DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trump EPA acts to roll back control on climate-changing coal

Conservatives would roll back laws on domestic violence if they could make a buck off of it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-epa-pro...--politics.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Environmental Protection Agency moved Tuesday to further ease rules on the sagging U.S. coal industry, this time scaling back what would have been a tough control on climate-changing emissions from any new coal plants.

The latest Trump administration targeting of legacy Obama administration efforts to slow climate change comes in the wake of multiplying warnings from the agency's scientists and others about the accelerating toll of global warming.

In a ceremony at the agency, acting EPA administrator Andrew Wheeler signed a proposal to dismantle a 2015 rule that any new coal power plants include cutting-edge techniques to cap the carbon dioxide from their smokestacks.


Wheeler called the Obama rules "excessive burdens" for the coal industry.

"This administration cares about action and results, not talks and wishful thinking," Wheeler said.

Asked about the harm that coal plant emission do people and the environment, Wheeler responded, "Having cheap electricity helps human health."

Janet McCabe, an EPA air official under the Obama administration, challenged that in a statement Thursday, citing the conclusion of the EPA's own staff earlier this year that pending rollbacks on existing coal plants would cause thousands of early deaths from the fine soot and dangerous particles and gases.

The EPA was "turning its back on its responsibility to protect human health," McCabe said.

Environmentalists, scientists and lawmakers were scathing about the new proposal, saying the Trump administration was undermining what they said should be urgent efforts to slow climate change.

The EPA and 12 other federal agencies late last month warned that climate change caused by burning coal, oil and gas already was worsening natural disasters in the United States, and would cause hundreds of billions of dollars in damage each year by the end of the century.

"This proposal is another illegal attempt by the Trump administration to prop up an industry already buckling under the powerful force of the free market," Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, a Rhode Island Democrat and member of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, said in a statement. "Did the EPA even read the National Climate Assessment?" Whitehouse asked, referring to last month's climate report.

It's unclear whether the new policy boost will overcome market forces making coal plants increasingly unprofitable.

Competition from cleaner, cheaper natural gas and other rival forms of energy has driven down coal use in the United States to its lowest level since 1979, the Energy Information Administration said this week. This year will see the second-greatest number of U.S. closings of coal-fired power plants on record.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, said the EPA's action Thursday was "targeting another regulation that would have made it nearly impossible to build any new plants."

Citing that and other Obama administration moves to tamp down emissions from coal-fired power plants in the national electrical grid, McConnell called the proposal "a crucial step toward undoing the damage and putting coal back on a level playing field."

Other, already-proposed Trump administration initiatives rolling aback climate change efforts would undo an Obama plan intended to shift the national electrical grid away from coal and toward cleaner-burning solar and wind power, and relax pending tougher mileage standards for cars and light trucks.

Jay Duffy, a lawyer with the Clean Air Task Force environmental nonprofit, called the level-playing field argument of the administration and its supporters "laughable."

"In every rulemaking, they're placing their thumbs on the scale to prop up coal, at the expense of public health and the environment," Duffy said.

Speaking alongside Wheeler at a news conference, Michelle Bloodworth of the coal industry group America's Power contended the new rollback could throw a lifeline to domestic coal-fired power producers.

"It does appear that this proposal would make it feasible for new coal plants" to be built, Bloodworth said.

Calm down there bro it’s just Republicans smoking coal for their hi

This could be really good news for Southern Ohio, West Virginia, and Eastern Kentucky.

You mean more pipe dreams.

Whats wrong with dreaming after hitting a pipe?

Absolutely nothing bro.

Unless you live in West Virginia. Do that in the mine, guaranteed respiratory problems.

The horse and buggy, I mean coal industry isn't coming back. Natural gas is cheaper and cleaner. It's not complicated and all of Individual 1's rants won't change that.

Liberals hate cheap energy. Jobs for Americans.

The Market decided this already.
Leave it to Individual Orange to try to make a clock run backward.

Yeah well if that weren't a lie it would be great. lmao

I know you don't like facts but natural gas is more efficient and cleaner. And you do realize that when more natural gas gets produced and less coal gets produced, those jobs just increase in the natural gas sector as they decrease in the coal industry, right? That we don't really lose jobs, they just move to another place.

I know, it's math and it's hard.

The history of our nation and the world shows anyone with eyes to see it that as we progress as people, industry changes. Progress moves on. Those who wish to cling to the past get left behind.

I disagree with your take. It is non sense. There is an abundance of coal. I guess you believed Obama when he said Manufacturing jobs would not come back also?

Dinosaurs went extinct. They've powered cars and electric plants for 100 years.

They are about to go extinct again

So if the Libs accomplish this what Industry will they try to kill next?

So you disagree that as jobs are lost in the coal industry that even more jobs are gained in natural gas, solar and wind energy jobs? Or is it that you disagree that as time goes on, mankind changes in its development and some industries fall off as other industries take the forefront?

And why do you feel some need to bring Obama up in a discussion that has nothing to do with Obama? Oh I remember, it's just what you guys do. Let's try dealing with some actual facts, shall we?

Analysts who spoke with POWER differ slightly on the numbers, but they all agree that U.S. demand for natural gas for power generation will continue to rise. Supply should not be a problem—domestic production is at record levels—and prices should remain low, prompting generators to build more gas-fired units as market forces batter coal and nuclear operators.

Natural gas surpassed coal as the dominant fuel for U.S. power generation in April 2015, and each source supplied about a third of U.S. electricity that year—a far cry from just a few years earlier, when coal-fired generation accounted for more than half of the nation’s electricity production.

https://www.powermag.com/future-looks-bright-for-gas-fired-generation/

Coal-To-Gas Plant Conversions in the U.S.

https://www.power-eng.com/articles/print...in-the-u-s.html

So you can spout "Obama" or have your "feelings about it".

But hardly any new power plants are using coal. The vast majority are gas. Even power plants that were fueled by coal are being converted to natural gas. It's a matter of supply and demand. The demand for coal is slowly dying. It's being dictated by the market.

As much as some of you wish to make it a political issue, it really isn't. And nothing you do or say will change that.

What part about the market dictates supply and demand can't you comprehend?

Yeah, all of this multi million and billion dollar power companies are liberals. That's why they are switching over to natural gas. It's not because it's more profitable and better for their shareholders bottom line. Do you even hear yourself?

Go away, Rush Limbaugh

Cannot stand it when someone speaks the truth about the destruction of the Liberals in this country.

The problem is you aren’t speaking the truth. I can’t stand liars, yes. So please, do the board a favor and stop peddling nonsense.

Trumpian Politics.

Case closed.

Been there done that

I offer republicans and the south an opportunity to lay down your arms. I’m taking your coal jobs, and turning them into wind and solar jobs. It’s coming, I’m also coming for your semi automatic rifles, yep.

I’m protecting biodversity, the species that can’t speak for themself.

Been smokin' that Ft. Collins weed, have ya Buck?

Certainly better than that West Virginia meth the individual 1 supporters love.

This is a tough one for me, I really don’t want to burn more fossil fuels, but we are going to burn them regardless. I always find it funny when someone is “plugging in” their car…..oh how green of you, excuse me sir, do you know where that electricity comes from?

The Paris Agreement was one huge L for us, the whole holding ourselves to high standards while literally no one else was, is bad business. Further regulating ourselves beyond that killed that industry just as much as the market did so I’m not sure it’s fair to say the market killed it. It is most definitely one of the reasons Trump won the election, so this is something he has to do as it will create jobs.

I don’t think we make as big of an impact on climate change as progressives want you to believe, there is big money to make on this…..it draws apt comparisons to being the new “Military Industrial complex”. Something they can perpetually throw money at, literally forever and anyone who disagrees with that spending doesn’t care about our children! All the while making themselves rich on backhanded government contracts and lobbyists.

There is no right answer here, yes this will create jobs, yes we have been holding ourselves to an almost unfair standard compared to the rest of the world. Do I want to compete to the detriment of our air quality, definitely not. Are we going to make a significant difference by further regulating, can’t say that either.

Actually this administration has taken steps to deregulate coal and the impact has been zero. And while I know you may see it as some kind of disadvantage, even China is now on board and leads the globe at producing renewable energy.

I'm not sure how anyone can blame anything other than the market on the increasing demise of the coal industry. And renewable energy has produced far more new jobs than coal has lost.

It's actually been a huge win in terms of jobs but it plays very well in areas where people actually believe our nation will move backwards in terms of energy demands.

I don't think enough time has lapsed to make a call on the impact and it is in my opinion a disadvantage to regulated ourselves, to what extent I am not an expert. The simplicity of regulating ourselves while others had/do not suggests so. I haven't looked at any of the numbers. It certainly plays well to older coal based areas the idea of bringing back coal.

China, they also produce more than 4 times as much coal as the next (US) highest. While being less than 2x the amount (I looked these up) of renewable more than the next (US). It's great that they are on board but when you look at the top 10 producers, do any of those countries actually impose there regulations?

My point is, that I don't think they are mutually exclusive, we can increase coal exports and continue to create renewable energy jobs. It has become so politicized that it has become this "either or" situation. My math is fuzzy but adding the top 10 producers ALONE we produce less than 13% of the only the top 10, extrapolate that over the top 20, it's likely single digit coal output.

In my opinion that is an untapped market that can create jobs independent of renewable energy.



https://www.climaterealityproject.org/bl...enewable-energy

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-top-10-coal-producers-worldwide.html

Drawing coorelations, the south will answer for slavery, segregation, and anthropogenic climate change?

Yes I am keeping score.
You guys have explaining to do, you know who you are.

Meanwhile in the rest of the forward thinking world...
Germany Closes Its Last Active Coal Mine, Ending 200-year-old Industry
http://fortune.com/2018/12/21/germany-cl..._jeqq9UPm1WmKGo

You all know why he's killing the EPA don't you? I mean, seriously, if you can't figure out he's being paid in some fashion for doing so, you are blind.

Business and Industry constantly say that regulations eat away at their bottom line. Yeah, I can see it, but if they would self police, they'd be no reason to have any regulations.

Greed is killing us all..

I doubt he’s being paid in some fashion.

Trump is a simpleton who is unable to grasp basic concepts. He’s also incredibly lazy, and isn’t interested in his job outside of media attention.

He basically just lets others around him implement whatever policies they want, while he watches cable news and shouts on Twitter about everyone being mean and unfair to him.

If the people who surround him were insistent on diametrically opposite policies, he’d parrot the diametrically opposite policy. He doesn’t really have any firm ideology outside of a desperate need to be liked and praised by the media.

Unless the jobs are given to illegal immigrants for their voter base. Then they're for it.

“Illegal immigrants for their voter base”.

Your bizarre and incoherent “OK, there wasn’t a popular mandate, but there really was” rambling from yesterday makes a little more sense now.

I know they can't show it on tv anymore because of politics, but anybody who ever saw an episode of "the apprentice" knows your above statement on Trumps gullibility is wrong.

(From the movie "My Cousin Vinny" , , His entire opening statement that got stricken from the record Applies.) which was,
They woke him up, to give his opening statement, he said, " ya everything that guy just said is bs, thank you"


" Councils entire opening statement, with the exception of "Thank You" will be stricken from the record"

This is unintelligible gibberish.

“If you would’ve seen Trump fake-fire Sinbad on the game show he hosted after the banks forced him to stop running his company into the ground, you would know that he’s not the confused simpleton that he quite obviously is. Here’s a quote from “My Cousin Vinny”.”

“Oh, you think Trump’s a gullible idiot? You wouldn’t think that if you saw the game show he hosted” has to be in the top 3 dumbest Trump takes ever uttered on this board.

The only ones I can think of off the top of my head that were more ludicrous was 40’s “Trump would’ve ran into the Parkland shooting unarmed to stop it because he has the heart of a lion” and Diam’s “when the banks forced Trump to relinquish the decision making rights of his company because he kept entering into horrible investment deals, it was actually a sign of his business genius”.

No, no no.

You got it all twisted and backwards as usual!

It went something like this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zarvRldszWs&list=RDzarvRldszWs&start_radio=1

What, exactly, does a creepy YouTube video have to do with the day you made a fool of yourself by saying Trump would’ve ran into the Parkland shooting unarmed to save the kids?

Did I really just witness somebody trying to use an apprentice episode to defend trump?

Did that really just happen?