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Y'all really think that Kitchens installed a brand new offense in 2 weeks, especially during the middle of the season? LMAO
Hue knows this offense, so honestly I expect the Bengals D to have their best day this season. I hope I'm wrong but reality says otherwise
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What I do believe is that nobody has any REAL secrets from the next guy in this league. Guys have tendencies and video reveals it all. The best you can hope for is a wrinkle or two that gives you an advantage until your opponent adjusts. Still all boils down to execution and and maybe a good, timely coaching decision.
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The questions for the Browns is "What can Hue Jackson tell Cinci about the Browns that they don't already know?" and "How can we use what Hue knows, and is certainly telling them, against them?". Seems to me it could become a double-edged sword cutting in our favor if we can figure out how to exploit it.
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Y'all really think that Kitchens installed a brand new offense in 2 weeks, especially during the middle of the season? LMAO
Hue knows this offense, so honestly I expect the Bengals D to have their best day this season. I hope I'm wrong but reality says otherwise It's not a "new" offense, but it is definitely different. Plays are called differently, in different situations. I am sure that play calls are changed on a week by week basis, so that other teams don't decipher what the plays are. I don't recall much wishbone under Hue/Haley either. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Anything Hue tells them, could easily be learned from film study. He was fired, and he has the right to work for anybody he wants. IMO, most knew Lewis would eventually hire him, they are close friends.
What will be interesting, and very telling about Hue the person, is if the Bengals beat us, he appears in the press with anything at all to say about it. IMO, that would be the most classless thing he could do.
Time will tell, because he does like to toot his own horn. I just hope he remains in the background for this game, and doesn't go to the press saying something stupid.
On another thought, reading some of the quotes from players since he left, I'm not so sure he was as beloved by the players as many thought. I mena, I haven't seen one player come out and try to defend him after the firing. That seems a little odd to me. Most comments have been about how things seem better in the locker room and a renewed desire seems to have risen. Makes me wonder.
RIP, Jim
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Shut-up Pete. I never liked you anyway!
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Well really three games winning and think he will never at all be a head coach with that kind of record ever again. Unless there is a miracle which I think not.
June Summertime Fun and Love
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Hue didn't know this offense when he was the HC/OC and calling the plays. Hence why we were 1-31 with Hue in that spot.
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Y'all really think that Kitchens installed a brand new offense in 2 weeks, especially during the middle of the season? LMAO
Hue knows this offense, so honestly I expect the Bengals D to have their best day this season. I hope I'm wrong but reality says otherwise It's not a "new" offense, but it is definitely different. Plays are called differently, in different situations. I am sure that play calls are changed on a week by week basis, so that other teams don't decipher what the plays are. I don't recall much wishbone under Hue/Haley either. Hue might know a good deal about the offense ... but it looks wildly different with Kitchens than it did with Haley - so who knows if that is going to a part of the playbook not previously worked on before? IDK. As I understand it - only a portion of the playbook is game planned for in any given one week. There might be some staples - but as others have said, once teams have game tape the O has to adjust or add wrinkles. I think with the off week coming we have plenty of time to make enough changes, wrinkles or a handful of outright new plays to counter Hue's influence. I think the added fury / incentive / motivation for players who will be playing against the head coach that went out and told the world he couldn't run his offense because the players weren't good enough .... that should be a much bigger influencer in my opinion.
Last edited by mgh888; 11/13/18 08:14 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Hue didn't know this offense when he was the HC/OC and calling the plays. Hence why we were 1-31 with Hue in that spot. Hue knew his offense. Don't think otherwise. Hue's problem is he didn't know how to not be a coordinator. We have seen a big shift in Greg Williams the coordinator to Greg Williams the head coach. It's two different jobs. One is to be a rah-rah guy, pump up the troops. Become a friend to some of the guys. The other is to stand back, look at the big picture and make bigger decisions. Coordinator is all about here and now. Head coach is more towards a few games or years down the road. It's like in the Army. Some commanders are great tacticians. Patton was a great tactician. He could win the field of battle. Some are great strategists. Ike could set the strategy to win the war.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Hue knows offense. but he had one of the worst QB rooms of all time and a WR core that was equally bad.
how quickly people forget the garbage roster Sashi provided Hue his 1st 2 yrs.
if his kicker made fg's he might still be here.
but hes in a happier place and the Browns are moving foward progressing
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For the most part my statement was being sarcastic. But I will say I watched games after game the first two years of Hue make zero adjustments at halftime and the Browns look completely inept on offense in the second halves of games. And Haley was worse its like he was trying to have the team looking bad with the intent of getting Hue fired. I liked Hue, after he was fired I felt that maybe he got a raw deal but now that he is with the enemy I will severely dislike him along with all Steelers, Ravens and Bengals.
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Hue knows offense. but he had one of the worst QB rooms of all time and a WR core that was equally bad.
how quickly people forget the garbage roster Sashi provided Hue his 1st 2 yrs.
if his kicker made fg's he might still be here.
but hes in a happier place and the Browns are moving foward progressing Give Bill B a 1 armed QB, 5 boy scouts for a wr corps, a rb with one leg shorter than another and he still would win 4 games with them. There are many teams in history with worse rosters that won more games than zero. GW was thrown into the role and already has a better winning percentage than Hue had with the exact same roster. The "lack of talent" excuse is getting stretched thinner than a piece of government cheese in the great depression. As bad as the hate is on one side, the excuses are worse. In 2 weeks, the stupid penalties, stupid play calling, boneheaded mistakes, bad clock management, and press conferences blaming everyone but the HC have disappeared. Hue earned his firing. Heck, Baker extended his time by a few weeks by his play once he got in the game. Hue actually earned two firings in his time here and was only saved by the reluctance of the thief to let fans rightfully complain about the revolving door at HC again. I'm hoping that all this Hue talk dies down in two weeks after Hue throws someone in Cincy under the bus for their loss against us.
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Shut-up Pete. I never liked you anyway! Bastid.... 
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Hue didn't know this offense when he was the HC/OC and calling the plays. Hence why we were 1-31 with Hue in that spot. It's hard to take a 1-31 coach serious. Especially when your excuse is that you don't have good players, you know, the very people who are supposed to help you win. He rode that horse hard. Why would anyone play hard for someone who says to your face how well you're doing only to turn their back and tell everyone else he's losing because he doesn't have good players. Astonishing. And I don't know what is more astonishing, how bad Hue was as a head coach or the amount of people who are still trying to defend someone who completely embarrassed their football team...
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“I have a great comfort level with Hue and his ability to assist me with the day-to-day responsibilities on defense, including analyzing our opponents and helping me on game days with the players and defensive coaches,” Lewis said.
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“I have a great comfort level with Hue and his ability to assist me with the day-to-day responsibilities on defense, including analyzing our opponents and helping me on game days with the players and defensive coaches,” Lewis said. Assist with the defense? That's ... surprising.
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Don't overthink it. Offense doing what they do best comes first regardless of defense within limits. Make the defense perform. Pound the rock. Move the sticks. Tackle. All the things he didn't manage here. Will he be suddenly different Hue 3.0? Maybe.
This game won't boil down to him and his top secret Jedi offensive ability. Just outdo him.
We need a few wins. I like our chances.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Y'all really think that Kitchens installed a brand new offense in 2 weeks, especially during the middle of the season? LMAO
Hue knows this offense, so honestly I expect the Bengals D to have their best day this season. I hope I'm wrong but reality says otherwise Nobody thinks that for real... What I think is that you can have an offense, but it's how you call it during the game that makes the difference. Kitch doesn't seem to be afraid to call plays that might appear wacko... He's simply not afraid to let Baker be Baker. I think Haley and Jackson tried to protect him more than Kitch does.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Assist with the defense? That's ... surprising. Not really. He can hand the defense our playbook, and teach them the play calls as well. He has two weeks to prepare them to know EXACTLY which play's we are going to run on offense.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Y'all really think that Kitchens installed a brand new offense in 2 weeks, especially during the middle of the season? LMAO
Hue knows this offense, so honestly I expect the Bengals D to have their best day this season. I hope I'm wrong but reality says otherwise Execution will trump the playcall any day and all day. I don't care if you tell the Defense THE EXACT PLAY you are running. If you execute that play better then they execute their defense - you win. If a lineman doesn't block the play will not succeed. If a WR doesn't get off a jam, the play will not succeed. If they hold their blocks, it will. If the Wr slips the jam, it will. EXECUTION is what matters more.
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And I don't know what is more astonishing, how bad Hue was as a head coach or the amount of people who are still trying to defend someone who completely embarrassed their football team...
+1000
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Assist with the defense? That's ... surprising. Not really. He can hand the defense our playbook, and teach them the play calls as well. He has two weeks to prepare them to know EXACTLY which play's we are going to run on offense. This has been mentioned already by a couple posters, but I'll go ahead and reiterate... Hue isn't going to go in there and blow their mind with inside info on our offense. At this point, they can get almost everything they want from film study. Play calls would be my only worry... but that worry shouldn't hold a candle to the worry of them having much more established talent than we do. Lastly, regarding the conspiracy theory regarding Hue tossing outrageous picks to the Bengals for questionable QB pickups.... it is simply a theory that I'm throwing around. Quite frankly, this whole thing didn't end up affecting us at all, so I can't really summon all that much care on the topic. It is simply an interesting trend. To be fair (and I'll mention it now) Carson Palmer ended up being worth the price (just not for the Raiders... he ended up being more than serviceable for the Cardinals for a couple years). That said, he tried to make a ridiculous trade for AJ, a QB that is nowhere near worth the price he tried to pay and who is now unemployed (he got cut by the Bills who kept Allen and Peterman). He tried to make that trade at the same time as a popular theory had him getting canned at the end of the season. How people can dismiss that as "conspiracy theory" and attack someone (like me) who simply points out a potential trend seems kinda silly. I'll end with this. I liked Hue Jackson (for the most part) and thought he could eventually get it done here. I do not like that he got fired, mostly because I absolutely abhor the idea of resetting everything and pulling the carpet out from under the young base of talent we've put in place. I wish him well, but I'm starting to change my tune on this the more he does these stupid "woe is me" interviews on ESPN, not to mention the quick return to Cinci and some of the speculation that has invited.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I don't think he is allowed to have our play book.
Although in this digital era its so easy to have that in your computer and flash drive and take that flash drive with you.
Besided it was mostly his playbook anyways. Not sure how much of the new playbook was all Haley or a combo of both???
What I do know is that Kitchens is already changing it as he added the 3 RB look and is making plays off of it as we speak.
The only thing that I wanted from the Hue play book was the TWO OTs spread out wide with the FB and TE or in this case HBack and TE on the LOS out wide with X and Z WRs in the backfield on both sides and then the OTs equal distance from the X,Z WR. RB (duke) goes to the slot and just OGs and C on the los. I love this and under Hue we would come out in that look and then go back to the normal look instead of running plays from it. But it is a look that Baker can have so much fun with. Note Hue Jackson stole this set up from DaBoll of Mangini OC era.
Who I always thought was a good OC.
But I have around 20 plays drawn up with this formation that I utilized...smh when It came time to use it, my freaking Center spazzed out and starting snapping the shot gun over the QBs head...we got 15 yards on the first screen to the Z WR and then snap over the head the next 4-5 times we set up...man that hurt. But I love that formation...hope we keep it but I don't know if Kitchen's has it if this was all Haley's play book and not Hue's.
Hue is a good Coach, he is not a super star HC but he is a good coach.
The only thing I don't like was that there were some announcers, forgot who but top guys stating that Hue was ready to come back to Cincy if/when he got fired from the Browns.
That is the only thing that bothers me.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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j/c,
How does that old saying go?
If you [Hue] can't beat them, then join them.
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And in todays era, it is easy to erase everything in that flash drive. Enter a serial number and delete.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Assist with the defense? That's ... surprising. Not really. He can hand the defense our playbook, and teach them the play calls as well. He has two weeks to prepare them to know EXACTLY which play's we are going to run on offense. This has been mentioned already by a couple posters, but I'll go ahead and reiterate... Hue isn't going to go in there and blow their mind with inside info on our offense. At this point, they can get almost everything they want from film study. Play calls would be my only worry... but that worry shouldn't hold a candle to the worry of them having much more established talent than we do. Lastly, regarding the conspiracy theory regarding Hue tossing outrageous picks to the Bengals for questionable QB pickups.... it is simply a theory that I'm throwing around. Quite frankly, this whole thing didn't end up affecting us at all, so I can't really summon all that much care on the topic. It is simply an interesting trend. To be fair (and I'll mention it now) Carson Palmer ended up being worth the price (just not for the Raiders... he ended up being more than serviceable for the Cardinals for a couple years). That said, he tried to make a ridiculous trade for AJ, a QB that is nowhere near worth the price he tried to pay and who is now unemployed (he got cut by the Bills who kept Allen and Peterman). He tried to make that trade at the same time as a popular theory had him getting canned at the end of the season. How people can dismiss that as "conspiracy theory" and attack someone (like me) who simply points out a potential trend seems kinda silly. I'll end with this. I liked Hue Jackson (for the most part) and thought he could eventually get it done here. I do not like that he got fired, mostly because I absolutely abhor the idea of resetting everything and pulling the carpet out from under the young base of talent we've put in place. I wish him well, but I'm starting to change my tune on this the more he does these stupid "woe is me" interviews on ESPN, not to mention the quick return to Cinci and some of the speculation that has invited. I wouldn't really call the picks for QBs thing a conspiracy theory-- that isn't the word or phrase I'd use. It's a reasonable conversation to have given the bizarre attempt to trade a second and third round pick for AJ McCarron and Hue going back and forth to the Bengals over the years. That said, I think it was more of a short-sighted panic attempt than it was anything intentional to gift picks to the Bengals.
Last edited by Haus; 11/14/18 11:38 AM.
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We had certain tendencies under Hue/Haley, but those tendencies have changed under Kitchens.
When Baker gets to the line, it appears that he can make a change to one play oer the other. at the LOS. He either goes with the play called, om the snap count called, or changes to the 2nd play. He's not up there spouting jargon at the LOS .... but instead goes with the play called, or the "kill, kill, kill" play.
Hue can give insight into what certain formations might mean, but we appear to have changed up our tendencies as well as plays off of certain formations, under Kitchens.
Earlier in the season, a defense said that they knew what we were running based on our formations. I don't think it's quite as obvious under Kitchens, at least thus far.
I think that Hue will be helpful to Lewis in breaking down opponents, and giving his insights. He is a quality offensive mind, even if he allowed himself to get buried under the head coach job here.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't think he is allowed to have our play book. I don't believe I was ever allowed to have one either but I do from one season, along with printed up game plans for offense, defense, and special teams from some games, and the videos used to study other teams tendencies. BTW The playbook form this year was Haley's but Hue did have a copy
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Hue wasn't competent his entire tenure here. I ain't gonna worry about him now...
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I would imagine that any tablets etc. the team uses would have the USB capability disabled. Not only to prevent theft but it is easy to inadvertently download viruses etc. from a flash drive. I was in Iraq working and after 1 or 2 viruses effected the computers USB drives where banned. To the point of being in serious hot water if one was found in your desk drawer etc.
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It's about execution anyway... I think there's a video from this year where either Cam or Rivers was barking out what they were going to run and the defense still could not stop them.
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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Do you genuinely think we don’t leverage analytics as part of the process? I work in a related field and it’s fascinating the insights you can get, even just small tendencies, patterns that can contribute to decision making. I find the whole area fascinating. It’s no substitute for the eye test but it can also tell you so much more. It’s part of building a picture not replacing the picture.
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Gee, its almost like Hue wanted to trade away a lot of picks to Cincy for a bad backup QB, so he could go coach there in a year.....
I am so happy we are done with this clown. I was wondering how long that would take .... shocked it took this long for someone to bring it up ... *LOL* ... This conversation has me thinking. At the time of his hiring, Hue was widely regarded as a top HC candidate, a coup for the Browns. He was, at that time, the heir apparent for Lewis in Cincy. He comes to Cleveland compiles the worst HC record ever and is fired. Now he has been rehired by Cincy and possibly reclaims the heir apparent role. Are the Browns the victim of a long con? Sashi Brown was the hero we needed, not the hero we deserved ..
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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A note on the information on tablets. This is in my professional arena.
If you can see it, you can copy it. If a unit can take new data in, then that data can be copied off.
It can be made slightly more difficult, so that the vast majority of people can not do it, but all they have to do is find a guy like me, pay a reasonable fee, and it's a piece of cake.
Weekly game plans can be protected, largely from an available time standpoint, and coaches educated and not letting that thing get more than one foot away from them at all times.
Those game plans represent a small, selected portion of the much larger playbook. If there is intelligent design involved, which there sometimes isn't, there will be multiple plays from identical formations, which will prevent a defense from countering based on formation alone.
For instance, that play where Hilliard threw the interception? Do it again, same formation, same motion, but this time he fakes the pass and runs the ball. Or throws it to someone else, but ONLY if they are very, very close and WIDE, and I mean W I D E , open.
Kitchens has already added new wrinkles in a short period of time. If I were him, against the Bengals, I would line up in formations which are known to Hue to have only a few, specific options, and I would design variations designed to take advantage of a defense positioning itself to stop the options that Hue knows about.
Even better would be to run what they know is coming and beat them anyway. Which I think we can, at least some of the time. The variations mentioned above only need to be run a few times to gain that split second of indecision.
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And on a lighter note and it sounds like the beginning of a good joke.
Wearing my Orange Vintage Field Hat I walked into Kroger's in Cincy yesterday. Hey we won!
In front of me was a guy I knew from back in the day wearing a Ratbirds Knit cap. W/ him was his Wife wearing a Bengrrs Coat.
We all growled at each other, high-fived and started laughing.
She said "I see Hue is back here again. Things are looking up!"
and we started laughing harder.
Mr Ratbird then said "Let's meet here in a month and see how that works out for you..."
Well I guess we'll see a bit sooner.
We're meeting for the Ravens/Bengals Game Sunday.
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Yeah, obviously you want to use the same/similar formations to Hue .. but add wrinkles/counters.
Line up in the RPO with the zone give/TE up the seem action ... but run something different, etc
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,921
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,921 |
kinda funny how when analytics was introduced with the prior regime everyone was saying how genius was the front office was but now that Hue is taking that idea to Cincy its a,joke.
Browns win a game all of a sudden the franchise can do no wrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
And in todays era, it is easy to erase everything in that flash drive. Enter a serial number and delete. 
I was happy that I knew what a flash drive was...thanks to TV action shows...lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns fire Hue Jackson Part Two
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