DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Tip of my hat to Mr. Jackson ...

I have NO PROOF of what I said ... LIKE I SAID IN MY POST in my lead sentence ...

I have no proof, its my gut ... not sure how much clearer i could have been ...

No probs with u disagreeing ... I LIKE IT when folks disagree with me and give me the REASONS WHY like u always do .. I LEARN that way .... I’ve never learned a thing from someone patting me on the back and telling me good job ... i’m Always asking for constructive criticism in everything i do in life ....

I NEVER mentioned scheme ... EVER ... as usual your lumping me in where i don’t belong ...

I was upset cause our SPECIAL TEAMS WERE AS BAD AS I’D EVER SEEN ... EVER ... i could care less about SCHEME when it came to COMMITING A PENALTY ON EVERY SINGLE PUNT AND KICK OFF ... that has nuttin to do with scheme .... ZERO ... thats all about DISCIPLINE and lack of a brain ....

MG GOT ROASTED FOR HIS BLOCK IN THE BACK AGAINST PIT .. ooopss ... sorry about the caps ... sorry i sound upset ... its cause i am ... still have NO CLUE why u gained respect for me for this thread .. thats BS ... i’ve Been VERY FAIR to Hue and preaching the same thing since it was clear he was staying ... CLOSEST i ever came to saying he should be fired was during the bye week last year when i said THEY BOTH SHOULD GO but if only one has to it needs to be sashi ... THATS IT ...

Yet u keep questioning my motives ... that’s CRAP ... dang ... guess i was mad ... *L* ...

Anyhow ... something changed ... I THINK it was Hue taking over, getting more involved ... whatever ... I THINK Hue had a major hand it .... i can see why u would question it and have no probs understanding your point of view and admit theres a 49% chance your right ...

BOTTOM LINE BRO ... they improved ... for one week anyhow ...

The flip side of this vers .. if they didnt show some signs of improvement and nothing changed personal wise ... I’D OF PUT IT 100% ON HUE ... he’s the HC and that units play was well below acceptable ... its his team .. he needed to do something ..

Just thought of that ... maybe it plays into why i believe he “took over” ...

Lets just hope the improvement continues and wasn’t a one week thing ....

LETS GOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo ......

My post wasn't really meant to harp on you or dog you. Just to show a different take. You seem to base your opinion on a conclusion you've drawn with no point of facts with which to back them up with. You "believe" that Dorsey was forced to keep Hue. And it's fine to have a belief but there's nothing factual that you can show to back that up.

On the other hand, I have a factual statement from Dorsey. Not only that, he backed that statement up by going out and signing FA's and drafting strong players to accomplish what he said needed to be done.

The results of that are obvious. Those obvious results are when Hue is given the talent to work with, he produces good results. We have an O in their first season under the Haley system. A young team that needs some experience under their belts. A second year defense under Williams playing extremely well the the exception of one let down in the Raiders game.

I'm just not sure how much more evidence one needs to understand that the lack of talent, no, the complete tear down of this team was far more responsible for what we've seen here over the past two years than anything having to do with Hue.

It seems Haslam knew it, Dorsey knew it and now we can all see the overwhelming evidence of it.

I guess my only real problem is from your opinion of him in the past. To expect a driver to win a NASCAR race with a Volkswagon Beetle always seemed like a strange type of logic to me.

It wasnt just about talent. He hired his coaching staff and I believe every single one is now gone except for Al Saunders.

Hue wasnt a good game manager as he focused on offense and yet without WR talent and QB talent he devised plans that threw the ball all over the field. This was a fail.

His clock managment was poor.

He was way to buddy buddy with the press especially with his bud Mike Silver.

Bottom line, Hue was a bad HC when he came here no matter what the talent level was. There is no way in hell any coach should go 1-31 in 2 years.

Throughout all of these fails, the team played hard.

Hue fired his DC and fired himself from OC. He stayed away from the press games. He hired Williams and now Haley. He has shown much improved game management skills. He isnt leaving the game with 3 timeouts or wasting them on hopeless challenges.

The players througout it all believe in Hue and they see him as one of them. that is hard. They want to win for the guy. Atleast we have a coach that has learned and adapted and we havent just trained him for somewhere else.

Its funny but I thought the best job of coaching Hue did since he has been here was in our first 2 losses. Despite Taylor being horrid and special teams disaster, they kept fighting. We were in it, Should have won it.

Now with Baker leading the O and greg williams keeping our D rolling, i feel that we can win every game on our schedule. We wont but we have a shot to win each and every one. AS i said earlier, this however is the danger zone for Hue. Great expectations and disappointment is a coach killer. I hope Hue stays I dont want to lose this coaching staff.

So he’s built himself a very good staff with two ex HC’s running the O and D ... this after not gettin this people in year 1 ... that happens quite a bit bro ... u have to hire from whats available ... then u start to have choices ...

Bottom line is he built himself a good staff ...

He was struggling as HC/OC and made the changes necessary ... and secured a very good O-mind nd an ex HC to run the O along with a QB coach that has a great rep and is an outstanding offensive mind in his own right ...

So your saying he recognized his flaws and went out and eliminated at least that HUGE ONE ...

Thats good stuff .. right ... ...

LETS GOOOOOOoooooooooo ....

If your HC can learn from his mistakes then it is worth it to keep him around. Hue is definitely improving and he has full support of the team which is HUGE.

The same old crap about a VW beetle or a mule in the derby.


Hue had the talent to win last year, and as i said early on, he had the talent to win this year. Lucky for him TT went downn early.



It's not like Hue decided to play him.



call




But it's worked out



Go Browns

The most tiresome thing is your obvious bias. Your hate got in the way of logical thinking. You, and others who bashed Hue unmercifully, are looking bad.

What QB that played for us last year is making any difference for his new team this year?

How many of the players we cut from last year's team are still in the NFL? How many are starting for another team?

S. Coleman?
C Coleman?
Nassib?
Orchard?
Kizer?
Kessler?
Hogan?
Dayes?
Britt?
K Williams?
Coates?
Telfer?
Leslie?
Vitale?
J taylor?
Meder? (much as I liked him as a rotation guy)
Shelton?


Brantley and Crowell might be the 2 making the biggest difference for their new teams.

We had some talent, but we had no QB. It is damn hard to win in the NFL without a QB. We had little in the secondary last year. No one can argue that we had a legitimate chance to win much last year. We had no QB.

I remember when last year started. I wasn't all that optimistic based on the team we had.I said 4 games, at the most. (and I also seem to recall saying that we might/probably not make that mark)

A team missing talent at key positions doesn't win in the NFL. Why did Dorsey attack this roster with major overhauls at important positions? Because this roster was simply not good enough to win last year. Dorsey completely overhauled the QB spot, and the secondary. (where only Peppers, Kindred and Boddy-Calhoun remain, and Boddy-Calhoun seems to be phasing out)

The NFL is a passing league, and if you can neither pass, nor stop the pass, you don't win.

Kizer was a lost cause at QB. You cannot turn the ball over 80 times, or however many times he did, especially in the red zone. You cannot win when your own secondary cannot get turnovers, especially when you have holes on the team.

Would winning one or 2 games last year have changed a thing? If so, how? The draft would not have changed. The need for major changes would not have changed. How would it have mattered?

Pretty sure Kizer didnt turn over the ball 80 times lmao.

It only felt that way.

It felt like more.

on the flip side... the ability to perform better in the second half shows that the coaches ( Hue included) are able to absorb information and make the changes needed to be successful... that's indicative of good coaches... IMO

Yet once Dorsey brought in the talent, the difference on the field is obvious.

It's kind of funny. Dorsey was in K.C.

He drafted Mahomes. The plan was to sit him for the year. He came to Cleveland. Drafted Mayfield. The plan was to sit him for the year.

Yeah, it was Hue's decision. lmao

I really don't appreciate being called out for a lack of an opinion when if I post said opinion it will be met with insults and criticism from biased posters such as yourself and a few others. But since you called me out for "avoiding the topic..."

I've read this board plenty to know that Peen is actually one of the least biased posters here. It's unfortunate and a shame he's been called out for being biased simply because his opinion doesn't match the Pro-Hue opinion (and I'm not saying peen is anti-Hue)...

I would actually side with him. I think there's nothing wrong with having questions about a HC who went 1-31 in 2 seasons. It's unprecedented no matter the talent or lack of... We had less talent in '99 and won 2 games.

I don't think there's any reason why we couldn't have won more games than ONE the past 2 seasons. I think there's been obvious mistakes by the coaching staff the past two seasons and I fail to see why people choose to ignore them. NO ONE here that I've read has said we should have been 8-8 or won 10 games or how ever many and made the playoffs... that seems to be the assumption.

If we had won say 2 games in Hue's first year and 3 games last year, we wouldn't even be here talking about this. This is the point that many choose to ignore.

I think the biased opinion is that of the Pro-Hue's. I haven't seen an ounce of criticism about him from these posters since he was retained when Dorsey arrived. If he calls an ill-timed timeout it's because he wants to ensure we score. There's always some brilliant excuse why Hue does what he does. However, I think it was incredibly stupid when he challenged the spot early in the game like he did with the field position the Ravens had... if this was inside our 30 or something, then sure, different story... but that was awful and I can't see 90% of the coaches making that challenge. If you think that was a great call, then it just plays to your bias.

I believe it takes some discipline to look at things objectively. And I don't think this thing is as easy as Hue didn't have talent that's why he lost all 16 games. He definitely had a hand in this and to disregard the notion that he didn't is short-sighted in my view.

I believe Hue has made enough mistakes the previous 2 seasons to warrant a firing. Well, he beat the odds and was retained. I also believe Dorsey could have fired him, but I think Haslam really, really, really wanted to keep him. Mainly for continuity reasons...

I urge people to read the article in The Athletic about Haslam... You'll learn why we were the way we were... you'll learn how we got to where we are today... and you'll learn that Hue Jackson actually DID have a say in the quarterbacks...

I think it also offers insight as to possibly why Hue is still here.

https://theathletic.com/189255/2017/12/2...-wrong-and-why/


There are certainly things to love about Hue... but I don't think it's unfair to question him. I think it's remarkable he had an 0-16 team fighting for a win.

I don't want Hue to fail, but I'm allowed to be skeptical based on his past and in-game decisions. If Hue goes on to win a super bowl with the Browns, I'll be ecstatic. I don't know that he's the answer although many seem to already think he is after 2 wins in 5 games... I'll remain with the wait and see crowd, but he hasn't done enough to earn my faith.

Also, I really don't want to be the Bengals. And it scares me we might be heading that way. I don't want to make the playoffs and lose and be ok with it. I want to win...to win it all. I'm nervous that because we've been bad for so long that .500 and an occasional playoff appearance is ok with everyone... I'm not overly enthused about the idea.

#evidencematters

No doubt. Hopefully you see the truth now.

The evidence is what Dorsey said in my sig. and what we are now seeing on the field. I'm not the one here with poor vision.

Dorsey saw. Dorsey said and Dorsey fixed.

That's fine. Irrelevant, but fine.

That's not evidence. It's factually incorrect.

The defense is primarily filled with players from other regimes (primarily the last one), and now, considered one of the league's best, particularly the front four and all LBs.

60% of the offensive line and arguably the best RB and TEs.

It's funny what a good QB can do to amplify the talent that already exists.

Some people are much too small to admit they may have misjudged things.

You, Memphis, Vambo, rasta, cfrs, and peen can keep on hating. It's revealing.

Have a good one.

I really don't know what you are talking about.



Hue decides who plays and who doesn't. He's the head coach.



If you are saying Hue is in a diminished role for what ever reason, I'd had to pause and consider again.



So let me get this straight, your theory is Hue doesn't have say over who plays and who doesn't. Correct?

At this point, I feel like Firing Hue would be counterproductive. We've finally got a pretty good group of people in the front office and coaching positions. We have proven coordinators. And we are getting to the point where our personnel on the field are good enough to execute our gameplan and actually win games.

At the point we're at, staying the course the next few seasons seems like the logical thing to do. IMO firing hue isn't worth the risk that comes with hiring a new guy who may, quite possibly, want different coordinators, different players, or even institute a power struggle with those in the FO...

We've basically gone through a tough road with HJ, firing him just as you are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel just doesn't make any sense.

Citing how long and dark the tunnel was is really meaningless in the here and now....

There are quite a few posters on here who can never admit they were wrong. Once they hate on man, it is hate for life.

They just make themselves look foolish by continuing their hateful tirades.

No one misjudged anything. But what I said would happen is exactly what you did. Not surprising.

Keep hating.

Here is the difference between guys like you and me. I didn't like Baker, but when I saw him play well, I was man enough to admit that he is playing well and that I am glad that we took him.

On the other hand, you--and a few others--refuse to admit that Hue is doing a good job and won't give him credit. And that perhaps guys like Pit and I were right about not writing the book on him before he had talent on the roster.

Your agenda stinks to high heaven.

Wow. You completely misread or didn't read my post and continue to insult what you didn't read.

There was no hate in my post, just the truth.

Im sorry to have interrupted your Hue love affair. Carry on.

Quote from device last year:



Nice call.

You are criticizing me for supporting a member of the Browns?

LMAO

I'm not in the fire Hue camp Vers, but I'm not far from it. You say he's doing a good job but I think the team and OCs are doing the good job. In my mind the jury is still out on Hue and he came into the season undeserving of his position.

That said, I want to see how it goes this year and don't want anything to kill the progress we are making.

Lol. Wow. What hue did the last two years won't change and Hue was a terrible coach. There's no denying that... can't change 0-16...or 1-31.

What happens this year will never change that.

But I guess if you want to pretend he's a good head coach I can't stop you. I do hope he gets there, but he's not there yet.

It will be interesting to see your reaction when Hue is fired. Do you admit being wrong or say it's a mistake?

"Lol. Wow?"

Some of us maintained that it was hard to judge Hue because the talent on the roster was so poor. Guys like you mocked us and still are.

Yet, this team has won some games this year.

Are you saying it's all luck?

I say that the talent has improved. I say that Hue might be able to win w/some talent. I never said he was a great coach.

Instead, I said I would evaluate him when he was dealt a fair hand.

You are part of a group that is small-minded and vindictive. You made post after post after post last year where you guaranteed Hue would be fired and Sashi retained. You were wrong. Admit it.

The team is better this year than last. Yes or no? What's the difference? A GM who improved the roster or made it worse from your beloved Sashi Brown?

Time for you and the other Hue haters to give it up!!!

What the hell are you talking about? You kept telling us you guaranteed he would be fired last year.

And, what is your comment on Sashi being fired. Were you wrong or was it a mistake?

I'm not part of any "group."

Again, the point goes well over your head. I still contend the problem wasn't Sashi. There's no telling where this roster would be if sashi wasn't let go. It could be the same, could be worse, could be better. Only you claim to know that answer.

7 players brought in by Sashi's regime are starters on defense. And that's just the defense.

Dorsey didn't come in here and tear the roster down to the studs, he just added to it.

I don't doubt Hue can win with some talent. You could make Hue the coach of the patriots and I think they will win some games because of the talent but I don't believe they'd be the dynasty they are today.

I don't think a more talented roster means Hue will stop making poor decisions like some of you do. Time will tell... but ive always said I can hope he's learned from the past couple years. I don't think he will, but if he does, that's where i'll be wrong.

Does anyone notice how hard this team is playing for Hue? Heck, they played hard for him last year. The difference is the man now has better players. I say we stick with him and keep building what we have.

The Browns had the highest turnover of their roster of any team in the league.

Keep hating and you can have the last word.

I'm going to enjoy the season.

They do play hard for Hue. And if you watched Hard Knocks and his post-game videos, a person would be hard-pressed to deny that he is a great motivator of men.

Some people can never admit they are wrong. Their egos are too fragile.

Like I said earlier............I didn't want the Browns to draft Baker, but the guy is balling. I'm GLAD TO BE WRONG. Others, can't admit they were wrong and hold onto their dumb ass agendas forever.

We got a new GM. You were the one who preached to the board how new GMs will bring in their own players. Now you're arguing against yourself?

It would appear you're the one here with the hate. I'm not even mad...