessment capabilities here. Let's look at Hue's recent quarterback evaluations and see how they turned out:

• Robert Griffen III: "The earth moved under my feet." - Hue Jackson. After flaming out due to (SHOCK!) injury and getting cut by the Browns, and a whole year out of football - nobody wanted him - RG3 is now the 3rd string quarterback for the Baltimore Ravens. That movement under Jackson's feet was a giant bowel movement.
• Josh McCown: A very fine veteran leader and a respectable backup quarterback. Hue failed to comprehend these useful qualities and the Browns cut McCown. McCown went on to perform OK as a starter the next season - far, far better than, say, Kizer ever did - and is now the Jets backup QB. Perfect fit. Who would have been a better starter for the Browns the past two seasons? Josh McCown, or Kizer and Tyrod?
• Cody Kessler: "Trust me." - Hue Jackson. After getting progressively worse under Jackson's tutelage, Kessler was cut and is now the backup quarterback for the Jaguars.
• Kevin Hogan: Played sort of OK, kinda, but then got worse under Jackson's tutelage. Cut by Browns. Cut by Redskins. Now 3rd string QB for Denver.
• Deshon Kizer: Highly praised by Jackson but then forced to learn a complex offense and throw downfield despite his accuracy problems. Got steadily and obviously worse the longer Jackson coached him throughout that horrible season.

I'm sorry, Versatile, but when you look at recent history I just don't see the evidence that Jackson knows how to correctly assess quarterback talent and make the best use of it.


Mostly oncur. Our only difference here is that I don't want to see him ruined behind an O-line that just isn't ready yet. You don't want to see Baker ruined because HE isn't ready yet, which I'll concede might also well be the case.


Yeah.... nah. Head coach is a big question mark to me, as well as the special teams coach. I am not as keen on Haley and Williams as most. The FO and coaching staff definitely are working together better than in past years. I'm not so sure the coaching staff is working well together. Too much lack of attention to detail and/or lack of communication. Other things bother me, but I am already way too far into tl;dr.

Okay. We disagree on quite a bit, but that's cool. I appreciate that you didn't resort to the BS that some other posters do.

I respect your opinion. We just disagree on some things. No big deal.

and a rookie LT that messed up a few times, and likely caused Bitonio some issues inside as well.

U and I agree on Mayfield needing to be READY before we make the permanent switch. Him watching from the sidelines and game film Monday is part of getting him ready.

This has been rolling around in my head for quite sometime. If we don't think he's READY, why would we have him as #2 and Stanton inactive when he's ONE PLAY AWAY.

Think about that.

We could've made Stanton #2 until Mayfield was deemed ready and then elevated him to #2.

We also talked this Spring in a thread about "How long a High 1st Round QB SITS".

I've NEVER liked Taylor because of his style of play and his inconsistent accuracy. He's got the weapons here. He BETTER stop leaving BIG PLAYS on the field in the next 2 games or we may just be justified in making the move with 10 days to plan for game 4.

And it WON'T BE A QB CONTROVERSY.

My buffalo friends despise Tyrod and they made it a point to remind me why this week. He simply will not and cannot throw it with decisiveness and accuracy when it counts.

Really? ... all my Jills loving friends MISSED HIM and with they NEVER GOT RID OF HIM ...

And guys ... I WARNED u about how hos season will go ... i said:

- he’ll have 2 or 3 games where he was HORRIBLE ... he got the first one out of the way last week ... he will ONLY PLAY THAT BAD ONCE OR TWICE MORE ALL YEAR ... don’t get me wrong .. he’s gonna hold the ball to long every game just not as many times as he did sunday .. he’s gonna have bouts of innacuracy the rest of the year he just won’t be innacurate as many times in a game ...

- he’s gonna have 2 or 3 games where he plays lights out and u guys are gonna be gushing over him ...

- then theres the other 10 games or so when at the end of the game u wonder if he played .. *L* ...

Those are his typical games ... he’s gonna hold it to long on on a few plays ... he’s gonna have a couple throws where he misses wide open guys ... he’ll also make a few nice passes and make some lays with is legs ..

He just happend to start out with HORRIBLE TT ....

You’ll see ...

I'm still peeved we handed off a 3rd rounder for him. But at least it wasn't a 2nd and the 3rd....

We all know what type of QB TT is. I say we stick with him and let BM sit and learn. Stick with the original plan. Let's not make the same mistakes we made in the past.

LOL...........Peterman threw for 24 yards last week. He has 5 picks in his two starts. The Bills are forced to start Allen long before he is ready. And your friends are talking smack to you????

Did he cost us the game, or was it the dropped passes? Just wondering

they clearly aren't in support of Peterman either. Obviously they'd prefer TT over him. Sorry again.

Man! You must be furious that we spent a 3rd pick on Kessler. You are probably outraged that we spent a first round pick on Peppers. You must be very angry that we spent 3rd round picks on S. Coleman and Nassib. You are probably irritated that we traded a 3rd rounder for Collins. And you must be infuriated that we spent a first round pick on C. Coleman.

Oh wait. Sashi was in charge then. It's all good.

Sorry for what?

I'm not "furious" using draft picks on college players entering the NFL. That's what they're to be used for.

But sending a 3rd rounder to another team for a veteran QB (for one season as a bridge) and you already know isn't worth a 3rd Rounder is, well....not a good use of draft capital.