DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Hundreds of Hondurans head for US border in mass migration 'march': report

So many falsehoods in one post...

Question...if these people are fleeing their country for economic reasons....why would they come to the US of A? These people are highly under educated and wont have the needed skills that current employers are looking for...the current drive by the left for people in our country to make $15/hr as a minimum wage is based on the idea that the people in the US can't make enough to live and have to make life or death financial decisions...these migrants will be in worse shape then the people living in the USA that can't currently make it...so why would you flee your country to another country if you are going to stay in poverty?? Or has the $15/hr crowd overplayed their hand. We cant have it both ways where life in this country is too poor for the people living here but a life of opportunity for poor migrants.

We need Paul harvey

Your whole post is off. They are leaving Honduras because it's turned into a drug war zone, not due to economics. Honduras has amongst the highest murder rates in the world, especially among children.

Punitive measures like child separation ultimately aren't enough. If you want to stop the caravans you probably need to start executing the migrant kids. This is why child separation , on top of it's cruelty , ultimately isn't effective. To the refugees fleeing the war zone, child separation is probably a better fate than murder of your child...

Plenty of articles and interviews of the migrants that left kids and families back in the war zone searching opportunity...if you are worried about you kids lives the why did you leave them??? Why not take them....so your post is off.

Plenty of articles and no time to post some ?

I can't speak for the people fleeing Honduras any more than you can. Neither of us have sat down and had a conversation w/them.

However, I taught many children who came to this country "illegally" over the years. I got to know some of their parents. They came here to work.

A lot of the men became lawn care workers and almost all of them are doing very well. The reason? They work their freaking tails off. From very early in the morning to the very last rays of sunlight each evening. Others have taken jobs in the construction field. I met three who became roofers because no one else wanted to work on the steep roofs that they are putting on the high-scale homes these days.

The women have taken jobs as house cleaners or working in restaurants. They work hard and are both polite and trust-worthy.

Their children are some of the most polite, hard-working, and respectful kids I have ever met. I remember being intimidated when I met a young man who could not speak a word of English. I was fearful that I wouldn't be able to teach him. I got some of our more affluent parents to purchase him a device w/a translator and each day I noticed this kid's bright eyes, taking in everything that was said. He had a brilliant mathematical mind and I remember his first English words; "Eighteen!"

I had just given the kids a complex equation on the board as we were wrapping up a lesson. I was testing them w/something very difficult. They were all stumped, and Brian raised his hand in the air rather tentatively and when I called out his name, he said "Eighteen," which of course, was the correct answer. The entire class rose as one and gave him a standing ovation and believe me.......I was leading the way.

Human decency and compassion doesn't recognize race, but instead treats each person w/respect and dignity until they prove otherwise. Each person is an individual and lumping all members of a group together is unacceptable.

I hope that helps to answer your questions.

I am not against them. I just insist it be legally.


I am open to easing Visa requirements. I am also open to fast tracking illegals already here.

lol, sorry I absolutely don't believe this story. Never once in my entire life in a classroom - did a class of kids ever care enough about what was going on in a class room on a typical day of the week to care what the answer to a question was. Let alone, to have the entire class stand and give an ovation because someone got the answer right. lol

Good try tho, nice story.

Well it doesn't fit your agenda so nobody thought you would believe it to begin with.

What agenda is that? that vers tell the truth or not make something up to try to sway a point? Yes, that would be an agenda of mine.

Also, please show me anywhere where I have stated anything about the caravan or my feelings on it.

Me thinks once again you are making up things up.

So you're calling him a liar. Way to keep it classy.

I said I don't believe his story. That's my opinion.

Have you ever spent time in a HS or middle school classroom? Do you think a room full of kids hopped up on pre-pubescent hormones are going to give a standing slow clap a kid for getting the right answer on an equation? I don't buy it.

The story is the absolute truth, Pit.

And it was kind of a thing w/my classes. We rewarded great takes or accomplishments w/clapping. There were plenty of times when the kids rose to their feet.

Of course, I was the one who led it at the beginning, but the kids loved it. Building a positive community was huge to our successes in the classroom. Some people build others up while some try and tear them down.

Migrant caravan coordinator says demand for Mexico to provide buses has 'failed'

https://www.foxnews.com/world/migrant-ca...uses-has-failed

The leading migrant caravan trying to make its way to the United States border is admitting defeat after asking the Mexican government to provide dozens of buses to speed up the group's journey northward.

The setback comes days after caravan leaders asked for “safe and dignified” transport to Mexico City, a checkpoint along the way for a group that has been dwindling in size as members either apply for protected status in Mexico or drop out over fatigue exacerbated by the sweltering weather conditions they have been facing.

"The attempt to travel by bus failed," caravan coordinator Walter Cuello told the Associated Press Wednesday night.

It has been a tumultuous journey so far for the leading caravan, which is now estimated to contain around 4,000 people – down from a peak of more than 7,000.


The caravan crossed into Mexico from Guatemala around Oct. 19 and, at the start of this week, appeared to be pushing northward at a faster pace with the help of free rides being offered to them in trucks and other vehicles.

But the arduous nature of the trek – walking day by day to new towns and cities and sleeping on the streets – has been eating away at the migrants’ morale from the outset. The request for bus travel for all also indicates an increased sense of urgency amongst the caravan’s members to make it to the U.S. border – despite thousands of American troops awaiting them there and a steady drumbeat of warnings from President Trump and U.S. officials to turn around.

"Of the friends that I have been with, all want to go back," Hasiel Isamar Hernandez, a 28-year-old mother of three from Honduras, told the Associated Press days ago. The caravan originated in that country as many are trying to flee its pervasive poverty and violence.

Not all of the migrants that have abandoned the journey though are going back to Honduras. Mexican Interior Secretary Alfonso Navarrete Prida said about 2,300 of them so far have applied to stay in Mexico under a government plan, and hundreds more have accepted assisted repatriation.

Those still with the leading caravan appeared to be confused Thursday as to where it is heading next. It initially hit the road from Juchitan in southern Mexico before sunrise, hoping to cover ground before temperatures in the area pick up, where it is forecasted to be around 90 degrees later this afternoon.

A Fox News crew traveling with the caravan reports that it originally planned to go to Santa Maria Jalapa del Marques, a city about 35 miles west of Juchitan. But shortly after departing, the caravan's leaders changed the route to go north to the town of Matias Romero, in the direction of the coastal city of Veracruz, which lies on the Gulf of Mexico.

The switch suggests that once the caravan gets to Veracruz, it may split in half, with some of the caravan probably heading to a border crossing about 600 miles away in McAllen, Texas. The other half may travel more than double that length to Tijuana, just across the border from San Diego.

"What's going on right now? We are supposed to go that way -- that is a wrong way," Juan Jarquin, one of the migrants, told Fox News' William La Jeunesse. "I can't understand who is running the show."

Another migrant said he was "not sure" whether the caravan would go to Tijuana or McAllen.

Three more caravans are now behind them.

A second, smaller group of 1,000 or so migrants is more than 200 miles back. A third band of about 500 from El Salvador has made it to Guatemala, and a fourth group of about 700 set out from the Salvadoran capital Wednesday.

Mexico’s government so far has flip-flopped on how they plan to deal with the caravans.

The first two caravans were confronted by Mexican federal police at a bridge crossing along its border with Guatemala. The officers stopped them from walking en masse over the bridge – but didn’t prevent them from entering their country entirely. The migrants simply waded across the Suchiate River to get past the police, sometimes in their line of sight.

Stunning images have emerged this week capturing the second caravan moving across the river.

In the first week after the leading caravan got into Mexico, federal police sometimes enforced obscure safety rules, forcing them off paid mini-buses, citing insurance regulations, added the Associated Press. They also stopped some overloaded pickup trucks carrying migrants and forced them to get off.

But in recent days, officials from Mexico's immigrant protection agency have organized rides for straggling women and children as a humanitarian effort. And police have routinely stood by as migrants piled aboard freight trucks.

Also Wednesday, a Guatemalan woman gave birth to the first known caravan baby at a hospital in Juchitan. Mexico's governmental National Human Rights Commission said it had arranged for medical attention for the woman.

To get back to the discussion - and out of pitts gutter...

I agree that we have to systematically make it faster to become a citizen for those applying, and ease the process. It is almost 2019, and there is not logical reason it should take a good person who has been in the country years to become a citizen. That is just a downright shame.

There is a back load of ~ 200,000,000 applicants. About 75 to 80 % never go to their trial. There is a large percent of those who make it to trial who are not accepted. They need to halt it until they catch up and change the laws and provide a fair a swift process going forward it will in the end benefit all involved.

Catch up? Its only behind because we rely on a archaic system.

That maybe true, however again - that's because it takes 10 years from when they file to get a trial. In those 10 years, a lot of people move, a lot of people change states, a lot of people have children and circumstances change that they physically cannot. its a slighted statistic.

For instance - if you are legally to work. You are stuck with that employer. If you get fired, you are sent packing. If you find a new job, you have to reapply and wait for a new work visa. There are a lot of my members at my credit union that get fired or quit, and have to abruptly leave the country, and its a mess. They came here legally for work, we need to allow them a time period of say 3 months to find another means of gainful employment before we just kick them out.

In a personal experience, I have a close friend that married a US citizen. He is was born in Toluca (wonderful place to visit). They married IN Mexico, and chose to have their daughter born in Mexico because his daughter would have had citizenship right away to both. If she was born here, she would not have citizenship in Mexico. He has family there still, so it makes for traveling back and forth easier on them.

However, it took him until his daughter was 12 to get citizenship. he has worked here for 10+ years, contributed to society, came here legally and did it the right way. 12 years. That's a disgrace.

We can't even fix our own homeless problem as it is and keep taking in so many of other countries homeless.

You can't tell me beyond the shadow of a doubt that out of the 7000 people in the caravan all are seeking asylum?

Will they ALL be hard working law abiding citizens?

That there is no criminal element infused with them.

That they will all go through the port of entry.

At some point you have to stop putting bandages on and stop and fix the problem.

200 mil? can you back those numbers with real data or did you just pull that out of your butt?

I found this.

http://trac.syr.edu/phptools/immigration/court_backlog/

I don't doubt your honesty. We've gone round and round in the past and had many disagreements. But I've never questioned your honesty.

And if you noticed, the one who accused you claims I'm the one who went in the gutter. You couldn't make crap like that up if you tried.

Trump announces plan to deny asylum-seekers who don't show up at ports of entry, in latest major immigration policy shift

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-caravan-remarks-at-the-white-house

President Trump announced in a lengthy speech at the White House on Thursday afternoon that, in response to what he called the "crisis at our southern border" and a surge of fraudulent asylum claims, his administration will require asylum-seekers to "lawfully present themselves" at a port of entry.

The move appeared designed to prevent many members of the leading Central American migrant caravan -- which now numbers approximately 4,000, down from a high of 7,200 -- to make asylum claims if and when they reach the U.S. border. Asylum claims made by migrants caught crossing the border illegally would seemingly be summarily denied under Trump's proposal.

The asylum clause of the Immigration and Nationality Act says that anyone who arrives to the U.S. may apply for asylum based on a well-founded fear of persecution, and Trump's decision was likely to prompt immediate federal court challenges.

In his remarks, Trump called the thousands of migrants in the approaching caravans from Central America "not legitimate asylum-seekers" because most of them have not decided to remain in Mexico and pursue asylum there. "Asylum is not a program for people living in poverty," he said.

The president also issued something of a warning to members of the caravan, including those who reportedly threw rocks at members of the Mexican police this week.

"We will consider that a firearm," Trump said. "We will consider that the maximum we can consider that, because they're throwing rocks viciously and violently. .... We're not going to put up with that. They want to throw rocks at our military, our military fights back. I told them to consider it a rifle. When they throw rocks, like they did at the Mexico military and police, I said, consider it a rifle."

Asked by a reporter to clarify if U.S. troops might fire on the caravan, Trump responded, "I hope not, I hope not -- but it's the military."

The president's statement marked his latest major policy pronouncement on illegal immigration with just days to go before the Nov. 6 midterm elections, following his decision to send thousands of troops to the U.S. border and his push to end birthright citizenship, which he said could be accomplished by executive order.

Trump said Thursday he would issue a "comprehensive" executive order next week on immigration matters, including his asylum plan.

"If these caravans are allowed into our country, only bigger and more emboldened caravans will follow -- and you see that's what's happening now," Trump said.

In a statement, Omar Jadwat, the director of the ACLU’s Immigrants’ Rights Project, condemned the president's announcement.

"If he plans at some point to prohibit people from applying for asylum between the ports of entry, that plan is illegal," Jadwat said. "What is clear from the timing and vague nature of today’s remarks is that he is simply trying to inflame his base in the final run-up to the midterms.”

Trump and other administration officials have long encouraged those seeking asylum to come through legal ports of entry. However, many migrants may be unaware of that guidance, and official border crossings have grown increasingly clogged.

Immigration officials have turned away asylum-seekers at ports of entry citing overcrowding, telling them to return at a later date. Backlogs have grown especially bad in recent months at crossings in California, Arizona and Texas, with people generally waiting five weeks to claim asylum at San Diego's main crossing and sleeping out in the open for days at a time.

Migrants who cross illegally are generally arrested and often seek asylum or some other form of protection. Claims have spiked since 2010, and there is currently a backlog of more than 800,000 cases pending in immigration court.

Detention facilities are also nearly at their maximum capacity; Trump on Thursday said more are being constructed, and that illegal immigrants will be held in "massive cities of tents."

Administration officials have railed against what they say are loopholes designed to encourage people, especially from Central America, to come to the U.S. and claim asylum. On Thursday, Trump said human trafficking -- in which "the lowest scum on Earth ... steal children" -- has hit unprecedented levels, in part because of lax asylum policies.

"We will not allow our generosity to be abused by those who would break our laws, defy our rules, violate our borders, break into our country illegally -- we won't allow it," Trump said. "Mass uncontrolled immigration is especially unfair to the many wonderful law-abiding immigrants already living here, who followed the rules and waited their turn."

Once illegal immigrants apply for asylum, even if their claims are fraudulent, they previously have been allowed into the U.S. pending the adjudication of their asylum claims -- which require a credible fear of imminent persecution based on a limited number of factors, such as political or religious belief, in order to be upheld.

"They never show up at the trials," Trump said, referring to people who claim asylum and then are released into the country. "They never come back, they're never seen again."

Generally, most asylum claims often fail to meet this high legal standard after they are reviewed by aslyum judges, and only about 20 percent of applicants are approved.

Trump's comments came hours after the leading caravan trying to make its way to the U.S. border failed in its efforts to convince the Mexican government to offer dozens of buses to speed up their journey northward.

On Thursday, Trump again characterized the caravan as an "invasion" that has "overrun the Mexican police -- and hurt, badly, Mexican soldiers. ... They're wasting their time. They should turn back now."

The caravan initially totaled more than 7,000 people, but its numbers have dwindled as thousands have either applied for asylum in Mexico or returned to Honduras.

A second, smaller group of 1,000 or so migrants is more than 200 miles back. A third band of about 500 from El Salvador has made it to Guatemala, and a fourth group of about 700 set out from the Salvadoran capital Wednesday.

At a rally Wednesday in Fort Myers, Fla., Trump charged that the leading incoming caravan represents a security threat. "They got a lot of rough people in those caravans -- they are not angels. They are not," he said.

Trump has said that up to 15,000 U.S. troops could be deployed to the border if the caravan continues its approach. The Pentagon noted Wednesday afternoon that its initial estimate was for 7,000 troops at the border.

The president also has sparred with some in his own party, including outgoing House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., over Trump's proposal to end birthright citizenship, which allows children of illegal immigrants to automatically become U.S. citizens if born within the country's borders.

"Illegal aliens are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States," Trump said to applause at Wednesday's rally, to chants of "U-S-A!"

That comment was significant because the 14th Amendment reads: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."

Some Republicans are advancing the theory that illegal immigrants are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the U.S. within the meaning of that provision, which would give Congress the legal daylight to pass a law codifying Trump's view, modifying the current Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA) of 1952 and ending birthright citizenship.

While an 1898 Supreme Court case appears contrary to that view, the issue has not been tested in the courts in modern times, and Republicans are newly emboldened by the 5-4 conservative majority on the Supreme Court.

Still, Trump's suggestion that he could legally bypass Congress and simply issue a unilateral executive order to enact his proposed change was "obviously" incorrect, Ryan said this week.

That prompted Trump to fire back on Twitter and charge that Ryan "knows nothing about the issue." The president also said Ryan should "focus on holding the Majority" -- a nod to polls showing that Republicans face tough odds to retain control of the House after the Nov. 6 midterm elections.

rump also followed up with a clip of a 1993 speech from former Nevada Democratic Sen. Harry Reid, in which he claimed that "no sane country" would have birthright citizenship. Reid reversed his position in 1999, under pressure from union groups.

It's 4000 not 7000

AMLO’s new immigration chief vows kinder attitude toward migrants
Immigration institute must be 'more protective, caring and humane'
Thursday, November 1, 2018
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SHARES
North of the border the United States government is warning that its armed forces will fire on migrants who throw rocks at them, but in Mexico a kinder and gentler approach is coming.

The future chief of the National Immigration Institute (INM) has vowed that Central American migrants will receive kinder attention during the administration of the incoming federal government.

Tonatiuh Guillén told the newspaper Reforma that he would reform the INM so that it is fully respectful of migrants’ human rights.



The current government’s decision to send the Federal Police to Mexico’s southern border to try to contain the migrant caravans was a “serious mistake,” he said, citing their clash with the second migrant caravan, in which a Honduran man was killed as evidence of his claim.

“. . . [The presence of police] put girls, boys, women and all the people who were on the border bridge at risk, making the situation tenser and more difficult . . .” Guillén said.

“. . . Another strategy should have been used, a much kinder and more receptive one . . . [the situation] would have ended in a better, more humane and more civilized way . . .”

The social sciences academic and former head of the College of the Northern Border, who was announced this week as the new INM chief, said that under a Andrés Manuel López Obrador presidency migrants won’t be stigmatized nor will their personal situations be ignored.

“We have to assume that the flow [of migrants] coming from Central America, and especially Honduras, are people who have been forced to leave their country for reasons such as violence, poverty and exclusion and that this situation is going to continue at least in the medium and short term,” Guillén said.



He added that INM detention centers will be converted into spaces that attend to the needs of migrants as part of a reform intended to address frequent complaints filed with the National Human Rights Commission (CNDH) against the immigration institute.

“There must be a complete reconceptualization of the centers, we need to carry out a very thorough review of what they are [and] what their purpose is . . .” Guillén said.

“We have to make the [immigration] institute much more protective, caring and humane.”

U.S. President Trump said in a speech this week that migrants throwing rocks will be treated as armed.

“They want to throw rocks at our military, our military fights back. We’ll consider — and I told them — consider it a rifle. When they throw rocks like they did at the Mexico military and police, I say consider it a rifle.”

Trump has ordered 5,200 troops to the border to stop the caravans of migrants heading that way, and has suggested he might increase the number to 15,000. He said all migrants arrested at the border will be detained and held in “massive cities of tents.”

Source: Reforma (sp)

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/new-immigration-chief-vows-kinder-attitude/

How big is the group?

It is hard to say exactly, but the caravan has grown rapidly in size as it has moved north.

A spokesman for the United Nations said more than 7,000 people had joined the group as of 22 October, citing estimates from the International Organisation for Migration.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45951782

New Migrant Caravans Trek North, Ignoring Political Repercussions


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/31/world/americas/migrant-caravans-border-mexico-usa.html

Oct. 31, 2018

Leer en español

TAPACHULA, Mexico — It was only last week that a caravan with thousands of Central American migrants hunkered down for the night here in Tapachula, in southern Mexico.

Days later, a new group numbering in the hundreds arrived, fanning out across the central plaza and surrounding sidewalks.

Now, two more caravans are on their way, as well.

j/c:

Here is what kills me about this thread, this forum, and this board.

Some dude asks a question as to why people would want to migrate to the USA. I give real life stories of why other immigrants have entered this country. I've met them. I have talked to them. I have taught their children.

Yet, not one freaking person on this entire board "liked" that post even though it was factual and logical. Then, some dude comes on here and calls me a liar. Pit defends me and that same poster says something like "getting back on topic and out of Pit's gutter."

And no one calls him out? In fact, Vambo actually "liked" his posts.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me think this board is hopeless.

I am going to say this again. Every freaking word I spoke in that previous post was the Honest to God truth and I do not like being called a liar.

Y'all going to start self-policing this board or let this crap continue?

Spread the HATE!

What?

I relayed a true story that I felt was inspirational. Why is that hateful?

And isn't it wrong to "like" your own post?

It's a Pavlovian experiment and it's getting good results.

Why do you care?

Your story sounds like something from some cheap Disney channel movie.

Amazing.

Operation Faithful Patriot: 1st 100 US troops arrive to serve at border, defense official says

https://www.foxnews.com/us/operation-fai...e-official-says

he first 100 active-duty troops have arrived at the U.S.-Mexican border to provide support for Border Patrol agents as a caravan of migrants slowly makes its way northward from Central America, a Defense Department official told Fox News on Thursday evening.

The troops are doing initial assessments at the port of entry in McAllen, Texas. The official said there are about 2,600 troops now at staging bases, largely in Texas, with several thousand more expected to flow in through the weekend and move into California and Arizona.

The Pentagon said more than 7,000 active-duty troops are being sent to the southern border, with more possible.

President Trump has said the number could reach 15,000.

Trump has drawn a hard line on immigration just ahead of the midterm elections.

Last week, officials indicated that 800 to 1,000 troops might be sent. On Monday, they announced that about 5,200 were being deployed. The next day, an Air Force general rejected a news report putting the figure at up to 14,000.

The troops going to the border areas of Texas, Arizona and California are a small fraction of the nation's roughly 1.3 million active-duty service members, and the mission is set to last only 45 days.

Gen. Terrence O’Shaughnessy, who as head of U.S. Northern Command is leading the military operation, dubbed “Operation Faithful Patriot,” has argued that the caravan is a potential threat, although he has not fully defined the nature of that threat.

Migrants from Central America, including many families and hundreds of children, are slowly moving north, though they remain hundreds of miles from the border. One group got into a violent confrontation with Mexican police at the border with Guatemala, throwing rocks.

“I think what we have seen is we’ve seen clearly an organization at a higher level than we’ve seen before,” O’Shaughnessy said. “We’ve seen violence coming out of the caravan and we’ve seen as they’ve passed other international borders, we’ve seen them behave in a nature that has not been what we’ve seen in the past.”

Trump said he told the military mobilizing at the border that if migrants try to throw rocks at soldiers, they should act as though the rocks are “rifles.”

Trump made the comments Thursday in a speech on immigration. He promised an executive order sometime next week that would ban migrants from claiming asylum if they cross the border illegally, and would set up vast tent cities that would hold anyone coming over the border.

U.S. immigration laws say migrants seeking asylum can do so no matter how they arrive at the U.S.

It is amazing. You were able to teach an illegal immigrant, that spoke no english, by getting some affluent students parents to buy a translator machine.............cause the school just put a non english speaking student in your class, cause, you know, a kid that doesn't speak the language should be put in that spot. And you did it! And the illegal immigrant....Brian I believe you said his name was, excelled, all because of you. Brian, the illegal immigrants kid, is now.................? A billionaire, right?

Oh Ver’s, in the trump era that’s a power play to like yourself, a lot, like no one ever has.

And you’re hateful in Vambo’s eyes because you disagree with him.

And crickets ... Rambo the Russian bot. I thought it was against the rules to post these kind of stats that are false or without a link? Guess not to some. Typical.

I can agree with that. The right doesn't want them here at all because it gives the left votes. The left wants them here simply for votes. Until both parties realize that maybe we should looking at things like this not as a political avenue, good people are going to be stuck as pawns.

I would contend that if we fix the process for the people doing it the right way, we would have less of the 4-5K people just heading for the border.

Either, way - good talk and back and forth.

I don't know why everyone assumes they'll vote left. You're talking about Conservative Catholics who care the most about family. Reagans and the Bushes used to love outreaching to Hispanics.

The majority of the Hispanic vote is democrat. Not all do, absolutely not - but most do.