DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns head coaching search

Based on what Dorsey said... I didn't think he would be. He was respectful of Mike but didn't sound excited about him.

I still think GW and FC plus a new DC and special teams coach.

Maybe, but now it is getting to the point of folly.

If the decision has already been made, then make the decision, I doubt we plan to keep the whole staff together.


I am beginning to get a bit concerned.

As far as I know, the only coaches we have been linked to but have not interviewed are Nick Sirianni, Josh McDaniel, and Mike McCarthy. It seems as though Mccarthy and McDaniel might not even be under consideration, though, at least according to some reports. (and who knows how trustworthy reports are under Dorsey)

I still think that Kitchens is the frontrunner at this point.

Sirianni is the only one. And we have to wait on the Colts to get eliminated now.

I just can't wait for us to commit so 30% of the board will complain, 30% will wait to see what happens 30 percent will be happy. 10% will say I told you so. Lol

I wonder if we make an announcement before then.

Did we ever interview the Chiefs special teams coach? He was reportedly someone Dorsey was really high on.

No Dave Toub.

From the outside, with absolutely nothing to go on, I would have to guess that it's either Kitchens or Campbell.

Freddie is just not ready to be the head coach. Never been a HC, at any level, and only one half season as coordinator. The idea that he would be snatched away to be a HC for another team was absurd.

Now, in a year, or two, or three, he MIGHT be, and he MIGHT be one of those coordinators who makes a good HC, or, he MIGHT be one of those coordinators who is best left at that level.

So, assuming we want to keep Kitchens, what we need, is a short-term HC, someone who is qualified but for some reason, will not be hired by any other team except us. Someone who knows he is damaged goods and the only way to be a HC is to take a short-term deal and agree to step aside when requested.

Someone who the very delay people are complaining about is serving to prove that no one else wants him as HC.

According to CBD, neither McDaniels nor McCarthy are on the schedule.

Agree with what you said, except for the 'short-term HC'. Having a young team who we hope will be together (for the most part) for the next 5+ seasons or so, I feel we need a guy who is going to be here for at least that spell if we are to maintain continuity and grow in cohesiveness...

Williams would step aside for Freddie in a couple years, when he is ready.

Further incentive would be his son taking over at DC.

Any other HC, we lose Freddie to HC somewhere else.

I could see that, in fact it is my best-case scenario...

Why would Williams agree to do that though? And why would we want to changes coaches again in a couple years?

It sounds great, but it doesn't make sense for the coaches themselves.

We have to wait for the Colts to be eliminated to interview Sirianni but we also have to wait for teams to be eliminated before we can hire one of their coaches. We can hire GW, FK, Stefanski or Caldwell now but we can't hire Eberflus, Campbell or Flores because their teams are still in the playoffs.

A, because no one else will hire him to be a head coach. His phone has not rung, once. He has no other option. Every day that goes by proves this more emphatically.

B, because when Freddie is ready, assuming that happens, we will bump him up to HC to prevent his leaving.

Keep Williams jr at DC and Freddie picks his OC replacement. Continuity of excellence is maintained.

This is my thought as well. Same when people talked hiring Arians with Kitchens in waiting. I think you either take your chance on Kitchens now or risk losing him. I also couldn't tell you if he's ready or not to be head coach. I did not interview him. And I'm sure many thought the 30 yr old Mcvay was not ready, but that seems to have turned out alright.

I don't know that we are out of the woods on McDaniels yet. He built a heck of a staff for the Colts. I wonder if we ever chatted about McDaniels during the Eberflus interviews.

with McDaniels out of GB job, I think the likelihood of him here just went up 75%

Could you define what Williams other options might be? "extended interim" HC is the best offer he is going to get. He will take it because nothing else is on the table.

Nobody else but us interviewed Kitchens for HC, either. The entire NFL knows he is not yet ready.

maybe not now, but next year, there certainly will be... That's just my guess.

He’s not even going to get an interview.

Without an interview his % chance of being our next HC is zero
75% of zero is zero
Zero + zero = Zero

Mathematically, you are both correct

This is completely unrealistic and has never happened before.

keep thinking that

just to be clear though, I want nothing to do with McDaniels

I think its going to be between Campbell or Eberflus

This situation has never presented itself before.

We have a good HC that NO ONE will hire. Never happened before.

We have an excellent OC who may very well be hired as a HC, but not for at least one year, likely two or more. We will probably want to keep him.

We need a short-term, temporary HC. One reason for the long process, MIGHT be, to make sure GW KNOWS, for certain, that he will have no other opportunity to become a HC, most especially a place with a QB like Baker.

He either takes a short-term deal or never, ever, gets to be a HC in the NFL again. He can also keep his son at DC and continue to groom him for his own future. Gregg gets to, at least somewhat, redeem himself.

Kitchens gets to prepare for his future role, which he needs time to do, and then gets to take over a team with Baker at QB.

Agreed.

I have been saying for some time, that if you want to retain Kitchens in any capacity for the long term the Browns need to just name him HC.

This utopian concept of hiring Arians or GW and "grooming" Kitchens for the HC role 2-3 years down the road is silly. Either you believe in the guy and will give him time to grow into the role of HC or you don't.

problem is kitchens hasn't had alot of responsibility nor has he had to devise gameplans sans 8 games last year. I think naming him HC would be a mistake and might be more than he can handle and will set us back

Was about to post this.
I agree. I'm thinking we gonna hear rumblings of a hire coming soon.

I do believe in him and want him to grow into the role, but he is just, no way no how, ready RIGHT NOW. No one has interviewed him as HC. He has 8 games as OC. If he said in his interview that he was ready and prepared to take on that role I would not hire him purely for that reason. A man has got to know his limitations. He needs at least one, more likely two, years to be prepared for the increased and totally different level of responsibility involved in being a HC. Which he has never been, at any level. Promoting him to HC now is beyond "silly".

We have an historic, unique, one-of-a-kind opportunity here. We can give him that time to grow, guarantee we keep him, and have a pretty good HC while we wait. Gregg has nowhere else to go as HC because of Bountygate. He is damaged goods. He might get another chance AFTER he coaches here for a year or two, he might not. He has no other choices at this time. His phone has not rung once.

I would prefer no change than to have this as a back up plan...

For me the longer this goes the more I feel that its going to be someone in house

The potential HCs must be pretty stoked about the 60% roster turnover more than anything else.

When is this interview taking place? Not this week. If the Patriots win, not next week.

How do you know that he's not ready to be Head Coach?

People complained that he wasn't ready to call plays and be the offensive coordinator, until he proved he was ready. He has been an NFL assistant coach for 13 years, and has spent a lot of time under a guy, Bruce Arians, who many wanted us to hire. This isn't some guy who is just starting out. He brought discipline to the offensive unit, and he tailored the offense to fit the talent we had. This was his "8 weeks".

What it's going to come down to is this: does he have an NFL Head Coach plan, and can he reasonable be expected to step into the role and run a whole team?

Look at some of the guys we have interviewed. We interviewed the Vikings OC. How many games was he an OC? How many years has Dan Campbell, many peoples' favorite, been a coordinator? I think that capability is more important than years as a coordinator.

Here is a little bit to think about:

Did Freddie Kitchens convince the Browns he’s their next head coach in his interview Monday? | cleveland.com
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/01...head-coach.html

Plenty of NFL coaches have been successful in their first seasons despite little evidence they would be. When the Rams hired Sean McVay in 2017 — the youngest head coach in the NFL at the age of 30 —he hadn’t even called played in his two seasons as Redskins’ coordinator under Jay Gruden from 2014-16. It didn’t stop McVay from going 11-5, winning an NFC West title and being voted AP NFL Coach of the Year.

When the Bears took a leap of faith on Matt Nagy this season, he had only called plays for six games as coordinator under Chiefs coach Andy Reid. Again, it didn’t stop him from going 12-4 this season, and if not for a blocked field goal in Sunday’s 16-15 loss to the Eagles, he’d be facing the Saints in the NFC Divisional round this weekend.

The case for Freddie Kitchens as Browns head coach | cleveland.com
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/01/the-case-for-freddie-kitchens-as-browns-head-coach.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- “Who the hell is ready to be a head coach?”

That’s the question Browns offensive coordinator Freddie Kitchens asked during a December press conference when the prospect of his candidacy for the job came up. He posed the hypothetical after he saw somewhere that he wasn’t ready to be a head coach.

It’s safe to say, he doesn’t agree. Later, in that same press conference, he responded to a question about whether becoming a head coach was a goal.

“Definitely,” he said. “No doubt.”

Kitchens slow rise in the NFL turned meteoric at the end of October. His professional coaching career started in 2006 with the Cowboys under Bill Parcells. He has since worked in various offensive coaching roles with the Cardinals and now the Browns.

He was promoted to offensive coordinator after the Browns fired Hue Jackson and Todd Haley, even though he never called plays in a regular season game. He spent the last eight games of the season making his case.

Kitchens checks a lot of boxes regarding what teams seek in a modern day head coach. He turned 44 in November. He showed a creative knack for playcalling. He built a strong relationship with his young quarterback. He comes from a coaching background that includes working under Parcells and Bruce Arians. He has a history as a quarterbacks coach during Carson Palmer’s first four seasons in Arizona. He even played quarterback at Alabama in the mid-90s.

Present that resume to most Browns fans and they would demand an interview with that candidate. Some might even say just give him the job and call it a search.

The pause many have with Kitchens, though, is that he was the offensive coordinator for all of two months. That shouldn’t matter.

General manager John Dorsey said in his season-ending press conference last week that his new coach would hire his own staff.

“Whoever that head coach will be in the future, I think he has to have the ability to hire his staff,” Dorsey said. “Will we make suggestions? Yeah, that is what all people do.”

He also said this: “I have always said play calling is an art, not a true science. You have to feel the moment. I think Freddie has a good feel for that type of thing.”

Dorsey spent four seasons in Kansas City with Andy Reid. Reid’s rise to head coach is similar to Kitchens’ background. He was a tight ends coach in Green Bay and a quarterbacks coach for two years before the Eagles made him their head coach. While not without his warts, he took the Eagles to a Super Bowl, has established himself as one of the forward-thinking offensive minds in the game today and has the inside track to winning the AFC this season.

Matt Nagy, a Reid protege who likely would have been a candidate were the Browns in the market a year ago, was the Chiefs’ offensive coordinator for a year. He only called plays for a month.

The path to becoming a head coach isn’t set in stone. John DeFilippo left Philadelphia to call plays in Minnesota trying to follow the most logical path. He was fired during the season. Hue Jackson was the offensive coordinator in Cincinnati for two years and in various other stops before that prior to winning three games in just over two seasons with the Browns.

John Harbaugh was a special teams coordinator and defensive backs coach. Sean Payton lost playcalling duties with the Giants before spending three years as a quarterbacks coach and passing game coordinator in Dallas prior to the Saints hiring him. Pete Carroll was a college coach who failed in the NFL before he won a Super Bowl in Seattle.

This job is a gigantic leap for anyone, regardless of background. That goes for Kitchens and every other coordinator or position coach the Browns have interviewed. There are no guarantees, whether you hire a first-timer or a retread. Even Bill Belichick got fired once.

Kitchens did enough during his time here to cause the Browns to deny outside interview requests. If another coach is hired and Kitchens stays on, the reality is that, if he really is this good, he’ll likely be gone a year from now. If Dorsey believes Kitchens could become next year’s hot head coaching candidate, why not buy in now?

Kitchens’ old boss famously cautioned Jackson on Hard Knocks to not live in his fears. Dorsey and the Browns should heed that advice. Just because Kitchens might not fit a mold, just because it might make you a little uncomfortable, doesn’t mean he isn’t the right choice.

Who the hell is really ready to be a head coach, anyway?

I think the opposite.

For me, the longer this goes, the more I feel we are going after someone who is in the playoffs.

We have refused to allow interviews for OC. There have been no calls to interview as HC. If the other guys in position to make such decisions thought he was ready, SOMEBODY would have dialed his number. NO ONE DID.

Might he be? Maybe. The other examples given had far more time at OC than Freddie has. He has one-half of one season above the level of position coach.

Also, Freddie needs time to train or groom the new OC who will replace him, or at least establish a system for the new guy to follow, or else we lose the primary benefit of keeping him in the first place.

What good does Freddie at HC do for us if the new OC can not work as effectively with Baker?

Hence the need for the "extended interim HC", which, unique in NFL history, we have a guy who would probably take the job.