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*L* .. i didnt say that ...

i dish it out and expect it back ... never ever had a problem with that ...

I said ... u had unrealistic expectations EITHER because u were too emotional OR don’t know enough about football and therefore overrated our talent ... at least mock me for what i said not what your pee poor reading comprehension skills think i said ...

HUGE DIFFERENCE ...

And i got no probs being on the recieving end ... I EXPECT IT ... comes with the territory ...

U mocked me ... i’m Good with that ... i didnt whine about it .. I POINTED IT OUT when making another point ... sorry i told the truth while making a point ... i’ll try and avoid the truth when posting to u from now on .. *L* ..

I said u mocked me cause u did ... didnt complain about it ...

Like i care what u think of me ... i hardly ever read u ... feel free to quit reading me ...

We pretty much agree. Like I have tried to say several times before..........I am cautiously optimistic. The last time I was optimistic about the Browns was after the 2007 season.

I agree w/you about beating teams that aren't good and that losing to Oakland and Tampa Bay were really bad losses. I'm not complaining about us beating teams that were trending downwards. Certainly not after having lost so many games the last several years. LOL

I like what Kitchens did as the OC. He was light years ahead of Haley in regards to helping this particular offense. However, I don't know how he will be as a HC. I also think Williams has a better resume than Wilkes. The other guys are question marks in my mind. This could be a great staff. It could be a decent staff. It could be a staff that is going to get railroaded out of town if the team doesn't win this year. I just have no idea what will happen w/them.

I also am not convinced that Baker is a "top 10 qb" or a "franchise qb," or that "he is Super Bowl qb." What I saw last year was encouraging and he exceeded my expectations by a long shot, but we always say it takes 3 years [when young players struggle] to accurately evaluate a qb, but now people are convinced he is already going to be great. It kind of bothers me that he said he "might" workout w/a qb coach this summer. He has some mechanical things he really needs to work on. I think it is unrealistic to expect that he will always receive as much time in the pocket as he did this year. These are not negative comments. Just questions.

I think there are some holes to filled on defense. I also think the roster improved dramatically in one year under Dorsey, but I wouldn't say it is elite.

I'm hopeful. I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm just not certain that everything is going to come up roses.

I just want to post to interject one comment/response to your last post.

Re: Baker being called "great"...

For me, calling Baker "great" (or anything in the same vein) is no more than saying he has shown enough promise to warrant future investment (time, resources, building the offense around him). The talent pool for the QB position is so small. Getting a guy that already is checking some of the boxes (in terms of showing that he can play the position) already puts us ahead of, like, half the league.

I guess this post is more of a clarification... and it goes w/o saying that I only can speak for myself. I'm optimistic regarding our young QB, but I'm not reserving a spot for him in the HoF.

I think I fall somewhere between you and Vers on how I see things.

Before this season the team was putrid. We really weren't beating anyone and I mean anyone. While we were winning games in the second half of the season, they were certainly mediocre teams. Good teams had their way with us. I actually got into it with a poster who claimed how tough our schedule was the second half of the season when they proclaimed it was going to be tough to win games against those teams.

But in life there is usually a natural progression to things. The, "you have to crawl before you walk" philosophy. We certainly learned to crawl well and may have actually taken our first steps as well. And that is a huge step up from where we were.

The question is are we ready to take it to the next level? That's an unknown to all of us.

However, there's reason to believe we can. I think we've found our QB. That gives the entire team a reason to believe. They also have to believe in the coaching staff and the system. From watching the second half of the season it seems they were believing. It's hard to believe that Baker is the only reason for that second half of the season because he was also playing while Hue was here and the results weren't as good. So I have to attribute it to the QB and coaches.

Common sense would dictate to me that there will be improvement next year. Since we actually have some productive players at the skill positions, they are all young and developing. It would seem only logical that many will improve and mature. That they will be more familiar with each other and perform better as a unit.

Yet at the same time there are a lot of moving parts on the coaching staff. I don't see the D scheme changing a lot as they hired a DC with a similar philosophy to Williams. To me, at this juncture, how the team adapts to the new coaching staff and how the new staff is able to help develop that talent will be one of the biggest keys to taking that next step.

Another key I think will be the talent Dorsey brings in to continue to upgrade the roster. Some seem to think we should, and he will make a big splash in the FA market, yet I disagree. I can see the possibility of one big FA signing, but otherwise I see him using a very similar approach to last off season. I see making a splash in the FA market at a time your team is firing on all cylinders and you only need one or two key additions of high quality to cross the finish line. I don't think we're there yet.

So there are still questions moving forward but I can see the path is there to get where we all want to go.

I don't think anybody is ready to put him in the HOF. I do think he is the best QB we have had since we returned.

Maybe that isn't saying a whole lot, but it is what it is.

To be fair, early on the in the season the second half opponent lineup was much more intimidating. Injuries absolutely ravaged the Falcons D, as well as the Bengals.

U make a lot of good points and ask a lot of legite questions bone ... i’m Going to try and answer your questions as best i can ... then i will pose some questions to U ....



We got ran over by the Stilers the last week of the H&H crap show ... talk about dysfunction .. its amazing we won any games under these two bafoons ... I wish we could have played them in week 16 instead of week 8 ...

Just like we were fortunate enough to get the Bungles, Falcons, Panthers and Broncos when they were in a major downward spiral the Stilers were lucky to get us in week 8 ... as were teh Chefs lucky to get us in week 9 ..

I don’t necessarily think we would have beaten those two teams ... but it sure would have been a GREAT GAUGE for how far we came in the last 8 weeks of the season ...



They do have some talent .. How much is debatable ... Mixon is one heck of a RB ... we DOMINATED them ... obviously we got them at a real down time and Jeff Driskell is no Andy Dalton .. i wouldn’t even really count those games they were so injury riddled ..

There going to have an entirely new coaching staff ... entirely new systems ... we have no clue how good the coaches will be or how long it will take them to learn the new systems ... I’m not all that worried about them .. they will bring up the bottom of the division again ... if we ahve to worry about them were $CREWED anyhow ..



Oz is gone ... If Lamar doesn’t become a better passer there DONE ... and its going to be real hard to re-make Lamar as a passer ... IF Lamar does become “good enough” as a passer .. good luck having him hold up through a 16 game schedule taking those hits ... he hardly ever slides or runs it of bounds ...

EVEN IF he can learn to become a good enough passer .. how long will he hold up? ...

And if Bake don’t throw that sideline pass behind VICE GRIPS on the last drive .. were lining up for a game winning FG ... hey .. u never know and we sure were due for our FG kicker to hit a game winner ... *L* ..

- how far behind the ravens are we? ...
- whose going to improve more this off season?

They simply don’t scare me bro ....



They do find a way to overcome problems .. they also find a way to lose to teams they should CRUSH ... I think they lost to two teams down the stretch they should have DEMOLISHED ... i believe they lost to the Faiders in week 15 or 16 ... crap .. they barely beat teh Bungles team WE CRUSHED in week 17 ...

There secondary is a joke .. they were blitzburgh again last year with Watt kicking butt .. they had to mask that HORRIBLE SECONDARY ...

Pitt on paper should be our stiffest competition ... i just don’t think there that good anymore dawg .. u pointed out there 6 pro bowlers this year ... and they still couldn’t MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!!!

And right now things are on the mend with AB ... dudes been a headcase the last two years ... they’ll be forced to make up and things will be hunky dory .. question is ... FOR HOW LONG .. when’s he gonna melt down again? ...

They have some talent .. no doubt ... SO DO WE!!!



I’ve made my points in my earlier post .. i’ll bullet point them ...

- our young talent will have another year under there belt ... Bake, Calloway, Avery, Chubb, Harrison .. oh ya .. WARD ....

- what we accomplished last year we did with a horribly dysfunctional HC/OC relationship over the first half of the year ... look what our O did UNDER FREDDIE when we had ZERO PREP TIME ... we have an entire off season and because Freddie is a new HC we GET EXTRA TIME practice time ...

- our D was PUTRID ... BUT it does have some talent and the talent is at the KEY POSITIONS ... we all ready have:

- great pass rushing DE ..
- shutdown corner ..
- Peppers, Avery and Shobert as guys that can bring pressure from different positions ..

- we have the #17 pick and a BOATLOAD OF CAP SPACE ...

- most importantly .. WE HAVE TALENT!!!

And lets not forget ... we were the Faider game and one of the Bucs, missed FG’s in the Pitt AND NO’s game away from winning the division last year ...

EVEN with ALL the DYSFUNCTION, YOUTH, mid season coaching change and a rookie QB that took no reps with the first team once camp started .....

The GAP was and is now MINIMAL and we’re HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION ...

We weren’t that far off last year ... and who in our division is going to improve as much as us this off season? ....



I wouldn’t expect them to and thats the best part ... we finally have the TEAM to go and TAKE IT FROM THEM ...



IF we had to run the same d out there again next year i would be also .. we can expect a major upgrade up the middle of our run D ... at least one DT and a LBer to help the sieve called our run D ...

We have a lot going for us .. we are moving in a seriously upwards motion ... is there questions .. ABSOLUTELY ... will anything be handed to us ... HECK NO ....

The key question is ... are we good enough to GO TAKE IT ... my answer is a RESOUNDING YES!!!!!

soooo, you were told not to make insults by bein insulted in the same post. . . . typical.

I am not disagreeing with anything you stated, or said - because a lot of it makes sense and is true.

I would say that - there are reasons that Pitt, NE, and so forth are constantly at the top year in and year out. So yes, things change in FA and the Draft, and injuries play apart - but two things hold true in the fact.

1. If you have a QB, you have a shot every year.
2. If your QB is healthy, you have a shot every year.

The rest is secondary.

No one, and I repeat NO ONE thought NE was a SB contender this year (brady is too old, Gronk wants to retire, BB and Brady are fighting, etc). Yet they are here again waiting to get a ring.

I think we got #1 down, so as long as we keep him healthy which KITCHENS shows he can do with his playcalling and gameplans, I think we have a shot.

The Steelers will still have Ben unless he suddenly retires. He looked like he took a step back a couple years ago but he had a decent season in 2018.

It's fun to see the dysfunction in Pittsburgh with the likes of losing Bell and possibly Brown. It's fun to hear Hines Ward blame coaching for the Steelers troubles. It's fun to read about how the culture in Pittsburgh is changing and not for the good. When Ben exits the locker room it's a big party. Aside from Ben, the team is void of any type of leadership. The typical answer is that they'll figure it out because they always do... My hope is that they don't this time. If there's any franchise that deserves to lose, and I don't hate saying it, it's the Steelers.

I don't disagree with your points but I do think one critical ingredient was missed in your points.

Stability within a system. You used the examples of Pitt. and N.England.

Belichick has been coaching N. England since 2000. Tomlin has been coaching the Steelers since 2007.

Having a stable environment with which to teach and develop players allows you to use your personnel in a plug and play manner. It allows the veterans on your team to work with newly acquired players and draft picks to help them ease into a system that's been well established for many years.

That's not the case with teams who hire G.M.s and HC's like people walking through a revolving door. Stability has a great deal to do with success.

Your constant character assassinations of anyone who dares point out anything about Baker that isn't glowing makes it impossible to have a football conversation about him.

Okay tab, I won't talk about him. Have fun.

Are you surprised?

The guy who calls people racists without even knowing them is complaining about character assassination. Huh..go figure.

Let's not forget the obvious.. Players come and go, the GM that can fill holes as they occur, Planned or not, can keep things smooth.. Dorsey looks to have that skill ie, our kicker!

It's almost like the good ones can read tea leaves or something...LOL

Yeah, but we all know what happens if I say something like that.

If you said that now, you'd be a copy cat.....

True, but both those teams both have their QB who has been relatively healthy their entire careers season in and season out.

You wont get the time to establish your system without a QB winning you games.

If I recall correctly, the only times BOTH those teams haven't made the playoffs, their QBs missed time.

If ben didn't go out during that raiders game, i say they win that and make the playoffs this last year.

I am 57 years old sand been a fan since 1969 when I pretended to be Bill Nelson, Paul Warfield or Leroy Kelly in my backyard.

Most years I was always vey optimistic thinking this could be the year. Obviously some years I had more reason, the early 70s,The Kardiac Kids, more legitimately the Bernie 80's.

Even since our return I am usually glad the season is over but by draft time get all excited and think, hey maybe, who knows, if we just had another 2, 3 ,4 5 6 starters etc. Then by week 6 I am normally back down to earth.

Ironically this past off season I had no expectation. Success would not have completely surprised me but I did not expect a winning division record, or 7-8-1 that's for sure.

Now I think that yes, we could have a season with more improvement and maybe see 11-5, but I also could see how we might regress, especially if we can't get over the hump against good teams, and the bad ones steal a few from us.

SO amazingly I could have high hopes with no rational reason rom years of poor performance, and now that there is some possible reason for the high hopes, I don't hold them. Could it be because I knew deep inside that is all I had, was hopes?

On a side note, and for good reason, this draft will not be as exciting as other years just because of draft position.

That seems very young for sand so I'll take that with a grain of salt.

No, I'm not surprised. He's been doing that crap for years. And I saw how he went off on you just last week and you didn't diss Baker either.

I am with you. I am in all the way. It was before the draft. I said before the draft that if Baker was a inch or two taller, there would have been no debate on who was #1.


I am just saying I am not sticking him in the HOF at this point.

Just stop...your derailing thread after thread has grown beyond old. Say what you want to say on the topic...and move on. Stop inciting posters to a conflict.

Look, I made a football post. tab comes flying in here and starts w/his typical character attacks. Just like he did w/Pit last week.

I would love to have an honest conversation about what I see w/Baker, but it's impossible because tab and a couple of other guys go ape-[censored] if you try to be honest.

I could care less if others disagree w/my takes on him or anything else, but it is complete BS to say I can't talk about a current member of the team unless I bow down and kiss the ground he walks on!!!

And I have made it very clear that I think Baker has played beyond my expectations and that I think he has a great shot at being the guy. Somehow, that isn't enough for tab and a couple of others.

This forum has become similar to the Political forum.

The above is nothing but crap from you trying to be the victim. Just stop.



Thank you for making a good post...you should do it more often.




Stop...just stop.



Only when you join in the thread without saying anything about the topic and/or trying to tell others what to do.

I laughed !

Thanks for your wonderful additions of football insight.

You are welcome.