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Niolen #1572530 12/24/18 02:24 PM
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"If it's true of course?"

Right now all of that is past tense. What lies ahead is a very difficult decision.

There are many ways to look at this. Obviously Williams and Freddie have worked there way into the decision process.

Another person in the overall mix with this is Blake Williams. The defense has played better under Blake than Greg.

In my humble opinion Dorsey can not look at this only through the lens of recent history since Hue and Haley were let go. Certainly it should be factored in. But it should not be all inclusive.

Dorsey will remain true to what he has established as the process. Bring all candidates in for a sit down.

Freddie is the one guy who has really made a name for himself. There is no denying the stats that changed since he took over the offense.

This is one tough decision. Dorsey is well aware that it will define his career.

I trust the guy. He has done an incredible job in upgrading the talent in a short time.

We should be thankful that at least the GM position is in the right hands.

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Personally I think that is the red flag moment of this article. We're supposed to believe the baseball numbers guy, who sits in California, is influencing hiring and firing of the coaching staff, equal to or over Dorsey?


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U think Fred is going to be a HC somewhere next year or u think he’s an OC somewhere next year? ...

Everything i’m Hearing about the guy is pushing me more and more into his corner ...

I’m sooooooo impressed Parcells heard enough good things about him to want to interview him w/o any previous relationship ... then he goes in and gets the job with the tuna ... thats no easy feet bro ...

Your thoughts on his chances of being a HC vs OC somewhere next year please ...

Ty sir ... thumbsup




cfrs15 #1572538 12/24/18 02:35 PM
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That story is a bunch of crock, Haley came here because he was out of a job, we had an opening, and he knew that Hue wouldn't last as the HC based on A. Haslam's penchant for firing Head Coaches, and B. The stuff starting to come out about Hue. Nobody told/promised Haley he would get the Head Coaching gig, he was just hoping he would get it. Also Dorsey wouldn't have come here if he didn't have complete control of the team and staff, there is no way DePodesta has a major say in anything, he's a soldier not a General.


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cfrs15 #1572543 12/24/18 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
I think this is the perfect article to start the new thread with:

Quote:
In 2011, when the Kansas City Chiefs were slugging it out after firing Todd Haley late in the season, an unexpected long-term candidate emerged. He was defensive-minded, understood the rhythms of the locker room and brought a mindset veteran leaders embraced. More importantly, he was winning, finishing the season 2-1 after Haley’s departure and breathing new life into the organization. So much so, he went from interim head coach to the chosen man when the season concluded.

His name was Romeo Crennel. And in Chiefs coaching lore, he’s known as the right interim choice in 2011 who became the wrong permanent head coach in 2012. Six years later, his one-season tenure (2-14) is the forgotten blip in team history, having been succeeded by Andy Reid in 2013 with little regret and zero second-guessing.

For the Cleveland Browns, this is a worthwhile piece of history to study. There is a Gregg Williams conundrum developing for the franchise. Once considered the unlikeliest of permanent hires when he was elevated to interim head coach in late October, he’s now sitting on a 5-2 record and riding a wave of Browns euphoria not seen since 2007. Cleveland fans can surely remember that last high point, when the team went 10-6 in (you guessed it) Romeo Crennel’s third season as head coach and appeared to be turning a corner. The Browns weren’t, of course. As it turns out, Crennel was the wrong head coaching hire in both Kansas City and Cleveland. That should be some food for thought for Browns fans, given that Crennel would later pull off a mini-rejuvenation with the Chiefs, convincing ownership he was the right man for the job when he actually wasn’t.

At this critical juncture, falling into that kind of mistake is precisely what Cleveland doesn’t need. It’s why the Browns’ chief decision-makers – as unclear as they may be – have to look at Williams and remove the emotion lifting the organization right now. This comes down to one question, and it has nothing to do with a 5-2 spurt against mediocre teams.

Is Gregg Williams the right coach to pair with Baker Mayfield for the next 10 years?

The coach-player model the Browns seek
I can say with full confidence that the Browns are approaching their coaching search with that question at the forefront. If the answer to that long-term chemistry question leads to any doubt, the candidate in question is a nonstarter. There will certainly be a laundry-list of attributes that are important for the next head coach, but his match with Mayfield will be paramount.

This is what Cleveland is looking for:

Bill Belichick and Tom Brady.

Sean Payton and Drew Brees.

Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes.

Sean McVay and Jared Goff.

We can talk all we want about schemes, energy and leadership, but this search will begin with the viability of the next coach to fit with Mayfield for a decade or more. The kind of coach-quarterback relationship that can survive losing seasons, staff shuffling, coordinator departures, schematic tweaks, micro-rebuilds and any other stressful pitfalls. The Browns believe they have one-half of that equation for long-term success in Mayfield. Now the goal is finding the other half, without making a decision corrupted by emotion or familiarity.

Is Williams that coach? There are two important beliefs about the Browns process:

First, it’s unclear who is going to make the call on this one. Since Hue Jackson and Haley were fired, I’ve heard a few things about how the Browns are working internally right now. Initially, the word was that team owner Jimmy Haslam was going to make the final call on a head coach with general manager John Dorsey being the lone point man. But I’m not so sure about that anymore.

Dorsey clearly didn’t get his chosen man as the interim coach. Regardless of what anyone says publicly, I’m absolutely certain that Haley was Dorsey’s preference as the interim coach. And I think Haley didn’t ascend to that position because someone else had significant influence in the process.

Most people will read that and think, “Well, it must have been Haslam who made the call on Haley’s firing.” Initially, that’s what I was led to believe. But I’m not so sure of that anymore. After some conversations with those who know the Browns, I’m now more certain than ever that chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta has been more influential than anyone outside of the organization understands. I think everyone (including me) has been led astray about the current power structure in Cleveland. Especially where it concerns Dorsey.

Here’s what is clear: Haley believed he was in line to step into the interim coaching job if Hue was fired, and he got that belief from Dorsey and some of Dorsey’s subordinates on the personnel side of the organization. And when that didn’t happen and Haley was fired, he was completely blindsided by it. Which means one of two things – either Dorsey and his subordinates stabbed Haley in the back (which they didn’t), or Dorsey was overruled in the process when it came to his chosen interim. I believe it was the latter, with DePodesta having a more significant hand in the process than anyone realized and Haslam giving the green light to fire Haley. Boiled down, I think DePodesta has more power than most people realize, while Dorsey has less.

Second, it’s a fallacy to assume that Dorsey is making the call on the head coach. Certainly not unilaterally sending up a name to Haslam. If anything, Dorsey will have some sway, DePodesta will have some sway, and Haslam will make his call based on the information at hand. That doesn’t guarantee some Dorsey-inspired “get the Green Bay Packers band back together” scenario with Mike McCarthy.


Will McCarthy be in consideration? Surely. But Williams will get a legitimate head coaching interview, too, with longer odds at landing the job. And not because Williams is a defensive coach and the Browns are looking for an offensive mind to pair with Mayfield. From what I can ascertain at this stage, the Browns are looking for the right coach … not the right offensive mind.

The case against Gregg Williams
So what does that mean? In a way, I’d liken it to what the Baltimore Ravens did when they hired John Harbaugh in 2008. Harbaugh had a coaching resume mixed between offense and defense, but he was actually a top-level special teams coordinator with the Philadelphia Eagles when the Ravens came calling. I believe the Browns are willing to have a similar open mind in this search. One that will consider all types of coordinators or former head coaches for the job, as well as both NFL and college candidates. All in favor of finding the one guy who can handle the rigors of a top job while also dovetailing with the next decade of Mayfield.

It’s worth considering that Williams is 60 and most NFL head coaches are in the winter of their careers at that stage. It certainly doesn’t eliminate Williams from the job, but most of the successful NFL head coaches in their 60s had already established their top-end reputations before hitting that plateau.

The sour reality is that Williams represents a head coaching retread after going 17-31 with the Buffalo Bills from 2001-2003. And no coaching retread has experienced a second head coaching life and massive success after breaching 60.

So yes, Williams’ age is an issue if you’re looking at pairing a guy with Mayfield for 10 years. It’s not the only sobering reality in play, either. The Browns have to recognize that the team wasn’t dead when Williams took over. In fact, Cleveland had already started playing very competitive football by the time Jackson and Haley began spiraling. So you can’t say Williams completely reshaped what was happening. It only looks that way because he has won some of the games that the Browns had been losing earlier in the season.

And what of those five wins? Well, the Browns have managed that run of success against the Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers, Denver Broncos and Cincinnati Bengals (twice). Subtracting the losses to the Browns, that foursome is a collective 24-30 this season. And three of those four teams – the Panthers, Broncos and Bengals – all have head coaches who are currently on the hot seat. That’s not exactly a murderers’ row of competition. That’s perspective to consider when it comes to Williams’ candidacy. Not to mention his previous head coaching record and the bounty scandal in New Orleans as the Saints’ defensive coordinator.

Then there is this reality: Since 1997, Williams has been a defensive coordinator with six different NFL teams. Seven if you count two different stints with the Rams. Yet he has been a head coach in the NFL only once, despite whatever he may say about all the head coaching jobs he has been offered. That’s a lot of tread laid down with a lot of different teams and coaches. And it becomes curious when you’ve been in and out of so many organizations at a coordinator level but never landed another head coaching job.

Why not keep Williams and Freddie Kitchens?
None of this means he hasn’t been a good interim for the Browns. Just from the standpoint of the record, he has been exactly what the franchise needed him to be, with a huge assist from offensive coordinator Freddie Kitchens. But that’s a whole other part of this deal. If anything, Kitchens should be as high on the head coaching candidate list for the Browns as Williams. If only for the fact that the 44-year-old Kitchens has shown flashes of brilliance in limited time for Cleveland, while also appearing to fit well with Mayfield. It can be argued that Kitchens’ age, history with quarterbacks and relationship with Mayfield already make him a better candidate than Williams.

That will lead some to suggest, “Why not hire Williams and keep Kitchens in the fold?”

There’s a simple answer to that. You can’t rely on Kitchens sticking around. That’s how the Tampa Bay Buccaneers ended up firing Lovie Smith after only two seasons because they thought Dirk Koetter was the right fit for quarterback Jameis Winston and were afraid of losing him to another head coach opening. If the Browns like Kitchens that much, he should be above Williams when it comes to sorting candidates.

That may be what ultimately happens. For now, Williams is the conundrum. It’s been a long time since the franchise felt this good about nearly two full months of the football schedule. Maybe not since Crennel’s breakout in 2007. But Cleveland knows how that ended. That alone should suggest a long, hard and sobering look at Williams.

And after that, maybe a difficult admission when this season is over: that Gregg Williams has been what the Browns needed now, but not what they need next.


https://sports.yahoo.com/gregg-williams-right-browns-coach-baker-mayfield-024313965.html

I bolded the part that I thought was the most interesting. We have never discussed this at all (to my knowledge). I just figured DePodesta was neutered when Sashi Brown got fired. It heartens me to think he has major influence with the team. He is a very smart, clear thinker who will know how to make sure everyone is on the same page. He is also a forward thinker who won't be a prisoner of the moment.


marv levy was pretty successful in his second go round when hired by the bills at the age of 63

Tulsa #1572545 12/24/18 02:44 PM
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Yahoo is the national enquirer in pretty much all its reporting ... and there especially enquireresque when it comes to football ... there CLUELESS ...

I saw yahoo in it and read no further ...

There’s lots of theories on lots of things starting with who actually wanted Cody ... *LOL* .... many many things have gone on between that and where were at today that we have NO CLUE who the actual catalyst was .... NONE ....

Personally ... i could care less ... all i care about is

WHERE WE ARE AND WHERE WERE HEADED .... thumbsup

We have one last DOMINO to TUMBLE .... if we get a guy that King John wants and has trust in and with ... org. Chart won’t matter ... those two will either win or lose ... if they win the thief will be thrilled and no ones gonna care who reports to who ... it’ll be shangrala ... if we lose ... well, we certainly know that drill ... *L* ....




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D. This is one tough call.

In some ways it reminds me of when John Madden was first hired. At the time he was no big deal and very young (then)to be considered head coach material.

I love what he is doing with the offense. Very unpredictable. Mixes up play calling. Uses the whole field. Uses misdirection plays, screens, doesn't bail on the run game. When you look at the formations you really can not tell what the play ends up as.

Then the stats don't lie.

So we come back to Dorsey. He comes off as pragmatic guy. Even though he may have gone into this process with some predispositions he is smart enough to alter and adjust.

However, what we don't know would fill volumes. First comes how he and Freddie would work? Dorsey and Williams?

At some point Blake Williams will need to separate from his father. I like what he doing on defense.

The big factor Baker and his head coach?

Freddie has made a mark. I like that he made it clear he wants to be a head coach. He will be on the radar with his record here.

In many ways you would hate to break up what they have going.

If they win next week. Haslam may step in and say I like this winning stuff. There will be no changes.

All this will be front and center till the decision is made.

If we don't retain Freddie he will surely be called on by another team.

Tulsa #1572566 12/24/18 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tulsa
Personally I think that is the red flag moment of this article. We're supposed to believe the baseball numbers guy, who sits in California, is influencing hiring and firing of the coaching staff, equal to or over Dorsey?




First, how do you know he sits in California?

Second, baseball has nothing to do with this. You still process the numbers in a similar manner. You look at the trends in the same way.


As I said earlier, Jimmy kept Paul for a reason. Probably because Paul provided a list of players he would draft based on his method before the last few drafts, and his list was pretty solid.

Either way, I am glad Dorsey is in charge and glad DePo is there as a back-up. He isn't selecting players. He is simply providing a list of players to Dorsey that either support drafting a player or not.

I know I read where Depo was in support of drafting Baker at #1.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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First, it's what I've always heard and second, it's his history and what he's most known for.


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I doubt DePodesta is doing anything with player acquisition on a large scale. He is a systems manager.

cfrs15 #1572573 12/24/18 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
I doubt DePodesta is doing anything with player acquisition on a large scale. He is a systems manager.




I agree. He is providing the information he provides to be a tool for the scouting guys and GM..


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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That makes a lot more sense than what the article indicated.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Doesn't Depo also work for other NFL teams?


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
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Originally Posted By: jfanent
Doesn't Depo also work for other NFL teams?


No.

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Originally Posted By: jfanent
Doesn't Depo also work for other NFL teams?


That was the other guy who consulted with the Browns before the draft.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If Williams does not get the job, the Browns are likely to have a new head coach, defensive coordinator and possibly a new OC, depending on the new HC. Factor in a new system, on both offense and defense. Team chemistry will have to be developed once again. We will be taking a step back from where we are and what we've become as a team.
I am sure Dorsey is smart enough to factor all of this in when selecting a new HC. I doubt Haslam is.
Sometimes changes are not always better as we have witnessed many times.
I would like to see Williams, Kitchen and Blake Williams all remain in their current positions. The future looks bright in Cleveland.


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j/c

I'd like to think that Depo doesn't get involved until the football guys create a list for him to consider and to help whittle down that list...NOT that he's involved in creating the initial list(s).

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
j/c

I'd like to think that Depo doesn't get involved until the football guys create a list for him to consider and to help whittle down that list...NOT that he's involved in creating the initial list(s).


Maybe, maybe not. I'd say he already has been working on players for this upcoming draft.

Again, it's just a tool in the decision making process. Just because he lists a guy as undraftable doesn't mean we won't.

If he has gained added voice with Haslam or inside the front office it is probably because his evaluations are there for others to see, (wish we could see them), and are probably right a high percentage of the time.

If time and time again you say these are the guys who are going to do well, and these are the guys who stand a strong chance of busting, and you are right most of the time, why wouldn't you listen? Why would any of us have reason to be concerned?

It's not like he is making the choices. I will say there was a big difference between Sashi"s first draft, where Depo just came on board but was just being a observer of the process, and the second draft where he had a year to do whatever it is that he does.


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Merry Christmas Mr Williams. Here is your contract as head coach of the Clevelt Browns. Likewsie Mr Kitchens ... A contract as OC and assistant HC of the Browns.

Simple, easy decision based on the performance on the field and the players reaction and engagement to your temporary time in charge. After all what more could anyone possibly want than the performance and wins we have seen under your charge ... Taking over the team in the most unfavorable of situations.

I don't care who else is available or might become available - we think we can build a dynasty with the two of you as linchpins of the front office. The only discussion is the permanent appointment of the DC, we'd like to be aggressive and persue Dan Quinn. . . . With your son as assistant and heir apparent.


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Quote:
U think Fred is going to be a HC somewhere next year or u think he’s an OC somewhere next year? ...

Your thoughts on his chances of being a HC vs OC somewhere next year please ...



Diam I hope you don't mind me chiming in on your question to Bonefish.

Reading through everything about Freddie and what opportunities that may be presented to him with his success lately... Makes me think a little about how his success came about and would it continue without having Baker as his QB.

Freddie and Baker are working very well together..and both men are helping each other succeed...Lets say Freddie doesn't get offered the HC here...but is guaranteed to be kept on the staff as the OC.

Now the phone calls from other teams to Freddie asking to interview for a HC start coming in... Will Freddie go and interview ? Maybe... But does being a HC for another team without Baker on it appealing ?

I wonder if being an OC that has Baker as the QB is more appealing..Freddie could be taking a big risk going elsewhere and not having the QB play of Baker to help display his play calling abilities.

IMO the safest place for Freddie at this point is on the sideline with Baker who is making them both look good...For some reason I think there's a good bond between those two and it might be what keeps them together for a bit.

My thoughts on him being elsewhere next season is no he stays right where he is...another successful season in Cleveland next to Baker would really prove his abilities more so than just the half season he's had.

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Freddie took over a train wreck. Ol couldn't block, receivers couldn't catch,rookie QB that was starting to get that browns rookie QB look in his eyes.

Bottom 3
offense and we have been a top 5 offense since. That doesn't just happen. He knows it and his agent knows it and GM's around the league know it.

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OR ... dude is FULL OF CRAP ...

I’d say this reads like a fiction novel but i didnt read it ... rofl ...

From the excerpts that been posted ... not sure how u pick and choose what to believe .... ahhhh .... u believe from him the INFO U WANT TO BE TRUE ... wink ...




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Originally Posted By: DeisleDawg


Diam I hope you don't mind me chiming in on your question to Bonefish.


DON’T EVER DO IT AGAIN .... *LOL* ... guess i’ll let it slide this time ... but just this once ... wink ...

Thanks for chiming in ... and merry christmas bro ... WOOF WOOF .... thumbsup

Good points about how there helping each other and how they get along .... U could tell Bake really digs Freddie and GW from the interview on the saturday night game a few weeks back ... they have a special bond ..

And thats a GREAT POINT ... one i didn’t think of and it could play a factor ... thanks for that ... its why i come here ... thumbsup

End of the day bro ... i think your last paragraph summed it up ...

Quote:
My thoughts on him being elsewhere next season is no he stays right where he is...another successful season in Cleveland next to Baker would really prove his abilities more so than just the half season he's had.



Me thinks your heart is saying what a perfect set up this is ... i dont want it to change ... this is AWESOME and so so so MUCH FUN ... so your brain then goes out and looks for ways to justify the status quo ... your brains come up with the justification u did, while at the same time your brain is “flicking” your heart and making u feel uneasy cause your brain knows that no matter how much your heart wants it ..... theres no way in heck anyone’s gonna turn down a HC job .... *LOL* ...

Your reply is why i come here ... u made me look at things from a different angle ... I LEARNED .. u pointed out a FACTOR i overlooked ... thats seriously why i come here ... so thanks again for that ...

And while my heart would be fine with that outcome .. my brain says ... NOT A SHOT IN HECK he turns the HC job down ...

Hopefullly I’m WRONG ... i’d LOVE for him to be our OC next year ... problem is the only way i see that happening is if he has the letters OC in fron of the /OC. Playcaller ...

Thanks for replying dawg ... since it was a good one ... feel free to chine in next time i single someone else out ... *LOL* ...

MERRY CHRISTAMS BRO ...

WOOF WOOF WOOF .... thumbsup






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Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
OR ... dude is FULL OF CRAP ...

I’d say this reads like a fiction novel but i didnt read it ... rofl ...

From the excerpts that been posted ... not sure how u pick and choose what to believe .... ahhhh .... u believe from him the INFO U WANT TO BE TRUE ... wink ...


My first comment to the article was this.

"Excellent read and makes one think. I don't know how much is fact, but it is a well thought out read."

Everything I said about the article after that is predicated on my first comment. Just because you didn't read my comment or forgot isn't reason for me to keep stating it over and over.

It's a message board. Lot's of things get floated and are up for discussion. What else are we going to talk about?


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Originally Posted By: bonefish
D. This is one tough call.

In some ways it reminds me of when John Madden was first hired. At the time he was no big deal and very young (then)to be considered head coach material.

I love what he is doing with the offense. Very unpredictable. Mixes up play calling. Uses the whole field. Uses misdirection plays, screens, doesn't bail on the run game. When you look at the formations you really can not tell what the play ends up as.

Then the stats don't lie.

So we come back to Dorsey. He comes off as pragmatic guy. Even though he may have gone into this process with some predispositions he is smart enough to alter and adjust.

However, what we don't know would fill volumes. First comes how he and Freddie would work? Dorsey and Williams?

At some point Blake Williams will need to separate from his father. I like what he doing on defense.

The big factor Baker and his head coach?

Freddie has made a mark. I like that he made it clear he wants to be a head coach. He will be on the radar with his record here.

In many ways you would hate to break up what they have going.

If they win next week. Haslam may step in and say I like this winning stuff. There will be no changes.

All this will be front and center till the decision is made.

If we don't retain Freddie he will surely be called on by another team.


Thanks for the reply B ...

Merry Christmas Dawg ... hope u and yours enjoy the heck out of this day .... thumbsup

LOVED the reply til u brought the THIEF up ... *L* ... stupid reality ... logical, well thought and great points as usual from U ... you’ve been REQUIRED reading for me for as long as i can remember ... thanks for that dawg ... i’ve LEARNED a lot from u over the years and want to say THANK U for that ... thumbsup

I firmly believe the THIEF doing what he’s done so far is the only way we dont end up with someone we can win with ... you’ve said it since the day Hue/Haley got 86’d .... Dorsey needs someone he TRUSTS and has a GOOD RELATIONSHIP with ... if he’s allowed to go find that dude (or maybe there right under his nose ... as you’ve pointed out .. we have NO CLUE how they get along... they could be two peas in a pod and the process is almost a formality ... when the process starts u never know who might blow him away) ...

If Dorsey is ALLOWED to go find his guy ... IMO we’ll be just fine ... a COMPETENT GM working with a competent HC (neither need to be great) can do a lot of good things together ... u get the guys to do what coach wants ... and even a middling coach can do a lot with the proper pieces ...

Hopefully the thief stays where he belongs ... in his lane ... the “sign off” on the hire lane ... thumbsup

Merry Christmas and Thanks for all the KNOWLEDGE over the years bro ... thumbsup




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Merry Christmas my friend thumbsup

Probably would be hard to say no to a HC job... But then I look at Josh McDaniels...He did... And I'm pretty sure others have also...

My biggest question would be the FIT ? Where does Freddie FIT in ? Does he feel he could fit in elsewhere ? I'm hoping he feels he fits in BEST here... fingerscrossed

It interests me if he does go elsewhere... Who he would bring in on his staff...BUT lets not go there yet....Plenty of time to keep him interested in staying here..Til then..One more big game to play..Really want to take the ravens down !!!!

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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen


"Excellent read and makes one think. I don't know how much is fact, but it is a well thought out read."


Ya .... just like a fiction novel ... *L* ...

Merry Christmas to U and the misses Peen ... sounds like u have a great day with your family planned ... hopefull the ‘smoking” is going good and ya’all have a great day ...

Hope to meet u next year dawg ... its been a pleasure “dancing” with u over the years my friend ... thumbsup

Merry Christmas dawg ... ENJOY ... thumbsup




cfrs15 #1572749 12/25/18 11:26 AM
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Merry Christmas to you too, buddy.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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Isn’t this great bro ... week 17 and were not beaten down and in the dumps longing for the misery to end ...

WOOOOHOOOOOO .... thats not us no more dawg .... NONE of us want the season to end ... were used to that happening anywhere between weeks 3 - 8 ... *LOL* ...

I’m really looking forward to Sunday ... GREAT TEST ... and i’ll Admit ... i’m Gonna be bummed if we lose ... at the fact we lost only ... there’s been disappointments this season but in no way shape or form am i dissapointed in the season ... NONE ... it has been ONE AWESOME ASS RIDE with some bumps along the way ...

As far as Freddie goes ... must admit ... i’m not so sure i’m not getting on board the “shiny new object” train I’ve claimed others have jumped on with Riley ... then i look at Fred’s resume and what he’s done in the NFL as far as continually moving up the ranks and then what he’s done here .... and i think he is LEGITE now ... thats how I JUSTIFY my thoughts as to why he is legite ... *L* ...

Gonna be a fun off season for a change ... but let’s END THE RATS SEASON FIRST ...

LETS GOOOOOOoooooooo ... thumbsup




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D. Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Continuity?? It may become difficult to break this gang up.

However, this has to be looked at long term as well as next year. I don't envy Dorsey on this one.

I think Haslam will go along with what Dorsey says. Haslam may be many things but he is not stupid. Dorsey has proven himself. That goes a long way.

Could not more excited about the team direction.

cfrs15 #1572915 12/26/18 09:55 AM
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It's obvious to me that Williams is not a long-term solution based solely on his age. Kitchens? He's young but untested as a head coach. I'd have no problem giving Williams a five year contract with a guarantee. But he'd need to understand that part of his job will be making sure Kitchens is prepared to take his job as soon as possible. Williams stands to be the coach to do what no other coach in Cleveland has been able to do in a mighty long time, take the Browns on the road to the Promised Land. Who knows? With a couple more good drafts he could wind up coaching for a championship game. Win the Big Game and you're guaranteed a statue and free beer for life at a minimum. There's more than money at the end of the rainbow in Cleveland these days, there's a tremendous amount of ego satisfaction available for the picking.

What Kitchens needs impressed upon him is that his stock will continue to rise along with the rise of Baker Mayfield. We should pay him accordingly as an OC. Let it be known that if everything continues on this path he'll be an NFL head coach with a franchise quarterback and a chance to have his name spoken in the same conversation as the name "Paul Brown". Kitchens has to see that he's part of something that will be the stuff of NFL legends if he continues to succeed. Or he can jump ship and go try to save some dumpster fire elsewhere.

It's going to take money, lots and lots of money, to keep a contented and stable coaching staff at this point.

Baker Mayfield is the key. It's going to take people who can and will work to get the very most of out him. At this point we've got to hitch our wagon to him. No more waiting to see. No more draft speculation. Whoever coaches here has to understand that.


"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
cfrs15 #1572949 12/26/18 11:16 AM
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Kitchens took an OL giving up record sacks, a rookie QB that was losing his confidence, a receiving core that couldnt catch a freaking cold and made it into one of the most exciting offenses in the league. Baker is probably gonna break the rookie TD record and could end up with a freaking 95 rating!!

You either make him HC or someone else will. I love Greg williams but he can get another DC job, he isnt going to get another HC job. Kitchens is going to get the call and we just have to decide if it is with us or not. He is going to be this years Gase, McVay.

3 options to chose from

Option 1.
Keep Greg and look to bring in a new OC and hope he works well with Baker because freddie will be gone.

Option 2.
Promote freddie to HC and try to satisfy Greg with a raise ASS. HC Title/Defense or go out and get a DC that fits what you want to run. Its not fair to Williams but to steal a line from Highlander, there can be only one,

Option 3
just blow the whole damn thing up and start fresh and I just dont see that one happening with the Haslams and with how this team responds to these coaches.

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Option 4 ... Fred as HC and pass over GW for his kid if were gonna have a Williams as DC i’d rather have the LESS AGGRESSIVE youngin ... thumbsup




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I don't think 2 is a realistic option. I think it would be tough for the players to know who's voice to follow in that scenario.

I think it's more an option 4, promote Kitchens to HC and let him pick his staff.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
cfrs15 #1572958 12/26/18 11:25 AM
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IMO at least some of the offensive improvement is due to Williams improved discipline and work ethic, also I really do not see Freddie going from Running Backs coach to HC with 8 games at OC in between.

There is also an element of Baker making Freddie look good, where a lesser QB maybe not so much.

My Plan - You ask GW how long he wants to continue to coach, you ask Freddie how long he is willing to wait to be a head coach, and also if he really, really thinks he is ready to be a HC right now, then you determine a payment amount that makes those two numbers match up.

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Originally Posted By: Mourgrym
Kitchens took an OL giving up record sacks, a rookie QB that was losing his confidence, a receiving core that couldnt catch a freaking cold and made it into one of the most exciting offenses in the league. Baker is probably gonna break the rookie TD record and could end up with a freaking 95 rating!!

You either make him HC or someone else will. I love Greg williams but he can get another DC job, he isnt going to get another HC job. Kitchens is going to get the call and we just have to decide if it is with us or not. He is going to be this years Gase, McVay.

3 options to chose from

Option 1.
Keep Greg and look to bring in a new OC and hope he works well with Baker because freddie will be gone.

Option 2.
Promote freddie to HC and try to satisfy Greg with a raise ASS. HC Title/Defense or go out and get a DC that fits what you want to run. Its not fair to Williams but to steal a line from Highlander, there can be only one,

Option 3
just blow the whole damn thing up and start fresh and I just dont see that one happening with the Haslams and with how this team responds to these coaches.


Option 4, Bring in a new head coach, but try to keep the current group together.

Like Arians, Kitchens, Williams, (new special teams coord.) or something like that.

cfrs15 #1572964 12/26/18 11:31 AM
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I don't buy the kitchens as HC. I think Williams has just as much to do with the success as kitchens. I think the best option is just stay the course, kitchens already has Ass. HC title so he can only leave for a full time HC gig, i'm not ready to do that yet


Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Originally Posted By: Nelson37


There is also an element of Baker making Freddie look good, where a lesser QB maybe not so much.


Thats a two way street dawg ... its no one way street ...

Bake certainly didn’t make Haley look good ... andits not like Haley was some bum O mind from out of no where ...

Naaa ... two way street dawg ... MUTUALLY BENIFICIAL relationship there dawg ...

What i would be truely curious ot know ... given his history with both ... would Bake pick Freddie or Riley ... not that I think that will or should matter ... would just be curious to see who he’d pick if push did come to shove ...




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Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Option 4 ... Fred as HC and pass over GW for his kid if were gonna have a Williams as DC i’d rather have the LESS AGGRESSIVE youngin ... thumbsup


rolleyes ya, that'll happen.

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Originally Posted By: Nelson37
IMO at least some of the offensive improvement is due to Williams improved discipline and work ethic, also I really do not see Freddie going from Running Backs coach to HC with 8 games at OC in between.

There is also an element of Baker making Freddie look good, where a lesser QB maybe not so much.

My Plan - You ask GW how long he wants to continue to coach, you ask Freddie how long he is willing to wait to be a head coach, and also if he really, really thinks he is ready to be a HC right now, then you determine a payment amount that makes those two numbers match up.


This makes the most sense. We have a coaching staff that will be 7-2 or 6-3, and a team with tremendous upside that responds and performs well to them. Don't fix what ain't broke!!!


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

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