|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,088
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,088 |
My point exactly,, lots of guys are saying we should do this with dawson or do that with Dawson,, yet nobody is offering up an alternative that would be an improvement,,
thing is, I'm all for moving on without Dawson,, if we cold actually find someone better...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
Quote:
You imply that my opinion doesn't mesh with the facts, but stats from two years ago, are not the facts of the current situation, although I know you would love them to be.
Stats from the last two years
2-2 from 1-19 yards 100 %
16-17 from 20-29 yards 94.1 %
18-21 from 30-39 yards 80.9 %
11-17 from 40-49 yards 65.3 %
1-1 from 50 + yards 100%
Totals 48-58 82.8 %
Those don't sound like bad numbers to me. Do yourself a favor and compare that to other NFL kickers who do most of their kicking in the north.
NFL.com has situational stat options that break it down fairly nicely (I know, stats are for losers, but if you look at the circumstances surrounding his misses, it gives a little clearer picture than simply saying "21/29 field goals"). Six of his eight misses last season came in the last six weeks of the season (November 19th and onward). Five of those six were in AFC North stadiums (Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Cincy...the other was in Tampa Bay). Seven of his eight misses on the year came in the first halves of games. Five of the eight misses came with at Cleveland trailing by at least 8 points, with three of those five with a deficit of at least 15.
What this shows to me is misses that largely did not directly effect game outcomes (by which I mean clutch situations, or misses where the team ultimately lost by a field goal or less...obviously any points left on the field affect the game in some way), the majority of which came at the end of a wholly disappointing and emotionally draining season. As was mentioned before as well, I believe he had a child with severe medical problems. He was also coming off of surgery. I see a guy who had a rough year, and that's about it. I'm not ready to throw him to the wolves yet. If he kicks this season in the 70% range in accuracy, and is in the bottom third of kickers in the league then it would probably be wise to start looking for a new kicker, but, as someone said earlier, I will give a guy who's performed at his level the benefit of the doubt until he demonstrates otherwise.
Last edited by Adam_P; 08/27/07 06:47 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,416
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,416 |
Nice Post Adam  I brought up kickers from the north for a reason. It's a lot harder to kick at 20 degrees wind and snow, than it is to kick in 70 degree weather with the sun shinning down on you. Everybody talkes about Vanderjerk, but his stats were a whole lot better when he was doing most of his kicking in a dome.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
What is it with this team and Phil Dawson? The guy has been pitiful for two plus years. I'm sick of people talking about his high percentage, most of that was achieved in his early years, and tha fact that the Browns constantly kicked field goals in the redzone due to not being able to punch it in.
I wish too god that they would pick up a new kicker if just to challenge Dawson. He claims he was in a slump last year, but it's been a couple years since he has been consistent.
I know a bunch of people will come on here and try to defend him as usual, but his miss last night is just picking up where he left off last year. Some have tried to blame different holders and othewr things, when the reality is he is getting older and his leg is weak.
There has got to be a FA kicker somewhere that can make kicks inside the 40. Phil has done good in the past and I give him credit for that, but he has become very inconsistant, and with a young team like we have now, we need consistency from the kicking game.
...my boy then went on to kick the two most insane field goals I've ever seen in my life.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"He claims he was in a slump last year, but it's been a couple years since he has been consistent."
Quote is from BT58.
But I was confused when I read this - just exactly what slump was he in this past season? When ever did Dawson claim he was in a slump? Did I miss something...unless this thread is from well before the season ended? So that Last year was 07??
the only year that I remotely considered Dawson in a slump and it came mostly in efforts of losing in pretty wide margins and his mind was elsewhere due to the near loss of one of his children. But it wasn't last year thats for sure:
6th in the NFL in kicking FGs:
30 out of 36 83%
10 for 10 in short range 20-29 yds.
12 for 14 in mid-range 30-39 yds.
5 for 6 in long mid-range 40-49 yds.
3 for 6 in long range 50+
Only 50+ yarders did he slip below his 83%.
Also a kicker with tougher conditions in the NFL I really don't think exists. Taking that into consideration he's about as good as it gets. What behooves me is how do posters put their credibility on the line by posting negatives on the guy.
I just don't get it. What is there not to like about him?
JMH?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,088
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,088 |
Quote:
"He claims he was in a slump last year, but it's been a couple years since he has been consistent."
I seem to remember a few years ago,, Dawson kinda had a slump but I also seem to remember he had an injury,, like knee, hip or groin... Not sure which it was...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,250
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,250 |
this post was from 2007... how in the world did it come back to life?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
Wow!! How the heck did this come back? Dawson proved me wrong after this and the crow was mighty tastee  Please someone delete this before GM and Daman start pursecuting me agian 
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
Quote:
Also a kicker with tougher conditions in the NFL I really don't think exists. Taking that into consideration he's about as good as it gets. What behooves me is how do posters put their credibility on the line by posting negatives on the guy.
I just don't get it. What is there not to like about him?
Easy there Eo, this was written at a time when Dawson was struggling with something. He had missed some crucial kicks the previous season and had made my **** list, if you know what I mean.
Phil has proven to be a very valuable piece of this organization, and made a fool out of me in the process.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,088
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,088 |
Quote:
this post was from 2007... how in the world did it come back to life?
It's one of lifes mysteries that may never be solved...
Kinda looks as if Phildawsonrocks brought it back to life... Why do I not find that surprising....
Last edited by Damanshot; 02/15/09 04:47 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,088
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,088 |
Quote:
Easy there Eo, this was written at a time when Dawson was struggling with something. He had missed some crucial kicks the previous season and had made my **** list, if you know what I mean.
if this little look back teaches anything, it teaches us that sometimes , looking ONLY at the here and now never gives the true picture.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276 |
Quote:
how do posters put their credibility on the line by posting negatives on the guy.
I just don't get it. What is there not to like about him?
Amen!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
Somebody should bring back a Ben Gay thread. Doesn't that sound like fun?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
Quote:
if this little look back teaches anything, it teaches us that sometimes , looking ONLY at the here and now never gives the true picture.....
Come on Daman, didn't you scold me enough back then 
In honesty, my let down feelings took over any rational thought, so your statement I can live with.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,445 |
Is this guy serious???  Whoops, darn just realized this was from 07 like the rest of you.
Last edited by tastybrownies; 02/15/09 11:34 PM.
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974 |
Quote:
Quote is from BT58.
I just don't get it. What is there not to like about him?
JMH?
I don't think there's anybody around here that doesn't like the guy. good kicker, great team mate. plus, he can beat a blizzard with one swing of his mighty foot.
if this gets dragged up, we may as well drag up some of the old garcia threads. Man, those where fun. Green vs. suggs where a blast also.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,416
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,416 |
Quote:
Please someone delete this before GM and Daman start pursecuting me agian
I have my "cat of nine tails" all ready to go, and I just sanded down the whip
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Good thing, because even though it doesn't appear as if Phil is on his **** list anymore, whatever a **** list is. I wonder what a **** list could be? Hmmmmm.....what kind of list is a **** list????
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,830
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,830 |
4 star list.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"Easy there Eo, this was written at a time when Dawson was struggling with something."
Well the first words out of my mouth were about being confused
I did hint at something about this being an older thread...but in my wildest dreams I didn't think 2 years old 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,088
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,088 |
Quote:
Come on Daman, didn't you scold me enough back then
Probably!
Quote:
In honesty, my let down feelings took over any rational thought, so your statement I can live with.
We've all done it. We've all seen a player stumble and then we develop a bad opinion. It happens.. as long as you have it right now, that's all that matters
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,124
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,124 |
Quote:
Phil has proven to be a very valuable piece of this organization, and made a fool out of me in the process.
class move, BT. I'd like to see a bit more of this on these threads
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I'm not an Ohio State homer. At all. Whatever the opposite of an Ohio State homer is I am almost that. But anyway, what if we can get Mike Nugent (an unrestricted free agent) for a reasonable price. He is 8 years younger than Dawson and could come cheaper. Especially since Dawson asked for a new contract earlier this year. Anyway, this might work. Especially with the Mangini/Jets connection.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
Glad you could join the fun
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
Quote:
Good thing, because even though it doesn't appear as if Phil is on his **** list anymore, whatever a **** list is. I wonder what a **** list could be? Hmmmmm.....what kind of list is a **** list????
Can I say "poop"?
I can't believe this thing is still getting replies, man are we starved for some new topics or what.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
But anyway, what if we can get Mike Nugent (an unrestricted free agent) for a reasonable price.
Then we would have a downgrade at the kicker position.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
Quote:
But anyway, what if we can get Mike Nugent (an unrestricted free agent) for a reasonable price. He is 8 years younger than Dawson and could come cheaper. Especially since Dawson asked for a new contract earlier this year.
Nugent truely is terrible. I think Phil is getting better, at least he seems to always do something impressive even for as many years as he's been kicking.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
I got on Phil Dawson for a little while, but then the dude made 2 of the greatest kicks I have ever seen and probably will ever see in my life.
I think that bumps him up just a tad.
Last edited by Dawgpound017; 02/16/09 09:36 PM.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,416
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,416 |
Quote:
Glad you could join the fun
Wouldn't miss it for the world bro 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Phil Dawson?
|
|
