DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Head Coach Search Part IV

However, how many long term assistants, or even coordinators, flop badly when they get the head coach job? You need to evaluate the man, his leadership, his ability to set an agenda and enforce standards, and his ability to work through others. These are even more important than "experience".

Plus, a guy like Kitchens has been around the NFL for a long time. He took the step to coordinator like he had been born to it. Maybe he can take that next step. Who knows?

Our OL wasn't giving our QB time to run the O while Hue was the head coach.


A change was made and we are golden.



Greg and Freddie get it...Clueless and Todd didn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6ya-08Ize4&feature=player_embedded

There is an element of truth and reason to that. But if you watched the game - I think the OL is so bad and CHI front 7 is so good, that to some extent it wouldn't matter what offensive genius was calling the plays, it would have mattered very little.

Cleveland's OL was pretty good both before and after Hue and Haley were fired - the changes Kitchens made are tremendous, but he had a lot more to work with imo

I’m all in for Freddie! Dude deserves his shot as the permanent OC.

There is about a .05% chance Riley comes to the Browns. Baker didn't really say much to say he wanted him on this team anyway. I think he realizes we have something special with our coaches in place.

GW n Freddie next year.

A lot of truth to that. Always been the way I looked at who I want to lead my team.

Nobody knows. That's actually my point. The HC position is a different animal. I'm not arguing against Kitchens for the job. But many times we've seen people get raised through the ranks too soon without having a large window of experience to look at.

While it's certainly an all or nothing proposition, most anyone that has never had a HC position is the same. The only difference is that the more experience someone has had at the OC position or as a former NFL HC, the more information you have to base a decision on.

Thank the good lord that Riley will have that 2nd year as HC under his belt so we don’t have to worry about his lack of a resume ....


I just cant fathom how he is a viable candidate with his overall lack of experience ... mind boggling to me ..

Me as well. Like I said, that's taking a home run swing on a curve ball when the count is 3-2. You either hit the home run or you strike out. There's really no in between. I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. But hey, stranger things have happened.

I just hope its not like trying to hit a 5 run homer if we do it ...

I'm not usually one of those irritating people that state opinion as fact, but if we keep Williams and Kitchen we are 12-4 next year. Mark it down.

Not going to predict the record - I will predict we win the division. I'm with you on retaining GW as HC. Kitchens as OC and I'd prefer one of the very talented DC's who are currently HC's about to be fired - Quinn or Bowles.

Will be interesting to see how u feel about our record next year if we dont keep GW and/or Freddie ...

One thing folks need to consider ...

The job GW and Fred have now (way more GW than Fred) will be MUCH DIFFERENT than the jobs they will have if we keep them on ...

Its one thing to be an interim coach and an entirely different mind set and ball of wax when u become da permanant HC ... especially on the “mental” side of things ...

Its the same job yet completely different on some IMPORTANT aspects of it ...

I went to pick up some take out at a local pub.... Sat down had a beer while waiting... Guys that I know were sitting around it was really funny that none, not one of them want Williams to remain as HC... I didn't get into the conversation because I knew I'd be leaving soon, but damn, why no love for Williams...

NFL Makes Changes To Rooney Rule

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/12/nfl-rooney-rule-change

He's done it before, it's not new territory. He knows what he's getting into.

Good catch ... thats not what i meant but its very true and valid ...

When someone is an interim coach they take over things from someone else ... its a short term gig at that point ... they do things and coach different in the interim phase then if they get the gig permantely ... this is where i have a tough time explaining things .. wish we could do a conference call .. *L* ...

Not sure i’m good enough with the written word to express my thoughts in a manner that gets my “meaning” across to the reader ...

Thats not the angle i was coming from when I posted that ...

OH VEY ... what have i done ... *L* ..

If King John sees him fit, who are we peasants to disagree

This is weird, whats the point of having a suggested list of names, if those names don't count? Seems like by being on that list, you my have caused some people a job interview nfl lol

I get what you're saying, but I don't think GW is looking at it that way....he's auditioning for the permanent job. He's already got a nice resume (albeit with a big fat checkmark for bountygate) and has proven he can work with the talent on this particular team.

Same thing as we had here with Hue and Todd. Bring in Freddie and it turns around.


Bottom line is some of these coaches need to bring out the best in their players talents. You can't always do that by beating them in the head that it is my way or the highway.

Look at Don Shula's career. He was the best at using his talent. When young, he had Johnny U and the Colts. It was a balanced attack. Johnny at the helm, but he had Lenny Moore as the main back.

Go to Miami. He ended up with a 3 headed monster in the backfield with Zonk, Morris, and Kick...they could run the ball and they did. Griese was a smart QB who could target Warfield and Mandrich the TE. But they were run heavy. He went with his studs.

A few years later he had a kid named Marino at QB and the O became pass heavy.


All of this spans over 35 years.

Freddie saw what hew had and used the playbook to his and his players advantage.


I remember Freddie as QB at Alabama. He was a pretty darn good QB.

No, his talent and body didn't scare anybody, but he was good.

He was Mr. Football in HS. He played for the Tide and started 2-3 years. He could play.

I’m not doing a good job explaining it .. either that or u suck at listening ... *LOL* ..

I messed this up dawg ... were talking apples to oranges inside the apple crate if u know what i mean ... ...

I don’t have the writing skills to put whats in my head in a post in a way that gets what I actually mean across ...

It truely is one of my weakest attributes ...

I don't think so, but those near and dear to me agree with you.

Are you gonna start a new Isle of Optimism thread?

Hurry up.

I've been wondering what people think of Flip getting fired..

I think that Flip is a darn good coach, but for some reason, a coach who wants to play defense and run the ball hired a passing coach.

The Vikings have had trouble on their OL all season long. Despite this, they are 9th in the league in passing, and have 24 TD and 9 INT. They have thrown the 3rd most times in the NFL.

They have been roughly a 2-1 pass/run team. That's where the NFL is heading. Zimmer is a defense 1st coach, though, and bringing in a pass 1st OC was a poor marriage to start with.

We'll see how the Vikings do for the rest of the year.

That's why he's the HC of the Browns next year - that and his record !

and he is not fake.

Where is all the continuity talk from the people screaming for such about keeping Hue?

I don't see what difference it makes. Dorsey is going to do what he's going to do.

And who really said anything about "keeping Hue"? All most said was give him a shot with a real QB and some real weapons. He got that shot and he blew it. It was time to move on.

Revisionist history is a wonderful thing for some. Thanks for adding the Hue BS to yet another thread. It's just what we were all missing..

What's your point, Peen? Do you want continuity or not? Do you want Williams as the HC or not? Are you gloating, or just acting like a jerk? I can't tell.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2018/12...erry-pluto.html

Cleveland Browns: Gregg Williams continues to make his bid to remain as coach -- Terry Pluto



By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

tpluto@plaind.com

BEREA, Ohio – About a month ago, I heard the name of John DeFilippo as a possible candidate to become the next coach of the Cleveland Browns.

At that point, DeFilippo was the offensive coordinator of the Minnesota Vikings. He also was still being praised for his work as the quarterback coach for Carson Wentz and the Philadelphia Eagles.

DeFilippo is 40 years old. He was falling into the category of the “young hot coordinator” on track to become a head coach.

DeFilippo was the Browns' offensive coordinator in 2015. I thought he was OK. But it was the typical Browns disaster, so it was so hard to judge any assistant coach.

Johnny Manziel was still around, but falling apart. Josh McCown was the other quarterback. There was a major split between general manager Ray Farmer and coach Mike Pettine.

The Browns finished 3-13. Everyone was fired after that 2015 season.

That’s when DeFilippo surfaced in Philadelphia, where he was put in charge of the quarterbacks for coach Doug Pederson. It was Pederson who called the plays.

After the 2017 season, Minnesota lost its offensive coordinator to the New York Giants as head coach. His name was Pat Shurmur, the former Browns head coach in 2011-12.

The Vikings hired DeFilippo, a move praised across the NFL. For the second time in his NFL career, DeFilippo had the power to call plays. He also was paired up with Kirk Cousins, the free agent who signed a 3-year, fully guaranteed $84 million contract.

But after a 6-6-1 record and a stumbling offense, DeFilippo was fired this week.

That probably doused any talk of him being the next head coach of the Browns or any other NFL team.

This is not meant to dismiss the Youngstown native as any type of an NFL coach. DeFilippo will probably surface somewhere next season as a quarterback coach – and he very well could be successful.

But it is to point out how a hot coordinator can quickly turn very cold.

WHAT ABOUT CLEVELAND?

I thought about DeFilippo being fired as I attended the Tuesday Gregg Williams press conference.

It’s clear Williams is becoming more comfortable each week in the role of head coach. It’s also obvious the players are in a good place with him.

This is the NFL. Three games are left in the season. A lot can change.

So this is not a plea for the Browns to immediately hire Williams for 2019.

But it is to consider the fact that Williams comes across as an experienced head coach who has brought order and a sense of purpose to a team desperately in need of those things.

The 60-year-old Williams can be a bit annoying as he often ties himself to almost everyone who did anything in NFL history. He has worked for eight teams in 28 NFL seasons.

But as he said, “I’ve coached over 2,000 NFL players...”

He said he receives “500 or 600 texts on Father’s Day.”

I don’t know the numbers. He could be right.

And experience isn’t always a positive. You can be very experienced at being mediocre and unwilling to accept new ideas.

But it’s not an accident the Browns are 3-2 since the coaching change...compared to 2-5-1 under former head coach Hue Jackson.

For the most part, Williams is very informative and relaxed during his media sessions. His messages are usually clear, and that serves him well when talking to his players.

FRESH APPROACH

This is the first time Freddie Kitchens is calling plays in the NFL.

When the Browns fired offensive coordinator Todd Haley (along with Jackson), Kitchens was promoted from running backs coach to play-caller.

No one knew what to expect.

Kitchens was a protege of former Arizona head coach Bruce Arians. But Arians called the plays when Kitchens was on his coaching staff.

It was Haley who brought Kitchens to Cleveland.

But Kitchens has been a revelation. He is creative and seems to work well with Baker Mayfield and others on the offense.

Williams is still leading the defense, along with his son Blake Williams.

These two guys are working together – some old school from Williams and new ideas from Kitchens.

It all can collapse in the final three games. There is no rush to make a coaching decision about 2019.

But right now, I feel better about these coaches than trying an untested coordinator who has never sat in the seat of a head coach before.

I am wanting to keep Williams. What we are seeing is worth keeping.

So continuity is a good thing? I tend to agree. The team is playing at a high level, the discipline message has been (or seems to have been) heard. And Kitchens is probably the most effective OC we've had in decades. The sample size is small, but so far so good.

And I am also a continuity guy. I've also made comments regarding keeping Williams and Kitchens. Yet I haven't pimped anyone for the new job, including Williams and Kitchens.

I love what I've seen from them so far. They are very capable at their respective jobs. But there are three games left in their eight game interview. The process of interviewing perspective new coaches doesn't even begin until our season is over. I'm not as willing to jump the gun and pimp anyone for the job until all of the facts are in.

If the trend we have seen continues in terms of intensity and production from our team, I will certainly advocate keeping the current coaching staff in place and adding a new DC.

That's exactly where I sit right now. For example, it would be hard for me to say no to Ariens or McCarthy but it would be impossible to advocate change if we keep playing at this level of intensity, and keep seeing our offense improving and having the success they're having. You just can't argue with wins and 14 TDs in 14 trips to the red zone. That's good football in anybody's book.

I've already said my piece; I don't need to keep repeating it.

Besides that, Williams & Kitchens are doing the loudest talking for themselves already.