DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Please do it RIGHT this time

WHY?

I seriously doubt Dorsey goes to the College ranks.

I'm looking at Taub from KC.

Could be, like the rest of us, I have no clue who we are going to hire.

All I know is that both Dorsey and whoever takes the helm need to have similar visions on how things need to be.

It seems pretty clear to me that he and Hue didn't have the same views. I agree that Haslam created this situation. He should have let Dorsey bring in his own coach after last season and not forced a wedding on the two.

I think that Dorsey is finally getting through to Jimmy. I hope so anyway. The change in staff at this point in the season is a good sign that it is beginning, or has happened.

Have you learned nothing from the Tim Couch and Charlie Frye eras?

Once you start blaming the OL, the WR's and the OC, its a clear sign that the QB is not good enough.

If Baker is good, he won't need any excuses for his lack of performance.

I agree...

I'd give Lincoln Riley less than 1% chance to be the next head coach of the Browns...

At this point, I'd think someone like Schwartz is the current favorite to land the job.

Maybe...any of this can be right or wrong. I just get the feeling that Dorsey is going to go for a guy who can get the QB playing to his strengths.

I don't know if it will be Riley, but I do think it will be someone a little more current in their views of offensive football.

j/c

In regards to Baker. Baker certainly has talent. But the fact is the plan was to sit him this year. There are reasons for that. Dorsey had the exact same plan for Mahomes and we can all see the dividends that paid.

Baker being forced into the position he is currently in isn't doing him any favors. It isn't a positive in his development. Being thrown into the fire is something many fans seem to think is a good thing. Maybe so until the player starts getting burned.

Agreed. With all the injuries and said turmoil he has done really well. The talent is there it just needs to be developed further as well as getting more talent around him; playmakers!!

Vers, in response to your post about BM's looking worse. I think it's more accepted (by the public) for a rookie QB to hit the wall at about midway through the season than it is for the other positions.

People expect it from the QB, as defenses have tape on them and can pick apart their tendencies.

I think fans give more slack to, say, an offensive lineman, not necessarily because of a lack of learning curve, but because they've been told over and over how steep the learning curve is for the QB.

That makes sense.

Yes.


I think many people don't realize there's a steep learning curve for an offensive lineman as well...

Learning and playing are different. Knowing your assignments comes before winning those little wars. Lines have to play together as schemed and called. But they have to get used to the guys around them too. Knowing your job and doing your job can be worlds apart IMO.

If it is Toub then we know Dorsey is making the call. Riley might be the guy, but my money would be on Toub right now.

Getting lost in all of this talk is Haslem did NOT want to fire Hue. Dorsey had to talk him into it so he obviously has his ear right now.

Too many rumors w/out quotes from the principles are being stated as fact.

Opinions are cool. So is speculation. But stating rumors as fact are not.

There have been multiple posts about what was going on in Berea stated factually. Reading "reports" does not make the rumors true or untrue.

I don't really want a college guy either. I'm looking at Toub as well.

I don't know about that last part. Haslam was the one that said internal discord would not be tolerated. He seemed pretty emphatic when he said that. If anything, I would assume the opposite.

in todays current NFL on offense a successful QB needs a combo of the following

a WR that can take the top off the defense
TE that can dominate the middle of the field
from hash mark to hash mark
or a RB that can lineup wide a the x y z spots Mayfield has really none of those elements
the offense lacks a real end zone threat.

Grossi laid out a theory yesterday that actually seemed plausible on the Next Level 850 (FYI, I am not a Grossi fan, but he made some good points)

He stated that the browns PR Monday morning released the schedule with nothing out of the ordinary. They even stated that Hue would be available to the media at his normal time of I think he said 3:30.

Grossi's point was, if you are going to fire your coach, you don't release to the media he was gong to be available later that day.

Bitonio stated it was like any other Monday. they went to their first meeting, then heard Hue had been fired on their phones.

Grossi contest that Hue showed up, and demanded Haley was fired. Then they fired Hue. He then contest that either 1 of 2 things happened, as to why Haley was let go an hour later.

1. Haley may have been told Gregg was going to be the Interim, and he threw a fit, and they canned him.

or

2. Haley had been disruptive and insubordinate all season trying to undermine Hue (I.E. starting Gordon, not giving Chubb carries, refusing to change offense). After firing Hue they thought about it, and though was just best to move on from all this childish behavior.

I easily can see both scenarios have taken place...I don't think we will ever know for sure unless Jackson writes a book 1-31: The Hue Jackson Story of Triumph and WHY its Not my Fault. I just think IMO that Grossi may have actually got something right here.

The PR releasing Hue was scheduled to meet w/ media as normal later in the day is telling to me they were NOT going to fire Hue and something happened on Monday morning.

I doubt we'll ever get the full story, or even half the story. That scenario is at least plausible.

Well if it is a rumor than almost every national guy (Rap, Adam S, etc) and local guys (Rueter, Adkins, etc) are passing along the same rumor.

Do we know for sure? No you can never know anything for sure unless you are in the room. However, when a large quantity of the people who get PAID to report on a subject are hearing the same thing then I am comfortable believing it.

Agree. I can see either way. I don't think we ever will.

You do realize that a lot of the reporting comes from one reporter and then national guys pick up on that information and post the same thing, right?

And I wasn't picking on you specifically. I have seen a ton of examples of posters using reports, or what this board used to call rumors and did not allow, as factual evidence.

I realize I won't be able to stop that habit from continuing, but I think it is w/in my rights to point out that rumors are not necessarily true or false.

Here are quotes/links though.....


https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/status/1056941917370494976

[Rapoport] As of early this morning, the #Browns could have gone one of two ways: Make a change at OC or make a change at head coach. Owner Jimmy Haslam sounded like he wanted to keep Hue Jackson. GM John Dorsey wanted to move on. In the end, they moved on from Hue Jackson.

https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/1056951144134643712

That was just a quick search.....plenty more saying the same thing. I don't post rumors as opinions, but when reports are made by numerous people I think we have to give them at least plausible validity.....whether we like the report or not.

You are completely missing my point, but whatever...

Ruiter was saying last week (along with Adkins) that Dorsey wanted Hue gone after the Bucs loss. It's why I posted to you and Diam last week that we might not agree with it but he was basically a dead man walking. So it isn't a new report actually as Ruiter/Adkins had been saying this for over a week before it happened.

What some don't realize, is there will be a report usually from a local guy - then the next guy will call HIS source to see if the report has legs, then he will call ANOTHER source to see if that SAME report also has legs.

So the one report from the local guy that was listed, will be verified by multiple sources before its re-reported by the next guy, and then the same by the next guy.

If they do not use their own sources they will typically say "Per Jason LaCanfora" or "Per Shefter". It they simply report it, it means its per them and verified by their sources.

Multiple NATIONAL and LOCAL guys REPORTED the story. They didn't just simply put out "per shefter", some did - but a lot of others verified w/ their sources and believe to be true.

spot on Vers

Mary Kay reports it, then someone else parrots it, then when a Rappaort repeats it, it grows like wildfire and every is, was or wannabe reporter latches on and its fact.

My point is when enough people who are paid to report on a sport all say the same thing is happening it isn't a rumor. It could be false (the infamous Fake News nonsense) but it isn't a rumor. You or I can choose whether to believe what is said, but it is the report we choose not to believe not a rumor.

Sorry to be defensive, but I hate rumors (Browns are trading for OBJ stuff) and don't post them on this board. Anything I post I say imho or I commenting on a report such as what is posted above.

I certainly don't question the talent that Mayfield possesses. I'm more concerned about the situation he's been placed in.

I was for giving Hue this season and judging his performance at seasons end. But we were losing games we should have won and things seemed to be going backwards. I don't see anything gained any time a team fires their HC mid season. But in this case, I at least understand the reasoning why they didn't let it continue.

I am hoping for some better performance out of BM and the offense, the defensive secondary, and ST's.

Can anybody see us doing any better.

I'm not really sure why we should expect that. We're starting out playing KC. It's a team that Dorsey has already built. They have a lot of weapons. It doesn't look like a positive outcome.

Getting Higgins back would be very helpful. But I think a lot of people disregard how this much upheaval in the coaching staff has on a team and its players. Very rarely has changing HC's and an OC mid season led to anything positive.

Impossible? No.

Highly unlikely? Definitely.

Well most reports are that Haslam wanted to fire haley, Dorsey wanted to fire hue.

Haslam setup the structure like it is, because he trusted HUE. he gave Hue a lot of power in that building, and we saw it. The second it came down to sashi or hue, it was Hue he rode with. Lets not forget it was sashi that drafted decent players and set us up with a lot of picks. It was hue that wanted to mortgage our future for AJ McCarron. Think about that, if not for Sashi "forgetting paperwork" Hue would have traded essentiall Nick Chubb and Chad Thomas for AJ McCarron.

Haslam, I think is learning. People are trashing him for the carousel of coaches - understandably so. But lets look at it objectively a little.

1. Not a single coach we have fired has had success again as a HC afterwards. Not one.

2. His biggest complaint from us is his lack of continuity, but the dude was willing to keep a coach 1-31 for continuity. It was unprecedented that Hue returned to this team this year, and we were a joke for letting him - which was simply because of Haslam trying to for continuity.

You don't become a billionaire with some type of strategy. Haslam took a big swing with Sashi, podesta, etc. He was TRYING to look for a new model and new way of thinking. SPorts are ever changing. Haslam failed in his doing this, yes. Miserably so. We know that. But he had the cajones to know he failed, and cut ties with Hue - the last piece to that failed project.

Cool. I don't know him personally, so I cannot judge respect or not for him. Although, the beer at the press conference was pretty cool.

I think he already has. That's why Hue Jackson was fired on Monday.

Normally when you spend a billion dollars on something, its all yours.


I highly doubt there is an owner in football where the owner doesn't have a say or call some shots. I would even say Kraft in NE gives his input.

There is not a organization on EARTH where the owner of that organization doesn't have say in the operation.

Every employee of every company has the support of their boss, until they don't. lol

You call it a lie, I call it doing what you feel is best for your organization

I manage a credit union. I have faith my employees are doing their job, and they have my support. If I come into work tomorrow, and find out my employees are out of balance 500 dollars from the night before, they are immediately terminated. But the night before we had conversations they were a great employee.

eh, I call them news reports w/ sources. but I guess so. I also call it deductive reasoning. Dorsey didn't hire hue. Dorseys job is directly correlated with the success of the team. Dorsey had a HC he did not hire that went 1-31. I don't think its out of reason he wanted to fire hue.

I think ultimately it is the owner that makes the firing official. While he may not have wanted to fire Hue, he hired Dorsey to right the ship and sometimes you have to go against your personal feelings and listen to the guy that you think knows what he is talking about. I always thought that was sorta what happened with Chud. Banner wanted Chud gone, thinking he/ Lombardi could land a high profile guy. Haslam pulls the trigger because he has hired a guy (Banner) to make those kind of decisions. When it blows up in Banners face, Haslam has no real choice but to get rid of him. The Chud thing is one that I don't tend to blame on Haslam.