DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hue or Hubris, you decide

I remember reading over and over that Dorsey didn't believe in RBs and WRs that early. I'm not saying Hue didn't want mayfield but rather it seemed an RB would be out of Dorsey's norm.

Yes. This.

And Memphis is right... more Hue trying to save face. He really wants that Bengals job.

Oh Hue.....

From what I gathered, the coaching staff coveted Rosen and settled on Darnold. The front office and analytics guys were all in on Mayfield.

Can you provide a link, please?

Shouldn’t We Know the Browns’ Draft Pick by Now?
With two days until the draft, the identity of the no. 1 pick is typically the NFL’s worst-kept secret. But this year, Cleveland GM John Dorsey has refused to offer any clues.
By Riley McAtee Apr 24, 2018, 6:00am EDT
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For the past few weeks, NFL analysts have gone back and forth over the top pick in the draft: Will the Browns select Sam Darnold or boom-or-bust candidate Josh Allen? Normally as the draft approaches, the smoke begins to clear and a favorite takes hold, either because there is one player that is obviously the top prospect or the top team’s thinking gets leaked. Last year, Myles Garrett was the clear top choice despite some Mitch Trubisky smoke, Jared Goff emerged as the no. 1 selection in 2016, Jameis Winston was a no-brainer in 2015, Jadeveon Clowney was the consensus pick in 2014, and that’s generally how it goes. This year, just two days from the start of the draft on Thursday, there is still no clarity. And it’s not just that the smoke hasn’t cleared—things are cloudier than ever, as yet another candidate for the top pick emerged Monday: Baker Mayfield.

There are plenty of reasons the Browns would consider Mayfield. As RotoGrinders’ Kevin Cole pointed out on Twitter, Andrew Healy, a senior strategist with Cleveland, created a statistical model, QBASE, that rates Mayfield as the fourth-best quarterback prospect since 1997. For all the arguments in Mayfield’s favor, his name is a surprise late addition to a race that theoretically should be narrowing as we get closer and closer to draft night.

Perhaps the driving factor behind all the uncertainty is that no one seems to know what Cleveland’s general manager, John Dorsey, is thinking. And recent history suggests he won’t leave any clues as to what he’ll do.

Dorsey, who was the general manager of the Chiefs from 2013 to 2017, played his last quarterback selection close to the vest. Trading up 17 spots to select Patrick Mahomes II with the 10th pick last year was a stunning move; Kansas City still had a 32-year-old Alex Smith and a roster primed for immediate success. Prior to the draft, there was no indication that the Chiefs were planning to be that aggressive, and this year nothing is leaking out again. Dorsey reportedly won’t even tell head coach Hue Jackson whom he’s selecting.

Meanwhile, guesses are hard to make because no quarterback has emerged as the consensus top pick. Each one has different skills and traits, but none is clearly head and shoulders above the field. But Dorsey’s history can’t even tell us what kind of quarterback he prefers. Mahomes, who was widely touted for his rocket arm strength coming into last year’s draft, has a clear analogue in this year’s QB crop: Allen. But that hardly means Dorsey loves big-armed passers. He began his tenure in Kansas City by trading a second-round pick for Smith, who before 2017 had a reputation as a check-down enthusiast. Are there two quarterbacks in the NFL more different than Smith and Mahomes?

Adding to the murkiness is the passer Dorsey brought to Cleveland in March: Tyrod Taylor. Dorsey traded a third-round pick for Taylor, who (like pre-2017 Smith) has a well-worn reputation as a game manager. In addition to bringing in the veteran this offseason, Dorsey traded away DeShone Kizer, last year’s second-round pick who has a big arm and all the physical tools but couldn’t find success as a rookie in Cleveland. The other quarterbacks Dorsey acquired in Kansas City (Chase Daniel, Aaron Murray, Kevin Hogan, and Nick Foles) are a mixed bag of strong-armed and mechanically flawed guys. The only common thread among all of these players is that they play quarterback.

Unsurprisingly, Dorsey’s few public comments leading up to this year’s draft have been cryptic. Last week, he said he thinks “hand size is important,” which would point toward Allen and his 10⅛-inch hands, but Mahomes’s relatively small 9¼-inch hands didn’t prevent Dorsey from selecting him. (For what it’s worth, Mayfield measured with 9¼-inch hands and Darnold has 9⅜-inch hands.)

In the same press conference, Dorsey mentioned the importance of a strong arm, which would also indicate Allen, but then he mentioned accuracy … which isn’t Allen’s strength, to say the least. He highlighted the importance of throwing into “red zone windows,” which Allen, Mayfield, and Darnold are all strong at, then also said, “At the end of the game, does he win? That’s what I look for.” (He made similar comments in January.) Well, no one at the top of this draft has won more than Mayfield (39-9 career record between Oklahoma and Texas Tech), but, then again, Mahomes and Smith weren’t exactly heralded as “winners” before heading to Kansas City. It’s time to get off the ride because we’re just going in circles.

Dorsey doesn’t seem to have a “type,” there is no consensus top quarterback in this draft, and nothing reliable is leaking out of Cleveland. It’s the perfect storm for a whirlwind of uncertainty, and based on his history, that’s exactly how Dorsey wants it to be.


https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/4/24/...ion-john-dorsey

I'm still waiting for this link. It seems that there are a few posters running w/this line of thought.

I could be wrong and am hoping you guys can prove me wrong, but I seem to remember that Dorsey was very secretive over who would be our first overall draft pick and there weren't any leaks.

Was I dreaming about all of that or are some posters making things up again?

On the Cecil & Pritchard show on 104.3 The Fan, McCloughan reiterated that he'd take Mayfield over a field that includes Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen and Josh Allen. He also repeated that Mayfield reminds him of Brett Favre, with whom he spent six years in Green Bay.

"I was lucky enough to have been around Favre, and I've gotten to know Baker pretty well just by watching him," McCloughan said, via The Washington Post. "There's some off-field stuff, but nothing too hairy. College kids are college kids. It's not like he's doing anything really bad.

"But he is a competitive guy. He wears it on his sleeve from the standpoint of emotions. He plays with strength throughout his body, and the fact that he's just a football player -- it's impressive. It's a really good class this year coming out in the draft for quarterbacks. But I know this, if I was going to play one game tomorrow, he'd be my guy -- hands down."

"A little bit shorter than everyone's perfect idea of a quarterback, but we didn't feel like that necessarily contributed to any negative play,'' said Wolf.

Added Highsmith: "We throw out all the traits what it takes to be a quarterback when someone doesn't measure up to somebody's standards, and I've always wondered when it comes to being a good football player, whose standards are we judging them by? It's about playing the game. It's about being a good football player."

Chimed in Wolf: "It's about wins."

Added Highsmith: "It is about wins. Mayfield made of all of those checks to me and had the 'it' factor to me.''

Mayfield beat out first-round rivals Sam Darnold of USC, Josh Allen of Wyoming and Josh Rosen of UCLA.

"The thing for me when I was scouting him, I just thought he was the best guy,'' said Wolf. "Obviously, the organization thought that, as well. He has tremendous anticipation. He has a great arm, a quick release. He can see the field. He's a winner. All of those things throughout the process combined together and led us to our decision."

Per King, GM John Dorsey tasked his top lieutenants -- assistant GM Eliot Wolfe and consultant Scot McCloughan, formerly of the Redskins -- with grading and ranking the top four quarterbacks: Mayfield, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen and Sam Darnold. The idea was to get an independent grade from all three men to avoid any unconscious bias in the evaluation.

All three of them ranked Mayfield first, and Dorsey/Wolfe -- who both hail from the Packers organization -- had the exact same grade on Mayfield: 8.5 out of 9, an extremely high scouting grade. Even more interesting is that Wolfe used his report from when he was in Green Bay, last fall. So it's not like he was desperate to talk anyone into Mayfield; the Packers had Aaron Rodgers.

When the GM compared the three reports he noted not only that all three men rated Mayfield first, but also this: Wolf's grade was identical to Dorsey's 8.5 on the 1.0-to-9.0 scouting scale they'd learned with the Packers. (Dorsey retained the grading system with the Chiefs and now in Cleveland.) An 8.5 is worthy of a top 10 pick in any draft. "Keep in mind," Wolf says, "I had no horse in the race. I was in Green Bay. We weren't taking a quarterback in the first round. But to me, Mayfield was clearly the best guy." McCloughan graded on a different scale, where the lower the number the better, and he gave Mayfield a 1.1. That, in Packers parlance, is roughly an 8.5.

In other words, it wasn't hard for the trio to get on the same page. The reports, the analytics and the eye test all matched up: Mayfield was the guy.

How is he not making things up? Serious question.

I think he made that up so others would read it, believe it, and repeat it.

For example, he is the same poster who contributed this nugget. will made a statement that he thought Hue was trying to help Cinci by trading picks for McCarron. A couple of people balked.

Haus then talked about how Hue did the same thing while w/Oakland when he knew he was going to be fired. A few posters picked up on that and ran w/that [I don't blame them. One of them was oober, who is a good poster, but he was just going by what he read.]

The problem w/all of that is that when Hue traded for Palmer, he was 4 and 2 and the toast of the town. There was ZERO talk of him being fired. Thus, it is safe to assume he acquired Palmer because he thought he could help him win.

Oh, and another thing that was not mentioned. Hue helped recruit Palmer to USC. There was a history there.

Look man............the deceptions and lies are at an all-time high on this board. We never used to allow that crap. I think we should bring back those time.

Disagreeing is fine. Debate is great. Lies and deception are BS! They should stop!

You aren't buying it because you are biased. Baker called Hue "fake." He trashed him in the media after the first game.

I had no problem w/him not hugging Hue, but his punk-ass antics in the media and the taunting is immature. I am not surprised certain posters like that type of behavior.

I will also add that the announcer said that Hue "politely declined" to comment on Baker's actions and comments when they asked him about it.

Class vs Ass.

So, Hue is class and Baker's an ass. WTF team do you root for?

He "politely declined" to comment on Baker's actions and comments after spending 2.5 years throwing Browns players, coaches, and front office under the bus. What a guy.

I have no idea what the hell you are even talking about. What posts?

Dude, you lie all the time. That is why I don't want to talk to you and you are one of the major reasons I stopped talking about the Browns. Stop telling lies!

Can you provide a link, please?

I'm still waiting for this link. It seems that there are a few posters running w/this line of thought.

I could be wrong and am hoping you guys can prove me wrong, but I seem to remember that Dorsey was very secretive over who would be our first overall draft pick and there weren't any leaks.

Was I dreaming about all of that or are some posters making things up again?

Oh............and since I am not a liar..........I will provide a link to back-up what I claimed:

[lengthy post which was meant to convey that there was uncertainty in the front office about who to take. Of course, Dorsey ended up picking Mayfield, a fact which was apparently lost on Vers]

I will be waiting for the link from Haus and Company.

How is he not making things up? Serious question.

I think he made that up so others would read it, believe it, and repeat it.

For example, he is the same poster who contributed this nugget. will made a statement that he thought Hue was trying to help Cinci by trading picks for McCarron. A couple of people balked.

Haus then talked about how Hue did the same thing while w/Oakland when he knew he was going to be fired. A few posters picked up on that and ran w/that [I don't blame them. One of them was oober, who is a good poster, but he was just going by what he read.]

The problem w/all of that is that when Hue traded for Palmer, he was 4 and 2 and the toast of the town. There was ZERO talk of him being fired. Thus, it is safe to assume he acquired Palmer because he thought he could help him win.

Oh, and another thing that was not mentioned. Hue helped recruit Palmer to USC. There was a history there.

Look man............the deceptions and lies are at an all-time high on this board. We never used to allow that crap. I think we should bring back those time.

Disagreeing is fine. Debate is great. Lies and deception are BS! They should stop!

I'm still waiting for this link. It seems that there are a few posters running w/this line of thought.

I could be wrong and am hoping you guys can prove me wrong, but I seem to remember that Dorsey was very secretive over who would be our first overall draft pick and there weren't any leaks.

Was I dreaming about all of that or are some posters making things up again?