DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum My Dinner With Baker

Two things, Von Miller is almost 30 (30 in March). And I don't think we're getting Von Miller for just a first round pick. Now OBJ, he's 26 through November. And I think we can get him for a lot less than Miller. He's a much bigger headache for Pat Shurmur than Miller is in Denver. I just don't see that Fangio guy wanting to trade him.

I didn't read the article on Von Miller being a possibility to trade. And I didn't read this thread before going to bed tonight. This was just spontaneous (me thinking about Odell with the Browns).

The big issue is the 18 million in dead cap space the Giants would deal with if they trade Odell. I think that would hold up everything. I doubt either guys will be traded. And Antonio Brown, he's going to be 31 this season. I'd love to sign him. But I don't think Pitt will be trading him to us on the cheap


EDIT: But to be clear, if we're just looking toward next couple years, give me Von Miller all day and then some. He'd be awesome to pair with Myles Garrett. I just don't see him going anywhere. The Broncos aren't going to want to tango without some serious compensation. We missed out on that chance with a better option in Khalil Mack earlier this year (although that compensation was pretty high too)

J/C

Last year I would not have wanted to touch OBJ. After seeing baker and kitchens, their demeanors and how they play and lead - I WANT OBJ.

This locker room headed by Baker, preaching what kitchens is teaching, will keep his ego in check.

Von and OBJ may be a pipe dream, but it would make us favorites for the NORTH at LEAST, if not SB contenders out the gate.

Get it done JONNY BOY!!

Comparing vice grips and obj when it comes to being locker room cancers is as ignorant as comparing Bake to Manziel because of there off the field issues ,,,

Its simply not even close to a valid comparisions ...

Its like saying grapes and watermelons are the same cause there both fruits ... its PURE SILLINESS!

Yes, and think of what OBJ can do with getting space constantly.

I am with you 100% on this take. I don't think OBJ is a CANCER, I think he is egotistical a bit, but I also think that EGO is based on him WANTING TO be considered the BEST IN THE LEAGUE. Baker is egotistical, that's what makes his drive and that "chip on the shoulder" we hear about so important. EGO is not a bad thing, if its the right kind of EGO. I think OBJ has the kind that you want on your team.

I wouldn't deduct that (that you are saying Baker is Brady). Fact is, you can compare anyone you want, doesn't mean they will turn out to that guy. Baker does have a lot of traits brady has, doesn't mean I am saying hes going to be Brady.

And I agree with you assessment on the egos being checked with this locker room. I even stated that in my post. Kitchens and Baker - this is their team. Everyone knows that, and I am sure OBJ would be told that coming in. Its our way or the highway.

This team has been so void of top talent - it amazes me the constant complaint from fans at the hint of getting one the best in the league.

Von Miller - hes 30 yes, but the dude is a freak physically. Hes got 4-5 more in his PRIME I bet.

And - if plan goes right, we should be PRIMED for a SUPERBOWL after this season. He would be 32, still ready to go.

Now would be the time to fake a flyer on a guy his age, IMO.

Robinson came here with a rep, Landry had a rep, Perriman had a rep, etc. This GM, this coaching staff, and BAKE can handle guys with a Rep.

I am not concerned about a EGOS or the locker room with the FO and staff we have keeping them in check.

No need to be worried ... King John won’t let CANCERS like OBJ near the team ...

Moot point ... OBJ is going no where ... THANK GOD ...

The future is in the draft.

So Landry was a waste since we didn't draft him, or Robinson, or Perriman, or the assortment of players we picked up via trade or free agency.

The FUTURE is now.

Get the players for Baker to succeed today, while you continue to build for future via FA and the DRAFT.

Don't be mad when him and bake take us to the playoffs next year. FYI, I would argue Dorsey likes guys with an EGO as long as they are about FOOTBALL. He did draft Bake.

It took me a few seconds to get that (hey, I'm gettin' old) but it was pretty funny!

j/c.... I'm finding it funny that I've seen folks say things like "I want a bigger WR at #1 like OBJ", but OBJ is 5' 11".

We don't need to invest that large in the position when we're growing our own and rehabbing other teams' castoff talents.
Look at Kansas City - what big name WR do they have?

They have Sammy Watkins who I'm pretty sure Dorsey signed in 2018 - and he got him at a relatively bargain price - and they have Tyreek Hill, a 5th rounder in 2016. Add in Kelce at TE - and the butter that makes the batter: Mahomes.

Folks - we have all of that, and potentially quite a bit more. We don't have to spend extravagantly to go get some high profile player to get better. We GROW them here at home now. We get solid FA's to fill holes & needs, then we draft well.... we do it the way it's supposed to be done and should have been done for the last 20 years.

Dorsey was with us when Sammy Watkins signed with the Chiefs. Watkins got $30 million guaranteed which is the 7th most among wide receivers. I don't think anyone would say that is a bargain price considering Watkins' production and availability (he has only one 1000 yard season and has played in only 62/80 games).

While the Chiefs got Tyreek Hill in the fifth round, he has developed into a legit #1 receiver. Teams have to game plan around him beating them and he still beats teams consistently. In 2018 he had 1476 yards and 12 TDs.

That's precisely my point regarding Hill - small investment, HUGE payoff. That is the path we're on.

I saw Watkins' cost - massive first year cash (small cap hit), reasonable/moderate cash in 2019 (heavier cap hit) with an out after 2019. For as big of a name as he was, that was reasonable under the current salary cap. If nothing else, though, he's yet another example of why you don't go after big name WR's that require massive commitments.
I didn't realize Dorsey was here already, though.... I can't recall when he came aboard, at all.

The overall point was that was just about the most prolific offense in the league this year, and those are the pieces they did it with. We already equal them in that regard (talent); we don't need to get crazy to hold our own offensively. We need to start reloading.

I think we are close to them in talent, but I don't think we have anyone close to as Tyreek Hill talent wise.



I agree with this under most circumstances. The only way I stray from the above line of thinking is if a transcendent talent is available. I believe OBJ is a transcendent talent (I don't think he's available).

We don't have anyone comparable to Tyreek Hill, but do you think Callaway could become our Tyreek Hill so to speak? To be that deep threat for Baker. I realize he's not as fast as Hill, but can jump to the next level after his rookie campaign?

I think he can be a poor man's Tyreek Hill. Hill's speed, like you said, is unbelievable.

I'd take Von over Beckham for, as you say, the dynamic of having bookends like Von & Myles sounds sweet.... But OBJ would be okay too, Depending on the price of course.

I keep going back to this thought:

Is there anything about our WRs last year that hindered Mayfield's growth or performance?

I think the answer is "No".

Then I think about existing assets and the opportunities to upgrade the WRs. I can't even consider that issue (spending assets on a top WR) without first considering the front 7 and another very-good CB.

JMO

j/c:

I have to disagree w/others who think our talent is equal to or better than the Chiefs. The Chiefs are loaded at the skill positions.

Who the hell said Landry was a waste?? I sure as hell didn't.

Where do you come up with this crap?????????

We don't need prima donnas like OBJ Period!

I'm all for common sense free agency.

If we maintain this trajectory, I see us being able to make that claim. Just not quite yet.

Yeah, we are trending in the right direction.

I dont get it , How could ANYONE not want to get one of the top WRS in the game, IN the prime of his career, for the #17 2019 1stround

That baffles me

I think everyone on this board would take that trade...problem is...the Giants won't.

This.

😂

The issue with your thinking is that you seem to make it out that is so easy to find a T. hill in the 5th round of the draft. They are far and few between. It happens, yes - but not regularly.

I just don't think you can rely on finding #1 guys in rounds 3-7.

If we had that John Dorsey guy that found Hill we might be able to make it easier.

hahaha, nice try.

how many years in the league has Dorsey made picking players, and how many 5th round studs had he drafted?

Hill.

Anyone else?

I'd say the jury is still out on Genard Avery but the early returns seem to be trending in a good way.

That's actually a valid point, but you're also taking a myopic view to try to pursue a point.

MY point was not that a 5th rounder like Tyreek Hill is a dime a dozen and easy to find, but more that they CAN be found, and we're in a position where we're not in the business of making drastically large investments in that position, but we're advanced from that where we are now able to draft and develop players. Maybe it isn't a 5th rounder and is instead a 3rd rounder.... the point is still that we have zero need to drop a gigantic investment - be it free agency or the Draft - in that position group. It is solid and stable as-is, which affords us the opportunity to grow it organically while saving those gigantic investments for other position groups that need the attention a whole lot more.

Thank you for the reply. Much better understanding now of your thoughts than the original post.

Sorry, it read to me that you felt you can just "draft a guy" to be a #1.

I see your point, I would just still contain that a specialized position like WR, the top talent is a HUGE drop off from the next tier of guys. Its not like Rb, where you can get them all over as easily.

It takes a few years for WR usually to develop, and if you can get one that can garnish and BEAT a double team consistently, it just makes everything else so much easier.

I believe we are close, and I feel when you are close, that's when you start looking to make those investments.

Last year I would have agreed, we shouldn't make that investment. But this year and last year and two different animals on where we stand.

Our WRs will have an entire off-season with Baker, and in Freddie's offense. I look for a nice step forward for many of them.

Heck, Callaway might be that guy. Both he and Hill had their draft status tumble due to off the field issues in college.

I think Dorsey has shown he isn't afraid to take guys later in the draft or sign as UFA who have a checkered past.

I firmly believe that there is at least an 80% chance that Callaway *IS* that guy and that both Willies and Ratley are a solid 50/50 bet to at least be a backup to that guy, at the minimum.

All three are big and fast, and all three flashed as rookies.

Big in what way? Callaway measures in at 5’11” at the combine.

Well, that's the same size as OBJ... and Willies and Ratley are 6' 4" and 6' 3" respectively.

And if your comparing him to Tyreek, Calloway is the jolly green giant ... *LOL* ...