DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum John Dorsey

We have played well with most of the teams we have faced. Given the schedule, the shake up, new coaching, and injuries, we have fought through a bunch. I am becoming a Dorsey fan and hope to see a great draft.

Suddenly we are exciting to watch again. Just like the Buckeyes!

Exciting isn't the way I would put it, but I like your enthusiasm.

Cleveland Browns: Talking to myself about John Dorsey, coaches and messages -- Terry Pluto

Updated Nov 16; Posted 6:01 AM


By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer tpluto@plaind.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Talking to myself during the Browns bye week:

QUESTION: So what did we learn during John Dorsey’s press conference about his plans for a new coach?

ANSWER: Nothing.

Q: Nothing?

A: He plans to interview interim coach Gregg Williams. No surprise there. He owes it to Williams, who is helping the Browns and Dorsey out of the Hue Jackson/Todd Haley mess.

Q: Do you think Williams can get the job?

A: I doubt it. If the Browns finish extremely strong...something like 4-2 in the final six games...then he has a shot. Otherwise, I believe Dorsey will shop around. At least three times, he called the chance to coach the Browns “extremely attractive.” As I wrote earlier in the week, it appears to be a good job.

Q: Dorsey didn’t say anything about the search?

A: He’s not using a search firm. He wants a “man of character...a man who can lead young men...a man who has a high football acumen.”

Q: Sounds good, but isn’t that obvious?

A: Yes. There’s not a lot to dwell on based on Dorsey’s comments. He mentioned how he kept his choice for the No. 1 pick a secret for so long – he’ll do the same when it comes to interviewing and picking a coach. Dorsey kept the media and the NFL guessing for a long time before word leaked about a day before the draft that Baker Mayfield was headed to Cleveland.

Q: What was Dorsey saying?

A: He’s not interested in losing games simply to gain a higher draft position. In fact, he has been concerned all year that too many losses could have a negative impact on Mayfield and the other young players. As Dorsey said, “It’s about winning, you guys.”

Q: Isn’t that obvious?

A: The team was 1-31 the previous two seasons...4-44 over three years. That can destroy players emotionally. While owner Jimmy Haslam talked about “internal discord” when firing head coach Hue Jackson and offensive coordinator Todd Haley, losing also was a factor.

Q: Isn’t that also obvious?

A: It’s a little deeper. The Browns were 1-3-1 in games decided by three or fewer points this season. Under Jackson, the record was 2-10-1 in games decided by three or fewer points. Some of that was a failure in coaching, and Dorsey knows it – although he never said it.

Q: Why do you think that?

A: At the press conference, I asked Dorsey if the “internal discord” issues have improved. Dorsey said: “Gregg has done a nice job in terms of having the team focused on the task at hand...winning. He has put some discipline in there. He has reduced the number of penalties.”

Q: Meaning what?

A: Without saying a word about Jackson’s regime, Dorsey stressed the “discipline” brought in by Williams. He made a reference to that a few other times in interviews. He also said new offensive coordinator Freddie Kitchens “put together a game plan and then on game day, they actually executed it.”

Q: The team is 3-6-1. What’s the difference between them being something like 4-11-1 and 6-9-1 at the end of the year? No playoffs, right?

A: I also asked him about expectations for the rest of the season, and he said, “Emphasize the winning...have players begin to develop and end the season strong...let’s be competitive in each and every game.”

Q: Doesn’t every general manager of a losing team say that during the bye week?

A: Of course, but I believe Dorsey really means it. I sense he is extremely disappointed by the team’s record at this point, thinking they should be at least 5-5. He had four big winning seasons in Kansas City. His teams have been to the playoffs 19 times in 26 years in the NFL as a scout/front office person. He hates all this losing.

Q: So the record led to Jackson’s departure?

A: Dorsey didn’t like how the team looked on the field in terms of preparation. He was very effusive in his praise of Kitchens and the new game plans for Mayfield and the offense: “Freddie has done a heckuva job." I believe Dorsey was sick of losing close games.

Q: What else did Dorsey talk about?

A: He mentioned, “Let’s see if we can put together some back-to-back wins.” The team hasn’t won two in a row since 2014! That was four years ago! The Browns have lost 20 consecutive road games. He wants streaks like that to end – and for young players such as Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward, Nick Chubb and Mayfield not to have to carry the burden of a losing history around.

Q: But what about a coach?

A: I keep hearing names such as Kansas State’s Matt Campbell and Oklahoma’s Lincoln Riley. This is pure guesswork on my part – but I doubt he’d turn the team over to a young college coach with no NFL experience. The three main coaches Dorsey has worked with are Mike Holmgren, Mike Sherman and Mike McCarty in Green Bay and Andy Reid in Kansas City.

Q: Meaning what?

A: I see him looking in the NFL ranks. Maybe John Harbaugh, assuming he is fired by Baltimore at the end of the season. Kansas City special teams coach Dave Toub is intriguing. I’m sure there are others. But I think NFL experience when I think of Dorsey and the coaching search.

Q: What about Mayfield?

A: It’s clear Dorsey nailed the right quarterback in the draft. But he said something every interesting: “The offensive coordinator put the quarterback in position to do the things he does best in terms of getting the ball out quickly, taking the stress off the offensive linemen and getting into a rhythm passing.”

Q: So he likes Kitchens, will he keep him in 2019?

A: That’s clear. But Dorsey’s main point is to begin to have Mayfield and the team find a system that works and a way to win games. That’s how things can change for the Browns. He’ll worry about what coaches remain with the team in 2019 once he picks a head coach.

I'm nitpicking.

The three main coaches Dorsey has worked with are (1) Mike Holmgren, (2) Mike Sherman and (3) Mike McCarty in Green Bay and (4) Andy Reid in Kansas City. Terry must be using common core math. (I originally had a comment about Kansas State's Matt Campbell, but he has since corrected that mistake online.)

Is it that Matt Campbell is at Iowa State, not Kansas State?

We can also point out that Holmgren, Sherman, McCarthy, and Reid are all offensive headed coaches. I don't think people are insistent that we NEED an offensive minded HC, I think it's just highly likely.

If he stays true to that, guys like Schwartz, Harbaugh, Toub, Williams won't be our head coach.

And only Reid was a retread. Dorsey also loves that coaching tree, so maybe that makes Eric "sleeping with" Bieniemy as the favorite at this point?

It's only two games, but frankly, I'm liking Williams and Kitchens.....

If this level of excitement continues (and I think it will), we may have our HC and OC on staff already.

If only Williams would be okay with going back to DC after the season (I assume he'll want the HC or leave)

But, Arians as HC, Williams as DC, and Kitchens as OC would be good IMO

I don't have any particular favorites in mind, I just hope whomever takes the reins of the D, won't try and change it back to a 3-4.

I think Dorsey will take all of that in to account when he makes his decision. He has already started building the team he wants. I don't think he will want to change much in the way of systems being played.

Agreed. Keep the D as similar as possible and help Mayfield grow/succeed

Agreed. There's no reason to change back to a 3-4 and several not to.. continuity, and that some of our linemen like Garrett and Ogunjobi are really better suited for the 4-3 anyway.

The Browns already have the makings of a great defense. There's an impact player at every level (Garrett, Schobert, Ward) and other good or rising players like Ogunjobi, Carrie, Randall, and some others.

There are a lot of building blocks there and the bigger/more pressing investments should probably be on the offensive side of the ball. It would be silly to have an exodus of quality defensive players which is usually what happens when a team changes schemes.

I don't know who he is going to take and I don't know enough to rule out many coaches

If he goes Riley, I am good with that. I am not one who thinks college coaches can't do the job.

I think the NFL is currently copying the college schemes more than the other way around (like it used to be) ... as a result, hiring a college coach might be the WAY to go anymore

I'm also good with Riley. I just don't see it happening.

Matt Campbell probably a better chance for a guy to move from college ranks to NFL.

Not that it really matters, but Riley has been a HC for 2 years, Campbell since 2012.

He might be interviewed, but I don't think Riley will be hired by any pro team any time soon... just my personal opinion... and I'd be fine if we went that route.

I also don't think Williams will be retained in any capacity next season unless somehow we make the playoffs or win a super bowl this season which is almost zero percent of happening. As was pointed out, we have the 31st rated defense. It'll be difficult for him to remain in Cleveland, I think... but I'm excited to let this thing play out.

I certainly agree with you device. I don't see why some of our fans think a guy with only two years at HC in college would make a strong candidate as an NFL HC. The only thing I can think of is they like the "magical Baker connection".

I'd be a bit surprised if Lincoln Riley actually has any interest in even becoming a HC in the NFL.

He just received a deal this past offseason from OU for 5 years and $25M. Coaching at a major college program can be every bit as good as being a HC in the NFL. Certainly quite a bit more security than in the NFL.

Honestly our defense is not playing that great on the most important stat and that is points allowed. Last I checked we were the 5th worst team for points allowed which means we allow too many points to be scored. This is the most important stat because it's the one that directly influences wins and losses.

I still hope we can keep it going though and that Greg Williams remains because I think next year is the year the defense would start to shine because the third year is when players start to play with instinctual speed instead of overthinking things.

As OC Kitchens has the same philosophy as me so I hope he does well enough to stay on. If he flounders then I guess we reset the offense and wait for another 3 years that may or may not ever happen with the way Haslem runs things.

I could not agree with this more .... everything u said in that post is why i am SO OPTOMISTIC we will get out guy no matter how much the thief gets involved or what org. Structure he sets up ...

Dorsey will find a way to get his guy ... as u said the TRUST will be there so the org. Chart won’t matter ...

I do have one question for u ...

Why do u think a seasoned pro whose been around the block would consider for his HC a gentleman with the following resume ....

- at the end of this year 2 years of HC experience at any level ....

- ZERO experience at the NFL level ...

Guys like tabber and device want to be who they are and say its boils down to not wanting a coach from college ... well thats BS ... it runs much deeper than that ... once u go down the rabbit hole and look at a FEW ACTUAL DETAILS in the resume it becomes a much much different picture ...

So i’m Curious ...

Do u think Dorsey will give Riley serious consideration? ...

U said in your post Riley sounded like he wanted to stay in college ... my guess is cause he KNOWS HE NEEDS MORE EXPERIENCE before making the leap into the deep end ... maybe he realizes what i hope Dorsey does and guys like tabber and device clearly don’t is the simple fact he’s NOT READY YET ...

It makes no sense to me dawg ... what am i missing here? ...

I don't think Riley is a serious consideration. It's just a hunch, but it's based on a lot of the things you just wrote.

I'm not going to pretend to know who will or will not be a great head coach. I will have opinions on the matter like most everyone else. With that said, I'm not going to be upset if we end up with Lincoln Riley as HC. I'm putting my faith in the process and the people in position to make this hire (aside from Jimmy). I'm sure there will be some hires I'd be more excited about than others, but I am going to maintain confidence that Dorsey will pick the right man for the job.

I wouldn't worry about it much. Dorsey will make his pick and like it or not, he'll be the guy, unless he picks Rice, of course. Dorsey knows one heck of a lot more than anyone on this forum about who the best candidates are going to be and what his criteria is going to be. I'm going to be comfortable with whomever he chooses, that Dorsey will make a concerted effort to ensure success in his pick.

Dorsey has not done anything thats really made me go ... HUH ... WHAT WAS THAT ... so far ... our past FO’s were loaded with guys that left me scratching my head more often than not ....

If he hires Riley it would be very past FOesque to me ... i would be scratching my head as hard as i ever have seeing as the other guys had me doing in on a daily basis so it was expected ... it would shock me for Dorsey to do something like hire anyone to be his HC that has zero nfl experience and has only been the HC at any level for 2 years ...

The more i think of it the DUMBER IT SEEMS ...

I would have to default to this being the thiefs hire .. only way the math would add up in my head anyhow ...

I will be MAD AS HECK and peed at Dorsey if he hires McCarthy but at least i could understand it ... i think he SUCKS EGGS but at least he meets the MINUMUM EXPERIENCE LEVELS FOR THE JOB!!!

If we hire McCarthy i will not be a happy camper ... i wont be on board with that move til I see some results ...

Dorsey’s a PRO ... as bone says .. he’ll do it right ... I just hope King John’s doing it the right way doesnt up on McCarthy ... *LOL* ...

Ty sir ...

It will be interesting to watch unfold ... although i think other than seeing folks going from the airport to Berea .. were not gonna have a clue as to whats actually going on ....

I tend to agree... I am not a fan of McCarthy. But I really don't care who is hired as long as we win and if he's a guy that'll get us winning, so be it.

As usual I will wait and see who he picks as head coach. I will not play the guessing game as many of you want to do. I will not throw names out there and pretend I am right once again as many of you want to do. I will not ACT like I know more than the folks who make a living in the NFL do.

Neither will I. I do however think people saying we might hire a guy with only two years as an NCAA HC have more hype in that guess than substance.

I would rather have a guy who has been a head coach, and who has successfully run a team, than a position coach or coordinator, who has only had to handle one side of the ball. Riley may be an offensive minded guy, but he runs that team. Sure he delegates, but he's not just an offensive coordinator in coaches clothes. He is the coach, and he is the coach at a major university program.

That step from coordinator to head coach is a tough one. I think it's harder than college to pros. (especially if the new head coach has help hiring a great staff)

I think the intent of saying "it could be a woman" is correct but maybe not the execution.

John, stick to football stay out of that garbage. All they did was drag you into their mud pit for an honest thought. Condi Rice, absolute nonsensical drivel.

I can't say I want him to hire Riley either, not enough experience for my taste, even with his ties to Baker. However if he does, I'm going to be solid behind the guy. I want to win, and if Dorsey feels that's our best chance to win and our future, I'd rather be positive than negative.

Now I doubt seriously that Riley is going to leave OU, it's a pretty cush spot he finds himself in at 35 years old. Almost guaranteed success and never having to pay for a dinner while he's in state, not a bad gig.

I thought the thief made a living hosing truckers ... what’d i miss ... ...

A handful of posters on this board would have done a much better job over the last 20 years than any of your so called “folks who make a living in the nfl” ...

Vers, tabber, Bone, Pit and actually a bunch of others could have done MUCH MUCH BETTER than Sashi or farmer or any of the FOLKS WHO MAKE A LIVING AT IT have done here up til King John ...

That argument rings hollow as heck to me ...

We made the playoffs how many times in 20 years ... once i think ... ya ... a bunch of us would have done NO WORSE than your folks who make a living at it ...

Crap .. who am i kidding ... A DART BOARD would have done no worse than the bafoons we’ve had in here ...

We may actually have someone better than us this time GM ... so far hes kicking our collective butts ... WOOOOHOOOO .... go king john ... .... but based on the past ... your argument is as lame as some saying Sashi did a good job ...

*fingers crossed King John can pull it off* ...

Bro .. this is it ... THIS IS OUR GOLDEN SHOT ... the ducks are in a row like never before .. this will be in the ducks in a row HOF as soon as its eligible ... *L* ...

And if u wanna just think Riley is the answer cause King John hired him .. thats your perogative ... i will be IRRATE until its proven he was not a HORRIBLE HIRE ... ie: we win ...

I will also believe A FOOTBALL GUY DIDN’T MAKE THE HIRE ...

Hes underqualified ... and just because the thief forces him down Dorsey’s throat won’t make that any less true ...

FYI - i’ve Always been in your camp til we made the hire ... thats how little sense Riley makes .. call me what u want GM ... i’ve Been called much worse ... *L* ... but hes simply not qualified and i don’t care what u or the thief say ...

That actually made me thing of sumptin GM ...

U know what King John has that i believe none of out=r ex GM’s had ...

ACTUAL GM EXPERIENCE ...

I believe the rest of our “GM’s” were all either up and comers or lawyers ... *L* ...

Was Heck a gm before? .. if so, I believe he was the only one with actual GM experience ...

Your post made me think of that ... hadn’t occurred to me ...

Ya ... college kids ... nfl players ... its an easy transition for someone whose NEVER DEALT WITH NFL PLAYERS BEFORE ... ...

Come on dawg ... this dudes not been doing it long enough to be wet behind the ears ...

Oh lord .. what am i doing ...

This is absurd .... theres only a slightly better chance we hire Riley then Ms. Rice unless the thief gets involved ...

Have fun dawgs .. i’m Done discussing the absolutely absurd ...

A few things Denny ...

- what leaker would not see right through this ... wow ... whoever hired them should be fired for hiring someone so stupid ... *L* ...

- if i was the leaker and thought it was true ... its so stupid i’d be emberassed to tell my “leakie” that ... i’d Be afraid there’s be a click on the other end never to be heard from again casue all my cred just went out the window .... *LOL* ...