DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cleveland Browns winners and losers from the 2018 season

Overall, I agree, except with the "deliberate" part.

Might be my tin foil conspiracy hat talking, but I there's some animosity stemming from bottlegate.

The whole "if you haven't done it - shut up" crap is the funniest. Have you caught a pass in the flat from an NFL QB? No? Well, you're no longer allowed to criticize someone for dropping a pass.

C'mon. Bottom line WE pay the bills and we are the audience, we have every "right" to complain about whatever we want to. When I see a retired attorney staring at the field, hands on his knees, motionless, eyes fixed on the play, ball breaks the goal line... and he spots the ball at the one... he sucks at his job. End of story.

And complaining about others "whining"? Read this thread alone and tell us who's "whining" bro.

I remember way back in Little League when our coach printed an eye chart on the back of our catcher's jersey, with HEY UMP! at the top.

I have no idea why the calls are getting so bad, but IMO it is definitely a thing.

I think the refs were better before instant replay.

I think they are the same, it's just that the technology now lets us see where their mistakes are.

What I don't understand is how they decide what can and can't be reviewed. The technology is there, use it, take away the "judgement calls". This would take some heat off the referees who get a bad view of the play, or miss something. It might hurt some egos, nut it would go a long way in keeping things honest during a game.

Spiraling out of control ... ....

Ya ... thats what i’m doing ... ...

Everything i said is on point ... ya’all simply don’t know it casue u just don’t know whats going on out on the field or with the rules committee or with the other things that have made the officials job hard as hell ....

U dont see my talking out my butt about cover two ... i don’t understand it so i ask questions as opposed to just whining about it like i actually have a clue ...

In this case ... ignorance truely is bliss ...

Ya ... there still mad at bottlegate ... ...

Forrest gumps mother was a genius ....

Difference between U and me dawg ...

I played football and never dropped a pass ... EVER ... taught my nephews how to catch ...

Last year Fla. taught me about PALMS UP ... why ... cause i asked about catching a football and what he watches for EVEN THOUGH i knew how to do it ...

Played football through HS and been watching since i was in diapers ... seen thousands upon thousands of OL players and plays ... earlier this year i learned more about blocking from Joe T/Vers/Purp and a few others ... EVEN THOUGH when defenders went unblocked i had NO CLUE why some guys could make a block and others can’t ...

U on the other hand look LEARNING IN THE EYE and spit on it ...

*L* all u want ... like i said ... ignorance is bliss ... not a fan of being in a state of bliss when the opportunity to learn presents itself ...

Guess were different in that regard ... to each there own ...

Your knowledge shows in your example ...

- there not retired attorneys .. there active attorneys ...
- dude signaling TD NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER has his hands on his knees ... EVER ...

But thats just another thing u have no clue about when it comes to officiating ...

My cousin played WR for the Detroit Lions... WE would work out together...Eye on the ball..catch with your hands..Dont let the ball hit your pads...

Palms up ... ...

Very cool ... who was your cousin if u dont mind me asking?

Wait...........you played football and NEVER dropped a pass?

Did you only play defense? Were you an offensive lineman?

Heck, I was an All State Tight end and I dropped a pass.

Ya ... i was db ... *L* ...

They threw to TE’s back then ... ...

I had really good soft hands ... ball hit my hands and it wasn’t gonna hit the ground or the street .. *L*

Great ... now we’re gonna go down that rabbit hole ,,, OH VEY ... u need a lawyer to post on here anymore ...

LOL ape men thumping their chests....about when they were in grade school playing football so they must know something.

All you learned in grade school was how to side eye from the girls in your class LOL

I swear ... if you all aren't having a mean girls contest, it's about who can pee the farthest.

That settles it then.

We'll meet up before a game next year in the Burke lot and see who has the fewest drops in 50 passes.

If I win... you're not allowed to whine about refs anymore.

If you win... we'll wake you up from your dream, buy you a beer and remind you that you're not allowed to whine about refs anymore.

My Cousin was Bob Pickard..played in the 70's..was pretty good at Xavier in Ohio..I believe he Played in Detroit in 74..He told me he walked off the field talking with OJ Simpson..And the first hit he had felt like a semi truck hitting him.

He wasn't much of an NFL player..But as a cousin in the NFL it was cool..He always took the time to work out with me because my coaches liked my skills...

His dad.. my Uncle of course was big in the Pro Football Hall of Fame here in Canton...

Artificial turf was new..and the players took shots so they wouldn't get infections from it..

Sorry not to exciting....but was cool for me

Sounds like fun ...

I’m 60 now so some one else will have to throw for me ... *L* ...

Sounds awesome ... thats really cool .... your buds must have been so jealous of u working out with an nfl dude ...

Sounds like a good guy ...

U live in canton?

I tail gate in the Burke lot with Columbus Peen and others..I drop shots all the time ..lol

Yes ..I live about a 5 minute walk to the H.O.F... Same street

Wow .... dang ... didn’t know that ... now i’m Jealous ... *L* ...

The only thing that keeps me from saying it's deliberate is that the chaotic, unpredictable nature of the game on any given play would make it difficult to pick those perfect "screw you" moments.

Personally, I think it's more that many of the refs fell in to the same old view of the Browns that most other teams did over the years. Our opponents didn't need their A game to beat us, the refs didn't need to bring their A game either.

We've always talked about bias. After all, isn't that really what a "home town call" really is? When it comes to QBs being hit over the years, we've freely made the claim that the refs would allow our guys to get hit in ways they'd never allow the likes of Brady to. I'd be curious to see analytics about who was officiating games to see if that is more a product of a across the board bias against poor performing teams like the Browns were OR is it really particular refs paired with particular QBs.

I think that is a possible explanation for the historical aspect. But as far as this years across the League step back in the quality of officiating... it may simply be the most experienced refs bailed for higher paying gigs and the NFL did a piss poor job of grooming refs over the years.

While I don't appreciate Diam's condescending 'tude toward everyone, I do agree with him that I don't think hiring "full time" referees would be of any real benefit. I mean, what does that look like in reality? Ref's watching film 8 hrs a day, every day? It would be a rare individual who could stay mentally stimulated watching that much film over the course of a season.

Without actually knowing the procedures, I'd guess that the NFL should take a look and institute a more pro-active program to groom referees. Look for better accountability standards (there's a difference between a ref being the closest but without the best view making a call that turns out to be wrong, and refs blowing false start and delay of game calls).

I would also venture to guess that some of the problem may be the ref pool experiences a log jam. There's only so many positions. Maybe putting some sort of cap on how long a ref can ref? Try to build in a natural overturn?

This might seem a bit far out, but what do you guys think of this suggestion? Considering that we are technologically sophisticated monkeys, do you guys think there is a way to incorporate an RFID chip or the like within the 'ol pigskin in a manner that doesn't effect it? Seems to me that could be used for more accurate spots.

Yes.
Yes I do.

In fact, I made this point as a prediction more than 3 years ago in a conversation at a Browns bar. I got laughed off the table, but they were Neanderthals anyway. I believe that chipped footballs and laser monitored sidelines/goal lines will be everyday features of the future NFL game (provided it lives long enough).

I got the idea from existing tech. I watched a vid on YouTube (it might have been one of those 'Sports Science' clips.) A chip was sewn into a football to track trajectory, velocity, spin rate, etc. The QB might have been Drew Brees, but I'm going off memory, and I just got home from work, so I'm feeling lazy tonight...

Paul Brown created the Modern Game with his innovations: game film, classroom study, 'messenger' substitutions, followed by in-helmet radio way back back in the 60's. The tech race has been on since then. Slow-motion replay, stop-action replay, multiple camera angles, etc have been staples of network coverage since the 70's-80's. Even now, New York can pause a game in Kansas City, and instantaneously beam raw video data to a ref on the sidelines to help make the correct call. It still ain't perfect, but it's better than what we used to accept as The Best.

Chipped footballs, laser-monitored perimeter boundaries, and goalposts with emitters/sensors (to track/call field goals) are going to find their way into the game, given time. It's a natural extension of what's been happening since the game was invented.

Yep.

Chips in balls/shoes/gear is inevitable.
Some of it will clean up calls that are being discussed on a Browns Fansite in 2019. Some of it will complicate The Game, with no benefit readily discernible. Just like now, you know?

.02

The Chip thing will happen sooner rather than later. We will need chips in the knees and elbow pads of players before it becomes an exact science though. If not we'll still have humans deciding where the ball is when the runner is down regardless of what the chip says.

wow, finally a published article that addressed the terrible officiating all season. Great post, thanks for the share

Next season I hope they let us make the playoffs, should be fun

Lol. Rasta MIA.

2 things have happened simultaneously...

1. replay has improved dramatically, more cameras, better angles, better resolution, slower speeds... we can see infinitely more than we could before replay and thousands of times more than we could in the early days of replay...

and

2. the rules have continued to get more and more complex and nitpicky. Used to be, if you didn't grab a guy by the facemask or get full control of him then pick him up and body slam him after the whistle, it was just a tackle. There was no penalty for hitting too high or too low or while he was in the grasp of another player or if it happened 1/4 of a second after the whistle.. it was a tackle. Or the ever popular, he possessed the catch, started to turn his body, took 1.25 steps, before being hit and separated from the ball... does that constitute a "football move"? There was no such talk of this level of nuance in the rules in the early days of instant replay..

This is why I contend that super-slo-mo cameras are the devil. A pinky gets inadvertently caught in a face-mask for three frames at 100 fps and the penalty is seemingly justified. The ball twitches for 1/100 of a second while still cradled or embraced by WR = no catch. The devil!

Add about 4 more changes and you’ve arrived ...