DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 42 Raiders 45 Postgame thoughts

There is no tape we have seen everything there is to see.

An 8 pt lead with like a minute and a half on your own 18. That is like a no-brainer punt. Hue has made some stupid decisions in his career, but this wasn't one of them. The odds of a win were probably at 95% at that point.

No one is arguing that we shouldn't have punted. What is annoying is that he said it was because he felt we had gone to the well enough times, luck-wise, and that any more "aggressiveness" would be pushing our luck. Luck has nothing to do with anything. Its about execution. It was a dumb, lazy answer in an attempt to blow off a legitimate question. Its a legitimate question because the odds of converting on 4th-and-inches are very high; at, or near 90%. That's a 9 times out of 10 chance to ice the game right then and there, but Hue presents it as if we would be pushing the envelope with the gods of football.

Yep.

They keep saying this, but they haven't shown why they called it. If it's "indisputable", then release the tape. Why hide?

There are no tapes. They're trying to say they used different angles and the replay flunky had some magic formula for knowing exactly where the ball was when the elbow went down.

By definition of the rule there is no avenue or precedent for overturning the call on the field. Indisputable evidence? Not with the most creative of imaginations.

I'm hard-pressed to not claim bias... seems like the only possible way to overturn that call.

The entire game was a pathetic display of officiating. I really don't understand how things have come to this point, it looks like pure incompetence at times. It's nice that the NFL's only response to this yearly crapshow is introducing more and more nuances to already ridiculous rules that are nearly impossible to officiate fairly. Go Team!

I planned to rewatch the game today and add some intellect here. Can't do it yet - still too angry. Watched it at a friends with way too many interruptions and comments from the peanut gallery.

Things that come to mind...

Going for two is fine with me. If you whiff on the first you can usually make good the second time around, that's exactly what we did Sunday. I thought late in the 4th we should go for two to move to 43 - 34. I'm cool with the decision though. It's all gut instinct at that point. It's a tough decision to risk a scenario where you will not lose in regulation. It was a good time to think about though... especially with the officiating. A chance to assure victory without leaving the game in the hands of your defense... and these guys:

R 66 Walt Anderson 23 Texas - college officiating coordinator, retired dentist†
U 124 Carl Paganelli 19 Michigan State - retired federal probation officer†
DJ 68 Tom Stephan 20 Pittsburg State - president and CEO
LJ 18 Byron Boston 24 Austin - tax consultant
FJ 43 Terry Brown 13 Tennessee - probation supervisor
SJ 15 Rick Patterson 23 Wofford - banker
BJ 27 Lee Dyer 16 Tennessee-Chattanooga - sales manager
Replay official: Billy Smith
Replay assistant: Andrew Lambert

Sorry, I feel like we should start keeping track.


One other thing I'm always cool with is punting from your own 18... And that closes the book on the Hue scapegoating for this game, unless I've missed something. I think he's done a solid job through the first quarter of the season, he's improved about as much as you can expect any player to... what more do you want?

I am "burnt up" knowing this team could easily be 4-0. That's what makes this last debacle so hard to swallow... the Browns hung 42 on the board and lost. If you would have promised me 42 last Wednesday I may have painted my car brown and orange by Sunday. Can't make this stuff up folks.

Baker made some typical rookie mistakes but still shows us so many things that give us real hope. It's not a mirage... there is a good chance we got it right this time.

Nick Chubb is a one cut back who needs a big enough window to exploit a defense... he has way more top end speed than I expected.

I saw RBs make hay in the infield. Both of Chubb's runs started there and he seemed bent on staying in the dirt as long as possible. Maybe because of the terrible footing on the rest of the field. Funny, I was worried about the "atmosphere" and "the black hole", when the biggest worry was the skating rink with intermittent sand traps. Wow.

Derek Carr throws short range darts, always has. Not sure how we let him gash our defense by playing to his greatest strength.

Cannot have all these bums dropping easy passes. Calloway is about a week away from a well-placed free agent taking his targets.

Our Special Teams are truly special. I expect to see steady improvement, no more excuses for going backwards without some heads beginning to roll. These guys ain't cuttin' it. Can't cover, can't block, hit people in the back like they're possessed by some strange outside force.

Another Dawg and I (sorry, forgot who) have been proponents of the official fair catch approach to punt returns... for weeks now. Let's make this happen. As Swish said - a traffic cone could be trained to do a better job. #StartTheCone

With all of this misery I'm still excited (as all get out) to see the Birds come to Cleveland and get their wings clipped. If you're in the stadium with me and here or start the chant, the most effective words are:

"These Refs Suck! These Refs Suck!"

They owe us one, the Gods owe us one... let's get 'er done.

I wonder if this game was in Cleveland if they would have reversed the call?

But you might end up counting on a spot and the refs understanding how the chains work.

Hmmm....


The Raiders were outscored 37-3 in the 4th. We gave up 21 to them. We were gassed. Carr gets the ball out amazingly fast and we had no answer. We continued to blitz and obviously Carr thrived and we continued to blitz.

Raiders scored no more than 20 in any game this season, but they hang 45 on us sunday.

Our turnovers didn't help and I commented on Baker in another post.

Landry had a poor game.

Cf is correct and we just need to play better. All around.

Hue is not innocent in this loss. Although I'm happy we finally scored 40+ points. I'd rather win 3-0 than lose 42-45. Hue still needs more talent.

Disappointing ending. However, more games to come and the future looks bright.

Consider the alternative.

If we go for it and don't get it... where are we then?

Also, the int very late by Baker was a poor decision. I almost feel like the ball was to go to Duke but Baker wanted the homerun. Callaway put his arms up to suggest why you throwing it to me?

We probably won't win the super bowl this year, but this is why we are better with him on the field. He'll learn.

Hue should be fired before monday!

j/c

Post game thought:

How many times do we have to win this game to actually get a W?

At least one more than we did on Sunday ..... and maybe 3 or 4 times .... until they ran out of time in trying to steal the game from us.

On our 1st possession in OT, I half expected them to call a Safety on us ..... on 1st and 10 from our own 40.

As a tweet said that I saw, when you have to start piecing together parts of different video feeds on some sort of time lapse.. it's hard to say that was "irrefutable"..

Sounds like a reach. Refs call the game. Hated it came down to zebras selective seeing when it was all on the line.

Without a doubt we got out coached and that's on Hue, you had a play late in the fourth quarter and one in OT where you need a few yards to get into FG range and you call plays that are being run 20 and 25 yards down the field. The drops this past week were absurd Landry can't catch 4 out of ten targets, Callaway did ok the slip on the pick 6 hurt, but game management was horrible.

I'm critical of Hue, but I can't put the blame on him for the loss. Not many teams are required to win a game on multiple occasions to actually get the win.

I said it after the Saints game and it holds true today. If I were Hue, I'd tell Haley and GW that they are on their own for now and I'd anoint myself Special Teams Coordinator for the time being.

Then I'd tell GW I'll be assistant DC to help him scheme for the loss of Mitchell.

You call plays with different route depths, sometimes folks go deep to open up the guy underneath.. the fact that Baker CHOSE to try to force it to the deep guy probably speaks more to his inexperience than it does to the play call itself.

Plus, on the one at the end of regulation, we had 2 WRs running within a couple yards of each other.. one of them ran the wrong route.. again, part of Mayfields inexperience but that's something he should pick up on and not throw into that.

Pretty much the same place we ended up?

Supposedly this is a new thing they're doing (stitching together different angles).

Gee, isn't that convenient.

I didn't realize that Hue was calling the offensive plays. I thought Haley was. Thanks for the information.

Baker wants Callaway to be his Dede Westbrook. Callaway most definitely has the speed. Unfortunately, none of his receivers have the hands that he had in college. I find that incredible being these are professional athletes.

Maybe the Brown's receivers just need time to adjust to his velocity and spin which was something that his receivers in college had more time to do.

Im feeling bad for the kid. He's a Baller, he's always been a winner and Im sure most of his teammates also were in college but Im just not sure that this coaching staff knows how to win. I question some of the utterly absurd play calling and coaching. I also question Haslam the owner. Hence this article

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/8/29/1...ak-jimmy-haslam

Its almost like he's has found a Coach that will follow his orders and that order is to lose. I dont know if he's playing for draft picks or manipulating the team as a writeoff for his other Corporation.

Im confused because it seems that all the pieces (players) are there to be at least a semi-successful franchise. But the ineptness of the coaching staff seems to hold them back.

Im just a poor fan hoping for the joy that comes when my team wins.... The concepts of high finance and tax liabilities is beyond my education.

Opinion though is free and I have plenty of that...but it would be nice to have a few wins to go along with it.

Over the years, I have always loved the objectivity of posters who only became fans of our team due to one single player.

There might be plenty of reason to question Haslam as an owner. Plenty.

But the article is plain weird and kind of says nothing - while containing a lot of words.

Also - suggesting Haslam has employed Hue with the intent to lose is also strange. The team - which ever way you look at it, in any light and in any situation is worth more when it's a winning organization. Period.

Dude. Ten days ago you were jacked and calling this the "beginning of a new era". One loss later our coaching staff sucks and our owner is a racist using an NFL franchise as a tax write-off? Not sure where you found that article but that was one of the most pathetic sports takes I've read in a long time. You've been here for a month and you want Baker losing a game to be Jimmy Haslam's fault? Wow.

ICYMI Baker had four turnovers in the loss. Is that your version of a coach intentionally losing?

Yes, this is a young team learning to win. Don't play the "poor Baker is such a winner" act - he's part of the young team.

Haven't been any coaches holding players back... so far it's been all players holding players back.

"Its the beginning of a new Era" lol...no flip flops allowed huh, I guess that doesnt count for the several hundred Ive read this past month. Its too bad I cant transfer 10K posts from other boards here then I could be as brilliant and legitimate as some of you are. I lived in Lakewood in the mid 80's after leaving the service and marrying my first wife. But my parents were Okies and that brought me back home 20 years ago after my divorce. So Ive been a longtime Browns fan and that was as much the fault of my in-laws as it was the "one player" which by the way was Bernie Kosar not Baker Mayfield. But I wont deny that watching Baker these past years here in Oklahoma didnt get me excited for the future prospects of the Browns again. I literally hated Johnny Football and even when he was drafted my loyalty didnt waiver and I had high hopes then also regardless of how much I detested the Man.

As for Baker and his turnovers. I didnt blame the coaches, that's on him and his teammates. Those came about from poor "team" execution. Not the plays called by Hue or the refs decisions though as a whole it may have contributed to the final outcome. But these last few years are a mystery..where do you put the blame?

I put nothing past Jimmy Haslam. He is about power and profit and even the Cleveland Browns make profit and are in the top 50 of most valuable teams in US sports. But he is the Puppet Master. His backroom deals and outright scams along with his ability to come out on top smelling like a rose when everyone around him is standing in crap is almost legendary. And this goes back long before he was owner of the Browns. Ask any Democrat in Tennessee about the Haslam family. So its only reasonable to be somewhat suspect over what appears to some as questionable and unexplainable actions by someone who's reputation is equally suspect.

I have as much right to be opinionated about my team as any of you. And Im still "jacked" about the future of this team, I desperately want them to succeed. But some things just dont add up...

Gee ... someone over reacted ... that never happens around here ...

Just the democrats, huh. lol

I'm not questioning your "fandom". It's all good bro. Just saying, postgame thread has nothing to do with Haslam... nor does one game on the west coast, on a screwed up field... with screwed up officials, a rookie QB and a scoreboard going off like a slot machine.

It is what it is and nothing more. It gets tiresome reading about all the travails of the past - coaching, ownership, etc... when analyzing the events of the present. Not trying to pick on you, it's everywhere you look in this joint.

Go Browns!

I'm late here, but some thoughts outside of the questionable calls from the refs:

Offense:
- Why not get Landry more opportunities in the 2nd half/ 4th quarter?
- Chubb is my guy. He did well. However, I don't understand why Hyde isn't getting any luv? He runs very well, and always get the extra yard, which is different from past HBs (see Crowell).
- I expect Baker to make mistakes. He has to get the ball out just a little quicker.
- Calloway had a disappointing game. Outside of the 1 play he made, the rest was mehhh. I do hope they continue to push him, as I think he is close to 'getting it.'

Defense:
- For his size, Ward can freaking hit!
- We have to find a #2 CB, as Gaines is horrible in coverage.
- I hated Gregg Williams play calling in the 4th quarter, even more so at the end of the game. The obvious blitzing when a team is in WR trips? That's easy pickens! Sending corner blitzes on the not blind side so a QB can easily see it? I've said this time and time again, I hate playing 1 safety high. Good QBs will take the shot at 1 on 1 coverage all the time.

You are right...Haslam really has nothing to do with this thread. Im as passionate about this team as anyone and I get a little carried away with my rants when Im frustrated and dont understand why we can have something so good and still stink the place up. The "Democrat comment" was just a stab at Haslam's brother who is and really detested by the lower to middle income families of Tennessee of which the majority is Democrat. I myself am registered Republican though I tend to vote for the candidate's views and platform rather than 100% dedicated party loyalty. And I was out of line for saying that also as it has nothing to do with Browns football or the postgame thread.

I'll try to stay on topic in the future. But Im still really pissed off that we lost that game Sunday.



GO BROWNS!!!!!!!!!!!!

j/c

Hue not going for 2 after the last TD was dumbfounding. There is ZERO risk in going for 2 there.

The TD put us up by 7, 41-34.
- If you kick the PAT, we're up by 8 and it's a one-possession game. Who cares if they also "have to convert the 2 pt try"? Teams convert 2-pt tries more than 50% of the time so it's not some great hurdle they need to cross.
- If you go for 2 and DON'T make it, we're up by 7 and it's a one possession game. If Oakland scores, they'll kick the PAT to tie it.
- If you go for 2 and make it, it's now 43-34 and it's a 2 possession game and the entire game changes.

NO RISK and high reward. Just a terrible decision to not even try, especially after they converted 2/3 2-pt tries already.

I've gone back and forth on this one - I don't fault the decision. You say NO RISK, but the no risk proposition is you won't lose. You're 100% correct, if we're up by 7 the Raiders would kick for the tie... no way they go for two and a win at home when they have the momentum.

On the other side of the coin - you DOUBLE your chances of going to OT if the opponent scores. If they need a PA for the tie there is 95% probability (unless you're the Browns kicker)... if you need two for the tie, the probability drops to 48%

However, the fact can't be ignored, if you convert the two, you WIN THE GAME. Well, most teams would win the game. Sometimes the zebras are wearing the same color as the opponent, in those games - anything can happen.

j/c:

All the focus on Hue's decisions and no one is commenting on the offense turning the ball over 4 times. I guess turning the ball over doesn't factor into the loss.

This is spot on. I like what I see from Chubb as a runner, though I certainly do not expect a 30 yard average from him. But he needs to work on his blocking, in a big way.

I like the way Hyde runs. When he gets hit, he often goes forward and gets another yard or two. Brings a good mentality to the team, with Landry and Baker.