DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What Really Matters

I haven't even started studying the available players in the draft, so thanks for the heads-up.

I think at this point, it's hard to say where we will get players at positions of need. I have always been a firm believer in best player available w/no more than a 2 spot swing for need.

I do think we are getting to the point in the season where we can start evaluating players/units. And I think we all have seen that Dorsey will make trades, use FA, and draft well. Thus, we have a lot of options.

Thus far, I think I'm the only one to bring up a kicker. I know it's not the first thing that jumps to one's mind, but I think it's really important that we at least get a "reliable" guy.

Ya ... sounds like we pretty much agree ... sounds like i’m Just a wee bit harsher on him ...

I’ve said the same thing a few times about him as a “swing” guy but not just between the tackles as he can play inside also ... i think thats his true value to a team ... he played a lot of games for Pitt the last two years at different positions ...

He’s like the “utility” infielder .. there doesnt seem to many of them anymore ... wonder why ... then again i dont follow Major League Baseball so i have no clue how I would know that ... *L* ...

Another thing, I believe I forgot to mention LBer in my first post. You, and a couple of others brought that position up and mentioned Collins.

I think you guys might be right in that we move on from Collins.

I don't know yet. I want to see how he progresses this season.

I think he might be roughly an average "ish" type RT in this league. There seem to be a lot of bad T in the NFL. As Vers said, he also might be more of a Guard type. Our interior line could be, in a couple of years, Bitonio/Corbett/Hubbard, and that might be pretty good.

I was looking at draft prospects myself a few days ago.

We are probably still going to be a top 10 draft position. There are several good looking OT's. It doesn't look as good for for the receiver position.

Pitch and fork mentality, I have no problems with that, tells much more about you guys than of me.

Yes I have been on the other side of the fence in many,many occasions, but guess what most of the times I was right, and they were wrong....

Want to prove me wrong? Answer the following, which is obvious to you but not to me:

1) What players did Hue found and Develop? All great coaches have great players they have build teams around, Name one in Hue?

I started my post saying that Hue,for many of his defenders, didn't even have any input on the players he was coaching. So what's it going to be? Or is it that he is a good in talent evaluation and development, but because of [insert weird excuse] he wasn't allowed to do it here?

Indulge me, and then you can chuckle all you ant. Please give me an example of great player that was ever coached and developed bu Hue...

You can't can you?

2) I won't even other giving examples where Hue blamed others in public spaces... its just ridiculous we are even questioning this

3)I reaffirm the question- What's is Hue's identity has a coach? If we go through a list of good/great coaches we can see their identity on the teams. Now how are Hue's teams that what makes them good teams?

You guys have nothing that justifies your position and you question my position. If its a question of beliefs, that its ok with me, anyone can believe what they want, now being condescending to the critics of a coach with Hue's record is just absurd, and the prove that deep down you agree with us.

Out of order, but here goes.

2. I said, this is the one I felt resonated with me the most. I explained why, and have kept consistent in the past.

1. There are players on the team now that are developing nicely. Garrett, Avery, Harrison, Mayfield, Higgins (off the top of my head). Higgins is a good example. Garrett is an ok example. Pryor is a really good example. He has worked closely with Hue, credited Hue, and did very well up until he left Hue. You'll probably argue that Garrett, Mayfield, etc. aren't because of Hue and are because of Dorsey/Williams/Haley/positional coaches/Chomps. My crediting Hue is no weaker an argument than yours that the head coach can't be credited with developing players... neither are particularly rooted in fact... and since you're making the assertion, the burden of proof is on you.

3. His identity, in the past, has been a strong passing attack with some creative playcalling, when he has the horses to do so. Continue to ignore this as much as you want. I only have so much patience when arguing with the brick wall.


Your own opinions/bias hangs over your head like a shroud. It covers your eyes and keeps you from seeing what's IN PROCESS on the field in front of you. The young guys are learning and getting better. The QB is doing franchise QB stuff, albeit very inconsistently. The position groups that we've focused on in the offseason are at least seeing sparks of light.
The turnaround we're attempting, from the starting point of a couple years ago, doesn't occur in one offseason. Many of the things we're looking for (things good teams do) don't start happening until the end of the rebuilding process. We're not there yet. Yet.

Not sure we're really ready to go best player available.?
I know when I read that in yellow font ^ a couple posts up, I first thought, well, they cut a bunch of guys,

If they still had Corey Coleman, Josh Gordon, Carlos Hyde,
and I didn't think of the Lb's but did they cut Burgess?
and they had Mychal Kendricks

and wouldn't hurt to have Danny Shelton, oh well, Meder?

Maybe in May they were set up to go BPA, next year, but now they are back to square none.
Are they commited to Tyrod Taylor through the end of next year?

What is the plan? Can they stick with one?

Blanton Collier days were pretty good, too, Bone.

I think we did the smart thing this year, and the thing we should do every year.... you go with the intersection of BPA and Need.
I see next year being no different.

The only thing I see changing is how "Need" gets quantified.
Early on, it is a hole in the roster at the Starter level. Later on, it will be proactively planning for a vacancy due to happen as we expect a veteran to move on - depth that becomes a reload.

I'm thinking they will rate the level of Need for each position (RT, WR, LB, CB) and then score that with the players available.... whichever they feels brings the best return if who we're likely to take, is my guess.

Given that a RT will, barring injury, take 100% of offensive snaps, I would not be shocked if that is the direction we go early unless we sniff out another Desmond Harrison.

What I feel people have to consider is that we're in a much better position now to look at fewer positions of need than we were before. IMO the two would be WR and RT. The secondary could always use talent no matter how much you have there. A stud LB'er can always be used by any team. But actual needs are far fewer than they have been in recent memory.

U don’t rate one LBer as high as RT and WR? ...

and that's what I meant by 'Need' will change in how it is defined year in and year out.

I don't rate the "need" of a LB'er as high as our need at WR and RT.

I haven't researched any college players, but speaking of LBers, I really like what I have seen of Devin White from LSU.

I've seen LSU three times and he flashes. He looks good in coverage and he is great against the run. He's tough. He's their leader. It's a damn shame he'll miss the 'Bama game because of a bogus targeting call.

The only thing I'll say is that this guy is going to be drafted very high, so it might be tough to get him.

Whats your “definition” of monster lber ... the game has changed so much since we’ve been around it ..

Whats your definition of a monster lber in todays game ...

DAWGS .. when i ask a question of a specific poster ... PLEASE CHIME IN .. i’m Asking everyone ...

Vers ... Pitt .... i’d Be very interested in your definitions of a “monster” lber is in todays game also ...

Ray Lewis.

So u want the old fashioned run stuffer? ... thats what i was getting at ... i think the Butkus, Singletary, types may not be in such high demand in that they were great against the run but not so good against the pass and at blitzing ...

Is there really a place for the run stuffing type LBer in todays nfl? ..

Has it evolved so much it’s rendered the run stuffers extinct? ...

Shobert has really opened my eyes to this ... is he the “new” breed of MLber in the nfl? ..

He could go sideline to sideline and blitz ...

Could he cover the pass? ... he was one of the ones i was thinking about ...

This sure would be a fun convo over a beer ...

Where u live bone ... *LOL* ..

6'4" / 260

speed

farm boy strong

great tackler

relentless motor

explosive off the snap

plays sideline to sideline / great nose for the ball

disengages from blockers with quick twitch effeciency

arsenal of pass rush moves

can cover TEs

... your basic "mad dog in a meat market" lol

This is what one scout said about White, the LBer I mentioned a few posts up:

Ray Lewis was excellent against the pass. He had a ton of picks. Very smart.

When I think of a monster LBer or great LBer, I think of a guy who can play the run, rush the passer, and be good in coverage. They are three down guys and not specialists.

I think Luke Keuchly is an excellent all-around LBer.

Guys, I really hope you will check out Devin White. This dude is special.

Looked up Butkis’ dimensions: 6’3”, 245. Kind of light in the ass for today’s NFL.

I do like all I’ve seen from the LSU kid, White, as Vers said. Where would that leave Schobert?

I floated the idea of trading a first and Jamie Collins for Patrick Peterson to some friends. It was an interesting conversation.

Ward and Peterson would be dynamic together.

I'm not positive, but I think I saw something today about Peterson now saying he doesn't want traded.

I agree about Keuchly. Excellent player.

I will dig into White.

Ward adds so much to our defense. And with Garrett two cornerstones.

Now we need that backer.

He stands out in the games I have seen. He can aggressively get off blocks, and is really quick, while maintaining strength. One thing that really stands out is how guys go down immediately when he gets his hands on them.

In Butkis days OL were 260-270.

His shoulder pads were bigger than I am.

In the 60's the OL were closer to 250-255.

I know theres differences between the two, but when I see Devin White play I see alot ot Keith Bullock in him...great size to speed combo, flies around, and latches on to you.