DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Coaching Search Continued

No worries, call it friendly debate.

I've already made way too many posts defending Williams's excellent decision so no need to keep adding to that.

Not sure how you type much on the tablet. I need a full size keyboard for some of this rambling I do..

I still think Browns should be unorthodox with this, and just have co-head coaches with Williams & Kitchens.

Cross John Harbaugh off the list of possibilities. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-coach-in-2019/

NO...The Jackson /Haley show was a failure from the start..Even thou Haley wasn't deemed a co HC in Haleys mind I think he believed he was..

A disaster in the making...One man in charge is enough..jmo

I'm good with Williams now. I like to watch his pressers on YouTube. Intelligent, well spoken and obviously a special kind of leader of men. Took me a bit to warm up to the idea but admittedly hadn't really heard him speak much before. Took a wreck and transformed it into something of value.

Agreed

I would even take that a step further and say one man in charge for the entire organization. (John Dorsey)

It's just something to keep in mind when discussing the possibility of bringing in an established coach, such as Mike McCarthy. It's not a very exciting prospect to begin with, and McCarthy would have enough clout that the two of them might start butting heads on things.

Just for once, I want the GM and head coach to be on the same page. Let's try it once, just for the hell of it.

That's kind of a tricky argument and I hope others see what I'm trying to get at. Obviously both the GM and HC are both very important, and have different responsibilities.

What we want to avoid is a clash of personalities, power struggles, and that kind of thing.

I think the emergence of Kitchens has allowed us to have a little more broad head coaching search. When Hue Jackson was originally fired I almost would have guaranteed we hired an offensive minded head coach. With Kitchens in tow I would expect we hire some different guys than we would have if he were not around. Because of John Dorsey's secrecy I don't know any names for sure, but my guess is that we interview some guys like Brian Flores from New England, Kris Richard from Dallas, Jim Schwartz from Philadelphia, and Vic Fangio from Chicago.

While coaching searches are usually pretty interesting, this one will be different than any I remember in the past (among every team).

with the exception of posting that Williams Kitchens 2019 pic, I've stayed out of this one so far bc IMO this story isn't finished yet, there are still 2 more game to be played... The interview is still ongoing for GW and FK..

If I HAD to chose with a gun pointed at my head and IF GW was willing to be DC I'd be ok with Arians HC, GW DC and FK OC

I'm most likely ok w GW as HC.

I talked to a GBay fan today that thinks that GB made a mistake and that Mike Mc is a quality coach... personally I don't want him at all

I'm over the 4th and 1 go or FG things.. it's in the past and we won.

Kitchens is gonna land a HC job somewhere IMO ...

And IF both Bowles and Wilkes get fired ... i’ll GAURANTEE u he lands a HC job ....

Thats gonna muck up Williams here in that if Kitchens isn’t OC not sure how much interest we have in GW ...

IF Bowles and Wilkes get fired I would say Kitchens has a better shot at being our HC than GW ...

IF Garett goes in big D thats another team with a young QB ... there gonna win the division by default more than likely so he’s prolly safe ...

The Bills may be an option if they dont retain there moron of a HC .... talk about a dude that should get fired ... *L* ... no ckue how he’s gonna be there next year but he will ....

Not sure how Kitchens don’t land one of the jobs .... there’s gonna be a PLETHORA of them ... *L* ...

I think Kitchens gets some interviews, but no offers.

I hope your right ...

Question is .... do we let him go interview elsewhere ....

Cause i’ll tell u one thing for sure ... he’s a heck of a lot more ready and qualified to be a HC than Riley and its not even close ...

If it’s for a head coaching position we have to let him interview.

Elaborate? Why you think such?

Riley is such a unique candidate.

He’s not experienced per se, but I don’t think he’s unqualified, either. In fact, I think being the head coach of one of the biggest college football programs in the nation prepares someone for being the head coach of an NFL franchise. There’s an argument that the head coach of a football powerhouse is more prepared for the administrative aspects and shouldering the stress of the head-coaching job than an NFL coordinator. It’s a different kind of preparation, but it’s a form of preparation nonetheless. Obviously, they bring some weaknesses with them, such as a lack of personnel knowledge and leadership questions, and you must account for that. You can compensate for a lack of personnel knowledge with an experienced support staff. You cannot compensate for a leadership style that does not translate to professional athletes. Although, I tend to believe that an effective leader is capable of adapting and leading professional athletes without prior experience with professional athletes.

Specifically, for the Browns, I think Baker’s presence alleviates the latter concern. Baker already commands the respect of the locker room and Baker owns complete belief in Riley. Even if you’re skeptical of a college hotshot, you’re likely willing to suspend those suspicions until you can form a more complete opinion of your own. That said, if the locker room sours on Riley despite Baker’s presence, you’re staring at some ugly, uncomfortable situations, and the likelihood of such an outcome increases in proportion to their support for the current coaches.

Otherwise, I see it. If you believe that Baker is the most important component of the hire, then hiring Riley has obvious appeal. He’s part of the cutting edge of offensive football and brings a successful relationship with Baker. Provided the surrounding staff meets NFL standards, there is a lot of potential for that pairing.

But I have no idea if he even wants the job.

IMO, FK doesn't get a "sniff" for a HC vacancy anywhere at this time...he has virtually no experience. There is much more than tactical expertise required for such a position. He's not yet ready...

Getting rid of double G but and trying to bring back Freddy as position other then HC is gonna be a tough sell.

I think that is the plan right now.

If you were Freddy would you come back as OC here with someone else as HC?

For a chance to be the one credited with conducting the Baker train? Yep.

I sure hope not. We've done a lot this season to get rid of so many monkeys that have been on this franchise's back for 20yrs... doing something like that just seems like it would be the "Brownsiest way to Browns".

Say what we will about GW, but the man stays in his lane right? By all accounts he stayed out of the Hue and Haley mess. I haven't seen anything to suggest that anyone other than Freddie is running the offense. I'd go so far as to say that he's not as hands on with the defense as he had been. Another Dawg mentioned how the defense is still aggressive under Blake, but it also seems more disciplined with the play calling.

People not staying in their lane is what has caused so much dysfunction over the years.

GW I should think checks a lot of the boxes. I guess the biggest one would be is if and how much Dorsey wants an offensive minded HC? It also depends on just how he evaluates Freddie.

Freddie is an up and comer, that is obvious. But does Dorsey think he needs an offensive mind to develop/mentor him? If so, that bumps GW out.

But if he views Freddie as an OC coming in to his own, on his own, retaining GW makes sense because he wouldn't be the type to get in Freddie's way.

Here's one other thing to think about that I don't think many people have considered: Basically everyone has assumed Dorsey has had a list of HC candidates since even before coming to Cleveland. What's to say that GW isn't already on that list prior to being named interim HC?

I keep going back to the Peter King story about asking Dorsey during the Draft why we took Ward over Chubb and Dorsey's response of going with GW's recommendation. In my mind there is NO WAY Dorsey enters his first Draft for a franchise in our shape at that time and spends the #4 pick on a player recommended by the DC he didn't hire... unless Dorsey already had a high level of trust and respect for what GW brings to the table.

I know, it's all speculation in the end, but this is a point IMO worth considering.

*DevilDawg tales a final sip from his diamond encrusted chalice, takes off his wide brimmed feather hat, fur coat, and steps out of his platform shoes*

I'll take a break from pimping for GW now lol

I dont agree dawg .... here’s why ... and i didnt know this til now as we’ve learned a lot about dude ... i actually contend he’s more than ready ....

He’s GRINDED this out for over 20 years now ...

- Played QB at bama ... a former QB ....
- 7 years in the college ranks ..
- finishing u year 12 or 13 in the NFL ...
- has GRINDED his way up the food chain ...

And last but not least ... THIS YEAR HAS CHANGED THINGS big time for him ... ESPECIALLY for teams with young qb’s the gm’s there risked there futures on .... unfortunately for us there’s 3 others that more than likely will be looking for new HC’s thisyear .....

he GRINDED under the shadows for years .... last year we made him associate HC for a reason ... someone saw someting in him ....

NOW that i know who he is and his backround ... i’d Have no problems with him being HC ... matter fo fact ... he may end up my leader in the clubhouse ..

Right now ... i like Arians and Toub as my two personal favs ... unless its Riley i’ll Be able to live with anyone ... and thank god dorseys a pro and wont fall for the WAY UNDERQUALIFIED SHINY NEW OBJECT everyones enamored with for all the wrong reasons ...

thats not what i meant ....

I meant do we hire him as HC and not let him get away ... IMO we have by far the best job ... NOT EVEN CLOSE when u take all things into account .... if we offer Fred he’s not leaving ... NO WAY ....

Yes.

Being named full-time offensive coordinator is a fair and reasonable promotion for the work he's done these last 6 or so weeks.

I don't think he's ready to be a head coach and doubt he will get an offer to be one, from the Browns or any other team. If he gets a head coaching offer from another team, he's free to take it and probably should.

Otherwise he'd still be an assistant coach with the Browns and we could put him anywhere we want. Like I said above, OC is a fair and reasonable promotion. Moving him back to running backs coach, while in the Browns right to do so, might be a little slap in the face. I don't think that will happen though.

He’s under contract.

In before 130 point slide begging to be let out of his contract

Simple ...

One has 20 years of grinding in the nfl and in college ... see my reply to 32 above ....

The other has 2 years as a HC at a major college program and THATS IT ... his only NFL experience is sitting in the stands, possibly next to one of us ... *LOL* ...

Dude has 2 years HC experience at any level ....

He’s been an offenesive genius in a conference that when they do the cheer for D-E-F-E-N-S-E it goes like this ... D-E ... then it stops cause they dont even know how to spell it ... *LOL* ...

He also had one Baker Mayfeild as his QB from the day he was hired and he then had a smaller, faster very accurate version of him this year ...

Sorry dawg ... he checks ONE BOX and thats it ... and he’s only been a HC for 2 years and at a major college program for 4 years after this one ends ...

I’m not worried about it ... King John is a pro and won’t be enamored by the shiny new object on his landscape like appearantly many on here are ...

No need to even go over the differences in the two games and handling grown men as opposed to kids ...

NOT WORRIED ...

I think we are damaged as Browns fans. We see competence and mistake it for greatness (or something like it). I don’t want to say that Gregg Williams is not the answer, but I also don’t want to say that there are no better options.

Under this criteria Sean McVay would be ineligible to be our coach.

Sig bet on Fred’s future? ...

What's your offer?

Please explain ...

How does the fact Riley has ZERO NFL experience = McVay not being qualified ...

I either mis understood or u got some WHACKED OUT ASS LOGIC i need to hear ...

I’ll be waiting ...

If Fred’s a HC next year i win ... if not u win ...

Pretty simple ... that wasn't obvious ... u do tend to overthink things ... ...

I'll make it a friendly bet, no sig space involved.

No need to make the other person look silly just because we didn't predict Freddie's future correctly.

Plus my current rep on the head coaching subject is as one of the leaders of the "Clueless Hue has got to go" movement. It's hard to get something that right.

If Dorsey lets Gregg go then I would be shocked if Fred (the Assistant HC) remains as the OC for a new HC.

I understand your line of thinking but I wouldn't be shocked.

If he's offered the OC job here by whomever is HC, I would bet he takes it unless his other option is HC somewhere. What better to put on your resume than you turned around the Browns offense. If we don't make him the HC or some type of HC heir apparent (I'm not sure I'd agree going that route) he could be gone after a year...

Why do u ASSume I’d make u look silly if u lost .... guess i know what my sig would have looked like if i lost ... *L* ...

Pretty sure we all ready have a “friendly wager” .... ...

Enjoy your day dawg ... going to play football (official qb eventhough i cant throw anymore ... *L*) with my nephews in a few ... that cant be a bad day ...

I wouldn't have showed you up, if that's what you're thinking. It's just something I don't care enough to keep track of.

Enjoy your day, maybe take it easy on the ol' shoulder if you haven't thrown in a while.

Good point. i won't close the door on their being a better option than GW either. In full disclosure I don't follow the NFL at large or college football at all, so I can't really add to discussions of pros/cons for other candidates. My opinion on the matter is based on what's in front of me. But the one thing that no one has done in now 9 pages is articulate why GW wouldn't be a good choice or another particular person would be a better candidate over him. I'm good with tempering what we are seeing and assessing all of this as competence. Even so, this team is legitimately trending upwards.


I'm all for Dorsey doing his due diligence and interviewing several people. Even if the correct answer is keeping what we have in place, I'd be concerned if other interviews weren't conducted.

I guess what I was hoping for was a little more insight and opinion from others. Using what we have going on now as a baseline, what is it that some of these other names can bring to the table that puts us in a better position or path going forward.

John Dorsey has done a very good job thus far IMO. We have to have faith he will do the same with our HC.