DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What Really Matters

All signs are certainly pointing up. There are still some boneheaded decisions, but it's not farmer bad or kicking the problem down the road bad like sashi.

I have to disagree that we were "in" maybe only 2 games last year.

WE lost 4 games by 3 points.

Lost others by 4, 6 & 8.

Hardly anything to brag about, but 7 losses by single scores (yes I consider 8 to be a TD & 2 pt conv a single score) or less is hardly "maybe 2 games".

I am pretty sure we got rid of a large portion of the offensive coaching staff from LY so it must not have been just the players that were viewed negatively by new management at the end of the year.

We alos have lost all but 1 game this year by a single score - with a lot of new coaches, and a lot of new players. . . .

seems a pattern ?

I agree w/you that Dorsey is doing a very good job thus far. He has upgraded the talent in just one year. We're not quite there yet, but we are improving.

This one's for you @AdamtheBullFAN: last year, #Browns were up, tied or w/in one score in the 4th quarter in 7 games. They didn't win any. This year, they've been up in the 4th quarter in 4 of 7 games, and tied in Q4 in another 2. They've won two. To close out games, you need...?

https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status/1054810366205722624

Hue said this in OAK when they couldn't close out games. He still hasn't fig it out :

"The killer instinct has got to exist here. It's something I've talked about. When you don't finish games at the end like we haven't, this has been going on all year. I mean, this feeling I've had has been there all year and you try to change it, change it, change it and I haven't been able to get it changed. I know what needs to happen and we'll move forward."

Like bone said there’s a lot of good things going on and what REALLY MATTERS is teh gm and qb both give us hope ... long way to go but we seem to have a solid football gm that actually knows what he’s doing and we have a qb that shows promise and does a lot of things u want from your rookie qb ... jusry’s out and he has a lot to prove yet but there’s definetly potential and a shot we finally have a good one ...

Would LOVE to have one thread where Hue was not mentioned AGAIN .... there’s two entire forums dedicated to the defenders the vultures and the fence sitters ... any chance we can PLEASE KEEP him out of this thread ... focus on ALL THINGS NOT HUE related ...

Any chance dawgs? ...

Look at what we have ... the cubbards have been almost bare for 20 years and now there LOADED WITH GOOD PLAYERS and players with GREAT POTENTIAL ... lets take a look at the cubbard and see what’s inside ...

U start with the MOST IMPORTANT food group the GM ... so far so good with Mr. Dorsey ... why will become evident as we go through the rest of the food groups ... hey .. i asked for no hue didnt say anything about dietary or nutrition restraints ... *LOL* ...

Its the food pyramid ... GM ... check ...

2nd level is only one “blocK’ also ... unlike a Norma pyramid ... *LOL* ..

We have QB that has POTENTIAL for a change ... he’s shown some real good things ... some real good things ... he has a shot ..

THEN U GO TO THE NEXT SHELF IN THE CUBBARD ... ooops ... and u have the rush and end and shut down corner ... CHECK and CHECK .... Ward is the real deal .. i usually wait 3 years or so .. NO NEED TO HERE ... kid is special ... NO BRAINER ...

MG IS MG ... HE’S DOING PLENTY dang it .. sorry .... yet i somehow come away unsatisfied with him ... thats on me i believe ... hes playing well above average i just don’t see the domination in him i think he’s capable of ... is it just me? ...

Then u go to the next shelf and some of them need some to be desired ... but theres plenty of good eats left on those shelves also ... in no particualr order ...

Vice Grips ...
Duke
Chubb has a ton of potential ... dude looks to have a shot to be better than i thought and i was fairly high on him .. lets hope your right on this one Mr. Fl. Dawg ... WOOF WOOF to u on that one, lets hope it keeps up ... hes got a shot ...

Shobert is a heck of a player .. i was wrong on him even after last year ... he da man ..

Mitchell ...
Randall .. ARE U KIDDING ME with this dude ..
Peppers is playing better at safety .. still MILES to go but he’s making plays at least some of the time ... as a RETURN MAN .... can u say LIGHT SWITCH .... he looked like the worst return guy ever .. all of a sudden hes getting up the field and making moves and showing what we thought he would be doing from day 1 ... then theres the fumble ... he best learn to secure the ball better from that or his days will be short lived back there .. u can’t FUMBLE a return ...

Obi - talk about a 2nd year leap ...
Ogbah showed up last week ... we need him .. and if he returns to his form at the end of his rookie year on a consistent basis ... that would be a really good thing ...

Smith has played well when he’s been out there ...
Avery has a specialty ... he’s very good at that .. lets see if he can’t become a complete player ..

Harrison ...
Bitino ..

There’s a lot to be SMILING ABOUT for a change ... we have some talent at key postitions and plenty of talent surronding them ...

I forgot Higgins

and Njoku whose improving ...

Anyone else? ...

So much to be positive about ... EVEN IN THIS LAST LOSS ...

Many many positives in that game getting drown out by the L ... its a real shame were not talking about that anywhere on here ...

PLEASE keep Hue out of this thread fellas ...

Lets focus on some football in this thread if we can ...

JMHO, stop worrying about the killer instinct at the end of games to put teams away.. start worrying about holding away from the ball on 12 yard runs, jumping offsides on 3rd and 2, for 60 freaking minutes.

Over the course of the entire game, we have outplayed almost everybody we have faced this year and we have repeatedly had to overcome ourselves.. the fact that every game is a 1 score game in the final few minutes is our own fault... we should have had several very comfortable victory formation wins if we could stop shooting ourselves in the foot the entire game.

Fix the lack of discipline throughout the game and the winning will take care of itself.

One of the other things that bothers me, Kirksey and a couple others on the team whining about the refs on social media.. it's a bad look. I get it, you think you are getting screwed, in some cases you probably are.. you can't let it get into your head, stop talking about it and play.

This game is simple.

1) Jump out to an early lead

2) Limit mistakes

3) Maintain Momentum

4) Grind Out the clock

5) Win


It's so simple, but about 28 of 32 teams struggle with at least one of those things every year.

Problem is, all five, we don’t do well.

Here is a major problem with penalties:

Rookie LT
RT new to the team this year (and everyone talks about how important it is to establish continuity on the OL)
Rookie QB
Rookie RB
1 veteran WR playing with 3 Rookie WRs, and 1 who has been here a week and a half

That's a lot to deal with. Oh, and ton of dropped passes by everyone on the team. Also, rookies have a lot to learn, and they do make mistakes. False start. Well, who are farthest from the snap? LT, RT, and WR ..... and the QB has to be on the same page as well. Many of these are rookies, and most are new to the team this year. It takes time, but it should be getting better.

That's the offense.

I would add that Baker is a rookie. He is seeing a ton of new stuff every week, as teams try like heck to confuse him. The encouraging thing is that he doesn't seem to stay confused. Part of that is coaching.

We were also down 2 of our top 3 CB against the Bucs. Our Pro Bowl MLB was out. Our FS had to move to CB for the game.

This team makes a lot of rookie mistakes. Baker running for the 1st down with the ball closest to traffic, and a clear path to the sideline. He should have switched the ball so it wasn't a target to the defender. That's just one example. There have been many.

We have also had inexplicably bad calls against us this year. We won the Raiders game, until someone decided that they wanted the Raiders to cover. That one still frosts my behind.

We just have to get rid of Hue Jackson....like we should have done 2 seasons ago.

We are never, ever going to have a talented enough team to overcome the fact we have the most inept coach in the NFL history.

Shouldn't coaching be an advantage?

part of this is also better continuity for Baker. He has done well for rookie year. But he also needs to have a focus to avoid bad habits developing. But lots of issues mentioned here really matter. That said, win in spite of it. That is where we will need to end up.

You started a thread called "what really matters", now what really matters in the NFL are WINS.

And yes you started a thread to excuse Hue... because if you didn't your logic conclusions would be...

What really matters is the team, and Hue is being a distraction,subtracting more than what he is adding...

You also would be able to see that the Defense and Offense are each playing with a different plan...

I think the O has given the team many chances to win games...We start slow but finish strong.

We are the 5th best team running, that is something ...

OL is pretty good, don't know why you are complaining.

We have a backup QB that last year took a team to the playoffs and traded the starting RB


But we have the worst Head Coach in football history, and we also have a DC that loves the headlights....

If only we could have the O & D in the same mind set....

Don’t be a douche Rasta ....

There’s two forums of threads for this ... please show SOME RESPECT and allow us one thread without this crap ...

Seriously .. u have two forums ful of hue bashing threads ... and u can’t honor someone’s request to keep it out of here? ...

Come on dawg ... do whats right ...

In response, I feel that coaching DOES matter, not just Hue, but everyone on the staff. The drops that have bitten the team, I look at the WR coach. The false starts, the OL coach, the special teams break downs, the ST coach. Unfortunately, this is one industry where poop does indeed roll uphill to the HC. Whether he is actually at fault or not.

What really matters is that we develop our first overall pick, that is a QB, as best we can and don’t ruin him.

I agree with much of what you say. It looks like we have a good general manager for a change, and Mayfield looks to be the real deal. That's for the Browns right there.

There's a ton of other young talent at well, including at pass rusher, corner, and many other positions.

There are also some holes, especially on offense. There are a lot of young guys and free agents-- it's hard to expect a smooth oiled machine, as you say.

All the stuff about players needing time to play together implies that the team should improve. In what world would it make sense for a team with many young players, free agents, and players acquired in trades to get worse as they gain experience and time practicing/playing with each other?

I think this is something to watch as time goes by. Do we get better, or do we get worse? The last two weeks (second half of the Bucs game notwithstanding) have been a little disheartening. Do we fall apart and finish well behind teams we were competing with early in the season, or do we get it together and make the season interesting? Time will tell.

I think this is the best our organization has looked since our rebirth. I have been very critical of this team over the years. Some said it was negativity, but I was just trying to be realistic. I will say that I had hope after the 2007 season, but the next year was a nightmare.

I have seen a manipulative media and many fans who don't know the first thing about football continually call for changes and it's never worked. In fact, we always regressed.

Finally, I have seen improvement. I've seen an actual direction. A plan where the GM gets the coaching staff the talent that can help them compete. I don't see the dysfunction that are some are fabricating.

I think these things "Really Matter:"

--Ownership seems more stable. I think Dee is a big part of that. She has been a steadying influence on her emotional and reactionary husband.

--I think we have a battle-tested GM who improved the talent on the roster by leaps and bounds in just one year.

--I think we have a head coach who has the support of the locker room. I think a lot of people have a misconception of what HC's do in the NFL. They need to be a leader of men. They need to be someone that grown men can follow. We have that in Hue.

--I think we have two intelligent and experienced coordinators.

--I think we have a QB who has the potential to be the guy. I worry about his reading post-snap coverages a bit, but he has a lot going for him. I love his moxie, toughness, arm strength, accuracy [for the most part,] and leadership qualities.

--We have an excellent Edge rusher, which is the second most important position on the field.

--We have a stud corner. I thought the kid would be good, but he is blowing me away. That is the next most important position on the field.

--We have cap money.

--We have a young team that is learning how to compete and finish games while they are gaining valuable experience.

--We still have draft assets.

In summary, I think we have a team that actually gives me real hope for the future. I hope the people at the top display the fortitude to carry out the plan and don't succumb to all the noise from folks who don't get it.

There are a lot of good things going on, and I certainly thing having the right guy at HC really matters.

the OP was the one that mentioned Hue - "regardless of what you think about Hue". So expect people to reply to the OP comments.

Hue Jackson is the Head Coach of the Cleveland Browns (he told us remember:) ). So a thread about the "what really matters" seems like there are going to be comments and post about the Head Coach as either something that matters, or something that doesn't. Either way if you like hue or don't - hes going to brought up in the discussion about HIS TEAM.

You talked about the GM, you talked about individual players, you talked about a lot positive things, Diam. So in a thread about positive things, and things that matter, you don't want to talk about hue? Does that not concern you at all? Or speak LOUDLY at the fact, that you didn't mention one single thing about Hue that matters? Think about that for a minute.

J/C

Right now the only thing that matters is Baker Mayfield, IMO. Your team ends and dies at QB. We need to surround him with the best possible cast of characters around him on the field, the best support group off the field, and the best coaching staff possible.

We will live and die with Baker Mayfield. He's where all our chips are right now, and if he doesn't work, its going to be another few years.

Vers, I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. I agree with the stud corner.. what would you say if we do it again at corner and picked up...

8. Cleveland Browns
Greedy Williams, CB, LSU. To hear Hue Jackson tell it, the offense needs his help. But this unit has a lot of young playmakers who just need to grow into their roles. A wide receiver is an obvious need but not this high. Instead, Cleveland continues to assemble the league's best young stable of defensive talent; a year after adding the best cornerback in the 2017 draft, they double down and get Williams, the best cornerback in the '18 draft class.

THANKS DAWGS ... APPRECIATE THE RESPCECT ... not even one thread ... guess thats to much to ask in todays world ...

Sorry bone .. we tried .. apearantly everything football revolves around hue and nothing else ...

Its just a reflection on todays society ... DROWN OUT ANY SPEECH U DON’T LIKE .. in this case ... EVEYRTHING MUST REVOLVE AROUND HUE ...

He’s the center of the football universe ...

There turning this place into the HUE VERSION of the CESS POOL ...

ALL HUE ALL THE TIME ... no discussion can be had w/o hue being front and center ...

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo

We got a special section of the Isle for U and the est of your vulture cronies will ... a special place ...

Seriously bro ... not even one thread? ... come on bro ... don’t do me like that ...

Just pointing out what I see, Diam. We can disagree and still be buds and respectful.

I am simply pointing out that a topic of "what matters" - should involve the head coach.

If you make a topic about "what matters" in NE, do you think BB is not brought up as a part of "what matters"

It goes vice versa as well. If you believe Hue is a good coach and on the right track, then he is what matters and you should include him.

I am not sure why people think that the HEAD COACH of a football team, of which this message board is based around, would not be the most talked about topic or have any influence on what matters with HIS TEAM.

There are threads about the Refs, Amari cooper, the oline, baker, the WR's, etc. there are plenty of threads where Hue is not being discussed.

This thread is specifically about What Matters on this football team, sorry I feel that the HEAD COACH of the football should matter.

Unless there is a Ray Lewis type LB sitting there ahead of this kid, I'd be fully onboard with doubling down at CB, then we can spend all day in Nickel with Mitchell out there as well and not care much about what receivers the opponent trots out to face us.

If only there wasn't another team trying to prevent all of that...

I think you're completely glossing over the fact that a head coach is a coach first of all, but let's go with the organizational coordinator angle.

Think about all the skills and knowledge one would need to effectively run a football team. Here's a very incomplete list off the top of my head:

- Thorough knowledge of a wide range of football fundamentals

- Good Xs and Os knowledge

- Ability to teach players various concepts, with the realization that many of them got into college based more on athletic ability than academics, and none have the experience that you do as a coach

- Ability to lead and motivate players, and get them to play hard

- Knowledge of the human body and how players respond to practice, injuries, games, weight training, the importance of diet and sleep on recovery and how to integrate all this into a system that fits within the constraints of the football season and collective bargaining agreement

- Ability to deal with the media, who will use their benefit of hindsight against you in the most ridiculous ways, and twist any turn slightly misspoken words into major faults

- Ability to deal with ownership and management, some of whom may have objectives other than the urgent need to win football games.

- The ability to adapt on the fly. Our flight got delayed due to weather and now our walkthrough is scrapped, now what?

- Knowledge of game situations, what to do on 2 point and 4th down situations, rare end of half/game situations, etc.


I could go on and on but you get the point. These are all complicated subjects in their own right and it takes a really bright person to see how this all fits together. It is reasonable to expect an NFL head coach to have extensive knowledge of ALL of these-- we are talking about the best and brightest here (at least in theory, albeit often not in practice) who have been coaching for decades. This is their life's work.

It should be completely unforgiveable for a head coach to not go for 2 in the second half when their team is down by 2, for example. Yet, amazingly enough, we still see this happen sometimes. You know some fans are going to operate in the "if it converts, it's a good decision. If it doesn't convert, it's a bad decision" frame of mind but you expect a professional football coach to be able to think a little more deeply than that.

Take Belichick. This guy is a tremendous coach. Nobody would say he's just an organizational coordinator. Is he a defensive guy? Offensive guy? Special teams guy? Sure, he won a couple Super Bowls as Bill Parcells's defensive coordinator so that's how he brought up. However, the New England offense has been at the very forefront for years, he's obsessive about "the kicking game", so I don't really know anymore.

Go down my list, you'll see he probably has a good solution to every single idea I suggested, and surely many more. You know their mystery guy, Ernie Adams? The one that nobody could figure out what he did. I couldn't tell you exactly but there are a lot of ways to attack the data, research new possibilities, and improve on inefficiencies in the league.

I have my own ideas on all these things but I'm just a casual fan and have my own stuff to do. I don't have the time to dedicate to all this stuff. However, I expect that a head coach absolutely should! If your head coach is just some organizational coordinator who gets chummy with the players and that's all he does, then he's no NFL head coach and you need to get someone in there who is.

By the way, there might be an issue of semantics here, as a lot of what I wrote could be interpreted as being an organizational coordinator.

When I think of organizational coordinator how you suggested, I'm thinking of things that are relatively mundane-- setting the practice schedule, being a face for the media, that kind of thing.

I think it goes much deeper than that and the head coach can (and should) put his stamp more directly on the team by being a coach as well. I wouldn't say authoritarian dictator style.. I don't think that works so well anymore, but he's still the head coach. He still has authority over the team and ultimately he is most responsible for how the team performs.

No kidding?

The problem is you and the other guys obsessed w/getting Hue fired only talk about Hue and lay all the blame at his feet on almost every freaking thread.

A lot of us are sick of it. You guys don't discuss him rationally. It's a freaking witch hunt.

There is more to this team than ONLY Hue Jackson, but you and others won't let us talk about the team. Once again, there are about a half-dozen of you that bring this board down.

Believe me, we all know you guys hate Hue and blame him for global warming and worldwide poverty. You tell us that a dozen or so times a day.

You really can't lay off on a thread or two?

Do you think we could have a forum dedicated to Hue? Kinda like when YTown asked that the political debates be moved out of EE and be given their own forum?

That way, the guys that want to trash Hue two dozen times a day can go at it all day, every day. And the rest of us can actually have conversations?

I haven't studied the draft, Saint. But, I have watched Greedy play in 3 games. Auburn, Florida, and Georgia. I like him a lot.

I'm unable to give an honest evaluation as to where he ranks because again, I haven't been looking into the draft. However, I really do like him as a player from what I have seen. He is very aggressive and attacks the ball.

I think having two great corners would be awesome.

I personally think discussing the head coach is fair grounds. Most of us are pretty happy with Dorsey and Mayfield, the Haslams haven't done anything too crazy lately, and that kind of leaves Hue as the one to take the brunt of it all. (Here I'm going by the assumption that the ownership, GM, head coach, and quarterback all get plenty of attention on any football team.)

Have some of us gone too far with Hue? Maybe. I probably have. Personally though, I've tried to keep my thoughts about Hue entirely in the Hue threads so I'm not really sure what you expect when you open these.

This thread has a more positive vibe, but also has many obscure (and not so obscure) references to the coaching. My post in reply was talking about coaching as a whole with only one short reference to Hue. I think that's fair.

There's an easy solution to all of this... just win baby. Winning cures everything. Well to be honest, we'll still probably bicker back and forth on here but at least we'll be happier while we do it.

Please don't purposely misinterpret my point. Of course it is fair game. However, ...........

Wait, never mind. Bash away.