DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum End of the Season Rookie QB Stats/Comparisons

I know one poster who misrepresents what others are saying.

Have it your way, arch. I'll stop posting on this thread. I'm sure that you have much more to offer than I do in regards to the nuances of the play.

Vers has conceded it should have been caught. He's just saying it wasn't a perfect pass.

It wasn't.

Baker's TD to Jarvis wasn't a perfect pass either.

Baker was a little off against Baltimore. I think he was a little nervous about their D getting to him.

I'm fairly freaking sure I said it wasn't a perfect pass as well.

Go back and check.

Hell, I would argue the TD to Perriman could have had a little mustard taken off. One foot farther and Perriman doesn't get two feet in.

Baker was amped and nervous. I won't say jittery. Just amped and nervous. His first two picks were really bad throws.

I'll do it for you:

Then what are you guys arguing about?

Everyone agrees it wasn't a perfect pass.

Everyone agrees Jarvis should have caught it.

Is there anything else?

This quote, from vers:

Look, a certain poster is ticked that Hue was let go, so .........foolishness ensues.





I'd love to hear what Landry had to say about that drop.

I'm not some ex stud running back, college coach, scout, etc.

I got to call it like it is. I think you are reaching here, and Vers criticism has nothing to do with Hue.

According to Ballpeen, I haven't played a sport past 8 years old so I'm just spitballing here, but Vers's assessment of what happened is spot on to me. I never even considered blaming Jarvis for the drop quite honestly. It was under thrown and to the outside of where Jarvis was expecting. It was just an unfortunate play that both sides, QB and receiver, could have done better.

We should be talking about his last pass to Jarvis, then the entire board can get mad at me.

Go read the other thread ... i said ... vice grips should have caught that ball ...

It was not a bad throw by any stretch but it certainly wasn’t a good one ... 3 or 4 yards to either side of vice grips gives him an ANGLE and amuch better shot than the ball coming directly over his head ...

He should have adjusted to it ... its not that easy ... anyone thats ever played the middle infield in baseball can tell u that ... balls hit directly over your head are the hardest play for them to make cause theres NO ANGLE ... now VG had more time to adjust than a middle infielder but he was also running full speed while trying to track it ...

My conclusion was it was SIMPLY BAD LUCK ... if it don’t hit his face mask its a TD ...

Dude on here was just taking a cheap shot ... so i replied in kind ...

Happy New Year to U and yours arch ...

I should know better, but............

I have ZERO problem w/Hue being fired. I supported him, but the team played better w/out him. So, you can stick that one where the sun doesn't shine.

I have already said that Landry should have caught the ball and that he would probably say he should have caught the ball.

arch.......you constantly try and start stuff w/me. You follow me around. You try and get others to join in. You trash my family. It's all very weird.

Will you please leave me alone? I don't want to fight w/you. But, I don't like when you misrepresent what I am saying. Please stop? Please?

I would have PMed that to arch, but I have in the past and it didn't work so well and I even asked the refs about PMs, but never received a reply.

And I've said it wasn't a perfect throw, but honestly, it was a pass that even a semi decent high school receiver adjusts to and makes the catch.

Fairly simple. Perfect throw? Nope. Should've been caught? Yup. It's not like it was a pass in traffic.

*LOL* ... well beneath u arch ... i hope your just having a bad night and this is not who u are ...

Night Arch ...

WOOF WOOF!!!!!

I only speak truth.

Let it go ... not worth it ...

I know u .. your blood pressures up .. is this really worth it ... lots of other threads to go to ..

JUST DO IT ... *L* ...

I don't know what either said about the play but I'd expect Landry to say he should have caught it and Baker to say he should have thrown it better.

Anyone else find it funny that the big "AFC North" qbs like Darnold and Allen got hurt and the small and thin guys like Baker and Lamar never missed a beat?

Just remember: size is not a skill.

I wouldn't say it's "funny." I would say that two have much better OL's than the other two.

I will say that the guy everyone worried about in regards to durability was Josh Rosen. No qb in recent memory has taken a more severe beating than he did this year, but somehow he played each game after he was named the starter. I will also say that Arizona better upgrade that OL in a big way because they are going to ruin him if they don't. That's not an evaluation on the guy. That is just common sense. No one can endure that many hits. That is especially true for a young pup.

I think that we have a good symbiosis between QB and OL.

The OL does a nice job blocking, and when someone breaks through, Baker does a nice job moving in the pocket, or scrambling.

I haven't had an opportunity to watch Rosen much. Does he get the ball out of his hands quickly, or is he holding it too long?

I agree w/what you said about our situation.

He can get rid of it quickly, but he's throwing too many interceptions. But, the main thing is that he rarely has any time to throw and is taking some huge shots while he is throwing.

I've watched Eli Manning lose his nerve because he has taken so many shots in the last few years. I saw the same thing w/guys like David Carr and Tim Couch. I just think Arizona better do something quick in regards to the OL and their offensive play calling because they invested a high pick in Rosen and he has obviously flashed his talents, but man, you can't allow your qb to take that many big hits.

Absolutely. It wasn’t a perfect pass for sure and I agree with your assessment.

My problem is when someone tries to say a 35 yard pass from his own end zone that hits the WR in the face mask was “inaccurate”. This isn’t a pass/fail test but some try to act like it is.... passes must be perfect to be considered accurate. It seems Baker needs to be perfect to be considered accurate and it’s not a standard even many of the elite QBs can boast. He IS an accurate QB but no he isn’t perfect. That throw definitely could have been better but not by much.. very close to great and definitely catchable.

Man, I always remember Charlie Frye behind our OL, then DA for the rest of the year. I think we gave up something like 20 sacks for the whole year, but 6 were against Frye, in his only half of play for the Browns that year.

I'll have to watch Rosen when his games come on NFL Network. I cannot understand why a team would throw a 1st round QB behind a junk OL.

One thing I'll add about Baker, I have been shocked and surprised at how fast Baker can process some things, and get the ball out. I think he might develop elite level skill there as he learns the NFL more and more.

I think some people try and take a reply to a very specific comment and then forget it was about a specific comment and try to make wide-sweeping evaluations of what others are thinking.

I hear you about the Frye/DA comparision, but Bradford was faring even worse than Rosen behind that OL. The telling thing is that the OL only got worse.

Five OL starters were lost and as of Dec. 5th, 8 different OL combinations had been used. I did a quick search and didn't see anything, but I think I heard an announcer say that 10 OL combinations were used for the year.

That's rough.

Yeah, that's ugly, for sure.

I like how everyone managed to say nice things about all the other QBs, yet the guy who’s actually in the playoffs gets back handed compliments combined with “well, I dunno if he’s gonna make it”

Since the draft, I have refrained from mentioning what Lamar is because I wanted to stick to football as much as possible, but it’s increaidngly seeming like some of y’all might have other reasons you don’t like Lamar which has nothing to do with football.

I said something nice about Lamar. I think I said that I believe all five of those qbs have a real shot at being good.

I think he needs to evolve as a passer, but the team is winning w/him, the coaching staff and players believe in him, and he has that "it" factor.

I saw him make a beautiful throw a couple of weeks ago to a TE that was extremely accurate. Threw it over the underneath coverage and dropped it in ahead of the deep coverage while hitting the dude in stride. Very impressive.

I've not chimed in an anything 'Lamar' on this board, but I want to say that Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl and I've never had anything nice to say about that guy...ever. Dilfer was never a good QB...but he won the Super Bowl.

I prefer QBs in the NFL who are better at throwing the ball than they are at running the ball. Simple as that.

Or maybe some people simply have a different opinion and other people take offense to that as if they are being dissed in some way.

i was rough on allen during the draft process.

but allen showed cam newton potential. thats dangerous. and he was playing with some truly bum receivers and an injured mccoy.

if they bring back mccoy, and get allen real talent at WR......ask the Vikings whats gonna happen.

Lamar has 3 ints on the season. If we had a QB who threw 3 ints in a year, then many would make children after him.

Lamar is a good decision maker. His ability their is what it is, but he's not throwing picks, which keep anyone in a game. I get that he might get injured, but we'll see. He looks a lot stronger than any of the QBs with his skillset. and as I said last year, if you have a franchise QB, he's going to get a season ending injury eventually in 16+ games over 10-20 years. D linemen are just way too big.

good point.

the the QBs im trying to think that didn't have a major injury over the course of his career is Eli manning? Wilson so far is really durable, but he still has ton of seasons left and is currently in his prime. maybe Rivers?

Wentz is already getting there twice. Luck already had the injuries. Rodgers can't stay healthy. peyton had the neck thing, etc etc.

funny how you quoted half the sentence, and left out the other half:



cause your post pretty much enforced that second half of the sentence. facts.

Time after time in this league it has been proven that unless you're built like Cam Newton and Josh Allen, you won't last in this league running all over the place. Even then, Cam has been struggling last year and this year with a shoulder, that's two seasons marred by injuries and he is only 29 years old......


Lamar is explosive, he can throw it enough but I looked it up because someone on Twitter was trying to tell me he has "brought them back with his arm" on many occasions. That is flat out, not accurate.

Down only 8 points versus Bengals
Down 7 in Q1 versus Raiders - never trailed after
Down 3 - Falcons, 2nd half never trailed
Down 7 against KC - led in Q4, loss
TB - down 6, Q1, never trailed after that
LAC- down 4 Q3, never trailed after
CLE - Down 3 in Q1 - never trailed after


In all of his starts he has never been down by more than 1TD at ANY point. That defense has allowed him to be able to keep running it even later in games. There has not been a single game where Lamar had to throw the team back in the game against the clock.


Right now he is perfect for Baltimore, but that defense is older, Suggs is 36, Weddle is 33, even Jimmy Smith is 30. This year, they might be able to make a run with Lamar. Long term, I have serious, serious doubts about his viability.





Josh Allen -

He is exactly what I thought he would be. He is Cam Newton light. He can win with his arm and his elite athleticism but his accuracy will always be an issue. He needs a great team around him like Cam does.



Josh Rosen-

He is the Tim Couch of the Cardinals. He will be ruined before they are good enough to compete. That team is horrifically bad. Why did they let John Brown walk? Tyron Matheui? Cambell? If you look at their roster aside from Chandler Jones and Peterson....yuck.

Hard to understand what they are doing out in the desert.


Sam Darnold -

He is exactly what he was in college. He will throw some absolute dimes and then throw into an obvious double for an INT. He has the physical talent but he needs to be reigned in and put in a system that can minimize his loose and sloppy play. 15 INT's and 5 fumbles and 57% completion % is not getting it done. If Drew Brees is completing 75% of his passes, you have to be at a MINIMUM 60% in this league.

I dunno, the same things that made me hesitant to want him in the draft are the same reasons I am hesitant after seeing him for a season. Turnovers, he tends to lose the play on scramble drills too often.

He can still be a good one, there is just something I don't like.


Baker Mayfield -

Double edge sword trusting your guys as much as he does. Threw some U...L...G....Y UGLY INT's. Struggles with the zone blitz scheme and trail technique coverage. Houston and Baltimore exposed him a bit dropping out backer/safties in man looks. Had too many fumbles as well (especially early on).


Presnap the kid is head and shoulders above any rookie QB i've ever seen. The level of sophistication in his game in unlike any rookie I have ever seen, the ball fakes, the reading of coverage's post snap, the "feel" in the pocket. He has all the makings of a top 5-10 QB in this league for a long time.

It absolutely changes the discussion, which is exactly why you left it out.

So the same defense was playing with a losing record under Flacco, yet I don’t hear any excuses from you on that.

The QB is the most important position on the field, unless it’s Lamar Jackson. Then it doesn’t matter.

That’s the difference between you and I. I keep the same standard evaluating QBs, and you don’t.